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Water Cooled Systems

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November 11, 2004 12:22:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Could anyone please tell the reliability of the water cooled systems? Have
you had any major problems with the different systems? Do they work well
with Dell systems? Anything will really help. We are currently searching
for one and don't have any real experience with them.

Thanks,
Jeff

More about : water cooled systems

November 11, 2004 4:43:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:22:03 GMT, Jeff <jdiaz@p1fs.com> wrote:

> Could anyone please tell the reliability of the water cooled systems?
> Have
> you had any major problems with the different systems? Do they work well
> with Dell systems? Anything will really help. We are currently
> searching
> for one and don't have any real experience with them.
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff
>
>

If you're a bit handy, you can easy build one youreself as I did.
If you're intrested, mail me again ( mine costed about 20 US$)

Bonobo

--
DutchDareDevil
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
November 11, 2004 10:09:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Could you email me the basics of it. I don't really need it, but I
really enjoy building stuff like that. It's my main hobby... Just ask my
wife, I wired the blender to the computer, so I can mince, puree, and
liquify right from my desktop!! Damn rainy day projects LOL!!
Thanks!
Mail to m dot m dot tavares at sympatico dot ca

Bonobo wrote:
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:22:03 GMT, Jeff <jdiaz@p1fs.com> wrote:
>
>> Could anyone please tell the reliability of the water cooled
>> systems? Have
>> you had any major problems with the different systems? Do they work well
>> with Dell systems? Anything will really help. We are currently
>> searching
>> for one and don't have any real experience with them.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Jeff
>>
>>
>
> If you're a bit handy, you can easy build one youreself as I did.
> If you're intrested, mail me again ( mine costed about 20 US$)
>
> Bonobo
>
Related resources
November 12, 2004 2:16:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

That's the spirit, here's another recipy for a rainy weekend..

Ingredients:

1) fishtank pump (I bought one from Conrad.nl)
1) peace of filter stuff
1) big glas jar from pickels??
2) mtrs hose plus connection screws?
1) nice peace of used copper from the recycling belt (old electrical
highvoltage bar..)
1) from the car demolition dump take out an interior-heating waterblock
(search for oldest car they used brass or copper)
1) only little peace of copperplate ( leftover from a industry company)
1) about one liter enginecooling fluid.
1) small peace of copper/brass pipe o7mm??

To do:
-saw the right size that will fit on your CPU from the copper bar.
-drill a large size diameter "hole" right in the center BUT NOT TROUGH !!!
YUST DEEP ENOUGH
-drill a lane of medium "hole's" yust deep enough to transport the most
fluid, verry close to eachother to one and of the copperblock. THIS IS THE
INLET SIDE
-from the center go 2 ways out:the left side from center, ZIGZAG for the
longes lane !!
-than a lane to the rightside, same way, so you have 2 channels who will
meet together at the outside side of the bar(in one medium circle)
take away the copper between the drills(sounds easy but it is a %#$@#&%*
job.
solder (with flame from you gas stove??) two 3cm pipes on inlet/outlet
and the coperplate cover in one action.
Put copperblock on flat surface with "sandpaper??" and make it as flat as
possible using using different size sandstructure.
Check if its realy realy leak-free. Make hose holes in cpubox and fit
hose's.
Put pomp in classjar and close fluid circuit with interior radiator.
Circuit: from pomp to cpu-block to radiator(horizontal placed) to top of
jar. Top of jar must!! be little obove radiator, cpu block must be lowest
part.
Fill with fluid and start pump TOP UP WHEN POMP STARTS!!!
Meanwhile, rotate kopperblock onand on/left/right etc until all air is out
of water,
THAN AND ONLY THAN connect it tight! on the cpu with two selfmade "strips"
From know on the temp from my 1800+ HOT HEADED CPU!! and overclocked!!!
temperatuur stays at 45C.
Even when I load it to max and for some hours it only raises 2C!!! (for
11 mounths now 18hours a day)
For security: put cpu temp swith-off in bios only few grades C
higher(mine switch-off is at 50C)
(also connected 2nd block for my Graphics card parallel because it went
above 70C when playing awsome!! Battlefield 1942 game. this block stays at
30C and raise 2C under full Battlefield load)

Hope you will understand my "englisch" and have a lot of fun!!

Extra expensive luxery option: little multipurpose/voltage transformer and
a fan(because of transformer only runs verry slow and you won't hear
fan!!), and some cardboard for a chimny to place fan on. CPU temperature
drops about 10C !!!



On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 19:09:02 -0500, Browser Joe <i.dont@think.so> wrote:

> Could you email me the basics of it. I don't really need it, but I
> really enjoy building stuff like that. It's my main hobby... Just ask my
> wife, I wired the blender to the computer, so I can mince, puree, and
> liquify right from my desktop!! Damn rainy day projects LOL!!
> Thanks!
> Mail to m dot m dot tavares at sympatico dot ca
>
> Bonobo wrote:
>> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004 21:22:03 GMT, Jeff <jdiaz@p1fs.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could anyone please tell the reliability of the water cooled
>>> systems? Have
>>> you had any major problems with the different systems? Do they work
>>> well
>>> with Dell systems? Anything will really help. We are currently
>>> searching
>>> for one and don't have any real experience with them.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Jeff
>>>
>>>
>> If you're a bit handy, you can easy build one youreself as I did.
>> If you're intrested, mail me again ( mine costed about 20 US$)
>> Bonobo
>>



--
DutchDareDevil
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
November 13, 2004 12:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Water wetter reduces surface tension (surfactant), whilst having
anti-corrosion additives and such I recall it isn't that great at stopping
green things growing in the cooling system. This could result in the
spread of bugs to the machine itself :-)

More seriously:
o Water cooling on a Dell is pointless as indicated
o Water cooling has a use if several machines re heat & noise relocation

Notice I say heat & noise relocation - it just moves it somewhere else.
o There are quiet air movement solutions for use within PCs
o A Dell has a reasonably good thermal system design from the factory

Some mid-range Dells use a cheaper JAC/JMC fan solution, better
higher-end Dells use quieter NMB fan solutions. The problem stems
partly from the fan quality, and secondly the fan specification chosen.
o The JAC/JMC solutions can be extremely high airflow
---- the temp v speed curve isn't adjusted to the fan their integrate
---- with the result that the machine in high ambient can be very noisy
---- a similar problem exists with some Apple G4s & other machines
o The NMB solution is actually of lower airflow & quieter bearings
---- the temp v speed curve is better suited to the fan they use
---- with the result that the machine in similar ambient is quieter

If you scream at Dell loud enough they should offer the NMB fan.

Water cooling does have some valid applications:
o If you have several PCs in a room, the heat input is very considerable
---- that is quite irrespective of the noise a number may make
o For 10x 1U Dual-CPU PCs it isn't inconceivable to suffer 3.5kW+
---- in a 28-33oC summer, even before room solar-gain, that is ugly
o Relocating that heat (& to some extent noise) is an ideal solution
---- colleague required just that for a 16x 1U solution at >5kW heat

Water cooling for overclocking has benefits - having displaced peltier
solutions in as much that it doesn't double the thermal load to remove.
You can use very large fans with modern heatsinks - eg, 120mm on a
CPU isn't impossible (and with Prescott it can be useful :-) so the use
of large fans with radiators is offset somewhat. That said, we still have
graphics card thermal output growth outpacing CPUs quite notably.

Present quiet graphics card solutions aren't that well thought out - the
space is limited, and many cards use low-profile fans which tend to
recirculate their own now heated air & so reduce cooling efficiency.
o Most CPU coolers can recirculate 40-70% of their own air
o Graphics card coolers can recirculate 60-80% of their own air

So getting heated air out of the case becomes more important - the CPU
& Graphics card do not see room-ambient, they see case-ambient. Dells
tend to use minimal heatsinks and a rear-mounted CPU fan with duct. So
if the machine runs hot (and it will with a hot graphics card) so that large
ducted fan will run somewhat high - depending on model, very noisily.

Some of the Dells use a single fan of 57-63dB(A) at maximum operating temp,
so keep those machines quiet requires careful choice of internal components,
or at least keeping the room ambient near the machine as low as possible.

Water cooling may eventually make a strong comeback for industrial use:
o Water cooling is unremarkable in high-end power supplies
---- it's usage is coping with thermal density, similar to Mainframe & hot CPUs
o ATX-blade servers offer a short-term thermal solution
---- blade-servers offer similar, but are proprietary locked-in solutions
o Several water cooled solutions are posed to coloco & rack infrastructure
---- slowly water is creeping closer to the CPU it seems
---- initially - local chilled-water air-drop outlets near rack-inlets
-------- this copes with the 42x 1U with dual-Xeon/Opteron thermal density problem
-------- underfloor ducted air-velocity is otherwise too high to guarantee rack temps
---- later - direct chilled-water to heat-exchanger within each rack itself
-------- this is getting cool air directly to the load
-------- and minimising the number of connections or service hassle re getting feet wet
:-)
---- eventually - Intel & others propose various chilled water backplane solutions
-------- few water connections again, but a copper backplane "bus" of chilled connector
-------- heatpipes on the CPUs pump heat to a copper connector on the rear of the case
-------- sliding the case into the rack also interfaces with the heat removal system

Cooligy have solutions posted at "direct" chip water cooling, beyond current heatpipes.

Thus water cooling is about heat removal - it still has to be got rid of somewhere else.
For racks the problem is servicing - racks comprise lots of computers which comprise
multiple
single points of failure, thus servicing is actually quite regularly required. Around
25-45% of
all servicing itself results in further downtime or servicing required to correct
errors - not that
uncommon for someone to unplug the wrong machine or take others down; human error. So
adding water solutions into the mix is something many will resist relatively strongly.

IBM posed a "water cooled data storage cube" some time ago, which could equally be
applied
to compute nodes frankly, since the density issue is beneficial although cost remains an
issue.
o The water cooling was more related to bulk heat disposal
---- using a chilled water plant which has high redundancy, often available at many IT
sites
o The real objective of the project was about data-management
---- removing data-management from teams of DP staff into smarter software which
self-managed


The trick with water cooling will be not getting feet wet.
o Water leakage in your bedroom PC is one thing
---- the epoxy will eventually not like being puddled in it, but PSU aside the voltages
are ELV
---- PCs will keep happily keep running, as both military & industry prove regularly
o Water leakage on a *suspended floor* is a different matter since it "has to go
somewhere"
---- Yes, contingency has long been worked out for that
---- However in multi-racks, multi-PCs you have risk-increase, revenue-density-increase
---- So an offlined rack due to water problem can take out several other machines - and
revenue
---- Particularly, you could have someone else's machine taking out your e-Commerce
server

So from a Service Level Agreement perspective the water solutions are "being tip-toed".

In some form they will come:
o Yes, Prescott cooks - but future Workstation CPUs will be based around P-M
architecture
---- that stops the CPU thermal arms race, but graphics cards will run unabated a bit
longer
o Server side cooks - and is likely to continue to do so
---- server CPUs are necessaily switching to sudden eco-low-power systems
---- compute power can mean revenue in many applications, and dbase have RAM/HD heat too
---- dual-core CPUs can off-load processing alternately to reduce the thermal-density
per time

For one thing, rack thermal outputs increasingly require suspended floor void airflow
that is not
easily solved (even with 48" underfloor voids) - or even practical in terms of air speed
required.
Many systems would require 60-80mph airspeed under voids and still have inconsistenct
rack
temp beyond the usual low/mid/top variation experienced. So water cooling isn't going
away.

For consumers, some graphics card cooling innovation would be welcome.
BTX isn't a great solution here - but it's a step in the right direction, albeit
somewhat less than
ideal for some of the very high thermal output graphics cards (if passive solutions are
posed).

Hard drives are progressing from 3.5" to 2.5" which will help thermal output somewhat,
with
15.3k-rpm 3.5" drives actually using 2.5" platters inside anyway. Laptops will move to
1.8".
So data-warehousing to the desktop PC will see other areas thermally improve over time.
Better modelling is already employed - modern Dells are well CFA/FEA thermal modelled
with
Flotherm and other 3D modelling s/w to better manage heat density, noise & retain
reliability.

Desktop P-M boards could expand beyond the industrial application area, which for SOHO
PCs & home servers may prove a seller - Athlon Mobile offers a lot of low noise/heat now
tho.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo & NMB fans
November 16, 2004 11:40:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

> This is for you GTD
> What's ur temps, and would it help me.
> I might soon get a 2800+ CPU for my Gigabyte board, or I might just put it
> on my
> Asus board, the Asus A7N8X board has more of what I need for overclocking
> anyway.
> The Gigabyte board is just nice cause I could put 8 cd & or hd's on it + 2
> Sata.
> Could I get my 2200 + past 2.1 GHz and can I get a 2800+ past 2.2 or
> faster
> on water.
> Trading in my Gigabyte 8IG1000 Pro/P42.6C/HD20GB/cd-rom and memory.
> Asking only a cpu don't seem right, but I would rather through my P4 out a
> window.
> No More Intel's for me.

Hi Denny,

I'm not familiar with you Asus board but I recently bought an ABit NF7-S
v2.0 and installed my 1.5 year old XP2000+ Tbred B (12.5x133) on it. Using
my 2x256MB PC2100 RAM and using no more than 1.85V CPU core, the best I
could do was 167x13 Prime 95 and MemTest 86 stable with a TR2-M1 heatsink
and fan.

Adding a 512MB of PC3200 did not make things faster but I did run the
machine in dual channel memory mode with the PC2100s in mem slots 1 and 2
and the PC3200 in slot 3. Cool, I thought.

A few days ago I got a second 512MB PC3200 and removed the PC2100 and put
the second 512MB PC3200 into slot 2. After some experimentation, I managed
to get the XP2000+ to 2.2GHz by using 11x200 and boosting the Vcore to 1.93V
in BIOS and the RAM to 2.8V.

Both PC3200s are cheapies, one is rated at 3,3,3,8 and the other is 3,4,4,8
but I am running them at 2.5,3,3,8. I got the second PC3200 only a few days
ago so I am still experimenting with various settings but my aim is to get
the computer to work with less voltage as it is almost summer here in Oz.
Another experiment is to leave the VDimm as is or boost it and shorten the
RAM timings to get that extra 0.00000002% speed out of the RAM.

As I write this, I am converting a DVD into an AVI at around 43-46FPS and
the temps are as follows:-

Room temp:- 30C
Case temp:- 35C
CPU temp:- 58C

My case has one 92mm exhaust fan in the back and an 80mm fan in the PSU. I
have an 80mm fan mounted into the side panel but it seems to make the system
run hotter, perhaps because of turbulence or because it in mounted in the
middle of the panel and not over the CPU area so it is disconnected. I will
experiment by adding some front intake fans to see it they reduce temps.

One odd thing I did find whilst using SiSoft SANDRA was that when I changed
the settings from 11x200 to 8.5x200 the RAM speed dropped from about 3000 to
about 2800 wotsits, all other settings were unchanged. Weird.

Experiment with your comp and try to push it a bit, as I have done. I have
had to economise on various parts to get my comp where it is, it may not be
bleeding edge or even leading edge but it is still up there, not far behind.

As an aside to anyone out there, I am considering changing coolers from the
TR2-M1 to a Thermaltake CL-P0025 silent tower. The last time I checked,
there weren't many reviews about this cooler. Anyone got one? Does it
perform well?

Please don't recommend an all copper version as my comp often
travels with me in my 4x4 that has heavy duty suspension and I don't want
the HSF destroying my comp so I need something that is not very heavy. My
ABit does have mounting holes for the HSF so alternatives will be
considered.

Dave
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
November 17, 2004 7:45:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

> Hi Denny,
>
> I'm not familiar with you Asus board but I recently bought an ABit NF7-S
The A7N8X Line of boards can.
Change Multiplier settings, if the cpu is not locked, my 2200+ is not
locked.
I've had it up to 14x Hm, something, but it didn't help all that much.
FSB can be changed.
cpu vcore can be changed.
Ram Timings/& speed, but staying with (SPD) is the best.
More volts on ram.
Lock PCI & AGP
CPU Support up to 3200+
In other words, everything that an overclocker would want.

> v2.0 and installed my 1.5 year old XP2000+ Tbred B (12.5x133) on it.
Using
> my 2x256MB PC2100 RAM and using no more than 1.85V CPU core, the best I
> could do was 167x13 Prime 95 and MemTest 86 stable with a TR2-M1 heatsink
> and fan.
>
> Adding a 512MB of PC3200 did not make things faster but I did run the
> machine in dual channel memory mode with the PC2100s in mem slots 1 and 2
> and the PC3200 in slot 3. Cool, I thought.
>
> A few days ago I got a second 512MB PC3200 and removed the PC2100 and put
> the second 512MB PC3200 into slot 2. After some experimentation, I
managed
> to get the XP2000+ to 2.2GHz by using 11x200 and boosting the Vcore to
1.93V
> in BIOS and the RAM to 2.8V.
>
> Both PC3200s are cheapies, one is rated at 3,3,3,8 and the other is
3,4,4,8
> but I am running them at 2.5,3,3,8. I got the second PC3200 only a few
days
> ago so I am still experimenting with various settings but my aim is to get
> the computer to work with less voltage as it is almost summer here in Oz.
> Another experiment is to leave the VDimm as is or boost it and shorten the
> RAM timings to get that extra 0.00000002% speed out of the RAM.
>
> As I write this, I am converting a DVD into an AVI at around 43-46FPS and
> the temps are as follows:-
>
> Room temp:- 30C
> Case temp:- 35C
> CPU temp:- 58C
>
> My case has one 92mm exhaust fan in the back and an 80mm fan in the PSU.
I
> have an 80mm fan mounted into the side panel but it seems to make the
system
> run hotter, perhaps because of turbulence or because it in mounted in the
> middle of the panel and not over the CPU area so it is disconnected. I
will
> experiment by adding some front intake fans to see it they reduce temps.
>
> One odd thing I did find whilst using SiSoft SANDRA was that when I
changed
> the settings from 11x200 to 8.5x200 the RAM speed dropped from about 3000
to
> about 2800 wotsits, all other settings were unchanged. Weird.
>
> Experiment with your comp and try to push it a bit, as I have done. I
have
> had to economise on various parts to get my comp where it is, it may not
be
> bleeding edge or even leading edge but it is still up there, not far
behind.
>
> As an aside to anyone out there, I am considering changing coolers from
the
> TR2-M1 to a Thermaltake CL-P0025 silent tower. The last time I checked,
> there weren't many reviews about this cooler. Anyone got one? Does it
> perform well?
>
> Please don't recommend an all copper version as my comp often
> travels with me in my 4x4 that has heavy duty suspension and I don't want
> the HSF destroying my comp so I need something that is not very heavy. My
> ABit does have mounting holes for the HSF so alternatives will be
> considered.
I still wonder is water would help, I'm thinking about using a radiator from
an old motor cycle.
That would be somewhere out side of the computer, that way I could sit it
somewhere where
it's the coolest if possible.
For fans, I'm thinking about using more then one 120mm and using a PSU other
then the computers
PSU, maybe even just an old AT PSU, if it's only being used for that, it
won't hurt it @ all.
I'm sure trying to find a way to get them on there will take some doing, but
I think I'll figure it out.
Water pump? This I've been trying to figure out for some time, there's water
pumps that are used
on salt water tanks, they push a lot of water @ a time, so finding a way to
slow it down for just
the water block will take some doing, I could probably just have more then
one place for the water
to go.
Could also get something that don't pump that much water too, thinking about
just using an AMD Water block.
But I'll still have the problem of everything fitting.
It's going to be weeks till I build it, but when it's together, in a nice
size case, so everything will fit.
I'll upload pics to a website, and send you a link.

Sorry about my name, didn't feel like changing it back.
Dennis E Strausser. Wrote in message, re-something.
Denny.
>
> Dave
November 17, 2004 3:30:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"No_ONE_Here" <AnyOne@AnyWhere.com> wrote in message
news:419b1dbc$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
>
> Could also get something that don't pump that much water too, thinking
> about
> just using an AMD Water block.

Don't skimp on the pump, you want reliability with low noise.
Have a look here for various good quality pumps, click on info for each
pump.
http://www.coolercases.co.uk/wc_pumps.htm

> But I'll still have the problem of everything fitting.
> It's going to be weeks till I build it, but when it's together, in a
> nice
> size case, so everything will fit.
> I'll upload pics to a website, and send you a link.
>

Some pics of my first attempt here;
http://www.absolutepcsupport.co.uk/water-images/
I thought my case was big, until I fitted my wetware stuff ;-)

--
Ian
Anonymous
a b K Overclocking
December 10, 2004 7:16:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

test reply



"No_ONE_Here" <AnyOne@AnyWhere.com> wrote in message
news:419b1dbc$1_4@alt.athenanews.com...
>
> > Hi Denny,
> >
> > I'm not familiar with you Asus board but I recently bought an ABit NF7-S
> The A7N8X Line of boards can.
> Change Multiplier settings, if the cpu is not locked, my 2200+ is not
> locked.
> I've had it up to 14x Hm, something, but it didn't help all that much.
> FSB can be changed.
> cpu vcore can be changed.
> Ram Timings/& speed, but staying with (SPD) is the best.
> More volts on ram.
> Lock PCI & AGP
> CPU Support up to 3200+
> In other words, everything that an overclocker would want.
>
> > v2.0 and installed my 1.5 year old XP2000+ Tbred B (12.5x133) on it.
> Using
> > my 2x256MB PC2100 RAM and using no more than 1.85V CPU core, the best I
> > could do was 167x13 Prime 95 and MemTest 86 stable with a TR2-M1
heatsink
> > and fan.
> >
> > Adding a 512MB of PC3200 did not make things faster but I did run the
> > machine in dual channel memory mode with the PC2100s in mem slots 1 and
2
> > and the PC3200 in slot 3. Cool, I thought.
> >
> > A few days ago I got a second 512MB PC3200 and removed the PC2100 and
put
> > the second 512MB PC3200 into slot 2. After some experimentation, I
> managed
> > to get the XP2000+ to 2.2GHz by using 11x200 and boosting the Vcore to
> 1.93V
> > in BIOS and the RAM to 2.8V.
> >
> > Both PC3200s are cheapies, one is rated at 3,3,3,8 and the other is
> 3,4,4,8
> > but I am running them at 2.5,3,3,8. I got the second PC3200 only a few
> days
> > ago so I am still experimenting with various settings but my aim is to
get
> > the computer to work with less voltage as it is almost summer here in
Oz.
> > Another experiment is to leave the VDimm as is or boost it and shorten
the
> > RAM timings to get that extra 0.00000002% speed out of the RAM.
> >
> > As I write this, I am converting a DVD into an AVI at around 43-46FPS
and
> > the temps are as follows:-
> >
> > Room temp:- 30C
> > Case temp:- 35C
> > CPU temp:- 58C
> >
> > My case has one 92mm exhaust fan in the back and an 80mm fan in the PSU.
> I
> > have an 80mm fan mounted into the side panel but it seems to make the
> system
> > run hotter, perhaps because of turbulence or because it in mounted in
the
> > middle of the panel and not over the CPU area so it is disconnected. I
> will
> > experiment by adding some front intake fans to see it they reduce temps.
> >
> > One odd thing I did find whilst using SiSoft SANDRA was that when I
> changed
> > the settings from 11x200 to 8.5x200 the RAM speed dropped from about
3000
> to
> > about 2800 wotsits, all other settings were unchanged. Weird.
> >
> > Experiment with your comp and try to push it a bit, as I have done. I
> have
> > had to economise on various parts to get my comp where it is, it may not
> be
> > bleeding edge or even leading edge but it is still up there, not far
> behind.
> >
> > As an aside to anyone out there, I am considering changing coolers from
> the
> > TR2-M1 to a Thermaltake CL-P0025 silent tower. The last time I checked,
> > there weren't many reviews about this cooler. Anyone got one? Does it
> > perform well?
> >
> > Please don't recommend an all copper version as my comp often
> > travels with me in my 4x4 that has heavy duty suspension and I don't
want
> > the HSF destroying my comp so I need something that is not very heavy.
My
> > ABit does have mounting holes for the HSF so alternatives will be
> > considered.
> I still wonder is water would help, I'm thinking about using a radiator
from
> an old motor cycle.
> That would be somewhere out side of the computer, that way I could sit it
> somewhere where
> it's the coolest if possible.
> For fans, I'm thinking about using more then one 120mm and using a PSU
other
> then the computers
> PSU, maybe even just an old AT PSU, if it's only being used for that, it
> won't hurt it @ all.
> I'm sure trying to find a way to get them on there will take some doing,
but
> I think I'll figure it out.
> Water pump? This I've been trying to figure out for some time, there's
water
> pumps that are used
> on salt water tanks, they push a lot of water @ a time, so finding a way
to
> slow it down for just
> the water block will take some doing, I could probably just have more
then
> one place for the water
> to go.
> Could also get something that don't pump that much water too, thinking
about
> just using an AMD Water block.
> But I'll still have the problem of everything fitting.
> It's going to be weeks till I build it, but when it's together, in a nice
> size case, so everything will fit.
> I'll upload pics to a website, and send you a link.
>
> Sorry about my name, didn't feel like changing it back.
> Dennis E Strausser. Wrote in message, re-something.
> Denny.
> >
> > Dave
>
>
>
>
!