gravity

Forum Old Man/Woman's Club : Other - gravity

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what's the scientific explanation?

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There is none. A bunch of theories and whatnot, but no definitive explanation.

Reply to Snorkius

Quote :

In physics, gravitation or gravity is the the tendency of objects with mass to accelerate toward each other. The gravitational force is one of the four Fundamental interactions in nature, the other three being the electromagnetic force, the weak nuclear force, and the strong nuclear force. Gravitation force is the weakest of these interactions, but acts over great distances and is always attractive. In classical mechanics, gravitation arises out of the force of gravity (which is often used as a synonym for gravitation). In General Relativity gravitation arises out of spacetime being curved by the presence of mass, and is not a force. In quantum gravity the graviton is the postulated carrier of the gravitational force.[1]

The gravitational attraction of the Earth endows objects with weight and causes them to fall to the ground when dropped. Moreover, gravitation is the reason for the very existence of the earth, the sun and other celestial bodies; without it matter would not have coalesced into these bodies and life as we know it would not exist. Gravitation is also responsible for keeping the earth and the other planets in their orbits around the sun, the moon in its orbit around the earth, for the tides, and for various other natural phenomena that we observe.



clicky

Reply to mpjesse

Quote :

A bunch of theories and whatnot, but no definitive explanation.



That's true of anything really. Except death and taxes of course.

Reply to mpjesse

Fair enough, we could all be living in a Matrix type thing for all we know, but most scientifically proven 'theories' are beyond doubt in the axiom system we choose to acknowledge at the moment.

Gravity, on the other hand, has no definitive explanation i.e. there is no physics model that works and can completely explain gravity and be confirmed by experimental results.

Reply to Snorkius

Ummm...

Gravity has been confirmed by experimental results millions of times.

Specifically, gravitational fields have been replicated here on earth by spinning heaving metal objects at high speeds.

Ever heard of a gyroscope?

Reply to mpjesse

By explanation I assume Pike means the cause. The 'why does gravity happen?, what causes two masses to attract?' part.

The cause is not yet established.

And gyroscopes have nothing to do with gravity, per se. Force comes from acceleration and when masses spin you get acceleration even with a constant rotation speed. When those masses are spinning non-uniformly with a variable rotational speed, all sorts of weird things happen in weird directions.

Reply to Snorkius

Quote :

all sorts of weird things happen in weird directions



Right... that's called gravity. ;-)

Reply to mpjesse

No. It's called inertia. Gyroscopes don't need gravity to work and a gyroscope model does not take gravity into account (for solving a problem).

That's part of why they're so useful: they work in space.

Reply to Snorkius

Anyway, you should know that breaking this law most often hurts...

Reply to pat

Quote :

all sorts of weird things happen in weird directions



Right... that's called gravity. ;-)

Quote :

An object traveling in a circle behaves as if it is experiencing an outward force. This force, known as the centrifugal force, depends on the mass of the object, the speed of rotation, and the distance from the center. The more massive the object, the greater the force; the greater the speed of the object, the greater the force; and the greater the distance from the center, the greater the force.

It is important to note that the centrifugal force does not actually exist. We feel it, because we are in a non-inertial coordinate system. Nevertheless, it appears quite real to the object being rotated. This is because the object believes that it is in a non-accelerating situation, when in fact it is not. For instance, a child on a merry-go-round is not experiencing any real force outward, but he/she must exert a force to keep from flying off the merry-go-round. Because the centrifugal force appears so real, it is often very useful to use as if it were real. The more massive the object, the greater the force. We know that this is true because an adult will have a harder time staying on a merry-go-round than a child will. The greater the speed of rotation, the greater the outward force. We know that this is true because a merry-go-round is harder to stay on, the faster it rotates. If you move further out on the merry-go-round, you will have to exert a greater force to stay on. In order to stay on a circular path, we must exert a force towards the center called centripetal (or "center-seeking" ) force.



And I allways thought centrifugal force was real....Sees thread heading twards Quantum Physics & beats feet...

Reply to AilingBlackLab

Quote :

By explanation I assume Pike means the cause. The 'why does gravity happen?, what causes two masses to attract?' part.

The cause is not yet established.



yes, that's what i meant

Reply to pike

i'm kidding folks.

i really have no clue about physics. I'm just randomly quoting shit from wiki.

;-)

Reply to mpjesse

Who needs science to explain it? All I know is my wifes breasts aren't
as high as they used to be.

Reply to KingLoftusXII

Quote :

There is none. A bunch of theories and whatnot, but no definitive explanation.



Which is why there is still no unifying theory for the four fundamental forces.

Reply to BigMac

Gravity is not your problem, it's the attraction of other peoples stuff you have difficulty in resisting.

Reply to Tom_Smart

A surprisingly moral stance from a Scouser.... [/stereotyping]

Reply to RobD

I wasn't judging, just don't like non union fcukers getting work which is rightfully ours.[/Scouse]

Reply to Tom_Smart

That's like asking what is the cause of electromagnetic force, or what is the cause of weak force, or strong force.

The four fundamental forces are just there. We have no definitive explanation as of yet.

Superstring Theory seems to be on the right track, though there are some MAJOR obstacles still in place.

Basically it states that the elementary particle is a 1 dimensional loops of energy that vibrates. Depending on the frequency of vibration, the particle produced by that string varies.

*If* this theory is correct (or M-theory, they are correlated) then the explanation for gravity is simple. One of the particles produced is the graviton. Gravitons attract to each other, therefore the more mass something has, the more gravitons it will have and the more gravitational pull it will have.

Why the forces exist the way the do in the exact magnitudes that they do can all be explained by string theory, it's just extremely complicated and I only understand the very very very basic concepts involved.

Thus far in science, this is the closest they have come to explaining the "whys" of gravity.

Reply to Forlorn

Quantum physics is a nasty & dain brammaging thing... Please don't make my head hurt

Reply to AilingBlackLab

I admit it's hard to grasp the concepts, but once you do it changes the way you look at things.

Reply to Forlorn

Sorry for the late response, I've been doing a spot of reading to freshen up my knowledge. I can now state with the utmost certainty that I'm going to put my head in a bucket of iced water. Seriously though, gravity is here for the moment. One more phase change as the universe expands and it may leave us. 'Moment to moment', you may be onto something there. :wink:

Reply to Tom_Smart

I'm pretty sure that the physics of our universe are set until it's demise.

It is possible for a universe to exist without gravity, however within our universe the laws of physics are universal. Yes, that's up for debate, but from observing the universe around us, we can safely come to this conclusion.

In order for gravity to cease to exist, the very foundation of our universe would have to be altered, most likely killing us in the process.

Reply to Forlorn

Energy is measured in quanta.

The more mass something has, the more quanta is transferred back and forth, creating a sort of connection which goes into Mr. Albert's theory that everything is connected via EM fields.

It also explains the big bang theory.. large masses attracted together, bringing in smaller objects, to form the big bang.

Because everything is built out of atoms, which carry some form of charge, everything we know is attracted to something else.

Reply to Riser

Don't really have the time to get into this at the moment. Just have a think about this. During the first few instants of the universe there were only particles with stupid high energies. There was no matter and hence no gravity. We started off without it, we can just as easy lose it again. It is all about how dense the matter field is and how forces can be carried in that environment. As we expand it's density decreases, losing gravity may turn out to be a consequence of that.

Reply to Tom_Smart

Gravity exists regardless of charge.

You're blending EMF and Gravity together.

Gravity is created by the presence of mass, not the charge.

Einstein was never able to prove a correlation between EMF and Gravity though he did spend a good chunk of his life trying.

That doesn't explain why the big bang happened or how.

You're also discussing things at an atomic level, in order to truly understand any force, you need to delve deeper into the crazy world of quantum physics.

Reply to Forlorn

Energy is measured in quanta.

I think quanta is more of a generalization covering different forms and amounts of energy. Not just gravity.

Reply to russell

As far as we know, gravity *is not* a form of energy.

It's a distortion in spacetime itself.

Reply to Forlorn

In my view gravity certainly doesn't have the characteristics of energy's as we think of energy. If it did it seems to me that the characteristic of attracting another mass would diminish the strength of the attracting gravitational field. Perhaps gravity will lead us to a perpetual motion machine. [/another topic all together]

Reply to russell

I'm not aware of anyone here who truly can understand quatum physics.

I did break it down into QP though = Quanta. the smallest amount of energy being exchanged.

It's believed that energy is constantly in exchange when collisions occur. That alone forms a connection. Enough of this and a small bond occurs.

AE believed that you could never truly touch something because the force you feel when touching someone was the force of your own electrons/protons/neutrons are pushing back against you.. you didn't touch, it was like polar opposites. Two of the same poles trying to touch one another. That was his theory.

When you look at how quanta works, you'll see how things can bind together and possible for a small level of gravity.. on a large scale, such as that of Earth, there is enough to hold people.

Go to the moon, you weigh less based on smaller mass. Go to a larger planet, you weigh more..

Figuring quanta takes place at the absolute smallest level.. let's say there are 100 collisions a second.. each transferrng energy back and forth on an even scale.. because that's the only way it works, otherwise it would be unstable.

100 collisions, 1 second, means that there is a constant connection somewhere and they can't seperate until that energy is exchanged.. thus, a small form of gravity. That's the current understanding from what I understand with QP.

Reply to Riser

We're discussing two different definitions of gravity here. There is general relativiy and then there is the QP definition.

I honestly don't know much about the QP definition. I only know what I've learned thus far, and that's mostly been GR. I guess that shows how physics truly does have a gap in it that needs to be filled.

Reply to Forlorn

Quote :

I guess that shows how physics truly does have a gap in it that needs to be filled.



I had a GUT feeling you'd say something like that!

Reply to Tom_Smart

No, you're just hungry.

Reply to Forlorn

Quote :

It is possible for a universe to exist without gravity, however within our universe the laws of physics are universal. Yes, that's up for debate, but from observing the universe around us, we can safely come to this conclusion.



You and the rest of the population of this planet can observe the universe for the rest of their lives, and you still will only have seen the tiniest fraction of the universe. It won't help you one bit though if you don't know what you're looking for.

Just observing it will not do you any good. First set up a hypothesis, then derive from that what you need to observe in order to prove or disprove it, then start searching for the empirical evidence.

Reply to BigMac

Gravity is in fact caused by beer. If there were no beer there would be no gravity. I shall now go out and drink all the beer to prove this.

***return many hours later***

Gravity is not caused by beer, but there is evidence that it enhances it's effects!

Reply to Tom_Smart

It's obvious that you live your life in experimentation (recommendable, btw). It's also obvious you would be lousy scientist (also recommendable, I might add).

Reply to BigMac

I'll add that to my "Need to know" information!!!!!!

Reply to RCPilot

As if you did not know that already.... now get back down here, you old sparrow legs [/wingding]

Reply to BigMac

Quote :

It's obvious that you live your life in experimentation (recommendable, btw). It's also obvious you would be lousy scientist (also recommendable, I might add).



Without examining my methods you make assumptions about my ability as a scientist. Assumptions! and I'm the lousy scientist. :wink:

Reply to Tom_Smart

I get no respect..... [/Dangerfield]

Reply to RCPilot

At first it seems to cause instability in the local gravitational field. This is what causes the wobbling. After many more beers the effects of gravity become irresistible and you are drawn directly down towards the earth. What more evidence can any sane being require. Although I will continue the research, just in case I've missed something. :wink:

Reply to Tom_Smart

Quote :

As if you did not know that already.... now get back down here, you old sparrow legs [/wingding]



Further study indicates prolonged usage of Coors causes lower limb atrophy.

Reply to Tom_Smart

Quote :

At first it seems to cause instability in the local gravitational field. This is what causes the wobbling.


I have observed that effect before..... I entered a "High Speed Wobble" state an a few occasions..... Usually leads to a crash.... Thus enforcing your research!!!!

Reply to RCPilot

I've never heard that!!!! As a matter of fact, Coors has caused me any damage...

Reply to RCPilot

Yes, it obviously has. Sparrow Leg Syndrome. :lol:

Reply to Auburn9698

Naw..... That was just a bad camera angle..... [shrug]

Reply to RCPilot

Ahh, what other kind of damage then? Or, were you trying to say hasn't? Because you don't have to convince us that it has.

Reply to Auburn9698
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