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Next Gen consoles and MAME Emulation..

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  • Next Generation
  • Games
  • Emulation
  • Video Games
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Anonymous
May 29, 2005 2:30:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Hi all

Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any comments on
the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?

chjeers

tim

More about : gen consoles mame emulation

May 29, 2005 2:30:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Tim :\ wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any comments on
> the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
> the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?
>
> chjeers
>
> tim
>
>

Tim,
you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.

--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 2:51:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR wrote on 29. May 2005:
>
> Tim :\ wrote:
>> Hi all
>> Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any
>> comments on
>> the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
>> the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?
>> chjeers
>> tim
>>
>
> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.

True.
--
By(e) Andreas
U w4nt r0meZ? <http://www.lazarus.org.uk/&gt;
Old school arcade classics at http://www.tombstones.org.uk/~ankman/
Linux without installation? http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
OE user? Ease the pain and try the better newsreader http://xnews.newsguy.com/
Registered as user #289125 with the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/
Related resources
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 5:03:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in news:p Qdme.131$cN2.19
@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net:

> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will be
some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.


> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>

A good ol' fashioned PC in a big ol' cabinet with fag burns and flashing
lights you mean :) 


--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."
Anonymous
May 29, 2005 7:51:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR a écrit :
>
> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.
>
> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>

As long as you'll be able to read a game on a console, you'll be able to
read the program you want by one way or another.

This is as dumb as trying to prevent the copy of CD audio while keeping
a way to be able to listen to it.

--
Laurent Raufaste
analogue @ http://www.glop.org/
Votez OUI !
May 30, 2005 10:39:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Alex Devlin wrote:
Snipped

> Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
> consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will be
> some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.

I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on earth
is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play MAME, when
the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

>>Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
>>nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>>
>
>
> A good ol' fashioned PC in a big ol' cabinet with fag burns and flashing
> lights you mean :) 


Damn straight!


--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
May 30, 2005 10:40:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
Snipped
> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

Whats the point tho'?

>>Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
>>nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>
>
> True.

:-)

--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
May 30, 2005 10:42:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

analogue wrote:
Snipped


> As long as you'll be able to read a game on a console, you'll be able to
> read the program you want by one way or another.

We'll see....

> This is as dumb as trying to prevent the copy of CD audio while keeping
> a way to be able to listen to it.
>

True
--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 11:10:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:41:46 GMT, MCR
<mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote:

>MCR
>MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
>documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

What's decryping then mate ? ;-)
May 30, 2005 11:15:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> Snipped
>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

> Whats the point tho'?

A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

--
David
You are scrupulously honest, frank, and straightforward. Therefore you
have few friends.
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 11:18:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in
news:w5Jme.6035$rf4.569@newsfe5-win.ntli.net:

>> Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
>> consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will
>> be some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.
>
> I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on
> earth is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play
> MAME, when
> the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

Nobody will buy a next gen console to 'just' play mame. They'll buy it
for the same reason eveyone else will, to play the games being released
on it.

But when you have one and someone mentions that "you can play mame on
that" then some will want to do so.

You are right, in the sense that no-one would probably buy a next gen
console just for mame playing.

But if something can be adapted to do things it's not meant to,
specially something owned by Microsoft, you can bet that someone will
find a way to do so.

Remember WinXP was going to stop software piracy because you had to
'activate' it...? ;) 

--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 11:22:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

"MCR" <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message news:w5Jme.6035

> I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on earth
> is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play MAME, when
> the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

It's not "just to play mame"...mame is just 1 of the benefits. Playing the
other emulators (nes, snes, etc.) would also be a reason along with all the
other benfits of mod chips (playing burned games, copyright free movies,
etc.). The fact that it's compact and you can bring with you on trips or to
your neighbor's house is another (I don't imagine people lugging around
their pc, monitor, and keyboard with them wherever they go).

As for not being able to be cracked is ridiculous. Every system is
crackable. Give the community a matter of months.
Anonymous
May 30, 2005 11:26:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in news:cn4sm2x0a2.ln2
@news.gates_of_hell.com:

> It totally depends on what you want it to do but in a few years the
> power of the console will dwarf the power of the PC, so while you are
> skipping frames on NBA Jam we will be MAMEing the whole collection at
> full speed on our consoles ;P~
>
> Not really, just because of the nature of MAME but Doom on the Console
> will eventually kill Doom on the PC.

I doubt that it will.

Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
always be faster and more pwerful.

--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."
May 31, 2005 12:45:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Alex Devlin wrote in alt.games.mame:
> SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in news:cn4sm2x0a2.ln2
> @news.gates_of_hell.com:

>> It totally depends on what you want it to do but in a few years the
>> power of the console will dwarf the power of the PC, so while you are
>> skipping frames on NBA Jam we will be MAMEing the whole collection at
>> full speed on our consoles ;P~

>> Not really, just because of the nature of MAME but Doom on the Console
>> will eventually kill Doom on the PC.

> I doubt that it will.

Just read an article to the contrary.

> Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
> certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
> more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
deal with.

> Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
> always be faster and more pwerful.

Only time will tell.

--
David
The enemy diversion you're ignoring is their main attack
-- Murphy's Military Laws n°79
May 31, 2005 3:37:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:

> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
> deal with.

Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
the average enthusiast to program for?
Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy ;) 

Mike
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 4:03:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>
> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> Snipped
>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>
>> Whats the point tho'?
>
> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

That's the point. :-)
--
By(e) Andreas
U w4nt r0meZ? <http://www.lazarus.org.uk/&gt;
Old school arcade classics at http://www.tombstones.org.uk/~ankman/
Linux without installation? http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
OE user? Ease the pain and try the better newsreader http://xnews.newsguy.com/
Registered as user #289125 with the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 7:56:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
were:
> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> Snipped
>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>> Whats the point tho'?
> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

If I just built up a 400mhz for $25, I'm pretty sure can easily do a 733
for less than $150
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 11:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On 2005-05-30, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
> deal with.

Which makes them really, really bad for mame which needs
single-threaded cpu aplenty and doesn't care about what the gpu can do
outside of pure blitting.

OG.
May 31, 2005 4:15:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Mike wrote in alt.games.mame:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:

>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
>> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
>> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
>> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
>> deal with.

> Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
> nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
> the average enthusiast to program for?
> Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy ;) 

Busted ;) 

--
David
"But don't you worry, its for a cause -- feeding global corporations' paws."
May 31, 2005 7:20:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Olivier Galibert Wrote in alt.games.mame:

> On 2005-05-30, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to
>> perform a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more
>> powerful and specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not
>> to mention that optimization for a platform that will not have a
>> variety of hardware to deal with.
>
> Which makes them really, really bad for mame which needs
> single-threaded cpu aplenty and doesn't care about what the gpu
> can do outside of pure blitting.
>
> OG.
>
>

Yeah, I was just bustin em. I basically said that here:

Message-ID: <cn4sm2x0a2.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com>

--
David
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 10:52:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On 2005-05-31, Andreas Kohlbach <ankman@email.com> wrote:

> SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>
>> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?
>
> That's the point. :-)

Hmm, my bare cab cost 50 quid, PC cost me 25, ipac cost me 25, so
that's about 100 quid, which is about the same as an xbox but I get a
full cabinet!

Monitor cost me 150 quid (20" LCD that rotates through 90 degrees) but
previous CRT monitor only cost me 30 quid.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert
June 1, 2005 3:16:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

PRoToCoL wrote:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:41:46 GMT, MCR
> <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>MCR
>>MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
>>documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
>
>
> What's decryping then mate ? ;-)
>
>

Ahem... :-D
June 2, 2005 1:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 00:03:53 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ankman@email.com> wrote:

>SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>>
>> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> Snipped
>>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>>
>>> Whats the point tho'?
>>
>> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?
>
>That's the point. :-)

Eh, those who know how to mod an XBox probably have at least one spare
P3 around the house anyway, so it's really just for bragging rights.
Is there really a practical value to running a web and email server on
a homebrew Xbox server?

Now, if someone can mod the XBox 360 so that I can run a PPC-based OS
on it, I'll be interested :) 
June 2, 2005 3:51:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:26:03 GMT, Alex Devlin
<zanderXXXink@gmailXXX.com> wrote:

>I doubt that it will.
>
>Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
>certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
>more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

True, but lately I've been thinking this is a losing proposition for
the gamer. As a long-time PC gamer I can remember a time when faster
processors and bigger memory literally meant better games. I don't
believe that trend has continued. There are some exceptions.

I feel that most current-gen games offer little more than what
previous-gen games did, all while taxing the hardware even more.
Console development generally gets more efficient as the console
approaches its end of cycle, but it seems like PC development never
gets more efficient because there's no incentive as upgrades are
always six months away.

>Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
>always be faster and more pwerful.

I don't think PC speed and power is a relevent measure anymore because
there is so little evolution on the software side in terms of design
and innovtion to match the advances coming on the hardware side. With
each new iteration of CPU and RAM, operating systems and software
applications will grow fatter to soak up all that extra performance
like a sponge. Ultimately, the ratio of total performance to available
performance remains about the same or somewhat better.

Anthony
June 2, 2005 3:54:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:37:51 GMT, Mike <mdh@deadspam.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:
>
>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
>> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
>> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
>> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
>> deal with.
>
>Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
>nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
>the average enthusiast to program for?
>Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy ;) 
>
>Mike

As I read yours and Sinner's comment I couldn't help but to think of
the current Macintosh computer. Can we find parallels in the Mac here?
The nature of development on the Mac used to be as you say for
consoles. I don't know if Apple has stopped pinning developers under
their thumb, so maybe this isn't true anymore.

Anthony
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 8:01:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

"Anthony" <anthony@shirashi.org> wrote in message
news:kars91hl9oudvo4b0vp21s863qlhpura4m@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:26:03 GMT, Alex Devlin
> <zanderXXXink@gmailXXX.com> wrote:
>
> >I doubt that it will.
> >
> >Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
> >certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics
power,
> >more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.
>
> True, but lately I've been thinking this is a losing proposition for
> the gamer. As a long-time PC gamer I can remember a time when faster
> processors and bigger memory literally meant better games. I don't
> believe that trend has continued. There are some exceptions.
>
The problem isn't the PCs, but the cost of making Bigger and better games.
The cost has been around $50us for quite a while. If you want to pay more
for the games, they will make the games better than, it really comes down
to cost of the game, which can run millions of dollars today.

> I feel that most current-gen games offer little more than what
> previous-gen games did, all while taxing the hardware even more.
> Console development generally gets more efficient as the console
> approaches its end of cycle, but it seems like PC development never
> gets more efficient because there's no incentive as upgrades are
> always six months away.
>
When you develop for a closed system like a console, you have to push every
drop of power of it, just to stand out from the crowd. PCs games have
gotten alot better, the problem is you looking at it the wrong way. PC
games AWAYS run at higher resolution that console games, and people want
run the new games at those higher resolutions, so PC games don't seem to
get any better.

> >Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs
will
> >always be faster and more pwerful.
>
Really? This current crop of console maybe the first to out perform PCs,
but that may not even last until the consoles are released. The PSX was
about a 486 33MHz in speed, the XBox ran a 733MHz celeron. If you want to
beleive all the BS the companies are spewing, I have a bridge you will want
to buy.
Remember the Emotion chip in the PS2 and the PS2 was going to Toy Story
graphics real time, none of that happen. Right now, we have no idea
what the next gen console can or can't do, since noone has access to REAL
finalize hardware.

> I don't think PC speed and power is a relevent measure anymore because
> there is so little evolution on the software side in terms of design
> and innovtion to match the advances coming on the hardware side. With
> each new iteration of CPU and RAM, operating systems and software
> applications will grow fatter to soak up all that extra performance
> like a sponge. Ultimately, the ratio of total performance to available
> performance remains about the same or somewhat better.
>
Software always evolves, it does it at a different rate on the PC verses
consoles. The problem is PC speeds increases have slowed way down, from
what it was before. Your right, applications and games grow fatter, but
the new Consoles have 256Megs or more, thats a jump from 64Megs or so the
current ones have....
Just take look at http://www.ageia.com/ and the new Physics Processing Unit,
they even have a demo, the demo doesn't like my computer but my friend says
it really great. The software SDK will be in the next gen consoles, the
hardware side should be out for PCs next year.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:47:25 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

"Anthony" <anthony@shirashi.org> wrote in message
> Eh, those who know how to mod an XBox probably have at least one spare
> P3 around the house anyway, so it's really just for bragging rights.
> Is there really a practical value to running a web and email server on
> a homebrew Xbox server?

so again. For < $200 you have something that
1) plays backed up xbox games
2) plays mame, nes, snes, n64, sega genesis
3) streams music, pictures, and videos from my pc
4) hooks directly up to component inputs on my tv
5) is portable and can be taken and hooked up easily at your friends house
June 3, 2005 4:37:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:47:25 GMT, "bbodin" <nospam!bbodin@airmail.net>
wrote:

>"Anthony" <anthony@shirashi.org> wrote in message
>> Eh, those who know how to mod an XBox probably have at least one spare
>> P3 around the house anyway, so it's really just for bragging rights.
>> Is there really a practical value to running a web and email server on
>> a homebrew Xbox server?
>
>so again. For < $200 you have something that
>1) plays backed up xbox games
>2) plays mame, nes, snes, n64, sega genesis
>3) streams music, pictures, and videos from my pc
>4) hooks directly up to component inputs on my tv
>5) is portable and can be taken and hooked up easily at your friends house

Yeah okay :) 

Maybe I ought to invest in a modchip soon so I can try out #2 on my
XBox.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 10:11:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Anthony's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
were:
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 19:47:25 GMT, "bbodin" <nospam!bbodin@airmail.net>
> wrote:
>>2) plays mame, nes, snes, n64, sega genesis
> Maybe I ought to invest in a modchip soon so I can try out #2 on my
> XBox.

I thought there was a modchipless way to do that?
June 3, 2005 10:56:17 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Alex Devlin Wrote in alt.games.mame:

> SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in
> news:cn4sm2x0a2.ln2 @news.gates_of_hell.com:
>
>> It totally depends on what you want it to do but in a few years
>> the power of the console will dwarf the power of the PC, so while
>> you are skipping frames on NBA Jam we will be MAMEing the whole
>> collection at full speed on our consoles ;P~
>>
>> Not really, just because of the nature of MAME but Doom on the
>> Console will eventually kill Doom on the PC.
>
> I doubt that it will.
>
> Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are
> stuck to certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy
> better graphics power, more memory, faster cpu and blow that
> console out of the water again.
>
> Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But
> PCs will always be faster and more pwerful.
>

Here is another take on it that uses the Price argument instead of
the power one:

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-6449_7-6233821-1.html


--
David
June 4, 2005 9:00:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:29:28 GMT, "Quantum Leaper"
<leaper@bigfoot.com> wrote:

>Id software is the creator of FPS with Wolf3D, so in reality all FPS are
>ripoffs of Wolf3D. The problem with the Vietnam War games example is the
>War was a fact and designers are trying to make the player be in that War,
>so how much innovation can you really have?

A lot actually. Every genre comes with its own traps. The idea is to
rethink the conventions of a genre and move beyond those conventions
to create something refreshing - not necessarily never-before-seen.
Sometimes just adding a new dimension of gameplay to an established
title can make players see a game in a whole new way. Look at
Civilization III or Pac-Pix.

Designing something truly never-before-seen is extraordinarily hard.
maybe PPUs will usher in a whole new genre. Specialized hardware can
certainly make a difference. If you really want to be innovative,
design a game to take advantage of a DigiScent iSmell device and
you'll have the first game that stimulates that underused olfactory
nerve. Imagine playing a military shooter and being able to smell the
sulphur!

I have some specific comments about the VW games, but I'd rather not
get into that here since we're already way off topic. If you're
interested, follow-up via email.

>better over time, if the same programmers work on a project the code tends
>to get better, since they realize the mistakes the first time around. I
>know my friend he programmed the same basic game 3 or 4 times for different
>systems, the last one was small than the first one and did twice as much.

Practice makes perfect, eh? Yeah, that's how it should be. I think
good games generally get better, whereas bad games rarely improve by
much. Sure, sometimes it takes a few releases before a title finds its
sweet spot - Resident Evil IV for example. One things for certain, no
matter where they ported it to, THQ couldn't save Tetris Worlds.

>Niche compared to PCs, maybe but Games and consoles made arond 11 billion
>or something like that, last year. So Movies are niche market also?

Huh? Strictly within the PC market, true gaming systems of the sort
preferred by hardcore gamers are a niche market. High-performance
custom car parts hit $28.9 billion two years ago. It's still a niche
within the automobile market.

>Like I said, it the attitude you so of programming in general, that
>software doesn't in general get better over time.

I never said it doesn't get better. I said it often gets fatter,
creating a loss of performance that wouldn't otherwise be there; and
that the rate at which PC performance increases often serves as an
excuse for bad/inefficient software design. Either I mispoke or you
misunderstood. It's probably easier to see my point if you look at
application software and not games.

>How do you know the interface takes up alot of resources?
>I haven't played either game enough to comment more that....

In case you haven't seen the interface, the controls appear to be a
rendered 3D bubbled panel with flyouts that expose various controls
and settings. I've tracked performance hits to my system when working
with the panel. Ordinary gameplay is fine with no slowdowns except
when zooming in on 3D user objects or when there are 20 or so sims on
the board. Of course, I may be wrong. The interface may just be
ordinary custom drawn windows, but the performance hits are there.
Good game though.

>Which demos? The only demos, I know that USED the PhysX chip where 2
>closed door demos, neither by Sony.

Forget about it. It was just a technology demo of a building exploding
into thousands of pieces complete with smoke and vapor trails. Sony
showed it to the audience at E3 and suggested it was all being done in
the machine, not pre-rendered. G4-TechTV's commentators talked about
it. I don't think Sony said a PPU was involved.
Anonymous
June 6, 2005 6:47:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Anthony wrote:
> On Sat, 04 Jun 2005 03:29:28 GMT, "Quantum Leaper"
> <leaper@bigfoot.com> wrote:
-----8<-----
> A lot actually. Every genre comes with its own traps. The idea is to
> rethink the conventions of a genre and move beyond those conventions
> to create something refreshing - not necessarily never-before-seen.
> Sometimes just adding a new dimension of gameplay to an established
> title can make players see a game in a whole new way. Look at
> Civilization III or Pac-Pix.

Another example is Battlezone. BZFlag took the basic game play and made
it multiplayer. The commercial PC versions took it waaaaay beyond the
original and combined an FPS with an RTS. Fortunately, it worked.
(Damn well, IMO!)

> Designing something truly never-before-seen is extraordinarily hard.

......As any game designer can tell you.....<G>

> maybe PPUs will usher in a whole new genre. Specialized hardware can
> certainly make a difference. If you really want to be innovative,
> design a game to take advantage of a DigiScent iSmell device and
> you'll have the first game that stimulates that underused olfactory
> nerve. Imagine playing a military shooter and being able to smell the
> sulphur!

I can't find the link anymore, but I came across a site about a
dedicated mech console (for Mechwarrior 2 or 3. I forget). The guy who
built it actually had a separate program running that monitored game
variables and presented them on separate LCD screens and gauges through
the serial ports. He had taken apart an old IBM keyboard for the
switches and grouped them logically on the console with custom keycaps.
If anyone has the link, /*please*/ post it.

-----8<-----

--
Thnik about it!
Deadly_Dad
!