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Best AMD to OC to > P4 3.2Ghz performance?

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  • Overclocking
  • Performance
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June 16, 2004 4:17:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I've got simlar posts in other groups, but this is specific to AMD. If I
were looking for the best AMD CPU to OC to out-run a (stock) P4 3.2Ghz 800
by at least 20% what would you recommend? 50% would be great if possible,
but total cost, including whatever cooling system would be needed, should be
very close to the P4 cost. And it would need to be on a board that supported
Gigabit Ethernet (not on the PCI bus) and Serial ATA (Asus P4C800-E Deluxe
meets this requirement, but it's P4). Any suggestions on what I could get
and how far I could clock it safely?

More about : amd 2ghz performance

Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 16, 2004 11:15:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Slacker wrote:
> I've got simlar posts in other groups, but this is specific to AMD. If I
> were looking for the best AMD CPU to OC to out-run a (stock) P4 3.2Ghz 800
> by at least 20% what would you recommend? 50% would be great if possible,

Doing what?

> but total cost, including whatever cooling system would be needed, should
> be very close to the P4 cost. And it would need to be on a board that
> supported Gigabit Ethernet (not on the PCI bus) and Serial ATA (Asus
> P4C800-E Deluxe meets this requirement, but it's P4). Any suggestions on
> what I could get and how far I could clock it safely?


People reckon they've had around 2.6GHz with some of the Mobile Bartons. If
you get a XP-M 2600+ and clock it 13*200 thats what you'd have.

For a socket 7 board with built in Gigabit Ethernet in the chipset:
nForce2 - No
VIA Velocity (KT880) - No (PCI based)
SIS 748 - Not even gigabit

Hmm, doesn't leave you many options...

If you want to go AMD AND have gigabit Ethernet that is not on a PCI bus
then you'll have to go K8:
SIS 756 - GMII or RGMII interface to the 965 southbridge.
Via Velocity (K8T800 Pro) - Nope... PCI based.
nForce3 - Yep, probably one of the best implementations.

With that in mind...
Something like:
£180 - Athlon 64 3200+ 754 1MB Cache
£ 90 - MSI K8N Neo

vs

£190 - Intel P4C 3.2GHz
£120 - Asus P4C800

The AMD works out £40 less, plenty for a bit of cooling. Then you have
yourself a 64bit chip that will stomp on the P4 at stock in most tasks.
Overclocked you should be able to beat it in almost everything.

You should be able to get 2.2GHz out of it easy, that would be equivalent to
the 3400+:
http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1941&p=3

Bear in mind that many rendering, media encoding etc packages are optimised
for Intel hyperthreading which gives Intel a boost.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
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Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 16, 2004 11:15:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:17:53 -0500, Slacker wrote:

> I've got simlar posts in other groups, but this is specific to AMD. If I
> were looking for the best AMD CPU to OC to out-run a (stock) P4 3.2Ghz 800
> by at least 20% what would you recommend? 50% would be great if possible,
> but total cost, including whatever cooling system would be needed, should be
> very close to the P4 cost.

20%! So you're wanting something with a 3900+ rating at the cost of a
$266. Good luck.:-)
An overclocked FX53 939 would probably come close, but the cpu is about
$800.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Related resources
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2004 8:56:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Get an Athlon 64 3200+ at NewEgg for $270.
Better memory bandwidth - 1600mhz FSB (hypertransport)
Weaker multitasking (but do you care?)
Runs cooler
Will run future 64-bit OS
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

I see the Pentium 4 - 3.2ghz is $266.
Slower memory bandwidth - 800mhz FSB
Better multitasking (hyperthreading)
Runs hotter
32-bit OS only (but do you care?)
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2004 9:07:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I re-read your post and I see that my last post was not applicable to your
question. Apologies.

Sure, you could probably get some CPU and some water-cooled system and jack
up an AMD-based machine to that performance level you are looking for BUT:

What is your time worth? Once you spend the ~$270 on the CPU and whatever
amount of money on your special cooling system and your time to install that
system and your time to tweak the BIOS and run benchmarks over and over and
retweak BIOS and hopefully not fry your RAM or CPU... you'll have spent
hundreds more dollars than if you went out and purchased something like
either the Pentium 4 EE or if you want a lower priced solution, I guess the
AMD 64 3500+ and jack it up from 2.2 to 2.4 with stock cooling and see how
stable it runs. I know my 2.2ghz FX-51 runs rock solid at 2.4ghz with stock
cooling and doing nothing to the BIOS other than changing the 11x multiplier
to 12x. And now I hear there are much better motherboards out there (as far
as overclocking options go and even increasing the hypertransport a bit) for
the 64bit CPUs. Would your AMD 64 3500+ at 2.4ghz run the speed you need? I
don't know but hey there are tons of benchmarks out there and hopefully some
come close to giving you an idea of how your software might run...

Good luck! But remember this: I've seen too many friends fry parts and waste
tons of time tweaking some slow-ass chip to levels they could have stock
with a slightly more expensive cpu and saving tons of time; time that is
worth money!

Scotter
June 17, 2004 1:22:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Don't know what I'm doing wrong but with a 3200+ in a MSI K8T Neo FSR my
bosses P4 3.2 gig kicks its arse for a CPU bound program we are developing.
Its a large simulation program thats uses heaps of floating point
calculation and about 600 megs of ram so bandwidth it what it needs and the
P4's got it. :-( I've only managed about a 5% OC before it becomes unstable
:-(( I think thats because of the bus locking stuff

Paul



"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jbguuFvko0mU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Slacker wrote:
> > I've got simlar posts in other groups, but this is specific to AMD. If I
> > were looking for the best AMD CPU to OC to out-run a (stock) P4 3.2Ghz
800
> > by at least 20% what would you recommend? 50% would be great if
possible,
>
> Doing what?
>
> > but total cost, including whatever cooling system would be needed,
should
> > be very close to the P4 cost. And it would need to be on a board that
> > supported Gigabit Ethernet (not on the PCI bus) and Serial ATA (Asus
> > P4C800-E Deluxe meets this requirement, but it's P4). Any suggestions on
> > what I could get and how far I could clock it safely?
>
>
> People reckon they've had around 2.6GHz with some of the Mobile Bartons.
If
> you get a XP-M 2600+ and clock it 13*200 thats what you'd have.
>
> For a socket 7 board with built in Gigabit Ethernet in the chipset:
> nForce2 - No
> VIA Velocity (KT880) - No (PCI based)
> SIS 748 - Not even gigabit
>
> Hmm, doesn't leave you many options...
>
> If you want to go AMD AND have gigabit Ethernet that is not on a PCI bus
> then you'll have to go K8:
> SIS 756 - GMII or RGMII interface to the 965 southbridge.
> Via Velocity (K8T800 Pro) - Nope... PCI based.
> nForce3 - Yep, probably one of the best implementations.
>
> With that in mind...
> Something like:
> £180 - Athlon 64 3200+ 754 1MB Cache
> £ 90 - MSI K8N Neo
>
> vs
>
> £190 - Intel P4C 3.2GHz
> £120 - Asus P4C800
>
> The AMD works out £40 less, plenty for a bit of cooling. Then you have
> yourself a 64bit chip that will stomp on the P4 at stock in most tasks.
> Overclocked you should be able to beat it in almost everything.
>
> You should be able to get 2.2GHz out of it easy, that would be equivalent
to
> the 3400+:
> http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1941&p=3
>
> Bear in mind that many rendering, media encoding etc packages are
optimised
> for Intel hyperthreading which gives Intel a boost.
>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>


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June 17, 2004 4:05:35 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Scotter" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:o v9Ac.653$M96.13@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Get an Athlon 64 3200+ at NewEgg for $270.
> Better memory bandwidth - 1600mhz FSB (hypertransport)

Holy cow. I did not know that. I'll check into that.

> Weaker multitasking (but do you care?)

Not particularly, but I guess that depends on what you mean by "weaker"? :-)
At these speeds, I don't think it'll matter much.

> Runs cooler
> Will run future 64-bit OS

I haven't given this too much thought because I assumed by the time MS ever
gets around to shipping a 64-bit OS and I decide to install it I'll probably
be looking to upgrade again. If I do load Linux, and I may well, it'll be as
a toy really so it doesn't much matter if it's 64-bit or not.
June 17, 2004 4:11:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Scotter" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:KG9Ac.660$M96.185@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I re-read your post and I see that my last post was not applicable to your
> question. Apologies.

Actually it was quite informative. Thanks.

> Sure, you could probably get some CPU and some water-cooled system and
jack
> up an AMD-based machine to that performance level you are looking for BUT:

Uh oh...here it comes! :-)

<snip>

> Would your AMD 64 3500+ at 2.4ghz run the speed you need?

Oh hell yes. They all would really. I'm upgrading from a 500Mhz AMD, I just
don't want to have to upgrade again next year so I'm looking or maximum
value at the high end (as opposed to maximum value period).

> Good luck! But remember this: I've seen too many friends fry parts and
waste
> tons of time tweaking some slow-ass chip to levels they could have stock
> with a slightly more expensive cpu and saving tons of time; time that is
> worth money!

I'm pretty close to agreeing (that was actually my original position). I'll
have to check out that AMD 64 you mentioned earlier, so it'll probably be
between that and a Prescott. Thanks for the info.
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2004 6:49:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Paul wrote:
[...]
> Don't know what I'm doing wrong but with a 3200+ in a MSI K8T Neo FSR
> my bosses P4 3.2 gig kicks its arse for a CPU bound program we are
> developing. Its a large simulation program thats uses heaps of
> floating point calculation and about 600 megs of ram so bandwidth it
> what it needs and the P4's got it. :-(

That's memory bandwidth bound, not CPU bound :)  There's pretty much only two
cases where the P4 does noticably better than a single-channel K7/8:
1) Only relatively trivial computations need to be done for each floating
point number. For example, throw a sine or cosine into the mix and the P4
will get demolished by the K7/8 in most cases. Media encoding falls into
this category, as do things such as progressive relaxation style
computations.
2) Assuming #1 doesn't apply, then the program probably makes poor or
unusual use of memory bandwidth. There's lots of things that can cause this.
Bad or excessive data padding, bad alignment causing cache thrashing,
unusual data access patterns. For example, reading 64 bytes, skipping 64
bytes, reading 64 bytes, etc etc, then going back and reading each of the
bits that was missed. After the first lot, the P4 would have everything
cached, and would scream through the second lot. The K7/8 would still have
to pull the whole second lot from memory. Because the P4 can retreive a 128
byte cacheline in the time it takes the K7/8 to get a single 64-byte
cacheline, it's quite difficult to have an access pattern that disadvantages
the P4. Usually these situations can be fixed by consideration of the data
structures to get a better access pattern, which often benefits both
processors.

Having code optimised for the particular processors obviously swings the
better/worse position around a bit.

> I've only managed about a 5%
> OC before it becomes unstable :-(( I think thats because of the
> bus locking stuff

I would have expected a bit more than 5% ... most PCI/AGP stuff is OK up to
8% or 10% increases, but I've never dealt with an A64 system so I don't know
the capability of the northbridges/southbridges which tend to factor into it
a lot as well.

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more :) 
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 17, 2004 8:24:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jbguuFvko0mU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Slacker wrote:
> > I've got simlar posts in other groups, but this is specific to AMD. If I
> > were looking for the best AMD CPU to OC to out-run a (stock) P4 3.2Ghz
800
> > by at least 20% what would you recommend? 50% would be great if
possible,
>
> Doing what?
>
> > but total cost, including whatever cooling system would be needed,
should
> > be very close to the P4 cost. And it would need to be on a board that
> > supported Gigabit Ethernet (not on the PCI bus) and Serial ATA (Asus
> > P4C800-E Deluxe meets this requirement, but it's P4). Any suggestions on
> > what I could get and how far I could clock it safely?
>
>
> People reckon they've had around 2.6GHz with some of the Mobile Bartons.
If
> you get a XP-M 2600+ and clock it 13*200 thats what you'd have.
>
> For a socket 7 board with built in Gigabit Ethernet in the chipset:
> nForce2 - No
> VIA Velocity (KT880) - No (PCI based)
> SIS 748 - Not even gigabit
>
> Hmm, doesn't leave you many options...
>
> If you want to go AMD AND have gigabit Ethernet that is not on a PCI bus
> then you'll have to go K8:
> SIS 756 - GMII or RGMII interface to the 965 southbridge.
> Via Velocity (K8T800 Pro) - Nope... PCI based.
> nForce3 - Yep, probably one of the best implementations.
>
> With that in mind...
> Something like:
> £180 - Athlon 64 3200+ 754 1MB Cache
> £ 90 - MSI K8N Neo
>
> vs
>
> £190 - Intel P4C 3.2GHz
> £120 - Asus P4C800
>
> The AMD works out £40 less, plenty for a bit of cooling. Then you have
> yourself a 64bit chip that will stomp on the P4 at stock in most tasks.
> Overclocked you should be able to beat it in almost everything.
>
> You should be able to get 2.2GHz out of it easy, that would be equivalent
to
> the 3400+:
> http://www.anandtech.com/cpu/showdoc.html?i=1941&p=3
>
> Bear in mind that many rendering, media encoding etc packages are
optimised
> for Intel hyperthreading which gives Intel a boost.
>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>
The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.
It listed my CPU temp so high, the thing would be nothing but a piece of
glass
@ those temps, and I cant seem to find a set-up that works right.
We both have the same board, huh? So I wonder why it don't work?
Denny. :-)
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2004 3:49:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
>>
> The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.

Are you referring to MBM5?

Do you not have the -E deluxe?

Yeah, I don't think it works with that one, Asus changed the monitoring chip
or something.

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2004 3:49:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jeldpF11a4fhU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
> >>
> > The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.
>
> Are you referring to MBM5?
>
> Do you not have the -E deluxe?

Oops, maybe that's why, I don't have the Deluxe Edition..


> Yeah, I don't think it works with that one, Asus changed the monitoring
chip
> or something.
>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 18, 2004 11:52:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
> "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:2jeldpF11a4fhU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
>>>>
>>> The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.
>>
>> Are you referring to MBM5?
>>
>> Do you not have the -E deluxe?
>
> Oops, maybe that's why, I don't have the Deluxe Edition..

Then MBM5 should work fine.

Be sure to configure the sensors the correct way round for Rev 2.0 or <2.0

Ben
--
A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
June 19, 2004 5:46:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Jun 2004 19:52:05 +0100, "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
>> "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:2jeldpF11a4fhU1@uni-berlin.de...
>>> Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
>>>>>
>>>> The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.
>>>
>>> Are you referring to MBM5?
>>>
>>> Do you not have the -E deluxe?
>>
>> Oops, maybe that's why, I don't have the Deluxe Edition..
>
>Then MBM5 should work fine.
>
>Be sure to configure the sensors the correct way round for Rev 2.0 or <2.0
>
>Ben

..ini files for MBM5 and A7N8X...

A7N8X Rev. 1.06 and 2.0 Boards
http://members.cox.net/nerbil/A7N8X/MBM%20Settings%20-%...

A7N8X Rev. 1.0, 1.02, 1.03, and 1.04 Boards
http://members.cox.net/nerbil/A7N8X/MBM%20Settings%20-%...
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
June 21, 2004 3:38:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jgrtjF11du6fU1@uni-berlin.de...
> Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
> > "Ben Pope" <spam@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:2jeldpF11a4fhU1@uni-berlin.de...
> >> Dennis E Strausser Jr wrote:
> >>>>
> >>> The temp Monitor on your page Stinks.
> >>
> >> Are you referring to MBM5?
> >>
> >> Do you not have the -E deluxe?
> >
> > Oops, maybe that's why, I don't have the Deluxe Edition..
>
> Then MBM5 should work fine.
>
> Be sure to configure the sensors the correct way round for Rev 2.0 or <2.0

hm, that just makes for more questions, cause that's what I did do.
and it read a temp of something like 259C
Athlons can run @ temps much higher then that of an Intel, or @ least most
of them.
But @ this temp, it would turn to glass before even burning up first.
Denny. :-)

>
> Ben
> --
> A7N8X FAQ: www.ben.pope.name/a7n8x_faq.html
> Questions by email will likely be ignored, please use the newsgroups.
> I'm not just a number. To many, I'm known as a String...
>
>
June 21, 2004 7:07:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Back to the original topic (sorry)... I'm using the 2600m on a Abit
NF7 board... plenty of room for overclocking, the only thing you'd
have to worry about is the gigabit nic. It does NOT support that.
The NF7-s has better features, inclduing some amazing on-baord
audio... You're looking at under $160 for the NF7 and the 2600m and
should easily reach 2.6ghz (I keep mine at 2.4 until I upgrade my
cooler-using an ALK-800 atm)... This set-up EASILY outgames my 'old'
P4 Northwood gig which now has been relegated to media machine.

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