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IDE controller problem? Please help!

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 2:58:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
What to do??
I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
help.
The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
Thanks!

More about : ide controller problem

Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 2:58:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

tihi wrote:
> I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
> I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
> and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
> cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
> happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
> I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
> diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
> gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
> they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
> What to do??
> I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
> help.
> The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> Thanks!
>
>
What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
the Jumper settings!
The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 2:58:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:58:28 +0200, "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
wrote:

>I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
>I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
>and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
>cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
>happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
>I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
>diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
>gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
>they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
>What to do??
>I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
>help.
>The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
>Thanks!
>

Try this.....put the new Maxtor as Primary IDE1, DVD as Secondary IDE1
and the old hard disk as Primary IDE2, CDRW as Secondary IDE2.



-
--
Curtis Newton
cnewton@remove-this.akaMail.com
http://surf.to/cnewton
ICQ: 4899169
Anti-Spam filter in place--
<delete remove-this. to respond to email>
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 2:58:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 17 Apr 2004 10:58:28 +0200, "tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
wrote:

>I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
>I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
>and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
>cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
>happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
>I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
>diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
>gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
>they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
>What to do??
>I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
>help.
>The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
>Thanks!
>

Try this.....put the new Maxtor as Primary IDE1, DVD as Secondary IDE1
and the old hard disk as Primary IDE2, CDRW as Secondary IDE2.



-
--
Curtis Newton
cnewton@remove-this.akaMail.com
http://surf.to/cnewton
ICQ: 4899169
Anti-Spam filter in place--
<delete remove-this. to respond to email>
April 17, 2004 3:29:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE cable oriented
correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the black and grey
go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old config, it's
doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just installed
it backwards.

Anyway, just speculating.

HTH

Jim


"tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
news:c5qrfk$68q$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
when
> I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
> and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
> cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
> happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
harddisc.
> I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
> diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller
is
> gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter
if
> they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
> What to do??
> I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
> help.
> The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> Thanks!
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 4:52:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

tihi wrote:

> I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start when
> I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
> and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
> cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
> happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new harddisc.
> I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
> diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
> gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter if
> they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
> What to do??
> I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
> help.
> The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> Thanks!
>
>

Set both hard drives to cable select and put the new one on the end
connector, assuming you want it to be master.

If that doesn't work then try the new drive all alone with none of the
others connected. If it still isn't detected then you may have a bad drive.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 5:25:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> tihi wrote:
> > I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
when
> > I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like
master,
> > and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd
and
> > cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
> > happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
harddisc.
> > I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and
few
> > diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE
controller is
> > gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no
matter if
> > they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
> > What to do??
> > I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that
will
> > help.
> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> > Thanks!
> >
> >
> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
> the Jumper settings!
> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
>
I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
combinations.
The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
harddisc it still wont work!
Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
here!
I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 17, 2004 7:44:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <c5r448$jgm$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, tihi <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
writes
>> tihi wrote:
>> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
>> > Thanks!
>> >
>> >
>> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You probably
>> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check all
>> the Jumper settings!
>> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
>>
>I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
>combinations.
>The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
>harddisc it still wont work!
>Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
>recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
>here!
>I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
>
>
Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 18, 2004 5:57:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <c5sgtk$cmg$1@ls219.htnet.hr>, tihi <tihi@email.hinet.hr>
writes
>> >> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
>> >> > Thanks!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
>probably
>> >> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
>all
>> >> the Jumper settings!
>> >> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
>> >>
>> >I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
>> >combinations.
>> >The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
>> >harddisc it still wont work!
>> >Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
>> >recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the
>case
>> >here!
>> >I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
>> >
>> >
>> Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
>> you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
>> hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
>> are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
>> though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
>> the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
>> connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
>> Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
>> --
>> Peter Ives
>> Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
>
>You have been right. On the old hard two pins were broken. I've fix that and
>the old harddisc is working properly now.
>But the problem with new Maxtor drive still remains. I heard that he is
>spinning, and it is partionaly recognised in BIOS (under IDE settings BIOS
>corectly writes that the primary master is Maxtor, but BIOS can't read its
>size). I've downladed Maxtor aplication for making partitions and formating,
>but this aplication also can't see the drive.
>Is there any special procedure for installing new (large 120M) harddrive?
>
>

Is the BIOS set to AUTO detect all your IDE devices? If not then,
unless you specifically need to do otherwise because your other HD has
an unusual specification, you could do that and hopefully your new HD
will at least be detected.

From that point on you're going to have to get it partitioned and
formatted. There are various ways to do this. If you currently boot to
XP then the partitioning software on that is ok. If you can't get the
Maxtor partitioning software to work (don't know how good it is, never
used it), then you may have to try Fdisk, but make sure it's an up-to-
date version (not the one that comes with win98) that can handle HD up
to 137GB.
--
Peter Ives
Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 18, 2004 6:08:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> >> > The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> >> > Thanks!
> >> >
> >> >
> >> What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
probably
> >> have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
all
> >> the Jumper settings!
> >> The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master
> >>
> >I've done that and check a couple of times. I've tried all posibile
> >combinations.
> >The situation is when I connect everithing like was before purchasing new
> >harddisc it still wont work!
> >Is it possible that IDE controller is partialy broken, and is able to
> >recognise dvd and cd devices, but no harddiscs? Because this is the case
> >here!
> >I've put the new BIOS but nothing is changed..
> >
> >
> Not very likely an IDE partially broken. If what you say is correct and
> you HAVE tried all possibilities (including just plugging the original
> hard drive in on its own on either port and ensuring the jumper settings
> are spot on), then more likely is the hard drive has become damaged,
> though even this seems unlikely. No bent pins anywhere are there? With
> the case open do you hear the HD spin up on boot up? Is the power
> connector to the HD in properly? Recheck absolutely everything.
> Sometimes the obvious can get overlooked.
> --
> Peter Ives
> Remove ALL_STRESS only before sending me an email

You have been right. On the old hard two pins were broken. I've fix that and
the old harddisc is working properly now.
But the problem with new Maxtor drive still remains. I heard that he is
spinning, and it is partionaly recognised in BIOS (under IDE settings BIOS
corectly writes that the primary master is Maxtor, but BIOS can't read its
size). I've downladed Maxtor aplication for making partitions and formating,
but this aplication also can't see the drive.
Is there any special procedure for installing new (large 120M) harddrive?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 18, 2004 6:13:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Jim" wrote :
> Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE cable
oriented
> correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the black and
grey
> go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old config, it's
> doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just
installed
> it backwards.
>
> Anyway, just speculating.
>
> HTH
>
> Jim
>

:) 
I've check the cable orientation couple of times, but the problem is not
there. There was couple pins on old hard broken, I've fix that and now it is
working, but the problem with new drive remains. :( 
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 18, 2004 7:33:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Patrick <pberry26@yahoo.com> wrote:
| tihi wrote:
|| I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems
|| start when I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE
|| channel like master, and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the
|| second IDE channel is dvd and cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS)
|| didn't recognise any device! Same happens when I connect everything
|| like it was before boughting new harddisc. I've tried all possible
|| combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few diferent IDE
|| cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller is
|| gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no
|| matter if they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
|| What to do??
|| I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that
|| will help.
|| The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
|| Thanks!
||
||
| What are the jumper selector settings on the Maxtor drive? You
| probably
| have a conflict in both drive settings being 'Master'? Double check
| all
| the Jumper settings!
| The IBM needs to become Slave, and the Maxtor should be Master

Given that when you only have a couple of drives connected then they are
detected okay, so you seem to be left with one of two possibilities - either
an IDE problem or a power problem.
It might be that your PSU itn't quite managing to supply enough power for
all the drives. Try setting all detection the the BIOS to 'auto' and then
just try one or two drives at a time - in various combinations. Experiment.
If you can isolate the problem to one device then so much the better, or you
might find it is the NUMBER of devices causing the problem. Watch out for
the master/slave settings as you swap drives around and treat the IDE cables
and connectors gently. Try a different IDE cable as well - just in case.
The other thing you might like to try doing is to see if your BIOS has an
option to delay the IDE detection for a few seconds so it can wait while all
the devices 'come up' and report back. I've found this works on some
problematic systems with a full complement of drives. Also, if you are
running the IDE busses faster than ATA-33, or 'auto', try setting them down
to 33 while you get things working for starters. You can always fine-tune
for performance once everything works.
No need to worry about booting to op systems or formatting drives while you
do this - you're trying to get the BIOS to recognise the drives. First
things first.
Kevin.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 21, 2004 2:58:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
wrote:

>So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots have
>downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus. What's
>your point?
>

.... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of a
damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
insufficient power supply or (whatever).

If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there is no
compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular combination that
won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to know exactly what
that combination is, not a vague overgeneralization that's more false than
true.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 21, 2004 3:02:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:39:52 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
wrote:

>"Nonsense", how do you know that? I have seen more people having
>problems with Maxtors not being detected or downright not working. In
>most cases changing to a different drive or even the same drive, but
>different production run solved the problem. I have had my own problems.
>One drive would blue screen in a Windows 9x environment after writing.
>Yet another system, being part for part identical worked properly.
>Yes I tried the drive in a third, different system, same problem.
>Another drive would not be detected.
>

Please cite specific examples.

I know it because there is too much contradictory information, unless
you're using some rare and inadquate system configuration.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 21, 2004 10:01:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

There are no vague generlizations.

Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:

problem seagate (4,860 hits)
problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
problem maxtor (21,800 hits)

Go figure.

kony wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
> wrote:
>
>
>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus.
>> What's your point?
>>
>
>
> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of
> a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
> insufficient power supply or (whatever).
>
> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there
> is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to
> know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 1:04:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

mr potatohead wrote:

> There are no vague generlizations.

Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.

> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>
> problem seagate (4,860 hits)
> problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
> problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
> problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
>
> Go figure.

I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't. They
could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users who have
'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase. Could be they're
more popular among all Abit users too. Could be they're more popular in
general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or nothing at all.

And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives ARE 'the
problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know if they are in
Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100 capable response and
fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor' with a UDMA66 drive could
cause one to erroneously think that 'the maxtor' was 'the problem'.

This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent' with a
'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves', or even
'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if there are no
other possible outcomes from the data.

I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to mention the
possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A' does not 'prove'
that Y is the case.

It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation (e.g.
There is a very strong correlation between people opening umbrellas and the
incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas causes rain. Furthermore, it
can be shown that opening them indoors has a lower correlation; it is
opening them outdoors where the correlation is strongest. So, if you want
it to rain you should open your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.

Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in the
'science' news.)


> kony wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots have
>>> downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single virus. What's
>>> your point?
>>>
>>
>>
>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead of a
>> damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user error,
>> insufficient power supply or (whatever).
>>
>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general there
>> is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular combination
>> that won't work that would be so rare that it's useful to
>> know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 1:04:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
(and I’ve had my own problems). I have read reports where an identical,
RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
you something was screwy with the original. I will not say this is
typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
proof for me.

Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
drive.

One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.

David Maynard wrote:

> mr potatohead wrote:
>
>> There are no vague generlizations.
>
>
> Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
>
>> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>
>> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
>> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
>> (21,800 hits)
>>
>> Go figure.
>
>
> I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
> They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
> who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
> Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
> they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
> nothing at all.
>
> And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
> problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
> ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
> if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
> capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
> with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
> maxtor' was 'the problem'.
>
> This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
> with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
> or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
> there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
>
> I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
> mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
> does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
>
> It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
> drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
> (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
> umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
> causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
> has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
> correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
> your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
>
> Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
> the 'science' news.)
>
>
>> kony wrote:
>>
>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
>>> potatohead"> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
>>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
>>>> virus. What's your point?
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
>>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
>>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
>>>
>>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
>>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
>>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
>>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
>>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 4:10:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

mr potatohead wrote:

> While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
> lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
> (and I’ve had my own problems).

This is what's called "anecdotal evidence" and, in this case, is more
personal impression than 'evidence'.

You say you've had 'problems'. I don't doubt you, and sorry to hear it, but
you haven't given any usable description of what the problems might have
been, much less any definitive explanation for what caused them.

You've "read a lot more complaints" about 'A'. This gets back to my
previous post. Perhaps you remember reading 'more' of them because you're
convinced there are more of them, so that is what you remember. Maybe you
remember them because it reminds you of your problem. Maybe you remember
them because it fits with your already decided prejudice. And then, people
have 'problems' even when there's nothing wrong, per see, with the
equipment and maybe there's 'more' of them because more people have those
drives.

The bottom line is, what makes you think your reading is representative of
the real world and what makes you think the people posting a problem knew
what the real cause was?

> I have read reports where an identical,
> RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
> you something was screwy with the original.

Yes it does (or that the user 'got it right' the second time), but that is
certainly no evidence of a 'compatibility problem' because the replacement
would be just as 'incompatible'.

> I will not say this is
> typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
> many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
> proof for me.

I realize that you think it's enough but what I'm trying to explain to you
is that it's a logic flaw. You're listening to people say "I had a problem,
adding "oh, me too, me too," without the slightest idea of what the cause
was; or at least you've not told us a single definitive cause yet. I.E. All
of the broad generalizations you've presented could just as easily be
caused by something other than the Maxtor and, IMO, probably were. In fact,
I gave you an example of a 'compatibility problem' that was a BIOS issue
and not the fault of Maxtor drives.

> Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
> produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
> having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
> Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
> drive.

"Try a different drive" is not necessarily bad advice, as it might show if
the drive was defective for some reason, but your logic for arriving at the
recommendation is seriously flawed; to which you added the generic claim
that this was a 'built-in problem' of Maxtor drives but have, so far, not
been able to give a single explanation for it.


> One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
> to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
> platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
> identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
> this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
> will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
> run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
> to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.

That is an entirely different issue (and I wonder how you determined it)
but it does suggest that your judgment is clouded by a personal dislike for
Maxtor.


> David Maynard wrote:
>
>> mr potatohead wrote:
>>
>>> There are no vague generlizations.
>>
>>
>>
>> Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
>>
>>> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>>
>>> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
>>> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
>>> (21,800 hits)
>>>
>>> Go figure.
>>
>>
>>
>> I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
>> They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
>> who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
>> Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
>> they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
>> nothing at all.
>>
>> And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
>> problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
>> ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
>> if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
>> capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
>> with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
>> maxtor' was 'the problem'.
>>
>> This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
>> with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
>> or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
>> there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
>>
>> I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
>> mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
>> does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
>>
>> It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
>> drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
>> (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
>> umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
>> causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
>> has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
>> correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
>> your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
>>
>> Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
>> the 'science' news.)
>>
>>
>>> kony wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
>>>> potatohead"> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
>>>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
>>>>> virus. What's your point?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
>>>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
>>>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
>>>>
>>>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
>>>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
>>>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
>>>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
>>>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
>>
>>
>>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 7:14:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:01:08 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
wrote:

>There are no vague generlizations.
>
>Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>
>problem seagate (4,860 hits)
>problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
>problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
>problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
>
>Go figure.
>

Your claim implied that there was something significant to it being a
Maxtor. If you have evidence of any specific current generation drive
(who cares what happened several generations ago, since most brands have
had minor issues from time to time) that can, today, be confirmed
incompatible with any piece of equipment that "should" support it, then
please provide a single instance at least.

If you can't provide such an instance then it's at best a vague
generalization that can't be substantiated.

Who knows, perhaps your geographic region received a bad lot of drives or
you have an irresponsible deliveryperson who drops them abruptly, but
anyone buying a maxtor can expect it to be as compatible as any other
make. I'm not claiming they're the best, nor the worst drives, but
there's something very fishy going on when a select few people have such
abysmal results with drive after (Maxtor) drive while so many others have
failures or other problems no more often than typical rates for other
makes.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 7:14:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.

kony wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 18:01:08 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
> wrote:
>
>
>> There are no vague generlizations.
>>
>> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>
>> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
>> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
>> (21,800 hits)
>>
>> Go figure.
>>
>
>
> Your claim implied that there was something significant to it being a
> Maxtor. If you have evidence of any specific current generation
> drive (who cares what happened several generations ago, since most
> brands have had minor issues from time to time) that can, today, be
> confirmed incompatible with any piece of equipment that "should"
> support it, then please provide a single instance at least.
>
> If you can't provide such an instance then it's at best a vague
> generalization that can't be substantiated.
>
> Who knows, perhaps your geographic region received a bad lot of
> drives or you have an irresponsible deliveryperson who drops them
> abruptly, but anyone buying a maxtor can expect it to be as
> compatible as any other make. I'm not claiming they're the best,
> nor the worst drives, but there's something very fishy going on when
> a select few people have such abysmal results with drive after
> (Maxtor) drive while so many others have failures or other problems
> no more often than typical rates for other makes.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 8:33:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

A bare mind is a dangerous thing!

--
Phil Weldon, pweldonatmindjumpdotcom
For communication,
replace "at" with the 'at sign'
replace "mindjump" with "mindspring."
replace "dot" with "."


"mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead"> wrote in message
news:p 5idnfZFFfUi3BrdRVn2iA@giganews.com...
> While I’m no expert in statistics, what I do know is that I have read a
> lot more complaints regarding Maxtor’s electronics/firmware/interface
> (and I’ve had my own problems). I have read reports where an identical,
> RMA’d replacement or off the shelf replacement worked fine. That tells
> you something was screwy with the original. I will not say this is
> typical, perhaps it’s only 1% or .01%. Regardless, I have not read as
> many complaints with other drives as I have with Maxtors. This is enough
> proof for me.
>
> Bare in mind, we’re not talking bad sectors or click of death. Every mfg
> produces junk from time to time. But the original poster said he was
> having issues interfacing his drive, and sure enough, he was using a
> Maxtor. The advice is simple, based on prior experience, try a different
> drive.
>
> One other thing to be wary about Maxtor is they are not always clear as
> to what you get when you purchase a drive. Is it the high-density one
> platter, or last years, lower density two platter? Yet both may be
> identical in size and stamped with the same exact part number. I find
> this unacceptable. None of the other mfg’s screw with you this way. I
> will take the higher density, two platter any day because I know it will
> run cooler and faster. At least, that's normally the case. I was going
> to buy a Maxtor a while back, but decided not to because of this.
>
> David Maynard wrote:
>
> > mr potatohead wrote:
> >
> >> There are no vague generlizations.
> >
> >
> > Except that what you posted below is a beautiful example of one.
> >
> >> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
> >>
> >> problem seagate (4,860 hits) problem "western digial"
> >> (5,540 hits) problem "quantum" (5,990 hits) problem maxtor
> >> (21,800 hits)
> >>
> >> Go figure.
> >
> >
> > I gather you think those numbers 'prove' something but they don't.
> > They could, for example, simply indicate that, among those Abit users
> > who have 'problems', maxtor drives are the more popular purchase.
> > Could be they're more popular among all Abit users too. Could be
> > they're more popular in general. COULD mean a LOT of things, or
> > nothing at all.
> >
> > And even if it were the case that those posts were Abit users having
> > problems with maxtor drives it doesn't 'prove' that maxtor drives
> > ARE 'the problem'. For example, some UDMA66 BIOS versions (don't know
> > if they are in Abit motherboards) incorrectly interpret the UDMA100
> > capable response and fail because of it so replacing 'the maxtor'
> > with a UDMA66 drive could cause one to erroneously think that 'the
> > maxtor' was 'the problem'.
> >
> > This is a common logic flaw: finding data that 'appears consistent'
> > with a 'theory' and then leaping to the conclusion that it 'proves',
> > or even 'supports', the theory. Such a conclusion is only valid if
> > there are no other possible outcomes from the data.
> >
> > I.E. If X, Y, and Z are all possible outcomes from 'A' (not to
> > mention the possible outcomes you haven't thought of) then seeing 'A'
> > does not 'prove' that Y is the case.
> >
> > It's also one of the most abused logic fallacies; right up there with
> > drawing a cause-effect conclusion from a statistical correlation
> > (e.g. There is a very strong correlation between people opening
> > umbrellas and the incidence of rain therefor: opening umbrellas
> > causes rain. Furthermore, it can be shown that opening them indoors
> > has a lower correlation; it is opening them outdoors where the
> > correlation is strongest. So, if you want it to rain you should open
> > your umbrella outdoors to maximize the effect.
> >
> > Think of that the next time you hear "X has been 'linked' to A" in
> > the 'science' news.)
> >
> >
> >> kony wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 00:41:28 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr
> >>> potatohead"> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> So lots of people have installed XP with out problems. And lots
> >>>> have downloaded off the Internet with out catching a single
> >>>> virus. What's your point?
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ... and some people have a problem and blame the hardware instead
> >>> of a damaged cable or jumper misconfiguration, bios setting, user
> >>> error, insufficient power supply or (whatever).
> >>>
> >>> If you have a specific instance to cite please do. In general
> >>> there is no compatibility problem. If you know of a pariticular
> >>> combination that won't work that would be so rare that it's
> >>> useful to know exactly what that combination is, not a vague
> >>> overgeneralization that's more false than true.
> >
> >
April 22, 2004 9:29:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

broken pins and you 'fixed' them....hmmmm sounds very suspicious. in
what manner were they broken and how did you fix them? What ribbons
are you using 40 - 80 pins? If you use the drives separately do they
get recognized and function? Are they loaded with software and are
they partitioned, by chance both drives partitions set to active? Is
the bios configured to 'auto' detect? have you tried to clear the cmos
and boot without any drives attached then connect them and retry.


"tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
news:c5sh7p$cqp$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> "Jim" wrote :
> > Hmm..., maybe a little too obvious, but you *do* have the IDE
cable
> oriented
> > correctly, right?! (the blue connector goes to the mobo, the
black and
> grey
> > go to the HDs). Considering that when you go back to the old
config, it's
> > doesn't work anymore, this got me to thinking perhaps you've just
> installed
> > it backwards.
> >
> > Anyway, just speculating.
> >
> > HTH
> >
> > Jim
> >
>
> :) 
> I've check the cable orientation couple of times, but the problem is
not
> there. There was couple pins on old hard broken, I've fix that and
now it is
> working, but the problem with new drive remains. :( 
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 1:56:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

:I'm sure the OP appreciates all the *help* he's getting ;-) If he's using
Win98 I'd suggest using FDISK and select the LBA option then Format.
--
Tally Ho!
Ed Forsythe
Maryland, USA


"tihi" <tihi@email.hinet.hr> wrote in message
news:c5qrfk$68q$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> I've bought new harddisc Maxtor Diamondmax plus, and my problems start
when
> I try to insall it. I've connect it on the first IDE channel like master,
> and the old harddisc IBM like slave. On the second IDE channel is dvd and
> cd/rw devices. But the BIOS (AMIBIOS) didn't recognise any device! Same
> happens when I connect everything like it was before boughting new
harddisc.
> I've tried all possible combinations of jumpers on the harddiscs, and few
> diferent IDE cabels, but nothing worked. I've thought that IDE controller
is
> gone, but when I connect only dvd and cd/rw they are recognised no matter
if
> they are on the first or on the secod IDE channel!
> What to do??
> I will try to put new version of BIOS, but somehow I doubt that that will
> help.
> The motherboard is MSI KT3V.
> Thanks!
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 5:35:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:03:07 -0700, "mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead">
wrote:

>Okay, this is funny now. This isn't about "proving hard drive mfg
>negligence". Shoot, in a court of law, I would lose, I know that. All's
>I'm saying is I have seen this sort of thing with Maxtors more so than
>the others. That's enough proof for me to say, it is possibly the drive.
>


Ok, fair enough.

One possibility I suspect is that Maxtor is usually one of the lowest
priced brands, particularly after rebates. I then wonder if the rest of
the system one is used in is comprised of similarly low-priced parts,
particularly case and power supply, so two critical elements, heat and
power, may be contributing factors if not the primary cause.

Then again, maybe I'm completely wrong, perhaps our geographic region gets
drives from factory "X" and those are better than drives from factory
"Y"... never kept track of where all the drives here were made.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b K Overclocking
April 22, 2004 5:44:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 18:28:19 +1200, "~misfit~"
<misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote:

>mr potatohead" <"mr potatohead wrote:
>> There are no vague generlizations.
>>
>> Do a search on google groups at alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit:
>>
>> problem seagate (4,860 hits)
>> problem "western digial" (5,540 hits)
>> problem "quantum" (5,990 hits)
>> problem maxtor (21,800 hits)
>>
>> Go figure.
>
>This is categoric proof that a lot more alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit
>posters use Maxtor drives than any other brand.

Could even represent a dialog like:

User1: My Deathstar goes "clickety click" and no files, is this a problem?

User2: yes, try to copy off files after putting it in the freezer then
replace it.

User1: Are Maxtor any good?

User2: Yes, and after rebates they're often only 30-70% the price of other
brands so they sell like hotcakes.
!