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Help picking a decent fan for Athlon XP 3200+

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Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 3:27:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out. I
do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.

At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.

I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 11:11:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:27:27 -0700, Leo Violette wrote:

> I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
> why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
> AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out. I
> do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.
>
> At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.
>
> I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
> that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?

Two things. First, take the rear exhaust fan to the lower front and make
it an intake fan. Be sure and clear away any case material that would
obstruct airflow. Then replace the lousy stock AMD cooler with a TR2-M1
(or M3 if you don't like leds). Done right, assuming a reasonable ambient
room temp of 25C, you should see case temps no more than 32C and CPU temps
consideraly less than you have now. I'd guess around 40C idle and under
60C under full load.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 11:11:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Thank you very much for the advice. I will follow them and hopefully report
something positive in a few days.
"Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.26.07.13.44.744189@TAKEOUTverizon.net...
> On Mon, 25 Oct 2004 23:27:27 -0700, Leo Violette wrote:
>
>> I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
>> why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
>> AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out.
>> I
>> do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.
>>
>> At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.
>>
>> I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
>> that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?
>
> Two things. First, take the rear exhaust fan to the lower front and make
> it an intake fan. Be sure and clear away any case material that would
> obstruct airflow. Then replace the lousy stock AMD cooler with a TR2-M1
> (or M3 if you don't like leds). Done right, assuming a reasonable ambient
> room temp of 25C, you should see case temps no more than 32C and CPU temps
> consideraly less than you have now. I'd guess around 40C idle and under
> 60C under full load.
>
> --
> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Related resources
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 12:37:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
> why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
> AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out. I
> do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.
>
> At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.
>
> I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
> that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?

Try getting better thermal conductivity. I'd bet that removing the heat
sink, cleaning it, and properly applying some thermal compound would drop
your max temps by at least 15-20 C.

steve
October 26, 2004 5:01:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Wes Newell <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in
news:p an.2004.10.26.07.13.44.744189@TAKEOUTverizon.net:

> TR2-M1 (or M3 if you don't like leds). Done right, assuming a
> reasonable ambient room temp of 25C, you should see case temps no more
> than 32C and CPU temps consideraly less than you have now. I'd guess
> around 40C idle and under 60C under full load.
>

I've always been a tad confused by the temperatures cited here and in
cooler reviews. My temperatures are directly related to the ambient
temperature of the room. When it's hot in the room, the computer runs much
hotter, and vice versa.

Would it be fair to say that the case and cpu temp difference should be
around 6 - 8C? (or less optimally)

And if this is a good general rule, what should either the case or cpu
temperature difference be over ambient?

To me if all the reviews used something along those lines instead of
straight degrees it would be far more accurate, as room temperature could
vary 10C or more.

Unk
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 5:01:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> I've always been a tad confused by the temperatures cited here and in
> cooler reviews. My temperatures are directly related to the ambient
> temperature of the room. When it's hot in the room, the computer runs
much
> hotter, and vice versa.

True. Good reviews will either give you the rise above ambient, or
something like the degrees rise per watt of heat. That lets you get rid of
the ambient temperature somewhat.

> Would it be fair to say that the case and cpu temp difference should be
> around 6 - 8C? (or less optimally)

That depends entirely on your setup and whether you're talking about idle
or loaded temps, but that sounds pretty low. If you're assuming that your
CPU is running around 40 C, and that your case is relatively close to
ambient, ambient will (for most people) fall at less than 30C, usually
closer to 20-24 C. That means a temp difference between case and CPU of
15-20 C under load.

Putting some real-world numbers to it, my XP-M at 2.3 GHz is currently
running 29 C with SETI keeping it warm, but the case temperature is 19 C -
it's a bit chilly in the room. With SETI turned off, the temp drops to 25
C, putting it at 6 C above ambient, but (IMHO) testing temps without load
doesn't give you a very reliable number.

Of course, if you're reporting using the thermistor on the motherboard
instead of an on-die sensor, then you've got enough other factors in the
equation that it becomes much more difficult to accurately figure out what's
going on.

steve
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 9:00:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:01:37 +0000, Unk wrote:

> I've always been a tad confused by the temperatures cited here and in
> cooler reviews. My temperatures are directly related to the ambient
> temperature of the room. When it's hot in the room, the computer runs much
> hotter, and vice versa.
>
That's a fact.

> Would it be fair to say that the case and cpu temp difference should be
> around 6 - 8C? (or less optimally)
>
I'm sure you'll find different opinions on this, and maybe with good
reason. It all depends on where the MB (case) temp sensor is located on
the MB and the if the outside airflow into the case blows directly on it
or not. I got one board that the case temps actuall go up on when I remove
the side cover because of this so like the CPU temp, it's really kinda
relative too, but I say within 5 or 6C is good and over 10C is bad just to
give someone a starting point.

> And if this is a good general rule, what should either the case or cpu
> temperature difference be over ambient?
>
Again this will depend on how the cpu temp is taken but in general, I'd
say no more than about 25C. With an ambient room temp of 26C, here's my
current A64 system values, which I consider excellent.

[wes@wes2 wes]$ sensors
it87-isa-0290
Adapter: ISA adapter
VCore 1: +1.28 V (min = +1.12 V, max = +1.79 V)
VCore 2: +1.52 V (min = +1.41 V, max = +1.70 V)
+3.3V: +3.25 V (min = +2.98 V, max = +3.63 V)
+5V: +4.97 V (min = +4.49 V, max = +5.51 V)
+12V: +11.84 V (min = +10.82 V, max = +13.18 V)
-12V: -11.40 V (min = -10.83 V, max = -13.19 V)
-5V: -4.97 V (min = -4.54 V, max = -5.47 V)
Stdby: +5.03 V (min = +4.49 V, max = +5.51 V)
VBat: +3.15 V
fan1: 2343 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
fan2: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
fan3: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
CPU Temp: +32°C (low = +15°C, high = +55°C) sensor = diode
M/B Temp: +28°C (low = +15°C, high = +40°C) sensor = thermistor

And they should be since I'm only running the cpu at 800MHz at 1.3v: At
1.4v and 1800MHZ, the cpu temp goes up about 1C, and at the rated speed of
2000MHz and 1.5v, it goes up 1C more. No big deal.

> To me if all the reviews used something along those lines instead of
> straight degrees it would be far more accurate, as room temperature
> could vary 10C or more.
>
Yep. Without the base room temp as a reference, all the rest is almost
meaningless. Of course when someone says anything over 60C for a CPU temp,
it's likely too high. Most people probably don't have room temps over 30C
(86F).

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
October 26, 2004 9:20:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Steve Wolfe" <unt@codon.com> wrote in message
news:2u757gF279gujU1@uni-berlin.de...

> Putting some real-world numbers to it, my XP-M at 2.3 GHz is currently
> running 29 C with SETI keeping it warm, but the case temperature is 19 C -
> it's a bit chilly in the room. With SETI turned off, the temp drops to 25
> C, putting it at 6 C above ambient, but (IMHO) testing temps without load
> doesn't give you a very reliable number.

Are you running a water block? If not, then I think your temperature
sensors are deceiving you. Which is not unusual, since the accuracy of the
temperature calibration on motherboards (and in particular, comparing
different bios versions) is quite frankly hilariously bad.

Assuming your CPU is consuming say 80w running seti (which would be about
right considering its running at 2300MHz), then a 10C temperature delta
means 0.125C/W. There's no heatsink/fan combo on the planet that can do
that. About the best you can get is a Thermalright SLK900 with a loud fan.
That will get you around 0.22C/W. 0.3C/W or higher is more typical.

Your load temp is mis-reading by around 10 - 15C and your real CPU temps are
in fact around 40C or more. (Assuming you are not using water?)

Chip
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 26, 2004 9:20:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> > Putting some real-world numbers to it, my XP-M at 2.3 GHz is currently
> > running 29 C with SETI keeping it warm, but the case temperature is 19
C -
> > it's a bit chilly in the room. With SETI turned off, the temp drops to
25
> > C, putting it at 6 C above ambient, but (IMHO) testing temps without
load
> > doesn't give you a very reliable number.
>
> Are you running a water block? If not, then I think your temperature
> sensors are deceiving you. Which is not unusual, since the accuracy of
the
> temperature calibration on motherboards (and in particular, comparing
> different bios versions) is quite frankly hilariously bad.

Nope, no water. You're right, the temperature can't be right - which was
exactly my point about not being able to rely on your thermistors if they're
not on the CPU die itself. And the other point was that a rise of only 6-8
C over ambient wasn't realistic if there was any load. : )

> Your load temp is mis-reading by around 10 - 15C and your real CPU temps
are
> in fact around 40C or more. (Assuming you are not using water?)

That was on a pretty chilly morning, and the machine had only been running
for ~10 minutes. Typically my CPU temps are 41-44, and that's still only
what's reported by the motherboard's sensor.

steve
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 27, 2004 5:53:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Sounds good. I'll try that. Thanks.
"Steve Wolfe" <unt@codon.com> wrote in message
news:2u75h9F26tmkhU1@uni-berlin.de...
>> I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
>> why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
>> AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out.
>> I
>> do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.
>>
>> At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.
>>
>> I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
>> that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?
>
> Try getting better thermal conductivity. I'd bet that removing the heat
> sink, cleaning it, and properly applying some thermal compound would drop
> your max temps by at least 15-20 C.
>
> steve
>
>
October 27, 2004 7:27:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Wes I agree, I live in the southwest and when the outside temperature
reaches 108°F room temperatures can very easily reach 86°F. The HVAC unit
will just not keep up. A heatsink with a 0.6 C/W will create a very
unstable system. In this part of the country server room air control
systems are big business.

I just don't trust motherboard cpu thermal sensors and I try to keep a 20°C
margin. If max cpu temperature is 90°C I subtract 20°C which yields 70°C
and then subtract 10°C for errors in sensor. This gives me a max shutdown
temperature of 60°C. The reason that I do this is to protect and stabilize
the cpu. No other reason except for the large changes in ambient room
temperature year round. I have done this for years and have had no problem
with heat.

The only time that I have not followed the calculation was with my sons
computer and we had to change out the stock AL heatsink and add some better
case fan because when summer hit the computer started to give him heat
related problems. The onboard cpu sensor was reading >60°C under load no
overclocking. After adding better case fans and a copper core heatsink the
onboard cpu sensor dropped to around 45°C load and no more heat related
problems. Around here you really need to keep the case as close to room
temperature as possible.

Excellent post!!

"Wes Newell" <w.newell@TAKEOUTverizon.net> wrote in message
news:p an.2004.10.26.17.03.09.703189@TAKEOUTverizon.net...
> On Tue, 26 Oct 2004 13:01:37 +0000, Unk wrote:
>
>> I've always been a tad confused by the temperatures cited here and in
>> cooler reviews. My temperatures are directly related to the ambient
>> temperature of the room. When it's hot in the room, the computer runs
>> much
>> hotter, and vice versa.
>>
> That's a fact.
>
>> Would it be fair to say that the case and cpu temp difference should be
>> around 6 - 8C? (or less optimally)
>>
> I'm sure you'll find different opinions on this, and maybe with good
> reason. It all depends on where the MB (case) temp sensor is located on
> the MB and the if the outside airflow into the case blows directly on it
> or not. I got one board that the case temps actuall go up on when I remove
> the side cover because of this so like the CPU temp, it's really kinda
> relative too, but I say within 5 or 6C is good and over 10C is bad just to
> give someone a starting point.
>
>> And if this is a good general rule, what should either the case or cpu
>> temperature difference be over ambient?
>>
> Again this will depend on how the cpu temp is taken but in general, I'd
> say no more than about 25C. With an ambient room temp of 26C, here's my
> current A64 system values, which I consider excellent.
>
> [wes@wes2 wes]$ sensors
> it87-isa-0290
> Adapter: ISA adapter
> VCore 1: +1.28 V (min = +1.12 V, max = +1.79 V)
> VCore 2: +1.52 V (min = +1.41 V, max = +1.70 V)
> +3.3V: +3.25 V (min = +2.98 V, max = +3.63 V)
> +5V: +4.97 V (min = +4.49 V, max = +5.51 V)
> +12V: +11.84 V (min = +10.82 V, max = +13.18 V)
> -12V: -11.40 V (min = -10.83 V, max = -13.19 V)
> -5V: -4.97 V (min = -4.54 V, max = -5.47 V)
> Stdby: +5.03 V (min = +4.49 V, max = +5.51 V)
> VBat: +3.15 V
> fan1: 2343 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
> fan2: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
> fan3: 0 RPM (min = 0 RPM, div = 8)
> CPU Temp: +32°C (low = +15°C, high = +55°C) sensor = diode
> M/B Temp: +28°C (low = +15°C, high = +40°C) sensor = thermistor
>
> And they should be since I'm only running the cpu at 800MHz at 1.3v: At
> 1.4v and 1800MHZ, the cpu temp goes up about 1C, and at the rated speed of
> 2000MHz and 1.5v, it goes up 1C more. No big deal.
>
>> To me if all the reviews used something along those lines instead of
>> straight degrees it would be far more accurate, as room temperature
>> could vary 10C or more.
>>
> Yep. Without the base room temp as a reference, all the rest is almost
> meaningless. Of course when someone says anything over 60C for a CPU temp,
> it's likely too high. Most people probably don't have room temps over 30C
> (86F).
>
> --
> Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
> http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
October 27, 2004 4:31:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Leo Violette" <nineballer@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:lZidnYWxvdzNc-DcRVn-rA@comcast.com...
> I have an Athlon XP 3200+. It's running idle at aroun 66C. Don't ask me
> why, I don't know. I have 3 fans in the system. One on the CPU (a stock
> AMD Certified fan), one on the PS and one on the back to force air out. I
> do have dual 120GB Serial ATA drives that might contribute.
>
> At any rate, if I stress it with a 3D game, it sometimes hits 80C.
>
> I'm not over-clocking. What do you recommend for a reasonably priced fan
> that might get my CPU down to more acceptable temperatures?

First off, Motherboards apparently differ in how they report tempertures. A
friend just referred me to a site (don't remember the URL at the moment)
where they discussed the difference between temperature readouts on Asus and
Abit boards. The Abit tempertures were significantly higher with identical
components, but considered "more accurate". My Asus board apparently takes
the CPU temp from the socket, as opposed to a diode embedded in the CPU.
And this Athlon XP2800 machine has been known to freeze at about 62-64 as
measured by Asus Probe. To add to the confusion, Motherboard Monitor, using
the same socket sensor on my MB, records temperatures anywhere from 4-8
degrees lower! My assumption is that the Asus temperatures are more
reliable.

After playing around with two lower cost solutions, I eventually moved to a
Thermaltake Volcano 12+, with a massive copper heatsink and powerful speed
adjustable fan. I am now able to do almost anything with this PC with no
heat issues, and the fan running at a relatively quiet 4,000 rpm. If I'm
doing something especially intense, I can always gun the fan up to full
speed of 5,600 (it's loud). And once room temperatures drop, and am just
doing more routine computer activities, can lower the fan speed to an
extremely quiet 2,500 rpm or so.

Matt
> >
!