Dual Duron vs. P4 on the cheapo budget

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Hi,
I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons, but
then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and overclock the hell
out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is it worth it, especially
on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?

Thanks for any advice, love flekso!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote in message
news:ckjo2p$2p6$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> Hi,
> I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons, but
> then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and overclock the
> hell
> out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is it worth it, especially
> on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?
>
> Thanks for any advice, love flekso!
>
>
>
Overclocking a 24/7 server never seemed like a good idea to me.

What are you planning to run on the machine? If its anything other than AD
you realy dont need that much power. Currently, i run a PHP webserver on a
dual P2 233MHz with 512Mb of PC100

hamman

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Hamman" <none@example.com> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
grupi:w7udnSdTgNMI-_DcRVn-pQ@eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote in message
> news:ckjo2p$2p6$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
>> Hi,
>> I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons, but
>> then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and overclock the
>> hell
>> out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is it worth it,
>> especially
>> on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?
>>
>> Thanks for any advice, love flekso!
>>
>>
>>
> Overclocking a 24/7 server never seemed like a good idea to me.
>
> What are you planning to run on the machine? If its anything other than AD
> you realy dont need that much power. Currently, i run a PHP webserver on a
> dual P2 233MHz with 512Mb of PC100
>
> hamman
>

Yeah, but this one is running Server 2003 and has one user determined to
bring its RAM & CPU resources to its knees.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote in message
news:cklhrd$99a$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
> "Hamman" <none@example.com> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
> grupi:w7udnSdTgNMI-_DcRVn-pQ@eclipse.net.uk...
>>
>> "flekso" <flekso@vip.hr> wrote in message
>> news:ckjo2p$2p6$1@ls219.htnet.hr...
>>> Hi,
>>> I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons,
>>> but
>>> then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and overclock the
>>> hell
>>> out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is it worth it,
>>> especially
>>> on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?
>>>
>>> Thanks for any advice, love flekso!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Overclocking a 24/7 server never seemed like a good idea to me.
>>
>> What are you planning to run on the machine? If its anything other than
>> AD you realy dont need that much power. Currently, i run a PHP webserver
>> on a dual P2 233MHz with 512Mb of PC100
>>
>> hamman
>>
>
> Yeah, but this one is running Server 2003 and has one user determined to
> bring its RAM & CPU resources to its knees.
>
Then i'd go for the dual durons

hamman

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

flekso wrote:
> Hi,
> I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons,
> but then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and
> overclock the hell out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is
> it worth it, especially on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?

Depends what applications you're running. You should be able to get the
durons to 2.1 GHz without too much of a problem, though you will have to
fiddle some bridges and use a BIOS plugin to get much over 1.9 GHz (Duron
1800's) or 1.7GHz (Duron 1600) as the multipliers are locked and Windows
can't handle PowerNow transitions while in SMP mode. 4.2GHz of duron power
will need a quite hefty overclock on the P4 to match it in most "server"
applications, though the usual Athlon/P4 performance differences apply as
per usual.

You mentioned you had one user who was stressing the server quite hard, and
going to a SMP setup would probably (though dependent on the application)
improve responsiveness for the other users.

But more information is really needed on what the server is running, what
you have at the moment, etc.

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Michael Brown" <see@signature.below> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
grupi:Wssbd.584$0O.25983@news.xtra.co.nz...
> flekso wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I was thinking about getting a dual Athlon mobo and a pair of Durons,
>> but then a thought occurred: I could get a new 865 board and
>> overclock the hell out of an old Northwood 2.0,,, or could I ? And is
>> it worth it, especially on a ?server? on a 3-node LAN ?
>
> Depends what applications you're running. You should be able to get the
> durons to 2.1 GHz without too much of a problem, though you will have to
> fiddle some bridges and use a BIOS plugin to get much over 1.9 GHz (Duron
> 1800's) or 1.7GHz (Duron 1600) as the multipliers are locked and Windows
> can't handle PowerNow transitions while in SMP mode. 4.2GHz of duron power
> will need a quite hefty overclock on the P4 to match it in most "server"
> applications, though the usual Athlon/P4 performance differences apply as
> per usual.
>
> You mentioned you had one user who was stressing the server quite hard,
> and
> going to a SMP setup would probably (though dependent on the application)
> improve responsiveness for the other users.
>
> But more information is really needed on what the server is running, what
> you have at the moment, etc.
>
> --
> Michael Brown
> www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
> Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
>
>

That's about the same line of thought I went on, except I had no trouble
changing the multiplier(or cache) on my home Duron 1600 (Fab 51), but just
for the heck of it I would like to know how far do these old Northwoods go
anyway, I mean they're based on the same core as the 533/800 counterparts,
so what happens if I throw one 2.0 in 865 at 800fsb ???

 

[Thomas]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

> That's about the same line of thought I went on, except I had no
> trouble changing the multiplier(or cache) on my home Duron 1600 (Fab
> 51), but just for the heck of it I would like to know how far do
> these old Northwoods go anyway, I mean they're based on the same core
> as the 533/800 counterparts, so what happens if I throw one 2.0 in
> 865 at 800fsb ???

Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble getting it
even one MHz above 2666...

Thomas.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Thomas" <thomas_@lycos.nl> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
grupi:ckto7e$ru7$1@reader11.wxs.nl...
>> That's about the same line of thought I went on, except I had no
>> trouble changing the multiplier(or cache) on my home Duron 1600 (Fab
>> 51), but just for the heck of it I would like to know how far do
>> these old Northwoods go anyway, I mean they're based on the same core
>> as the 533/800 counterparts, so what happens if I throw one 2.0 in
>> 865 at 800fsb ???
>
> Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble getting
> it
> even one MHz above 2666...
>
> Thomas.
>
>

Was that on 845 or 865 ?

 

[Thomas]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

flekso wrote:
>> Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble
>> getting it
>> even one MHz above 2666...
>>
>>
>
> Was that on 845 or 865 ?

875P

Thomas

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Thomas" <thomas_@lycos.nl> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
grupi:clg6t1$lm4$1@reader13.wxs.nl...
> flekso wrote:
>>> Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble
>>> getting it
>>> even one MHz above 2666...
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Was that on 845 or 865 ?
>
> 875P
>
> Thomas
>

Why is that ?
I mean, it's virtually the same core as 2.4 or 2.8, so no reason not to
clock at 3 GHz or more, or is there (maybe it's FSB) ?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

flekso wrote:
> "Thomas" <thomas_@lycos.nl> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
> grupi:clg6t1$lm4$1@reader13.wxs.nl...
>> flekso wrote:
>>>> Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble
>>>> getting it
>>>> even one MHz above 2666...
>>>
>>> Was that on 845 or 865 ?
>>
>> 875P
>
> Why is that ?
> I mean, it's virtually the same core as 2.4 or 2.8, so no reason not
> to clock at 3 GHz or more, or is there (maybe it's FSB) ?

Tis the same reason why most 1600+ Palominos at 1.4GHz won't have a hope of
getting to 2100+ speeds of 1.733GHz without insane cooling and voltage
increases. The lower-rated chips are often rated lower for a reason (ie:
come off a worse part of the wafer, hasn't passed tests at the higher
frequencies, etc), though you may get the occaisional chip that can get that
far. You can't say "Intel sells Northwood cores running at 3.4GHz, therefore
all Northwood cores can run at 3.4GHz". It just doesn't work that way.

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Michael Brown" <see@signature.below> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
grupi:BxVed.944$lF1.42062@news.xtra.co.nz...
> flekso wrote:
>> "Thomas" <thomas_@lycos.nl> je napisao u poruci interesnoj
>> grupi:clg6t1$lm4$1@reader13.wxs.nl...
>>> flekso wrote:
>>>>> Well, it sure won't boot at 800 MHz FSB. In my case i had trouble
>>>>> getting it
>>>>> even one MHz above 2666...
>>>>
>>>> Was that on 845 or 865 ?
>>>
>>> 875P
>>
>> Why is that ?
>> I mean, it's virtually the same core as 2.4 or 2.8, so no reason not
>> to clock at 3 GHz or more, or is there (maybe it's FSB) ?
>
> Tis the same reason why most 1600+ Palominos at 1.4GHz won't have a hope
> of
> getting to 2100+ speeds of 1.733GHz without insane cooling and voltage
> increases. The lower-rated chips are often rated lower for a reason (ie:
> come off a worse part of the wafer, hasn't passed tests at the higher
> frequencies, etc), though you may get the occaisional chip that can get
> that
> far. You can't say "Intel sells Northwood cores running at 3.4GHz,
> therefore
> all Northwood cores can run at 3.4GHz". It just doesn't work that way.
>
> --
> Michael Brown
> www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
> Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open
>
>

But how can there be a defect that only causes frequency deviation between
chips ?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

flekso wrote:
[...]
> But how can there be a defect that only causes frequency deviation
> between chips?

CPU manufacture (or any IC manufacture) is a very complicated thing that I
only know the rough outline of how it works. So take the following with a
grain of salt and wait to see if one of the experts (Keith, etc) gives a
better explanation

The long and short of it is that it's far from a precise science. You have
tiny (down to single-atom) defects in the silicon crystal that you're
operating on, and litography isn't to the point of being atomically precise.
So you get a variation in track widths and in the underlying crystal, which
makes each chip unique. These variations (if they don't render the chip DOA)
mainly affect capacitance and resistance of the transistors and the
interconnect. The resistance mainly affects the heat output of the chip,
though does also have an effect on the switching time of the transistors.
The capacitance has a direct impact on the switching time. This effectively
means that the transistors switch slower than average in an area with a
defect. The switch time of the slowest transistor dictates the maximum speed
at which the chip will operate.

--
Michael Brown
www.emboss.co.nz : OOS/RSI software and more
Add michael@ to emboss.co.nz - My inbox is always open