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Greenland is melting, 50ft waves?

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July 26, 2012 2:01:36 AM

Well, just trying to be like the media, and sensationalise.
This happens every 150 years, its not unpresidented, no great mysteries.
So, the headings on all these reports should have read, once again, Greenlands ice sheet melts, but then again, you wont get hits
July 26, 2012 2:06:57 AM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Well, just trying to be like the media, and sensationalise.
This happens every 150 years, its not unpresidented, no great mysteries.
So, the headings on all these reports should have read, once again, Greenlands ice sheet melts, but then again, you wont get hits


Well, if the Sun keeps doing what it's doing the water may very well rise.
July 26, 2012 2:15:37 AM

As it could have since the water was lower, every 150 years.
I guess trying to nip this in the bud as business as usual wont be easy.
If a tree falls in the forest, does it make any sound when no ones around?
If weve never had these observations, is this why it didnt happen?

Understanding the world around us shouldnt push us in new directions unless youre certain it needs to be done.
Right now, thats the question, and bringing up common occurances is not enough to sway the truth
July 26, 2012 2:28:58 AM

The real question is: does correlation equal causation?
July 26, 2012 3:42:09 AM

dogman_1234 said:
The real question is: does correlation equal causation?


No, it doesn't.
July 26, 2012 5:37:29 AM

Oldmangamer_73 said:
No, it doesn't.

Then you have just solved the issue of global warming. Congratulations!

Here is your Nobel Prize for Science.

What we are observing as a global temperature crisis is a normal evolutionary system of a cycling universe. I believe that nature has been made to go through a series of cycles to retain equilibrium. Without such changes, the universe will not have the capabilities to retain property, or life in that case. God has made weird things we cannot explain, here is one of them.

I am all for cleaning up our environment, I am not an environmentalist. I am not a scientist. I am an average Joe who see's the beauty God has made. That too hard to state as fact? No? Then your own opinions are also invalid.

We will see a warming trend for a long time. I speculate between 2030-2050 we will see a plateau. After that, brace yourselves...we will get cold! :p 
July 26, 2012 3:58:36 PM

Ok Nostradamus ... we all feel better now.

You just keep digging for peanuts out there on the farm and keep Dorothy away from the twister.

:) 
July 26, 2012 4:10:17 PM

dogman_1234 said:

God has made weird things we cannot explain, here is one of them.

I am all for cleaning up our environment, I am not an environmentalist. I am not a scientist. I am an average Joe who see's the beauty God has made. That too hard to state as fact? No? Then your own opinions are also invalid.


Of course! Its the hand of God in action and therefore we are wasting our time, amazing insight!
July 26, 2012 5:18:27 PM

Well, being all in, as in poker, if you dont have the winning hand, you lose more, if God doesnt exist, youve lost little, and hopefully just lived an enlightened life benefitting mankind
July 26, 2012 5:30:02 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Well, being all in, as in poker, if you dont have the winning hand, you lose more, if God doesnt exist, youve lost little, and hopefully just lived an enlightened life benefitting mankind


What if you devoted your life to something that doesn't exist?
July 26, 2012 5:41:33 PM

Small loss, as in, if there is no God, and you are dead, youll never know
July 26, 2012 9:20:48 PM

johnsonma said:
Of course! Its the hand of God in action and therefore we are wasting our time, amazing insight!

:pfff: 
I find your lack of faith disturbing.

-Darth Vader
July 26, 2012 10:08:37 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
Small loss, as in, if there is no God, and you are dead, youll never know


I can understand your view but what if you view it this way? A human life spent devoting oneself to a God that doesn't exist is a waste of a life in that they did nothing to contribute to the progression of the human race. What if the next Einstein devoted his life to religion instead of science? Isn't that a terrible loss in that their potential was wasted and the loss on humanity as a whole?
July 26, 2012 10:31:33 PM

If he lived a happy life, followed his religion, which may have required to help the poor or the infirm, treat others like you yourself would like to be treated, and was not only successful in this, but also in his endeavors, all the while giving credit to his creator, then, am I missing something?
In my experience and readings, God helps, not hinders, and if this wasnr so, and there were no God, then surely theres no loss
July 27, 2012 2:05:18 AM

johnsonma said:
I can understand your view but what if you view it this way? A human life spent devoting oneself to a God that doesn't exist is a waste of a life in that they did nothing to contribute to the progression of the human race. What if the next Einstein devoted his life to religion instead of science? Isn't that a terrible loss in that their potential was wasted and the loss on humanity as a whole?

Funny, many people who contributed to science and the advancement of the human race believed in a deity.

Need I go into their names? Even some were killed for saying the truth of what God had made.
July 27, 2012 12:08:46 PM

Do you believe in a heaven and hell? Also, do you think people from other religions are going to hell?
July 27, 2012 2:42:07 PM

wanamingo said:
Do you believe in a heaven and hell? Also, do you think people from other religions are going to hell?

Yes, I believe in both heaven and a hell.

That is not up to me. I am not the judge, jury and executioner.

The Christian faith states that redemption of a soul is through the Lord Jesus Christ, who has died for all...even those of who are of a different theological perspective. Believe the lord is the Messiah, who has died for you; he is the Lord your God, whom loves you dearly.

Again, it is not my place to tell you who will enter heaven and who will rest in hell.
July 27, 2012 2:52:30 PM

dogman_1234 said:
Yes, I believe in both heaven and a hell.

That is not up to me. I am not the judge, jury and executioner.

The Christian faith states that redemption of a soul is through the Lord Jesus Christ, who has died for all...even those of who are of a different theological perspective. Believe the lord is the Messiah, who has died for you; he is the Lord your God, whom loves you dearly.

Again, it is not my place to tell you who will enter heaven and who will rest in hell.


Then would God reject everyone that didnt accept JC as their lord and savior, and send them to eternal damnation in hell?

Is there wiggle room?
July 27, 2012 2:57:47 PM

JAYDEEJOHN said:
If he lived a happy life, followed his religion, which may have required to help the poor or the infirm, treat others like you yourself would like to be treated, and was not only successful in this, but also in his endeavors, all the while giving credit to his creator, then, am I missing something?
In my experience and readings, God helps, not hinders, and if this wasnr so, and there were no God, then surely theres no loss


Why do you assume he had a happy life, or that he helped the poor or the infirm. Why do you think that he treated others well and was successful? You are missing something huge JDJ, the fact that just because this man was pious does not mean he did any of these things. What if the entire time he was following this religion he felt like he was wasting his life, what if he had no choice but to follow it because of those around him? The fact that you assume he lived a happy life and all those other assumptions only goes to show how closed your mind is to this subject.
July 27, 2012 3:00:03 PM

dogman_1234 said:
Funny, many people who contributed to science and the advancement of the human race believed in a deity.

Need I go into their names? Even some were killed for saying the truth of what God had made.


Funny, how when they reached the pinnacle of their respective fields and were faced with the unexplainable, they deferred to God just as you did.
July 27, 2012 3:36:11 PM

Wow! This thread has diverged FAR from the what the title suggests...

Anyway, some interesting info regarding the Greenland ice sheets...
- During the age of the dinosaurs up until 65 million years ago, carbon dioxide levels and temperatures were higher, and mean annual temperature were estimated to have exceeded 14C, with evidence of crocodile-like creatures at Greenland latitudes.
- ice sheets started to form on Greenland...at least 38 million years ago
- Greenland ice cores appear to have recorded quite clearly a pattern of climate oscillations over periods of thousands of years
- for the next hundred years it appears the Greenland ice sheet will continue to shrink in response to climate changes

Seems to me that the Greenland ice sheets are following some sort of pattern of shrinking and growing over the past several thousands of years.
July 27, 2012 4:18:18 PM

johnsonma said:
Why do you assume he had a happy life, or that he helped the poor or the infirm. Why do you think that he treated others well and was successful? You are missing something huge JDJ, the fact that just because this man was pious does not mean he did any of these things. What if the entire time he was following this religion he felt like he was wasting his life, what if he had no choice but to follow it because of those around him? The fact that you assume he lived a happy life and all those other assumptions only goes to show how closed your mind is to this subject.

OK, first word if, whos assuming here?
Also, if, if his religion calls for him to do the things I said, helping the poor etc

Now, if he didnt really believe, and he didnt follow his religion, then possibly he could be unhappy.
If he had helped the poor, satisfaction and joy is there for him, or again, he isnt truly putting his heart into his religion.
If he is still unsatisfied doing these things, and those things do not lift his heart, then he may as well be an atheist.

@ chunky,
Exactly, and is why this made up, over the top announcement, using words such as unprecedented etc is nothing more than a poor attempt at grabbing headline, demeans our science, our capabilities and our current understanding and knowledge or what we already know, all in the name of money, and politics
July 27, 2012 11:10:51 PM

wanamingo said:
Then would God reject everyone that didn't accept JC as their lord and savior, and send them to eternal damnation in hell?

Is there wiggle room?

I cannot be too sure if there is wiggle room. I am not the judge here. Reefer to God for any questions. ds.

The theology is that those who chose not to accept Him, have left themselves in the dark. We are already dead,( spiritually and physically,) and through Christ who conquered death had given those who accept Him, life. We are doomed to our sins we have committed. It is not that God is a jerk, far from it. It is the fact that we are creatures who fixate on ourselves more than necessary that on what the Lord wants us to do...Love one another and Him.

That is Christs message: Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength; love your neigbour as yourself.

Waling 400,000 miles on broken glass wont do it...sorry. Praying 40 hail mary's, 40 our fathers, and 20 glory be's wont as well. Baptizing yourself for personal salvation wont work either.

We have limits. Those limits are placed upon ourselves. We have the capability to do many things...we are too stupid to not break those barriers we built. God did not make the barriers. If so, science would not exist. We would not have the transistor...we would not be communicating.

If you say I have no proof of His existence...great news! Faith requires no PH.D in anything. My place is to tell you the great news...not force it down yoru throat. If you feel I have not done enough...I have failed you.

If you need further answers, there are many who will have it. Ask, and you shall receive! God will not withhold you...the lottery is a toss up though...sorry. :??: 
July 27, 2012 11:15:03 PM

johnsonma said:
Funny, how when they reached the pinnacle of their respective fields and were faced with the unexplainable, they deferred to God just as you did.

You mean many humbly refer to God as who has given the truthful perspective to them?
Oldmangamer_73 said:
"God loves us dearly"

I have a problem with that. My problem could not be better articulated than in the first 1:20 of this vid.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

He does. There is too much crap we deal with in this world that we do not see it.
Ever had a parent watch you struggle? It was painful; however, did you learn something?
Ever had someone die in you life. Too much for the human mind to process.
Ever has a question eating you up...?

There is too much for us to handle in this world. Live and learn. Find solace in each other. Find someone in pain and comfort them. There is where you will find God's love.
July 28, 2012 1:46:11 AM

wanamingo said:
Then would God reject everyone that didnt accept JD as their lord and savior, and send them to eternal damnation in hell?

Is there wiggle room?



Corrected.

:) 
July 28, 2012 6:05:04 AM

Youre evile, and I banish you to the land of no components
July 28, 2012 11:37:23 AM

Your sending me to AppleLand??

July 30, 2012 1:21:46 PM

Reynod said:
Your sending me to AppleLand??


Thou shalt be forced to be a "Genius" for no less than eternity.
July 30, 2012 1:23:09 PM

Conversion of a climate skeptic

CALL me a converted skeptic. Three years ago I identified problems in previous climate studies that, in my mind, threw doubt on the very existence of global warming. Last year, following an intensive research effort involving a dozen scientists, I concluded that global warming was real and that the prior estimates of the rate of warming were correct. I’m now going a step further: Humans are almost entirely the cause.

My total turnaround, in such a short time, is the result of careful and objective analysis by the Berkeley Earth Surface Temperature project, which I founded with my daughter Elizabeth. Our results show that the average temperature of the earth’s land has risen by two and a half degrees Fahrenheit over the past 250 years, including an increase of one and a half degrees over the most recent 50 years. Moreover, it appears likely that essentially all of this increase results from the human emission of greenhouse gases.

These findings are stronger than those of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the United Nations group that defines the scientific and diplomatic consensus on global warming. In its 2007 report, the I.P.C.C. concluded only that most of the warming of the prior 50 years could be attributed to humans. It was possible, according to the I.P.C.C. consensus statement, that the warming before 1956 could be because of changes in solar activity, and that even a substantial part of the more recent warming could be natural.

Our Berkeley Earth approach used sophisticated statistical methods developed largely by our lead scientist, Robert Rohde, which allowed us to determine earth land temperature much further back in time. We carefully studied issues raised by skeptics: biases from urban heating (we duplicated our results using rural data alone), from data selection (prior groups selected fewer than 20 percent of the available temperature stations; we used virtually 100 percent), from poor station quality (we separately analyzed good stations and poor ones) and from human intervention and data adjustment (our work is completely automated and hands-off). In our papers we demonstrate that none of these potentially troublesome effects unduly biased our conclusions.

The historic temperature pattern we observed has abrupt dips that match the emissions of known explosive volcanic eruptions; the particulates from such events reflect sunlight, make for beautiful sunsets and cool the earth’s surface for a few years. There are small, rapid variations attributable to El Niño and other ocean currents such as the Gulf Stream; because of such oscillations, the “flattening” of the recent temperature rise that some people claim is not, in our view, statistically significant. What has caused the gradual but systematic rise of two and a half degrees? We tried fitting the shape to simple math functions (exponentials, polynomials), to solar activity and even to rising functions like world population. By far the best match was to the record of atmospheric carbon dioxide, measured from atmospheric samples and air trapped in polar ice.

Just as important, our record is long enough that we could search for the fingerprint of solar variability, based on the historical record of sunspots. That fingerprint is absent. Although the I.P.C.C. allowed for the possibility that variations in sunlight could have ended the “Little Ice Age,” a period of cooling from the 14th century to about 1850, our data argues strongly that the temperature rise of the past 250 years cannot be attributed to solar changes. This conclusion is, in retrospect, not too surprising; we’ve learned from satellite measurements that solar activity changes the brightness of the sun very little.

How definite is the attribution to humans? The carbon dioxide curve gives a better match than anything else we’ve tried. Its magnitude is consistent with the calculated greenhouse effect — extra warming from trapped heat radiation. These facts don’t prove causality and they shouldn’t end skepticism, but they raise the bar: to be considered seriously, an alternative explanation must match the data at least as well as carbon dioxide does. Adding methane, a second greenhouse gas, to our analysis doesn’t change the results. Moreover, our analysis does not depend on large, complex global climate models, the huge computer programs that are notorious for their hidden assumptions and adjustable parameters. Our result is based simply on the close agreement between the shape of the observed temperature rise and the known greenhouse gas increase.
July 30, 2012 2:33:01 PM

dogman_1234 said:
You mean many humbly refer to God as who has given the truthful perspective to them?


Truthful perspective? No. Limited their perspective? Yes.
July 30, 2012 3:02:00 PM

Should we be starting on the ark yet?

What do we tell the gay animals this time?

These are important questions ...

How many external HDD's can I take?

July 30, 2012 3:02:31 PM

Ok I have the plans ... please provide me a metric equivalent for the cubit and I'll get started.

July 30, 2012 3:10:26 PM

Reynod said:
Ok I have the plans ... please provide me a metric equivalent for the cubit and I'll get started.


According to google:

1 cubit = 45.72 centimeters or 18 inches.

Ill bring two kegs of every beer known to man, because if we just take toms forum folks the beer will be necessary to repopulate.
July 30, 2012 3:56:34 PM

How many laptop batteries do I need for 40 days and 40 nights ... or is it longer?

Would baby Jesus cry If I don't take any Ewoks on the Ark?
July 30, 2012 4:59:26 PM

Just bring solar cells, several laptops and make sure they have DOOM installed on them.

All are welcome to join on the ark. Those who stay behind...well, their fault. Heck,we have DOOM!
July 30, 2012 5:12:20 PM

Reynod said:
How many laptop batteries do I need for 40 days and 40 nights ... or is it longer?

Would baby Jesus cry If I don't take any Ewoks on the Ark?


!