IDE controller problem? Please help!

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
What to do??
I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
help.
The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
Thanks!
24 answers Last reply
More about controller problem help
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    tihi wrote:
    > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
    > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
    > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
    > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
    > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    > What to do??
    > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    > help.
    > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > Thanks!
    >
    >
    What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
    have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
    the Jumper settings!
    The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:58:28 +0200, "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
    wrote:

    >I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
    >I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    >and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    >cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    >happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
    >I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    >diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
    >gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
    >they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    >What to do??
    >I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    >help.
    >The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    >Thanks!
    >

    Try this.....put the new Maxtor as Primary IDE1, DVD as Secondary IDE1
    and the old hard disk as Primary IDE2, CDRW as Secondary IDE2.


    -
    --
    Curtis Newton
    cnewton@remove-this.akaMail.com
    http://surf.to/cnewton
    ICQ: 4899169
    Anti-Spam filter in place--
    <delete remove-this. to respond to email>
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:58:28 +0200, "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
    wrote:

    >I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
    >I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    >and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    >cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    >happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
    >I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    >diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
    >gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
    >they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    >What to do??
    >I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    >help.
    >The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    >Thanks!
    >

    Try this.....put the new Maxtor as Primary IDE1, DVD as Secondary IDE1
    and the old hard disk as Primary IDE2, CDRW as Secondary IDE2.


    -
    --
    Curtis Newton
    cnewton@remove-this.akaMail.com
    http://surf.to/cnewton
    ICQ: 4899169
    Anti-Spam filter in place--
    <delete remove-this. to respond to email>
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE cable oriented
    correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the black and grey
    go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old config, it's
    doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just installed
    it backwards.

    Anyway, just speculating.

    HTH

    Jim


    "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
    news:c5qrfk$68q$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
    > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
    when
    > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
    harddisc.
    > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller
    is
    > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter
    if
    > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    > What to do??
    > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    > help.
    > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > Thanks!
    >
    >
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    tihi wrote:

    > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
    > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
    > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
    > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
    > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    > What to do??
    > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    > help.
    > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > Thanks!
    >
    >

    Set both hard drives to cable select and put the new one on the end
    connector, assuming you want it to be master.

    If that doesn't work then try the new drive all alone with none of the
    others connected. If it still isn't detected then you may have a bad drive.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    > tihi wrote:
    > > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
    when
    > > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like
    master,
    > > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd
    and
    > > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    > > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
    harddisc.
    > > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and
    few
    > > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE
    controller is
    > > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no
    matter if
    > > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    > > What to do??
    > > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that
    will
    > > help.
    > > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > > Thanks!
    > >
    > >
    > What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
    > have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
    > the Jumper settings!
    > The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
    >
    I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
    combinations.
    The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
    harddisc it still wont work!
    Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
    recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
    here!
    I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <c5r448$jgm$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, tihi <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
    writes
    >> tihi wrote:
    >> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    >> > Thanks!
    >> >
    >> >
    >> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
    >> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
    >> the Jumper settings!
    >> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
    >>
    >I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
    >combinations.
    >The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
    >harddisc it still wont work!
    >Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
    >recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
    >here!
    >I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
    >
    >
    Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
    you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
    hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
    are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
    though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
    the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
    connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
    Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
    --
    Peter Ives
    Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    In article <c5sgtk$cmg$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, tihi <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
    writes
    >> >> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    >> >> > Thanks!
    >> >> >
    >> >> >
    >> >> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
    >probably
    >> >> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
    >all
    >> >> the Jumper settings!
    >> >> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
    >> >>
    >> >I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
    >> >combinations.
    >> >The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
    >> >harddisc it still wont work!
    >> >Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
    >> >recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the
    >case
    >> >here!
    >> >I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
    >> >
    >> >
    >> Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
    >> you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
    >> hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
    >> are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
    >> though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
    >> the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
    >> connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
    >> Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
    >> --
    >> Peter Ives
    >> Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
    >
    >You have been right. On the old hard two pins were broken. I've fix that and
    >the old harddisc is working properly now.
    >But the problem with new Maxtor drive still remains. I heard that he is
    >spinning, and it is partionaly recognised in BIOS (under IDE settings BIOS
    >corectly writes that the primary master is Maxtor, but BIOS can't read its
    >size). I've downladed Maxtor aplication for making partitions and formating,
    >but this aplication also can't see the drive.
    >Is there any special procedure for installing new (large 120M) harddrive?
    >
    >

    Is the BIOS set to AUTO detect all your IDE devices? If not then,
    unless you specifically need to do otherwise because your other HD has
    an unusual specification, you could do that and hopefully your new HD
    will at least be detected.

    From that point on you're going to have to get it partitioned and
    formatted. There are various ways to do this. If you currently boot to
    XP then the partitioning software on that is ok. If you can't get the
    Maxtor partitioning software to work (don't know how good it is, never
    used it), then you may have to try Fdisk, but make sure it's an up-to-
    date version (not the one that comes with win98) that can handle HD up
    to 137GB.
    --
    Peter Ives
    Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    > >> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > >> > Thanks!
    > >> >
    > >> >
    > >> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
    probably
    > >> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
    all
    > >> the Jumper settings!
    > >> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
    > >>
    > >I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
    > >combinations.
    > >The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
    > >harddisc it still wont work!
    > >Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
    > >recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
    > >here!
    > >I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
    > >
    > >
    > Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
    > you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
    > hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
    > are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
    > though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
    > the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
    > connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
    > Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
    > --
    > Peter Ives
    > Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

    You have been right. On the old hard two pins were broken. I've fix that and
    the old harddisc is working properly now.
    But the problem with new Maxtor drive still remains. I heard that he is
    spinning, and it is partionaly recognised in BIOS (under IDE settings BIOS
    corectly writes that the primary master is Maxtor, but BIOS can't read its
    size). I've downladed Maxtor aplication for making partitions and formating,
    but this aplication also can't see the drive.
    Is there any special procedure for installing new (large 120M) harddrive?
  10. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    "Jim" wrote :
    > Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE cable
    oriented
    > correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the black and
    grey
    > go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old config, it's
    > doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just
    installed
    > it backwards.
    >
    > Anyway, just speculating.
    >
    > HTH
    >
    > Jim
    >

    :)
    I've check the cable orientation couple of times, but the problem is not
    there. There was couple pins on old hard broken, I've fix that and now it is
    working, but the problem with new drive remains. :(
  11. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    Patrick <pberry26@yahoo.com> wrote:
    | tihi wrote:
    || I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems
    || start when I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE
    || channel like master, and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the
    || second IDE channel is dvd and cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS)
    || didn't recognise any device! Same happens when I connect everything
    || like it was before boughting new harddisc. I've tried all possible
    || combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few diferent IDE
    || cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
    || gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no
    || matter if they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    || What to do??
    || I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that
    || will help.
    || The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    || Thanks!
    ||
    ||
    | What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
    | probably
    | have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
    | all
    | the Jumper settings!
    | The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master

    Given that when you only have a couple of drives connected then they are
    detected okay, so you seem to be left with one of two possibilities - either
    an IDE problem or a power problem.
    It might be that your PSU itn't quite managing to supply enough power for
    all the drives. Try setting all detection the the BIOS to 'auto' and then
    just try one or two drives at a time - in various combinations. Experiment.
    If you can isolate the problem to one device then so much the better, or you
    might find it is the NUMBER of devices causing the problem. Watch out for
    the master/slave settings as you swap drives around and treat the IDE cables
    and connectors gently. Try a different IDE cable as well - just in case.
    The other thing you might like to try doing is to see if your BIOS has an
    option to delay the IDE detection for a few seconds so it can wait while all
    the devices 'come up' and report back. I've found this works on some
    problematic systems with a full complement of drives. Also, if you are
    running the IDE busses faster than ATA-33, or 'auto', try setting them down
    to 33 while you get things working for starters. You can always fine-tune
    for performance once everything works.
    No need to worry about booting to op systems or formatting drives while you
    do this - you're trying to get the BIOS to recognise the drives. First
    things first.
    Kevin.
  12. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    wrote:

    >So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots have
    >downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus. What's
    >your point?
    >

    .... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of a
    damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
    insufficient power supply or (whatever).

    If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there is no
    compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular combination that
    won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to know exactly what
    that combination is, not a vague overgeneralization that's more false than
    true.
  13. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:39:52 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    wrote:

    >"Nonsense", how do you know that? I have seen more people having
    >problems with Maxtors not being detected or downright not working. In
    >most cases changing to a different drive or even the same drive, but
    >different production run solved the problem. I have had my own problems.
    >One drive would blue screen in a Windows 9x environment after writing.
    >Yet another system, being part for part identical worked properly.
    >Yes I tried the drive in a third, different system, same problem.
    >Another drive would not be detected.
    >

    Please cite specific examples.

    I know it because there is too much contradictory information, unless
    you're using some rare and inadquate system configuration.
  14. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    There are no vague generlizations.

    Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

    problem seagate (4,860 hits)
    problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
    problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
    problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

    Go figure.

    kony wrote:

    > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
    >> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus.
    >> What's your point?
    >>
    >
    >
    > ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of
    > a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
    > insufficient power supply or (whatever).
    >
    > If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there
    > is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
    > combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to
    > know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
    > overgeneralization that's more false than true.
  15. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    mr potatohead wrote:

    > There are no vague generlizations.

    Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.

    > Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >
    > problem seagate (4,860 hits)
    > problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
    > problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
    > problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
    >
    > Go figure.

    I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't. They
    could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users who have
    'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase. Could be they're
    more popular among all Abit users too. Could be they're more popular in
    general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or nothing at all.

    And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
    problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives ARE 'the
    problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know if they are in
    Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100 capable response and
    fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor' with a UDMA66 drive could
    cause one to erroneously think that 'the maxtor' was 'the problem'.

    This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent' with a
    'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves', or even
    'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if there are no
    other possible outcomes from the data.

    I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to mention the
    possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A' does not 'prove'
    that Y is the case.

    It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
    drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation (e.g.
    There is a very strong correlation between people opening umbrellas and the
    incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas causes rain. Furthermore, it
    can be shown that opening them indoors has a lower correlation; it is
    opening them outdoors where the correlation is strongest. So, if you want
    it to rain you should open your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.

    Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in the
    'science' news.)


    > kony wrote:
    >
    >> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots have
    >>> downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus. What's
    >>> your point?
    >>>
    >>
    >>
    >> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of a
    >> damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
    >> insufficient power supply or (whatever).
    >>
    >> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there
    >> is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular combination
    >> that won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to
    >> know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
    >> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
  16. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
    lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
    (and I’ve had my own problems). I have read reports where an identical,
    RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
    you something was screwy with the original. I will not say this is
    typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
    many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
    proof for me.

    Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
    produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
    having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
    Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
    drive.

    One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
    to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
    platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
    identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
    this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
    will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
    run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
    to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.

    David Maynard wrote:

    > mr potatohead wrote:
    >
    >> There are no vague generlizations.
    >
    >
    > Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
    >
    >> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >>
    >> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
    >> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
    >> (21,800 hits)
    >>
    >> Go figure.
    >
    >
    > I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
    > They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
    > who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
    > Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
    > they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
    > nothing at all.
    >
    > And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
    > problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
    > ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
    > if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
    > capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
    > with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
    > maxtor' was 'the problem'.
    >
    > This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
    > with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
    > or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
    > there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
    >
    > I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
    > mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
    > does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
    >
    > It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
    > drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
    > (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
    > umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
    > causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
    > has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
    > correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
    > your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
    >
    > Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
    > the 'science' news.)
    >
    >
    >> kony wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
    >>> potatohead"> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
    >>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
    >>>> virus. What's your point?
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
    >>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
    >>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
    >>>
    >>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
    >>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
    >>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
    >>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
    >>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
    >
    >
  17. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    mr potatohead wrote:

    > While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
    > lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
    > (and I’ve had my own problems).

    This is what's called "anecdotal evidence" and, in this case, is more
    personal impression than 'evidence'.

    You say you've had 'problems'. I don't doubt you, and sorry to hear it, but
    you haven't given any usable description of what the problems might have
    been, much less any definitive explanation for what caused them.

    You've "read a lot more complaints" about 'A'. This gets back to my
    previous post. Perhaps you remember reading 'more' of them because you're
    convinced there are more of them, so that is what you remember. Maybe you
    remember them because it reminds you of your problem. Maybe you remember
    them because it fits with your already decided prejudice. And then, people
    have 'problems' even when there's nothing wrong, per see, with the
    equipment and maybe there's 'more' of them because more people have those
    drives.

    The bottom line is, what makes you think your reading is representative of
    the real world and what makes you think the people posting a problem knew
    what the real cause was?

    > I have read reports where an identical,
    > RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
    > you something was screwy with the original.

    Yes it does (or that the user 'got it right' the second time), but that is
    certainly no evidence of a 'compatibility problem' because the replacement
    would be just as 'incompatible'.

    > I will not say this is
    > typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
    > many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
    > proof for me.

    I realize that you think it's enough but what I'm trying to explain to you
    is that it's a logic flaw. You're listening to people say "I had a problem,
    adding "oh, me too, me too," without the slightest idea of what the cause
    was; or at least you've not told us a single definitive cause yet. I.E. All
    of the broad generalizations you've presented could just as easily be
    caused by something other than the Maxtor and, IMO, probably were. In fact,
    I gave you an example of a 'compatibility problem' that was a BIOS issue
    and not the fault of Maxtor drives.

    > Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
    > produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
    > having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
    > Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
    > drive.

    "Try a different drive" is not necessarily bad advice, as it might show if
    the drive was defective for some reason, but your logic for arriving at the
    recommendation is seriously flawed; to which you added the generic claim
    that this was a 'built-in problem' of Maxtor drives but have, so far, not
    been able to give a single explanation for it.


    > One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
    > to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
    > platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
    > identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
    > this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
    > will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
    > run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
    > to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.

    That is an entirely different issue (and I wonder how you determined it)
    but it does suggest that your judgment is clouded by a personal dislike for
    Maxtor.


    > David Maynard wrote:
    >
    >> mr potatohead wrote:
    >>
    >>> There are no vague generlizations.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
    >>
    >>> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >>>
    >>> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
    >>> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
    >>> (21,800 hits)
    >>>
    >>> Go figure.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
    >> They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
    >> who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
    >> Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
    >> they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
    >> nothing at all.
    >>
    >> And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
    >> problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
    >> ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
    >> if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
    >> capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
    >> with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
    >> maxtor' was 'the problem'.
    >>
    >> This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
    >> with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
    >> or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
    >> there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
    >>
    >> I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
    >> mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
    >> does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
    >>
    >> It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
    >> drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
    >> (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
    >> umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
    >> causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
    >> has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
    >> correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
    >> your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
    >>
    >> Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
    >> the 'science' news.)
    >>
    >>
    >>> kony wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
    >>>> potatohead"> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
    >>>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
    >>>>> virus. What's your point?
    >>>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
    >>>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
    >>>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
    >>>>
    >>>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
    >>>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
    >>>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
    >>>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
    >>>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
    >>
    >>
    >>
  18. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:01:08 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    wrote:

    >There are no vague generlizations.
    >
    >Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >
    >problem seagate (4,860 hits)
    >problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
    >problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
    >problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
    >
    >Go figure.
    >

    Your claim implied that there was something significant to it being a
    Maxtor. If you have evidence of any specific current generation drive
    (who cares what happened several generations ago, since most brands have
    had minor issues from time to time) that can, today, be confirmed
    incompatible with any piece of equipment that "should" support it, then
    please provide a single instance at least.

    If you can't provide such an instance then it's at best a vague
    generalization that can't be substantiated.

    Who knows, perhaps your geographic region received a bad lot of drives or
    you have an irresponsible deliveryperson who drops them abruptly, but
    anyone buying a maxtor can expect it to be as compatible as any other
    make. I'm not claiming they're the best, nor the worst drives, but
    there's something very fishy going on when a select few people have such
    abysmal results with drive after (Maxtor) drive while so many others have
    failures or other problems no more often than typical rates for other
    makes.
  19. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
    negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
    I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
    the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.

    kony wrote:

    > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:01:08 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >> There are no vague generlizations.
    >>
    >> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >>
    >> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
    >> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
    >> (21,800 hits)
    >>
    >> Go figure.
    >>
    >
    >
    > Your claim implied that there was something significant to it being a
    > Maxtor. If you have evidence of any specific current generation
    > drive (who cares what happened several generations ago, since most
    > brands have had minor issues from time to time) that can, today, be
    > confirmed incompatible with any piece of equipment that "should"
    > support it, then please provide a single instance at least.
    >
    > If you can't provide such an instance then it's at best a vague
    > generalization that can't be substantiated.
    >
    > Who knows, perhaps your geographic region received a bad lot of
    > drives or you have an irresponsible deliveryperson who drops them
    > abruptly, but anyone buying a maxtor can expect it to be as
    > compatible as any other make. I'm not claiming they're the best,
    > nor the worst drives, but there's something very fishy going on when
    > a select few people have such abysmal results with drive after
    > (Maxtor) drive while so many others have failures or other problems
    > no more often than typical rates for other makes.
  20. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    A bare mind is a dangerous thing!

    --
    Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
    For communication,
    replace "at" with the 'at sign'
    replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
    replace "dot" with "."


    "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead"> wrote in message
    news:P5idnfZFFfUi3BrdRVn2iA@giganews.com...
    > While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
    > lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
    > (and I’ve had my own problems). I have read reports where an identical,
    > RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
    > you something was screwy with the original. I will not say this is
    > typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
    > many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
    > proof for me.
    >
    > Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
    > produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
    > having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
    > Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
    > drive.
    >
    > One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
    > to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
    > platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
    > identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
    > this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
    > will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
    > run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
    > to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.
    >
    > David Maynard wrote:
    >
    > > mr potatohead wrote:
    > >
    > >> There are no vague generlizations.
    > >
    > >
    > > Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
    > >
    > >> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    > >>
    > >> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
    > >> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
    > >> (21,800 hits)
    > >>
    > >> Go figure.
    > >
    > >
    > > I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
    > > They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
    > > who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
    > > Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
    > > they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
    > > nothing at all.
    > >
    > > And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
    > > problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
    > > ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
    > > if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
    > > capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
    > > with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
    > > maxtor' was 'the problem'.
    > >
    > > This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
    > > with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
    > > or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
    > > there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
    > >
    > > I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
    > > mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
    > > does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
    > >
    > > It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
    > > drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
    > > (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
    > > umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
    > > causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
    > > has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
    > > correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
    > > your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
    > >
    > > Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
    > > the 'science' news.)
    > >
    > >
    > >> kony wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
    > >>> potatohead"> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
    > >>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
    > >>>> virus. What's your point?
    > >>>>
    > >>>
    > >>>
    > >>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
    > >>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
    > >>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
    > >>>
    > >>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
    > >>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
    > >>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
    > >>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
    > >>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
    > >
    > >
  21. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    broken pins and you 'fixed' them....hmmmm sounds very suspicious. in
    what manner were they broken and how did you fix them? What ribbons
    are you using 40 - 80 pins? If you use the drives separately do they
    get recognized and function? Are they loaded with software and are
    they partitioned, by chance both drives partitions set to active? Is
    the bios configured to 'auto' detect? have you tried to clear the cmos
    and boot without any drives attached then connect them and retry.


    "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
    news:c5sh7p$cqp$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
    > "Jim" wrote :
    > > Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE
    cable
    > oriented
    > > correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the
    black and
    > grey
    > > go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old
    config, it's
    > > doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just
    > installed
    > > it backwards.
    > >
    > > Anyway, just speculating.
    > >
    > > HTH
    > >
    > > Jim
    > >
    >
    > :)
    > I've check the cable orientation couple of times, but the problem is
    not
    > there. There was couple pins on old hard broken, I've fix that and
    now it is
    > working, but the problem with new drive remains. :(
    >
    >
  22. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    :I'm sure the OP appreciates all the *help* he's getting ;-) If he's using
    Win98 I'd suggest using FDISK and select the LBA option then Format.
    --
    Tally Ho!
    Ed Forsythe
    Maryland, USA


    "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
    news:c5qrfk$68q$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
    > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
    when
    > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
    > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
    > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
    > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
    harddisc.
    > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
    > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller
    is
    > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter
    if
    > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
    > What to do??
    > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
    > help.
    > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
    > Thanks!
    >
    >
  23. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:03:07 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
    wrote:

    >Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
    >negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
    >I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
    >the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.
    >


    Ok, fair enough.

    One possibility I suspect is that Maxtor is usually one of the lowest
    priced brands, particularly after rebates. I then wonder if the rest of
    the system one is used in is comprised of similarly low-priced parts,
    particularly case and power supply, so two critical elements, heat and
    power, may be contributing factors if not the primary cause.

    Then again, maybe I'm completely wrong, perhaps our geographic region gets
    drives from factory "X" and those are better than drives from factory
    "Y"... never kept track of where all the drives here were made.
  24. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:19 +1200, "~misfit~"
    <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote:

    >mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead wrote:
    >> There are no vague generlizations.
    >>
    >> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
    >>
    >> problem seagate (4,860 hits)
    >> problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
    >> problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
    >> problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
    >>
    >> Go figure.
    >
    >This is categoric proof that a lot more alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit
    >posters use Maxtor drives than any other brand.

    Could even represent a dialog like:

    User1: My Deathstar goes "clickety click" and no files, is this a problem?

    User2: yes, try to copy off files after putting it in the freezer then
    replace it.

    User1: Are Maxtor any good?

    User2: Yes, and after rebates they're often only 30-70% the price of other
    brands so they sell like hotcakes.
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