MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum - what RAM?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Hi People,

I am building a system:

MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3)
Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
Arctic Freezer 64

and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
use. I would like to overclock the system to 2400MHz,
possible even to 2700MHz if it runs really cool and stable.

Would I benefit more from getting RAM with a high speed,
e.g. PC533/566/600, or with a lower latency, e.g. PC400/433
with CL2 instead of CL2.5/3/4?

The machine will be used largely for video processing and
floating point simulations.

I will probably get 2x512MB modules. Also it would interest
me if the big brand name memory is really better, and if their
products for overclockers are really better. Corsair have for
example Value, XMS, and XMS Pro - what is really the difference,
given that speed and latency specs are equal?

Many thanks for any advice,
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

Here is a roundup of various ram.
http://www.anandtech.com/memory/showdoc.aspx?i=2226&p=8

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:62703be8.0412230214.2303de2a@posting.google.com...
> Hi People,
>
> I am building a system:
>
> MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3)
> Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
> Arctic Freezer 64
>
> and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
> use. I would like to overclock the system to 2400MHz,
> possible even to 2700MHz if it runs really cool and stable.
>
> Would I benefit more from getting RAM with a high speed,
> e.g. PC533/566/600, or with a lower latency, e.g. PC400/433
> with CL2 instead of CL2.5/3/4?
>
> The machine will be used largely for video processing and
> floating point simulations.
>
> I will probably get 2x512MB modules. Also it would interest
> me if the big brand name memory is really better, and if their
> products for overclockers are really better. Corsair have for
> example Value, XMS, and XMS Pro - what is really the difference,
> given that speed and latency specs are equal?
>
> Many thanks for any advice,
> David

 

[chip]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:62703be8.0412230214.2303de2a@posting.google.com...
> Hi People,
>
> I am building a system:
>
> MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3)
> Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
> Arctic Freezer 64
>
> and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
> use.

You should *definitely* buy ram with Samsung TCCD chips.

There are several brands and modules that use this: OCZ PC3200 Platinum
Rev2, PQI Turbo Ram, Corsair XMS. etc.

Do some research and you will find plenty of others. All "TCCD" ram should
do 270MHz or more in that board. Many will do 290MHz or even 300MHz.

Chip

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message news:3309idF3rqrc0U1@individual.net...
> "David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
> news:62703be8.0412230214.2303de2a@posting.google.com...
> > Hi People,
> >
> > I am building a system:
> >
> > MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3)
> > Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
> > Arctic Freezer 64
> >
> > and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
> > use.
>
> You should *definitely* buy ram with Samsung TCCD chips.
>
> There are several brands and modules that use this: OCZ PC3200 Platinum
> Rev2, PQI Turbo Ram, Corsair XMS. etc.
>
> Do some research and you will find plenty of others. All "TCCD" ram should
> do 270MHz or more in that board. Many will do 290MHz or even 300MHz.

Hi Chip,

Thanks for that input. There seems to be a fair bit in the literature
about these "TCCD" chips.

It doesn't seem to me though that there is a huge saving in overclocking
RAM. I can get 2x512MB of PC600 (A-Data Vitesta - any good?)
for around EUR250 whereas the brands you mention would cost around
EUR200, the OCZ a fair bit more..

My plan is, in the best-case scenario, to run the FSB at 300MHz
(CPU 2700MHz, HT 900MHz). So assuming I wanted to run my RAM
synchronously with the FSB, which many seem to advise, I would be
heavily overclocking any PC400 modules, whereas the PC600 Vitesta
would even be in spec for a small price more. That would be one thing less
to worry about while making sure the CPU was happy!

Or am I missing something here?

Thanks again,
David

 

[chip]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:cqf7gc$atr$02$1@news.t-online.com...
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:3309idF3rqrc0U1@individual.net...
>> "David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
>> news:62703be8.0412230214.2303de2a@posting.google.com...
>> > Hi People,
>> >
>> > I am building a system:
>> >
>> > MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum (nForce3)
>> > Athlon 64 3000+ Winchester
>> > Arctic Freezer 64
>> >
>> > and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
>> > use.
>>
>> You should *definitely* buy ram with Samsung TCCD chips.
>>
>> There are several brands and modules that use this: OCZ PC3200 Platinum
>> Rev2, PQI Turbo Ram, Corsair XMS. etc.
>>
>> Do some research and you will find plenty of others. All "TCCD" ram
>> should
>> do 270MHz or more in that board. Many will do 290MHz or even 300MHz.
>
> Hi Chip,
>
> Thanks for that input. There seems to be a fair bit in the literature
> about these "TCCD" chips.
>
> It doesn't seem to me though that there is a huge saving in overclocking
> RAM. I can get 2x512MB of PC600 (A-Data Vitesta - any good?)
> for around EUR250 whereas the brands you mention would cost around
> EUR200, the OCZ a fair bit more..
>
> My plan is, in the best-case scenario, to run the FSB at 300MHz
> (CPU 2700MHz, HT 900MHz). So assuming I wanted to run my RAM
> synchronously with the FSB, which many seem to advise, I would be
> heavily overclocking any PC400 modules, whereas the PC600 Vitesta
> would even be in spec for a small price more. That would be one thing less
> to worry about while making sure the CPU was happy!
>
> Or am I missing something here?

I'd say, yes you are missing something.

It doesn't matter what the manufacturer *calls* the ram, does it. All that
matters is how fast will it go, and at what timings. Many of the so-called
high speed memory sticks only achieve the higher speeds at the expense of
loose timings that considerably damage performance.

(Incidentally Samsung TCCD chips are rated at 250MHz. So sticks based on
TCCD really should be called PC4000 or DDR500, not PC3200 aka DDR400. The
stick manufacturers simply market them as PC3200 because there a bigger
market for that speed of memory.)

The bottom line is that the TCCD chips are just about the fastest you can
get, if not *the* fastest. The fact that they get sold as PC3200 and can be
bought for less money is just a complete bonus.

Chip

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message news:330offF3qitnjU1@individual.net...
> > Hi Chip,
> >
> > Thanks for that input. There seems to be a fair bit in the literature
> > about these "TCCD" chips.
> >
> > It doesn't seem to me though that there is a huge saving in overclocking
> > RAM. I can get 2x512MB of PC600 (A-Data Vitesta - any good?)
> > for around EUR250 whereas the brands you mention would cost around
> > EUR200, the OCZ a fair bit more..
> >
> > My plan is, in the best-case scenario, to run the FSB at 300MHz
> > (CPU 2700MHz, HT 900MHz). So assuming I wanted to run my RAM
> > synchronously with the FSB, which many seem to advise, I would be
> > heavily overclocking any PC400 modules, whereas the PC600 Vitesta
> > would even be in spec for a small price more. That would be one thing less
> > to worry about while making sure the CPU was happy!
> >
> > Or am I missing something here?
>
> I'd say, yes you are missing something.
>
> It doesn't matter what the manufacturer *calls* the ram, does it. All that
> matters is how fast will it go, and at what timings. Many of the so-called
> high speed memory sticks only achieve the higher speeds at the expense of
> loose timings that considerably damage performance.
>
> (Incidentally Samsung TCCD chips are rated at 250MHz. So sticks based on
> TCCD really should be called PC4000 or DDR500, not PC3200 aka DDR400. The
> stick manufacturers simply market them as PC3200 because there a bigger
> market for that speed of memory.)
>
> The bottom line is that the TCCD chips are just about the fastest you can
> get, if not *the* fastest. The fact that they get sold as PC3200 and can be
> bought for less money is just a complete bonus.

OK, I take the point that the actual performance is more important than
the specification. But you say for example:

> All "TCCD" ram should do 270MHz or more in that board.
> Many will do 290MHz or even 300MHz.

which suggests that there would be an element of luck in getting,
for example, an OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 to run at 300MHz.
Or to ask another way, what are the chances of stability at 300MHz?
Maybe...70% or 85%, but probably not 99% ? What would be interesing
would be a curve of probability against frequency!

OTOH an A-Data Vitesta PC600 module is rated for this speed,
i.e. guaranteed and presumably tested to run at 300MHz. If it
doesn't you can return it as defective. The
specified timings on the OCZ are better in clock cycles, but pretty
much the same in nanoseconds at the rated max. speed
(ok, I'm comparing 2/2/3/5 at 200MHz against 3/4/4/8 at 300MHz),
so probably I would have to increase the latencies on the OCZ
module if I could really overclock it to 300MHz. Or am I wrong there?
So far this is all theoretical for me.

So, given that, in this comparison, the two options cost just about the
same, why go for the lower rated and then overclock it to the speed
of the higher rated? OK, if I could take stock PC3200 which really
is cheaper and OC it, fine, but I haven't found any TCCD modules which
are much cheaper that RAM rated for 300MHz.

One other point: are there not issues other than the chips themselves
on memory modules? One often reads e.g. that the Infineon/3rd
modules are inferior to the Infineon/Infineon. I could imagine that
the highest attainable speed is determined by the weakest link in
the chain, which could be e.g. pcb tracks on a board or similar.

Thanks again,
David

 

[roy]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:62703be8.0412230214.2303de2a@posting.google.com...
> and I would like recommendations as to what RAM I should
> use. I would like to overclock the system to 2400MHz,
> possible even to 2700MHz if it runs really cool and stable.

Get G.Skill pc 4400 2.5 3 3 7 (LE or LF chips)

> Would I benefit more from getting RAM with a high speed,
> e.g. PC533/566/600, or with a lower latency, e.g. PC400/433
> with CL2 instead of CL2.5/3/4?

Get G.Skill pc 4400 2.5 3 3 7 (LE or LF chips)

> I will probably get 2x512MB modules. Also it would interest
> me if the big brand name memory is really better, and if their
> products for overclockers are really better. Corsair have for
> example Value, XMS, and XMS Pro - what is really the difference,
> given that speed and latency specs are equal?

Get G.Skill pc 4400 2.5 3 3 7 (LE or LF chips)

These are the best chips ever. They come with two ratings. They will do 2,
2, 2, 5, 1T at pc3200 ddr400 fsb 200 and they will also do 2.5, 3, 3, 7, 1T
at pc4400 ddr550 fsb 275 at stock voltages. If you are inclined to push
this ram it will respond favorably to higher voltages. I just got mine a
couple days ago from NewEgg and popped it right in. I'm have my Athlon 64
3000+ 939 90nm Winchester 1.8Ghz oc'd to 2.5Ghz, 9x, 278htt, 3ht and I'm
running my G.Skill PC4400 DDR550 512MB at 278Mhz, 1:1 ratio, 1T,
2.5-3-3-10, x 2 (dual channel)
I overclocked my winnie by 700Mhz without even pushing the RAM. If I
decided to push this ram (and I will eventually) it would perform nicely.
Most people can get 290 to 310 fsb from this ram. So as long as you have
good cooling and a good board, you can do 290x9=2610Mhz to 300x9=2700Mhz to
310x9=2790Mhz without breaking a sweat. Easiest thing you'll ever do. I'm
using an MSI K8N Neo 2 Plat 1.41Beta bios with ThermalTake Silent Tower
CL-P0025 heatpipe cooling. This combination of parts is known to work well
together to enable an incredible overclock. AMD is not even offering a
2.5Ghz 90nm dual channel capable 939 chip yet. But these kind of overclocks
are the norm, not exceptions.

 

[chip]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:cqfc04$j1n$05$1@news.t-online.com...
>
> "Chip" <anneonymouse@virgin.net> wrote in message
> news:330offF3qitnjU1@individual.net...
>> > Hi Chip,
>> >
>> > Thanks for that input. There seems to be a fair bit in the literature
>> > about these "TCCD" chips.
>> >
>> > It doesn't seem to me though that there is a huge saving in
>> > overclocking
>> > RAM. I can get 2x512MB of PC600 (A-Data Vitesta - any good?)
>> > for around EUR250 whereas the brands you mention would cost around
>> > EUR200, the OCZ a fair bit more..
>> >
>> > My plan is, in the best-case scenario, to run the FSB at 300MHz
>> > (CPU 2700MHz, HT 900MHz). So assuming I wanted to run my RAM
>> > synchronously with the FSB, which many seem to advise, I would be
>> > heavily overclocking any PC400 modules, whereas the PC600 Vitesta
>> > would even be in spec for a small price more. That would be one thing
>> > less
>> > to worry about while making sure the CPU was happy!
>> >
>> > Or am I missing something here?
>>
>> I'd say, yes you are missing something.
>>
>> It doesn't matter what the manufacturer *calls* the ram, does it. All
>> that
>> matters is how fast will it go, and at what timings. Many of the
>> so-called
>> high speed memory sticks only achieve the higher speeds at the expense of
>> loose timings that considerably damage performance.
>>
>> (Incidentally Samsung TCCD chips are rated at 250MHz. So sticks based on
>> TCCD really should be called PC4000 or DDR500, not PC3200 aka DDR400.
>> The
>> stick manufacturers simply market them as PC3200 because there a bigger
>> market for that speed of memory.)
>>
>> The bottom line is that the TCCD chips are just about the fastest you can
>> get, if not *the* fastest. The fact that they get sold as PC3200 and can
>> be
>> bought for less money is just a complete bonus.
>
> OK, I take the point that the actual performance is more important than
> the specification. But you say for example:
>
>> All "TCCD" ram should do 270MHz or more in that board.
>> Many will do 290MHz or even 300MHz.
>
> which suggests that there would be an element of luck in getting,
> for example, an OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 to run at 300MHz.
>

Of course. 300MHz is no way guaranteed.

>
>
> OTOH an A-Data Vitesta PC600 module is rated for this speed,
> i.e. guaranteed and presumably tested to run at 300MHz. If it
> doesn't you can return it as defective.

.... and that's where the argument falls down.

Don't get me wrong, perhaps you have a better chance of hitting 300MHz with
PC600 ram. But I would only say "perhaps". Since there aren't actually any
300MHz certified motherboards in existance, then I think getting 300MHz is
always going to be a bit of a gamble.

Chip

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

I thunk you can set the ram one or two ratings down, like to 2700, then up
the fsb until the ram is back up to it's rating.

Assuming the pci/agp is locked.


--
Ed Light

Smiley :-/
MS Smiley :-\

Send spam to the FTC at
uce@ftc.gov
Thanks, robots.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

> > which suggests that there would be an element of luck in getting,
> > for example, an OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 to run at 300MHz.
>
> Of course. 300MHz is no way guaranteed.
>
> > OTOH an A-Data Vitesta PC600 module is rated for this speed,
> > i.e. guaranteed and presumably tested to run at 300MHz. If it
> > doesn't you can return it as defective.
>
> ... and that's where the argument falls down.
>
> Don't get me wrong, perhaps you have a better chance of hitting 300MHz with
> PC600 ram. But I would only say "perhaps". Since there aren't actually any
> 300MHz certified motherboards in existance, then I think getting 300MHz is
> always going to be a bit of a gamble.

OK, point taken. But the board we are talking about here does allows an FSB of
300MHz which I assume means (in the absence of setting another limit) that the
RAM would be running at this speed too. But is it really not "certified" for this speed?
What is the guarantee position there? I mean, if the board allows you to set 300MHz
then surely it must work at that speed itself, even if the RAM doesn't?

 

[Ed]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 19:15:56 +0100, "David Johnstone"
<david_ffm@mail.com> wrote:

>> > which suggests that there would be an element of luck in getting,
>> > for example, an OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 to run at 300MHz.
>>
>> Of course. 300MHz is no way guaranteed.
>>
>> > OTOH an A-Data Vitesta PC600 module is rated for this speed,
>> > i.e. guaranteed and presumably tested to run at 300MHz. If it
>> > doesn't you can return it as defective.
>>
>> ... and that's where the argument falls down.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, perhaps you have a better chance of hitting 300MHz with
>> PC600 ram. But I would only say "perhaps". Since there aren't actually any
>> 300MHz certified motherboards in existance, then I think getting 300MHz is
>> always going to be a bit of a gamble.
>
>OK, point taken. But the board we are talking about here does allows an FSB of
>300MHz which I assume means (in the absence of setting another limit) that the
>RAM would be running at this speed too. But is it really not "certified" for this speed?
>What is the guarantee position there? I mean, if the board allows you to set 300MHz
>then surely it must work at that speed itself, even if the RAM doesn't?
>

Unless the MSI specs say 300MHz don't hold your breath getting it to run
stable that fast, seems lot of folks can't run Athlon 64's bus much
faster then around 250MHz, the on-die memory controller fails at the
higher bus speeds is my guess.

Ed

 

[chip]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking.amd (More info?)

"David Johnstone" <david_ffm@mail.com> wrote in message
news:cr1gh1$stj$02$1@news.t-online.com...
>> > which suggests that there would be an element of luck in getting,
>> > for example, an OCZ PC3200 Platinum Rev2 to run at 300MHz.
>>
>> Of course. 300MHz is no way guaranteed.
>>
>> > OTOH an A-Data Vitesta PC600 module is rated for this speed,
>> > i.e. guaranteed and presumably tested to run at 300MHz. If it
>> > doesn't you can return it as defective.
>>
>> ... and that's where the argument falls down.
>>
>> Don't get me wrong, perhaps you have a better chance of hitting 300MHz
>> with
>> PC600 ram. But I would only say "perhaps". Since there aren't actually
>> any
>> 300MHz certified motherboards in existance, then I think getting 300MHz
>> is
>> always going to be a bit of a gamble.
>
> OK, point taken. But the board we are talking about here does allows an
> FSB of
> 300MHz which I assume means (in the absence of setting another limit) that
> the
> RAM would be running at this speed too. But is it really not "certified"
> for this speed?
> What is the guarantee position there? I mean, if the board allows you to
> set 300MHz
> then surely it must work at that speed itself, even if the RAM doesn't?

I think you will find its certified for 200MHz. This isn't an MSI oddity -
its normal for motherboard manufacturers to offer higher speeds and yet only
*guarantee* AMD stock speed.

And its not just a warranty issue either. In all probability, the board
will NOT run at its maximum allowable speed. (Which I think is 350MHz on
the K8N Neo2). The highest speeds are simply there to give you a sporting
chance.

Chip