There's something I want done, but I don't have any solutions as to ho

Instead of our politicians wasting millions of dollars on these stupid campaign ads start to do something sensible and meaningful REGULATE GUN CONTROL in our country. No candidate has not mentioned this essential point at all. This is becoming a cancer which is spreading and killing and maiming innocent people everywhere.Screw the NRA and start showing some guts and do something about them with their powerful influence they have on our politicians.STOP THEM NOW!
119 answers Last reply
More about there done solutions
  1. Check on and report the mentally unstable, red flag them from certain things
  2. If they couldn't but guns and carry them around so easily then they wouldn't be such a threat.

    http://news.google.com.au/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn

    "In the last 60 days, [Holmes] purchased four guns at local metro gun shops and through the internet, he purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition," said Mr Coates, who occasionally fought to control his emotion.

    The ammunition includes more than 3,000 rounds bought for an assault rifle, 3,000 rounds for two Glock handguns and 300 rounds for a shotgun.

    "Also through the internet, he purchased multiple magazines for the .223 calibre assault rifle, including one 100-round drum magazine, which was recovered from the scene," Mr Coates added.

    "I'm told by experts that with that drum magazine, he could have gotten off 50 to 60 rounds... within one minute.

    "And as far as we know, it was a pretty rapid pace of fire in that theatre.

    "My understanding is all weapons he possessed, he possessed legally. All ammunition he possessed, he possessed legally."


    New York mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has long argued for tighter restrictions on fire arms, is challenging the candidates to spell out their positions on gun control.

    "Somebody's got to do something about this and this requires, particularly in a presidential year, the candidates for president of the United States to stand up and once for all and say, 'Yes, it's a tragedy'," he said.
  3. I guess if you own a gun, or have in the past, or planning on getting one, you can see both sides of this issue.
    One thing, they still cant enter his house, not because of a gun, but a bomb.
    I firmly believe, if guns arent available, bombs will be used.
    Nowhere on that list, not one mention of bombs by many MSM sites, only guns, which shows a fixation by them.
    They cant stop bombs, a gun wasnt used to take out Syrias top military, it was a bomb.
    In Ireland, it isnt guns, in Israel it isnt guns, in the Mid East, its not guns.

    Rarely do people go off like this, and in any given day, those whove been rereleased into society kill this many every day.
    Take the guns out of the crime ridden, then people may accept a more regulated scenario, but only a few.
    The real crime is, this happens every day by criminals, yet this is the example.
    There are laws regarding the law abiding on gun ownership, its when things like this happens when it comes to the forefront.
    The laws being broken by the lawless goes unimpeded, and the cries are few, except for the cops that see the lawless released time and again.

    Understand, this is a right, nothing less
  4. musical marv said:
    Instead of our politicians wasting millions of dollars on these stupid campaign ads start to do something sensible and meaningful REGULATE GUN CONTROL in our country. No candidate has not mentioned this essential point at all. This is becoming a cancer which is spreading and killing and maiming innocent people everywhere.Screw the NRA and start showing some guts and do something about them with their powerful influence they have on our politicians.STOP THEM NOW!


    What would impress me is if they took that campaign money and helped some of the worst case family situations in this country.

    If they did that, that would be the politician I would vote for, because he or she would care more for the people than themselves.

    The NRA is not the enemy in this situation.

    The right to bear arms was simply provided so we the people if the necessity ever arises had the means to take back the government, in the very same fashion America gained it's independence from Britain in the beginning of the US.

    Every time something like this happens it's always the gun owners the negativity is directed at, have you ever considered maybe the regulating crowd could be behind these type of events to further their own goals.

    As with all possibilities?

    It is a possibility, especially if they considered the actions of a senseless slaughter to be acceptable losses to further their own gains, they would be no better than the perpetrators of the crimes.

    The gun itself is not the problem, and gun ownership is not the problem, it's the person pulling the triggers intentions.

    Why is it when a home owner successfully defends his or her home against an invading criminal, it's news brushed under the rug, even if the homeowner kills more than one assailant.

    IMO that's the purpose of the gun to protect yourself and your home and family, in the event it becomes a necessity.

    Why do you think Japan was smart enough to not to have their infantry invade US soil, simply because they already knew the weapons across the US would be a blood bath they would surely loose, because American gun owners will not just hand over their guns to an invading army, they'll fight to the death.

    Guns are a part of everyday life, some have them, some don't, mostly the ones that don't have them get scared when this senseless slaughter type things happen, and they get scared it will happen to them, so remove all the guns, and the problems go away.

    Wrong!

    Then you'll have a whole new set of problems you hadn't even considered!

    I'm 4ryan6 and I approved this message! :)

    Ryan
  5. Reynod said:
    If they couldn't but guns and carry them around so easily then they wouldn't be such a threat.

    http://news.google.com.au/nwshp?hl=en&tab=wn

    "In the last 60 days, [Holmes] purchased four guns at local metro gun shops and through the internet, he purchased over 6,000 rounds of ammunition," said Mr Coates, who occasionally fought to control his emotion.

    The ammunition includes more than 3,000 rounds bought for an assault rifle, 3,000 rounds for two Glock handguns and 300 rounds for a shotgun.

    "Also through the internet, he purchased multiple magazines for the .223 calibre assault rifle, including one 100-round drum magazine, which was recovered from the scene," Mr Coates added.

    "I'm told by experts that with that drum magazine, he could have gotten off 50 to 60 rounds... within one minute.

    "And as far as we know, it was a pretty rapid pace of fire in that theatre.

    "My understanding is all weapons he possessed, he possessed legally. All ammunition he possessed, he possessed legally."


    New York mayor Michael Bloomberg, who has long argued for tighter restrictions on fire arms, is challenging the candidates to spell out their positions on gun control.

    "Somebody's got to do something about this and this requires, particularly in a presidential year, the candidates for president of the United States to stand up and once for all and say, 'Yes, it's a tragedy'," he said.
    I agree Obama has to start pushing for more gun control asap and not worry so much about his campaign donations he is getting. Also this internet is getting worse by buying all this crap over it including guns and drugs also.
  6. Christopher Nolan must be pissed!

    (Dark Knight was an awesome movie, saw it on opening day.)
  7. Maybe the US gun laws are all about controlling the population growth ?

    Letting the fanatics loose with few controls (allowing huge bix magazines, assault rifles and few purchasing controls) allows the population to "cull" itself ... plus it keeps the gun and ammo sales up while the paranoid buy more guns and ammo so they can fee safer at night?

    A self perpetuating cycle of stupidity and ignorance.

    It looks like the NRA has become so powerful over there that no members of parliament are game to even tackle the issue behind a bit of sad lip service to the victims.

    Buy more guns boys.
  8. Dont complain if you never had the right.

    Glad the bombs were deactivated, or it would have killed many more, but hey, its just a bomb.
    Lets put emphasis on guns, and someone who wanted to commit a huge crime, ignore the bomb boys, this is too important.

    If youve ever had the right, then give that right up, I do hope things go well forever
  9. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    Personally, I think we should regulate ladders. Far more people in America die from falling off ladders than they do from guns.

    Oh yeah, "assault rifles" are already heavily regulated and controlled. Just thought you would like to know Reynod.
    Maybe you would be to funny if one of your family members died from this barrage of bullets this animal shot killing innocent people. Ladders are you kidding me???
  10. Cars, water from drowning, boats, sports injuries resulting in deaths.
    Drugs, alcohol, tobacco.....
    oh, and bombs
    If the tenants messed with the door due to all the loud music being played annoying them, that bomb would have taken many lives.
    Every component used to build those bombs were legally bought, but nary a word.
  11. Reynod said:
    It looks like the NRA has become so powerful over there that no members of parliament are game to even tackle the issue behind a bit of sad lip service to the victims.


    We don't have a parliament, we have a GubbaMent, or you could call it a BubbaClub or (Good Ole Boys Club), which operates on Parlor Tricks! :lol:

    Parlor Tricks? > Parliament? I can see the confusion. ;)

    Seriously:

    There are many, many, gun owners in the US that don't have a thing to do with the NRA, or actually could care less it even exists.

    You may have the NRA on too high a pedestal.

    Reynod said:
    Buy more guns boys.


    Actually every time something like this happens, and the get the guns flag wavers start waving their flags, we have a run on gun buying in the US, every single time.

    And that sir, is the 100% truth!

    *********************************************************************************************

    The tragedy is a sad event, but somehow, someone, always seems to benefit from it!

    Different subject but similar to the war mentality of acceptable losses, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it happens.

    What would be your solution to the problem?

    And every gun owner just voluntarily handing over their guns is not going to happen.

    Door to door search and seizure will start another civil war or revolutionary war, take your pick.

    Is there anyway to predict when a perfectly sane individual goes insane, and does something like this in the first place?

    Forget that, that's not a fair question, if you knew that answer you'd be the richest person in the world.

    No essays please, just short and to the point?

    Hope you're having a great day or night, whatever time it is over there! Ry
  12. Looking at restricting or banning guns because of this.. well, how many people didn't carry, legally, into that theater because they were worried about breaking the law?

    By restricting where guns can go, you open the path to a gun free zone where criminals will target.

    I do not understand how restricting firearms, even banning them, will resolve the issue. It will not.

    Now, look to Switzerland where everyone has a firearm and is trained in it. You'd think they would have massive shootings. They don't.
  13. Make drugs illegal, only criminals possess them.

    Make guns illegal, only criminals possess them.

    Not the world I want to live in. I like my gun cabinet and it's contents.. that I use for hunting.. responsibly.

    Guns aren't the problem, crazy people are - if you think banning guns will keep them out of the hands of people that want to shoot something up.. I have a bridge to sell you.
  14. 4Ryan6 said:
    We don't have a parliament, we have a GubbaMent, or you could call it a BubbaClub or (Good Ole Boys Club), which operates on Parlor Tricks! :lol:

    Parlor Tricks? > Parliament? I can see the confusion. ;)

    Seriously:

    There are many, many, gun owners in the US that don't have a thing to do with the NRA, or actually could care less it even exists.

    You may have the NRA on too high a pedestal.


    Actually every time something like this happens, and the get the guns flag wavers start waving their flags, we have a run on gun buying in the US, every single time.

    And that sir, is the 100% truth!

    *********************************************************************************************

    The tragedy is a sad event, but somehow, someone, always seems to benefit from it!

    Different subject but similar to the war mentality of acceptable losses, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's right, I'm just saying it happens.

    What would be your solution to the problem?

    And every gun owner just voluntarily handing over their guns is not going to happen.

    Door to door search and seizure will start another civil war or revolutionary war, take your pick.

    Is there anyway to predict when a perfectly sane individual goes insane, and does something like this in the first place?

    Forget that, that's not a fair question, if you knew that answer you'd be the richest person in the world.

    No essays please, just short and to the point?

    Hope you're having a great day or night, whatever time it is over there! Ry



    Hi Ry.

    Actually your quite right on all counts.

    Trying to get the guns off the street now would be just about impossible I guess.

    Here we had much fewer guns before the big gun restrictions were imposed so It was much easier.

    My family were in a rural area and we had a lot of rifles and now my brother has a couple left, and the rest of us handed ours over years ago.

    Here we have no need of them ... its much like Canada ... but hotter ... and flatter ... and we have flies ... and they have bears.

    Since so many of your university students seem to be going nuts over there in Colorado maybe the lecturers are to blame for making the exams so hard?
  15. 65 million gun owners in the US. 4.5 million in the NRA.

    Ban all guns, sure. What stops an individual from making pipe bombs from Home Depot or Lowes? Or other explosive devices that would likely hurt more people with a single detonation.

    For that matter, what stopped him from bringing in a 30lbs bomb and setting it off?

    Guns are not the problem. It is the person who is the problem. I will have to check my local theaters but I think they're a gun free zone - so you can't carry into them. I will need to double check. That means no one in the audience legally is carrying a firearm and able to protect.

    Again, these shootings almost always happen in areas where other people wouldn't have firearms. Granted, he did have on ballistic gear to prevent getting shot and was on vicodin to prevent feeling as much pain and whatever else.

    I blame prescription drugs over guns.
  16. I think we can agree that buying guns and ammo is way too easy.

    You can buy drum clips off the internet, with thousands of rounds of ammo with no check on who you are.

    I say make it way harder to obtain a gun. Im not sure what exactly the policy would look like but this guy bought all of his weapons online legally.
  17. You have to go through a background check when purchasing a gun from a supplier. I would agree that selling a firearm should have to go on the books (as opposed to selling for cash, no one knowing where it goes).

    Ever firearm I have purchased I have had to go through a background check. This guy went through his background check and passed.

    While you can buy accessories online, you can not simply buy a gun and have it mailed to your house. They still send it to a supplier where you have to pick it up.. and you still have to pass the background check.

    Proposing to make it harder.. how so? What additional checks would be necessary?
  18. Probably from the same place he got all the money to go to grad school.
  19. Grad student, parents seem to have some money, and he probably took out loans.

    I plan on making a large ammo purchase and get a few accessories I want for my firearms before this coming election. Mainly I see ammo and select items disappearing off the shelves come election time.
  20. I currently dont own a gun.
    Havnt in years.
    This isnt something that drives my decision on what I believe is a right to own or carry.
    Many friends own, or carry as well of mine. I trust them, respect them.

    I have gone hunting, been to many firing ranges, target practice here and there, and someday I may own one again, if I so choose.
    I have pests that may require this, and no, the government solution doesnt exist here, as they wont help, and me and my neighbors land is susceptible to the critters destruction.
    It would be my last attempt at fixing it, but so far no luck, as now that Im back in Gods country, I like to have as little impact as possible.
    Make no mistake, I will defend the right to own and or carry a gun, and if pressed, will buy one.
    One wonders how many more people would be alive if people had guns and not used bombs.
    An anarchists favorite weapon is a bomb, and is why we saw this guys attempt to use one.
    A nut job loses it, takes out people with their car, it happens.
    We cant stop this, but we cant responsibly attack one segment of society as an excuse to rid guns out of rightful responsible peoples hands either, no more than we can take peoples cars away.
    Road rage happens, intentional accidents with cars happen, people die.
    Fires happen, people die.

    My earlier link, where the two creeps attacked the internet cafe, they were released within 2 days after the incedent, now, wheres the push against this?
  21. I was at the shooting range 3 weeks ago. The guy next to me decided to take his life and used a .44 magnum he had rented. I was standing five feet from him when he did it. Too bad he looked up too much and the bullet went from under his chin up and out through his nose.

    When he fell down with the gaping hole in his face, I looked at him and figured I couldn't help him. I went up front to the office and told them what happened. At first I thought the guy was dead because he was convulsing. Instead, the shock from shot messed him up pretty good.
  22. musical marv said:
    Instead of our politicians wasting millions of dollars on these stupid campaign ads start to do something sensible and meaningful REGULATE GUN CONTROL in our country. No candidate has not mentioned this essential point at all. This is becoming a cancer which is spreading and killing and maiming innocent people everywhere.Screw the NRA and start showing some guts and do something about them with their powerful influence they have on our politicians.STOP THEM NOW!
    Oh puh-leez...here we go. :sarcastic:

    I was wondering how long it would take the peanut gallery to start the anti-gun tirades.
  23. wanamingo said:
    I think we can agree that buying guns and ammo is way too easy.

    You can buy drum clips off the internet, with thousands of rounds of ammo with no check on who you are.

    I say make it way harder to obtain a gun. Im not sure what exactly the policy would look like but this guy bought all of his weapons online legally.
    It's obvious you do not live in New Jersey.

    New Jersey has the following;
    Mental Health background screening.
    Criminal History background screening.
    FBI fingerprint database screening.
    Deadbeat Dad screening.
    Drug Abuse screening.
    Domestic Violence or Spousal Abuse screening.
    Affidavit of Character from two non-related persons.
    One hand-gun per month waiting period. (Only 3 States have this law; NJ, CA, and MD)

    Since any magazine over 15 rounds is banned in New Jersey, I can not buy 100 drum clips from a FFL off the interwebs and have them mailed to my home; they simply will not ship them to a New Jersey address. Many websites that sell gun accessories have restrictions on what can and can not be shipped based on that State's laws. The difficulty or ease of purchasing guns and ammo is relative and varies from State to State.

    Fact is, gun laws and gun bans are irrelevant. All of what NJ does is irrelevant when Camden is named the Murder Capital of the United States for several years in a row. But the most important reason gun laws and gun bans are flat out ineffective is because they do not address the basic social, economic and/or cultural factors that cause suicide, murder, robbery, and violent crime.
  24. So how would pro-gun owners lower the amount of gun deaths?

    According to politifact there are around 100,000 gun deaths each year, you remove suicide and you are still left with ~86,000 people killed by guns each year in the United States.

    which is like 225 people every day. So it is a problem that needs to be addressed. The status quo isnt working.
  25. Oops sorry that 100,000 people get SHOT every year.

    I think I made an error when I carried the 5 and then divided by -0.
  26. wanamingo said:
    So how would pro-gun owners lower the amount of gun deaths?

    According to politifact there are around 100,000 gun deaths each year, you remove suicide and you are still left with ~86,000 people killed by guns each year in the United States.

    which is like 225 people every day. So it is a problem that needs to be addressed. The status quo isnt working.


    You read the numbers wrong. They do a statistic per 100,000 people. There are around 30,000 deaths per year, over half of which tend to be suicides. Less than 1000 per year in personal defense.

    Citing the latest numbers I found from 2008:

    9500 gun related deaths in the US.
    3500 violence related deaths (stabbing, blunt objects, stranglation)

    http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004888.html

    Whereas the UK lists 60,000 stabbings a year, or 160 a day by the math provided in another article.

    I think this simply proves that it comes down to the person, not the device.
  27. I figured someone would have responded to my comment about the suicide attempt at the range...
  28. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    +1 for monster.

    Take Chicago this year. The most restrictive gun laws in the country yet 274 people have been shot and killed so far this year in a city where owning a handgun is already illegal.
    What is the answer than?
  29. riser said:
    Looking at restricting or banning guns because of this.. well, how many people didn't carry, legally, into that theater because they were worried about breaking the law?

    By restricting where guns can go, you open the path to a gun free zone where criminals will target.

    I do not understand how restricting firearms, even banning them, will resolve the issue. It will not.

    Now, look to Switzerland where everyone has a firearm and is trained in it. You'd think they would have massive shootings. They don't.



    The Swiss are much more culturally mature than Americans ?.

    I think it is all about the cultural norms that your exposed to while growing up.

    Take for instance the view that many of you have regarding home invasions ... you have almost all stated that you would shoot first and ask questions later if your heard loud noises at night and thought someone was breaking in.

    Here would probably open the door and give that drunken relative a last beer and just put them to bed ... or yell at the guy and tell him he staggered into the wrong home on his way back from the pub.

    Like the Canadians we tend to have a much more relaxed view where in the US you tend to be highly suspicious and paranoid about anything you perceive as impinging upon your personal liberty or free will.

    This I find hard to understand as from my perspective the US looks like a free for all 24/7 circus where the performers are shooting kids in the crowd while doing acrobatics on the high wire ... and the lions and the bears are roaming freely through the crowd ... taking bites out of the audience as well.

    From where I stand you have so much free will this has caused the country to fall into chaos on so many levels.

    You also have some of the best things there too ... but the balance is askew.

    The obsession in the US about individual success being more important than community values is at the heart of the matter.
  30. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    The NRA is not some faceless entity wielding an invisible hand of power. It is made up of 4.5 million law abiding Americans. We pool our resources in the interest of protecting our God given rights. It is the oldest civil rights organization in America.

    The idea of passing any sort of restrictions on law abiding citizens will prevent criminal nutjob type behavior is asinine.

    By definition, criminals don't obey laws and restrictions.


    So when do the vigilante NRA goon squad plan to start targetting the criminals by driving around in pickups and shooting at them?

    It isn't a civil rights group unless it has some kind of positive role to play in society ... frankly they must be viewed in the same light as the fringe religious cults in the absence of any positive outcomes they seem to lack?
  31. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    Sometimes, there is no answer. It's the human condition. Population control? Is that the answer? A controlled Brave New World?

    Aldous Huxley would agree with you.


    Only China currently has the ability to impose "Newspeak" through its control on the internetz and other media (television / papers) and that term was coined by George Orwell in the book 1984 ... probably more of interest to this discussion from my perspective than Huxley.
  32. Take people that didnt want to be hemmed in, take people with a make or break it mentality, take people whod rather shoot their governing body, but were kept too poor or werent allowed guns,take people who left their families into a brave new world, thats Americans.
    Obviously not all Americans feel this way, but mostly this is who we were.
    Society has softened such things, but as a whole, between traditions and that same spirit, it remains largely an American way of life.
    It is then therefore no surprise to me to see such things going on, tho it has been handled poorly.
    Some are mad that we build more prisons, and act as if it were a money scheme, and those are folks that dont own guns for the most part, as for the gun owners, throw em in n lock em up
  33. Hey don't spin me that line JD and expect me to nod and agree.

    We were settled by convicts, miners and immigrants ... though 200 years later history rewrote the Aboriginal people back into the script ... better late than never I guess.

    The US therefore has no advantage in terms of mongrel pedigree than we do ...
    that arguement just doesn't stand up.

    Locking up more people won't help either.

    P.S. Don't drive in the back of a pickup truck in Texas ... or go to the movies.
  34. Were they escaping in the same era?
    Were there many Germans, Swedes, Norwegians, Finns, Irish, English, Scots, Italians and Jews?
    All together yet apart?
    Leaving for the same reasons?
    Was the land ready to plant and go?
    Was there water readily available?
    Animals for an easy hunt?
    Or, was it more specialized?
    People came with a purpose, other than to be free of their old countries?
    Were there over 500 tribes, all differing of natives?
  35. riser said:
    I was at the shooting range 3 weeks ago. The guy next to me decided to take his life and used a .44 magnum he had rented. I was standing five feet from him when he did it. Too bad he looked up too much and the bullet went from under his chin up and out through his nose.

    When he fell down with the gaping hole in his face, I looked at him and figured I couldn't help him. I went up front to the office and told them what happened. At first I thought the guy was dead because he was convulsing. Instead, the shock from shot messed him up pretty good.


    Dude what an experience to witness!

    I'm at a loss for words riser! Ry
  36. http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jul/02/man-shoots-self-in-face-at-coal-creek-armory/?comments_id=2262724

    That's the write up in it. I had to give 2.5 hours of written and recorded speeches, answer what firearms I was shooting and the whole scenario as I saw it. After about 2 hours they finally reviewed the range footage and let us go. I was the only person who really saw anything.

    I could have stuck three fingers side by side into the gaping hole in his face. At first I thought the gun had recoiled and hit him in the face.. but after half a second I realiezd he shot himself. I thought he was dead.. doing his death throes and all but it had to take some brain damage from that shock.

    He was having issues with his wife and his mother in law.. Now he's going to be a mute, considered mentally unstable, and still have to deal with the wife and inlaws. If you're going to do it, do it right with a shotgun.

    I was close enough that if he put his arm out and I put my arm out, we'd be touching each other. I dislike going to the range alone.. what bothered me the most is that I had just shot the last of my rounds in my firearm. It was sitting there ready to be reloaded when he did it. He could have easily turned and shot someone else first. Three seconds earlier I was walking behind him from a trash can tossing a target and empty box.
  37. Reynod said:
    The Swiss are much more culturally mature than Americans ?.

    I think it is all about the cultural norms that your exposed to while growing up.

    Take for instance the view that many of you have regarding home invasions ... you have almost all stated that you would shoot first and ask questions later if your heard loud noises at night and thought someone was breaking in.

    Here would probably open the door and give that drunken relative a last beer and just put them to bed ... or yell at the guy and tell him he staggered into the wrong home on his way back from the pub.

    Like the Canadians we tend to have a much more relaxed view where in the US you tend to be highly suspicious and paranoid about anything you perceive as impinging upon your personal liberty or free will.

    This I find hard to understand as from my perspective the US looks like a free for all 24/7 circus where the performers are shooting kids in the crowd while doing acrobatics on the high wire ... and the lions and the bears are roaming freely through the crowd ... taking bites out of the audience as well.

    From where I stand you have so much free will this has caused the country to fall into chaos on so many levels.

    You also have some of the best things there too ... but the balance is askew.

    The obsession in the US about individual success being more important than community values is at the heart of the matter.


    Many states have the Castle Law or Doctine. If someone breaks INTO your home, you have the right to shoot them. Now, at some point you realize someone is breaking in. You should also take into consideration family members or others before shooting. You should be aware of these.

    For myself, I'm well built and bigger. I'm near 6' and 240lbs. Me shooting right away would draw a red flag if the person was not in the home. If my recent ex, 5'7 and 120lbs fired the shots, they wouldn't think twice. It is all relative to how much in danger you are. She could shoot someone beating on the door and probably be fine. I could not. Now, if someone is in the house and I'm not expecting anyone, you have the right to shoot first. Someone invading your domain.. you have the right to attack. Such as walking into a bear's cave or sticking your face in a groundhog hole. Guess what, you're too close, there is a threat perceived, someone's gonna get hurt.

    My previous city, Toledo, Ohio, suffers multiple daily shootings and people constantly going to the hospital. Most are non life theatening wounds. I smile when I hear people in Knoxville talk about a shooting. It happens from time to time.. it isn't multiple times a day. I realize how nice it is to live down here as opposed to up north.

    People up there didn't have jobs, the only thing they have is "respect" meaning Ego and what people think about them. They'll kill for stupid things, for street cred.. That's their culture. They'll live in shacks or run down apartments, they'll use their EBT card, they'll have nothing.. but they will be the best dressed. That's all they have. Insult them, step on a shoe, and they'll start shooting. You disrespected them, they need to keep that image up.

    If you are afraid for your life, shoot. If the person is drunk, it is their fault for losing control and all that. Who knows what a drunk person will/can do.

    How many times did someone not shoot, not get their gun, and get murdered? Last year, two young adults were killed in Toledo. Two guys broke in, put garbage bags over this guy's head and his girlfriend's, duct taped it around their neck, tied them up. Left them there until they suffocated. For what? The girl's family were wealthy and the street thugs only knew "rich" people sold drugs.. didn't work. They ransacked the house looking for the drugs they thought the parents were selling. Idiots. That's why we have these laws: the protect the innocent.
  38. wanamingo said:
    So how would pro-gun owners lower the amount of gun deaths?
    The notion that gun owners are somehow responsible to reduce the number of gun deaths is just ridiculous. Responsible and legal gun owners already do their part to reduce the number of gun deaths by following the law and being responsible gun owners. To imply responsible and legal gun owners should be doing more than that ignores the criminal and evil intentions.

    Reynod said:
    Take for instance the view that many of you have regarding home invasions ... you have almost all stated that you would shoot first and ask questions later if your heard loud noises at night and thought someone was breaking in.

    Here would probably open the door and give that drunken relative a last beer and just put them to bed ... or yell at the guy and tell him he staggered into the wrong home on his way back from the pub.
    Implying that a gun owner would shoot a relative coming home late from the pub is just ridiculous and intellectually dishonest. While that may be your perception of gun owning Americans, the reality is vastly different.

    The folks who stated they would "shoot first and ask later" are hopefully overstating for the sake of discussion but you need to understand that Americans have an inherent right to privacy and protection of property and we hold that right as sacred. Think of it this way, you are sleeping and awakened by the sound of a window being broken or a door being smashed open, you investigate and see someone climbing in the window or walking through your home. It is a reasonable presumption that the person who broke that window or smashed that door is uninvited and unwelcome and has no lawful purpose for being in your home. They are automatically criminals solely by breaking your window and smashing your door open as that is willful destruction of personal property. Given Americans have an inherent right to privacy and protection of property, and given the person willfully destroyed your property, it is also a reasonable presumption that the person intends to do you and your family harm. In this instance, it is reasonable to "shoot first and ask later" rather than wait for the criminal to openly demonstrate their intentions possibly resulting in your or your families injury or death. Most Americans do not live with a victim mentality and most Americans would choose to defend themselves and their family rather than be a victim.

    Reynod said:
    Like the Canadians we tend to have a much more relaxed view where in the US you tend to be highly suspicious and paranoid about anything you perceive as impinging upon your personal liberty or free will.
    Of course Americans are highly suspicious and paranoid about anything that infringes our personal liberty. Given that America was based on the tenets of freedom, liberty, and the uninhibited pursuit thereof; personal liberty and freedom is something to to be held sacred and closely guarded from anyone or anything that seeks to take that away. I'm sure that if the Australian or Canadian Constitutions were written as documents that limited the powers of government instead of documents that give power to the government to grant rights to the people, your perspective and opinion of American culture would be very different.

    Reynod said:
    This I find hard to understand as from my perspective the US looks like a free for all 24/7 circus where the performers are shooting kids in the crowd while doing acrobatics on the high wire ... and the lions and the bears are roaming freely through the crowd ... taking bites out of the audience as well.

    From where I stand you have so much free will this has caused the country to fall into chaos on so many levels.
    On some levels America is a free for all. But not a wild west free for all with people running around with a six-gun strapped to their leg dispensing vigilantly justice on a whim. America is a free for all in the sense that the individual is free to pursue their personal interests uninhibited by government and limited only by the laws the people choose to govern themselves by. America is a free for all in the sense that you can engage in commerce, speak, worship, and otherwise conduct yourself in any manner so long that does not infringe on the rights of other Americans to do the same. The notion that Americans have too much free will or freedom is a point of view only seen from someone who grew up in a society and culture or with the belief that government grants the people their rights, that government mandates responsibility, and where government controls most aspects of that society and culture.

    Reynod said:
    The obsession in the US about individual success being more important than community values is at the heart of the matter.
    This line of thinking is also at the heart of socialism and is a tremendous misperception of America on your part. Take team sports for example; there may be one or two players that individually achieve more than other players on the team, but the fact remains they are part of a team and their individual success is celebrated by the entire team. If anything, it is individual success that builds a community and it is the individual successes of each member within the community that makes the community stronger. Do not think for a moment just because Americans strive for individual achievement that it in any way subjugates the community as a whole. Just go into any given neighborhood in any major U.S. city; you can not tell someone living in Manhattan that there is no sense on community, you can not go into Hoboken and tell them they is no sense of community, you can not go into Houston and tell them they have no sense of community, and I defy you to walk into Aurora Colorado and tell them they have no sense of community.
  39. chunkymonster said:
    The notion that gun owners are somehow responsible to reduce the number of gun deaths is just ridiculous. Responsible and legal gun owners already do their part to reduce the number of gun deaths by following the law and being responsible gun owners. To imply responsible and legal gun owners should be doing more than that ignores the criminal and evil intentions.


    Im not asking what gun owners would do to lower gun deaths lol. Im asking whats the solution? How can a gun owning society be safe if any unhinged individual can go and get guns and ammo quickly and without a background check? I know you talk about NJ, but Im not in NJ and evidently CO has very lax laws concerning buying a gun. I was with a cousin a few months ago who went into a gun shop and walked out with a 38 special.

    Did you know that we have almost the same amount of gun murders as Mexico?

    Anectdotally I had a friend fall asleep drunk in a car during a Vermont winter after a party. A while later he realized he was freezing and went to go back inside the house. In his drunken stupor he went to the house next door and broke through the front door (I think he was just blackout drunk and confused, no one is still sure why he broke the door trying to get in), broke the lock off trying to get in. Once inside he vomited all over his clothes stripped down (Completely naked) and went to sleep on the couch. The owner called the cops and went to go confront the stranger in his living room. After freaking out he ran out the back door (Destroying the door and the locks) and was captured by police naked during winter in the backyard of a strangers house.

    No charges or anything he just had to pay for damages, it would have been a different story if someone shot him.....
  40. riser said:
    http://www.knoxnews.com/news/2012/jul/02/man-shoots-self-in-face-at-coal-creek-armory/?comments_id=2262724

    That's the write up in it. I had to give 2.5 hours of written and recorded speeches, answer what firearms I was shooting and the whole scenario as I saw it. After about 2 hours they finally reviewed the range footage and let us go. I was the only person who really saw anything.

    I could have stuck three fingers side by side into the gaping hole in his face. At first I thought the gun had recoiled and hit him in the face.. but after half a second I realiezd he shot himself. I thought he was dead.. doing his death throes and all but it had to take some brain damage from that shock.

    He was having issues with his wife and his mother in law.. Now he's going to be a mute, considered mentally unstable, and still have to deal with the wife and inlaws. If you're going to do it, do it right with a shotgun.

    I was close enough that if he put his arm out and I put my arm out, we'd be touching each other. I dislike going to the range alone.. what bothered me the most is that I had just shot the last of my rounds in my firearm. It was sitting there ready to be reloaded when he did it. He could have easily turned and shot someone else first. Three seconds earlier I was walking behind him from a trash can tossing a target and empty box.


    Have you had any nightmares or dreams about it yet?

    Seems like it would be something that would long term bother you.

    I had to identify one of my friends in the morgue once, the coroner said, "Are you ready? I said Yes." and he pulled back the sheet and I looked at the slab of meat on the table, because that's all she was at that point as there was no life present in her body, and I wasn't ready for what I saw!

    My mind took a mental snapshot, and I saw that image in my mind thousands of times, played over and over.

    So this guy is still alive, but what kind of life is before him?
  41. No nightmares at all. I lack empathy for others, especially when I don't know them. :)

    About four days after it happened, a girl at my apartment asked me how I was sleeping. I gave her a weird look and said fine.. not even putting to two together. It took me a minute to even remember what had happened earlier.

    In all honesty, I stopped counting how many of my friends died growing up. The first committed suicide in 6th grade. I'm now just over 30 years old and I can count past 20 friends who have died from disease, suicide, murders, and accidents. In the recent storms that hit the midwest, one of my friends from high school who I haven't talked to since the late 90s was killed when a tree fell on his car as he was driving. That was what.. two weeks ago? Life is short.
  42. I think every gun nut should be forced to see what riser has experienced ... might put some of them off their obsession with death.

    If you want to dance with the tiger prepared to get bitten or clawed.
  43. 4Ryan6 said:
    Dude what an experience to witness!

    I'm at a loss for words riser! Ry
    The wrong people have guns today which has to be stopped right away.This is one prime example you quote.
  44. I think they should ban presctiptions, they kill more than anything
    Wait, then we need to regulate prescriptions
    Wait, we need tighter regulations on prescriptions
    Wait, its those other people who insist on having their prescriptions thats the proble
    Its the AMA's fault
    Ruining and running the country
    Damn privateers
  45. musical marv said:
    The wrong people have guns today which has to be stopped right away.This is one prime example you quote.


    With all due respect Marv, How do you think that could be accomplished?

    Criminals do not get their weapons through legal channels in the first place?

    Legal gun owners that loose their minds either temporarily or permanent are not predictable events?

    So how do you propose it be accomplished?

    Do you realize how much money is invested in guns across the entire United States, and just how many guns we're actually talking about here?

    I live out in the country 30 minute response time from the nearest Police facility, I have a Baby Desert Eagle 45ACP within hand reach at this very minute, anyone kicking in my front or rear door is not coming in my house to have tea and crumpets, but they'll be leaving in a body bag.

    The weapons I have are for the defense of my home and family, I am not a hunter and never bought any of my weapons for hunting they are for home defense, I don't want to have to live with shooting someone, but if they enter my home, thanks to Uncle Sam's training I will not miss my target.

    I live in an area that gangs have broken into innocent peoples homes and shot and killed the home owners, do you really think I would allow that in my own home, would you?
  46. chunkymonster said:
    It's obvious you do not live in New Jersey.

    On the other hand, there is Vermont:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

    Yet you do not hear of mass shootings from there. Maybe, like the Swiss, Vermonters are just more highly evolved.

    Another observation - the AR15 is not an assault rifle. Assault rifles are automatic weapons.

    Yet another observation - The U.S. military does not use drum magazines. They are very unreliable.
  47. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    Liberal logic 101

    Banning clawed hammers will stop crazy people from killing people with clawed hammers.


    With all due respect killing 12 people and injuring 58 with only a clawed hammer would be impressive. You cant accidentally overstab someone smash through 3 walls and kill the neighbor down the street.

    Anonymous said:
    On the other hand, there is Vermont:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_Vermont

    Yet you do not hear of mass shootings from there. Maybe, like the Swiss, Vermonters are just more highly evolved.



    Vermont and most New England states arent densely populated enough to cause any trouble. We have the second lowest gun homicide rate besides NH, and per capita we own more guns than Texas. My feeling is if there were problems with the system the state would fix it, gun violence is low there is currently no reason to change anything. Or maybe its all the pot smoking liberals........Or our socialist senator, who was actually at capital hill yesterday trying to strike down citizens united lol.

    Either way if other states (Or countries, essentially) have problems with guns they need to change something or identify the problem.
  48. Oldmangamer_73 said:
    It's a people and cultural problem, not an inanimate object problem. Banning an inanimate object will not change a peoples' or person's behavior.


    No but putting child safety locks on the knife drawer keeps kids alive until they know better than trying to "shave" with a steak knife because they "saw it in a movie".

    Im not sure what would have worked for CO, but whatever laws are in effect over there did not protect those people.
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