Next Gen consoles and MAME Emulation..

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Hi all

Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any comments on
the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?

chjeers

tim

 

[mcr]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Tim :\ wrote:
> Hi all
>
> Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any comments on
> the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
> the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?
>
> chjeers
>
> tim
>
>

Tim,
you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.

--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR wrote on 29. May 2005:
>
> Tim :\ wrote:
>> Hi all
>> Anyone know of resources to MAME dev for next gen consoles? Any
>> comments on
>> the maximum emu power (that is, which games will run fairly well) based upon
>> the current published specs of the Xbox 360 etc?
>> chjeers
>> tim
>>
>
> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.

True.
--
By(e) Andreas
U w4nt r0meZ? <http://www.lazarus.org.uk/>
Old school arcade classics at http://www.tombstones.org.uk/~ankman/
Linux without installation? http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
OE user? Ease the pain and try the better newsreader http://xnews.newsguy.com/
Registered as user #289125 with the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in newsQdme.131$cN2.19
@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net:

> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.

Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will be
some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.


> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>

A good ol' fashioned PC in a big ol' cabinet with dearest comrade burns and flashing
lights you mean


--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR a écrit :
>
> Tim,
> you can bet Microsoft learnt from their mistakes with the Xbox and
> Xbox360 has some pretty evil DRM in it to stop piracy. It wont matter
> what power those consoles CPU's have or how big the hard disks are, no
> one is going to crack the encryption anyway.
>
> Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
> nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>

As long as you'll be able to read a game on a console, you'll be able to
read the program you want by one way or another.

This is as dumb as trying to prevent the copy of CD audio while keeping
a way to be able to listen to it.

--
Laurent Raufaste
analogue @ http://www.glop.org/
Votez OUI !

 

[mcr]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Alex Devlin wrote:
Snipped

> Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
> consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will be
> some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.

I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on earth
is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play MAME, when
the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

>>Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
>>nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>>
>
>
> A good ol' fashioned PC in a big ol' cabinet with dearest comrade burns and flashing
> lights you mean


Damn straight!


--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

 

[mcr]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
Snipped
> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

Whats the point tho'?

>>Theoretically if it was possible it STILL would be shite anyways as
>>nothing beats a good ol' fashioned PC for MAME.
>
>
> True.



--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

 

[mcr]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

analogue wrote:
Snipped


> As long as you'll be able to read a game on a console, you'll be able to
> read the program you want by one way or another.

We'll see....

> This is as dumb as trying to prevent the copy of CD audio while keeping
> a way to be able to listen to it.
>

True
--
MCR
MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:41:46 GMT, MCR
<mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote:

>MCR
>MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
>documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!

What's decryping then mate ? ;-)

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
> Snipped
>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.

> Whats the point tho'?

A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

--
David
You are scrupulously honest, frank, and straightforward. Therefore you
have few friends.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

MCR <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in
news:w5Jme.6035$rf4.569@newsfe5-win.ntli.net:

>> Never say never Mark. Remember that the folk that are cracking these
>> consoles are as smart as the ones designing them. I think there will
>> be some kind of crack within a year of it being launched.
>
> I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on
> earth is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play
> MAME, when
> the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

Nobody will buy a next gen console to 'just' play mame. They'll buy it
for the same reason eveyone else will, to play the games being released
on it.

But when you have one and someone mentions that "you can play mame on
that" then some will want to do so.

You are right, in the sense that no-one would probably buy a next gen
console just for mame playing.

But if something can be adapted to do things it's not meant to,
specially something owned by Microsoft, you can bet that someone will
find a way to do so.

Remember WinXP was going to stop software piracy because you had to
'activate' it...?

--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

"MCR" <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote in message news:w5Jme.6035

> I am sure there will be 'mod' chips for these devices, but who on earth
> is going to pay good money on a next gen console just to play MAME, when
> the equivalent money spent on a PC will get better kit?

It's not "just to play mame"...mame is just 1 of the benefits. Playing the
other emulators (nes, snes, etc.) would also be a reason along with all the
other benfits of mod chips (playing burned games, copyright free movies,
etc.). The fact that it's compact and you can bring with you on trips or to
your neighbor's house is another (I don't imagine people lugging around
their pc, monitor, and keyboard with them wherever they go).

As for not being able to be cracked is ridiculous. Every system is
crackable. Give the community a matter of months.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in news:cn4sm2x0a2.ln2
@news.gates_of_hell.com:

> It totally depends on what you want it to do but in a few years the
> power of the console will dwarf the power of the PC, so while you are
> skipping frames on NBA Jam we will be MAMEing the whole collection at
> full speed on our consoles ;P~
>
> Not really, just because of the nature of MAME but Doom on the Console
> will eventually kill Doom on the PC.

I doubt that it will.

Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
always be faster and more pwerful.

--
Alex Devlin

"Never knowingly understood."

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Alex Devlin wrote in alt.games.mame:
> SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote in news:cn4sm2x0a2.ln2
> @news.gates_of_hell.com:

>> It totally depends on what you want it to do but in a few years the
>> power of the console will dwarf the power of the PC, so while you are
>> skipping frames on NBA Jam we will be MAMEing the whole collection at
>> full speed on our consoles ;P~

>> Not really, just because of the nature of MAME but Doom on the Console
>> will eventually kill Doom on the PC.

> I doubt that it will.

Just read an article to the contrary.

> Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
> certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
> more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
deal with.

> Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
> always be faster and more pwerful.

Only time will tell.

--
David
The enemy diversion you're ignoring is their main attack
-- Murphy's Military Laws n°79

 

[Mike]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:

> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
> deal with.

Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
the average enthusiast to program for?
Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy

Mike

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>
> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> Snipped
>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>
>> Whats the point tho'?
>
> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

That's the point.
--
By(e) Andreas
U w4nt r0meZ? <http://www.lazarus.org.uk/>
Old school arcade classics at http://www.tombstones.org.uk/~ankman/
Linux without installation? http://www.knopper.net/knoppix/index-en.html
OE user? Ease the pain and try the better newsreader http://xnews.newsguy.com/
Registered as user #289125 with the Linux Counter http://counter.li.org/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

SINNER's last words before the Sword of Azrial plunged through his body
were:
> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>> Snipped
>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>> Whats the point tho'?
> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?

If I just built up a 400mhz for $25, I'm pretty sure can easily do a 733
for less than $150

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On 2005-05-30, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
> deal with.

Which makes them really, really bad for mame which needs
single-threaded cpu aplenty and doesn't care about what the gpu can do
outside of pure blitting.

OG.

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Mike wrote in alt.games.mame:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:

>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
>> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
>> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
>> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
>> deal with.

> Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
> nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
> the average enthusiast to program for?
> Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy

Busted

--
David
"But don't you worry, its for a cause -- feeding global corporations' paws."

 

[sinner]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

* Olivier Galibert Wrote in alt.games.mame:

> On 2005-05-30, SINNER <99nesorjd@gates_of_hell.invalid> wrote:
>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to
>> perform a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more
>> powerful and specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not
>> to mention that optimization for a platform that will not have a
>> variety of hardware to deal with.
>
> Which makes them really, really bad for mame which needs
> single-threaded cpu aplenty and doesn't care about what the gpu
> can do outside of pure blitting.
>
> OG.
>
>

Yeah, I was just bustin em. I basically said that here:

Message-ID: <cn4sm2x0a2.ln2@news.gates_of_hell.com>

--
David

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On 2005-05-31, Andreas Kohlbach <ankman@email.com> wrote:

> SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>
>> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?
>
> That's the point.

Hmm, my bare cab cost 50 quid, PC cost me 25, ipac cost me 25, so
that's about 100 quid, which is about the same as an xbox but I get a
full cabinet!

Monitor cost me 150 quid (20" LCD that rotates through 90 degrees) but
previous CRT monitor only cost me 30 quid.

--
For every expert, there is an equal but opposite expert

 

[mcr]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

PRoToCoL wrote:
> On Mon, 30 May 2005 18:41:46 GMT, MCR
> <mark.coleman10@nospamntlworld.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>MCR
>>MAME(TM) - History In The Making...
>>documentation, decryping, developing and playing games!
>
>
> What's decryping then mate ? ;-)
>
>

Ahem... :-D

 

[Anthony]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Tue, 31 May 2005 00:03:53 -0400, Andreas Kohlbach
<ankman@email.com> wrote:

>SINNER wrote on 30. May 2005:
>>
>> * MCR wrote in alt.games.mame:
>>> Andreas Kohlbach wrote:
>>> Snipped
>>>> MS always thought they do stuff you cannot crack. But nowadays you can
>>>> use the Xbox as a PC and natively run Linux on it. No need to mod it.
>>
>>> Whats the point tho'?
>>
>> A sub $150 P3 733 MHZ PC?
>
>That's the point.

Eh, those who know how to mod an XBox probably have at least one spare
P3 around the house anyway, so it's really just for bragging rights.
Is there really a practical value to running a web and email server on
a homebrew Xbox server?

Now, if someone can mod the XBox 360 so that I can run a PPC-based OS
on it, I'll be interested

 

[Anthony]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:26:03 GMT, Alex Devlin
<zanderXXXink@gmailXXX.com> wrote:

>I doubt that it will.
>
>Consoles are designed years before they hit the shelves so are stuck to
>certain hardware. PCs can be updated so you can buy better graphics power,
>more memory, faster cpu and blow that console out of the water again.

True, but lately I've been thinking this is a losing proposition for
the gamer. As a long-time PC gamer I can remember a time when faster
processors and bigger memory literally meant better games. I don't
believe that trend has continued. There are some exceptions.

I feel that most current-gen games offer little more than what
previous-gen games did, all while taxing the hardware even more.
Console development generally gets more efficient as the console
approaches its end of cycle, but it seems like PC development never
gets more efficient because there's no incentive as upgrades are
always six months away.

>Consoles are fantastic for what they do, plug and play games. But PCs will
>always be faster and more pwerful.

I don't think PC speed and power is a relevent measure anymore because
there is so little evolution on the software side in terms of design
and innovtion to match the advances coming on the hardware side. With
each new iteration of CPU and RAM, operating systems and software
applications will grow fatter to soak up all that extra performance
like a sponge. Ultimately, the ratio of total performance to available
performance remains about the same or somewhat better.

Anthony

 

[Anthony]

Archived from groups: alt.games.mame (More info?)

On Mon, 30 May 2005 23:37:51 GMT, Mike <mdh@deadspam.com> wrote:

>On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:45:52 GMT, SINNER wrote:
>
>> The issue is that on a dedicated console the hardware is made to perform
>> a specific task. The GPU of a cnsole is considerably more powerful and
>> specialized than a graphics card in todays PC. Not to mention that
>> optimization for a platform that will not have a variety of hardware to
>> deal with.
>
>Yeah, but aren't you ignoring the fact that consoles are by their very
>nature more proprietary and closed than any PC, making them much harder for
>the average enthusiast to program for?
>Besides, we all know you're just an Xbox fanboy
>
>Mike

As I read yours and Sinner's comment I couldn't help but to think of
the current Macintosh computer. Can we find parallels in the Mac here?
The nature of development on the Mac used to be as you say for
consoles. I don't know if Apple has stopped pinning developers under
their thumb, so maybe this isn't true anymore.

Anthony