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Pentium 2.4B/533o n 875 chipset MB

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Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
January 12, 2005 4:22:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

I have a Pentium 4 2.4 B /533 Northwood CPU and 1 Gig of OCZ DDR500 Gold Rev
2 dual channel memory running on a GA-8PE667 Ultra Gigabyte Mb with an Intel
845PE chipset. The Fsb is at 167 and Cpu running at 3.0 Ghz Solid.

To use the full capabilities of the DDR500 ram I would like to upgrade to an
Intel 875 chipset MB with Dual channel ram capability.

My question is, Will my 2.4 B/533 cpu run on a MB with an 800 buss speed?
if so any recommendations for a good MB with raid onboard.

--
Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
January 12, 2005 7:27:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message...
>I have a Pentium 4 2.4 B /533 Northwood CPU and 1 Gig of OCZ
> DDR500 Gold Rev 2 dual channel memory running

Take it that this memory is actually two 512MB DIMMs? There's not really
any such thing as memory that's inherently "dual channel" - there's a lot of
marketeering going on there.

> To use the full capabilities of the DDR500 ram I would like to upgrade
> to an Intel 875 chipset MB with Dual channel ram capability.

You're not going to be able to use the full capabilities of your memory
with this CPU, no matter what motherboard you use. To get the best out of
DDR500 you'd need a processor capable of being overclocked into the
250-260MHz FSB area - like a 2.4C, 2.6C or a really sweet 2.8C.

> My question is, Will my 2.4 B/533 cpu run on a MB with an 800 buss
> speed?

Yes, of course it'll run. 875P boards are backwards compatible with 533 and
(Northwood) 400FSB CPU's, but to get the most out of your memory you'd need
it running at 250MHz FSB (or a little faster), which your processor
obviously isn't capable of.

What you should be able to do is run your memory bus asynchronously, with
the memory running *faster* than the FSB, at either a 4:5 or 3:4 ratio. If
we also assume that your CPU will run a little faster than it does at the
moment, you could end up running an FSB in the 167-180MHz range, which will
give you a maximum memory bus (with the 3:4 multiplier) of between 223 and
240MHz.

Unfortunately you won't be able to use all that memory bandwidth, due to the
lower FSB constraining the P4's bus, but the overall effect of the upgrade
should be an easily noticeable performance boost, assuming of course that
you have a pair of DIMMs right now.

> if so any recommendations for a good MB with raid onboard.

Personal experience is that Abit's IC7-G or IC7 Max3 are excellent products.
If you don't need legacy serial or parallel ports, the Max3 version is even
more overclockable, more stable. If you do, the -G is 99% as good. Daresay
you'll get equally good reports about Asus' and other manufacturers' boards,
primarily because 875P is a bloody good, now well proven chipset and so it's
relatively easy to build a good board with it.

Most 875 boards will have at least one RAID controller, as most will be sold
with Intel's own ICH5R southbridge, which has SATA-RAID built in. Many also
have additional PCI controllers, although you should use the Intel one first
due to its PCI bypass function. Possibly worth pointing out though that if
you're running a RAID array on your current board, you will almost certainly
need to recreate it, while if you have parallel ATA disks, you'll obviously
need converters to use them on the Intel (or any other make of) SATA
controller.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Anonymous
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January 12, 2005 10:39:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

The 875 and 865 chipset boards will work with your CPU but you more than likely
wont get to 200 FSB. I have the KNXP board and it works very well. DOUG
Related resources
Anonymous
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a b K Overclocking
January 12, 2005 10:42:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

Richard, Thank you very much for the timely and concise information


"Richard Hopkins" <richh@dsl.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:41e54fec$0$16573$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
> "Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message...
>>I have a Pentium 4 2.4 B /533 Northwood CPU and 1 Gig of OCZ
>> DDR500 Gold Rev 2 dual channel memory running
>
> Take it that this memory is actually two 512MB DIMMs? There's not really
> any such thing as memory that's inherently "dual channel" - there's a lot
> of
> marketeering going on there.

Yes, two 512 MB sticks Gold rev 2 rated at 2.5-3-3-7 supposedly matched (
sold as kit by OCZ).

>> To use the full capabilities of the DDR500 ram I would like to upgrade
>> to an Intel 875 chipset MB with Dual channel ram capability.
>
> You're not going to be able to use the full capabilities of your memory
> with this CPU, no matter what motherboard you use. To get the best out of
> DDR500 you'd need a processor capable of being overclocked into the
> 250-260MHz FSB area - like a 2.4C, 2.6C or a really sweet 2.8C.

Yes, I understand.

>
>> My question is, Will my 2.4 B/533 cpu run on a MB with an 800 buss
>> speed?
>
> Yes, of course it'll run. 875P boards are backwards compatible with 533
> and
> (Northwood) 400FSB CPU's, but to get the most out of your memory you'd
> need
> it running at 250MHz FSB (or a little faster), which your processor
> obviously isn't capable of.

Yes, My 2.4 B tops out at 172 on the 8PE667 ultra board at 1.600 volts.

>
> What you should be able to do is run your memory bus asynchronously, with
> the memory running *faster* than the FSB, at either a 4:5 or 3:4 ratio. If
> we also assume that your CPU will run a little faster than it does at the
> moment, you could end up running an FSB in the 167-180MHz range, which
> will give you a maximum memory bus (with the 3:4 multiplier) of between
> 223 and
> 240MHz.

The Gigabyte board has a Host/Dram clock ratio of 2.0 or 2.5 which I am
using at 2.5 for a memory clock speed of 209 or 418 effective.

>
> Unfortunately you won't be able to use all that memory bandwidth, due to
> the
> lower FSB constraining the P4's bus, but the overall effect of the upgrade
> should be an easily noticeable performance boost, assuming of course that
> you have a pair of DIMMs right now.
>
>> if so any recommendations for a good MB with raid onboard.
>
> Personal experience is that Abit's IC7-G or IC7 Max3 are excellent
> products.
> If you don't need legacy serial or parallel ports, the Max3 version is
> even
> more overclockable, more stable. If you do, the -G is 99% as good. Daresay
> you'll get equally good reports about Asus' and other manufacturers'
> boards,
> primarily because 875P is a bloody good, now well proven chipset and so
> it's
> relatively easy to build a good board with it.

No, I don't need serial or parallel ports at all, USB and 1394 cover my
needs.
The The Abit IC7-G and the Asus P4C-800 deluxe are available here in
Winnipeg.

>
> Most 875 boards will have at least one RAID controller, as most will be
> sold
> with Intel's own ICH5R southbridge, which has SATA-RAID built in. Many
> also
> have additional PCI controllers, although you should use the Intel one
> first
> due to its PCI bypass function. Possibly worth pointing out though that if
> you're running a RAID array on your current board, you will almost
> certainly
> need to recreate it, while if you have parallel ATA disks, you'll
> obviously
> need converters to use them on the Intel (or any other make of) SATA
> controller.

Yes, running a Raid 0 on the onboard Promise 20276 raid controller but when
I upgrade M/Bs I always reformat and do a fresh install of the OS (XP-SP2)
in this case. maybe extra work, but I find I get a much more stable system .
Anyway I have plenty of time, I'm 71 and retired.
> --
>
>
> Richard Hopkins
> Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
> (replace .nospam with .com in reply address)
>
> The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
>
>

So my choices are as follows.

Purchace an 875P based M/B now,
Purchace a P4 2.6-2.8 C a little later as funds permit.
OR wait a little longer and go for Socket LGA 775 on a 925X board with a new
CPU and DDR2 memory (much more expensive) but maybe I can get lucky and sell
my existing setup.

Again thanking you for your time and valuable advice.

Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 12, 2005 10:48:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Courseyauto" <courseyauto@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050112143932.26619.00000054@mb-m11.aol.com...
> The 875 and 865 chipset boards will work with your CPU but you more than
> likely
> wont get to 200 FSB. I have the KNXP board and it works very well. DOUG

Thanks Doug, Yes you are correct See Richard's post and my reply.

Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2005 5:42:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message...
> Yes, two 512 MB sticks Gold rev 2 rated at 2.5-3-3-7 supposedly
> matched (sold as kit by OCZ).

This "matched" business is where the marketing kicks in. In most cases
"matched" means they're two sticks of memory that come off the assembly line
one after the other. Given the uniformity of performance of modern memory,
you'd likely get as good as the same effect buying two single DIMMs out of
the same box in the shop, although if buying two sticks together resulted in
them being cheaper, it was a good deal.

> Yes, My 2.4 B tops out at 172 on the 8PE667 ultra board at 1.600 volts.

If your temps are well under control, you can probably go a little higher
than 1.600 without risking the chip's life to any noticeable extent.

> The Gigabyte board has a Host/Dram clock ratio of 2.0 or 2.5 which
> I am using at 2.5 for a memory clock speed of 209 or 418 effective.

Yeah, these 2.0 and 2.5 ratios equate in Abit speak to 1:1 and 4:5
respectively.

> No, I don't need serial or parallel ports at all, USB and 1394 cover my
> needs.

....In which case the IC7 Max3 would suit you down to the ground.

> The The Abit IC7-G and the Asus P4C-800 deluxe are available here in
> Winnipeg.

IIRC the P4C800 series doesn't have the Intel CSA Gigabit ethernet
controller, uses a PCI solution instead. While this isn't a huge omission,
it's still a bit of a cheap move on what is supposedly a high end board.

> Yes, running a Raid 0 on the onboard Promise 20276 raid controller but
> when I upgrade M/Bs I always reformat and do a fresh install of the OS in
> this case. maybe extra work, but I find I get a much more stable system .

That's a good habit to have. In this case you may just about get away
without having to do a full reinstall, but as you say, taking this step
anyway will likely pay dividends in the longer run.

> So my choices are as follows.
>
> Purchace an 875P based M/B now,
> Purchace a P4 2.6-2.8 C a little later as funds permit.
> OR wait a little longer and go for Socket LGA 775 on a 925X board with
> a new CPU and DDR2 memory (much more expensive) but maybe I can get
> lucky and sell my existing setup.

The one thing I'd tend to advise against would be going for the Socket
775/925/DDR2 solution at this time. Putting it bluntly, the current range of
Socket 775 CPU's and DDR2 memory simply doesn't perform well enough to
justify its existence if you have access to an 875/Northwood "C"/fast DDR
solution.

You've already got very good memory, so shelling out again to get some
(likely slower) DDR2 sticks doesn't seem like a good exchange. If you can
get hold of a good 875/865 and Northwood HT CPU now (or soonish), this setup
will last you a good long time - more than long enough to see you through
the period of platform instability that we're currently in the early stages
of.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2005 6:49:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Richard Hopkins" <richh@dsl.nospam.com> wrote in message
news:41e688c9$0$19160$cc9e4d1f@news-text.dial.pipex.com...
> "Rene Lamontagne" wrote in message...
>> Yes, two 512 MB sticks Gold rev 2 rated at 2.5-3-3-7 supposedly
>> matched (sold as kit by OCZ).
>
> This "matched" business is where the marketing kicks in. In most cases
> "matched" means they're two sticks of memory that come off the assembly
> line one after the other. Given the uniformity of performance of modern
> memory, you'd likely get as good as the same effect buying two single
> DIMMs out of the same box in the shop, although if buying two sticks
> together resulted in them being cheaper, it was a good deal.

Yes, 2 sticks with the same specs is about it, The deal was an RMA on 2
sticks of PC 3500 which would not play together, They did not have any in
stock so they sent me this PC 4000 kit instead. (which was decent of Them).

>
>> Yes, My 2.4 B tops out at 172 on the 8PE667 ultra board at 1.600 volts.

Will
>
> If your temps are well under control, you can probably go a little higher
> than 1.600 without risking the chip's life to any noticeable extent.

Yes, temps are good, 35 Deg C at idle and 52 Deg C at full load, Stock intel
cooler, will bump it up some more.

>
>> The Gigabyte board has a Host/Dram clock ratio of 2.0 or 2.5 which
>> I am using at 2.5 for a memory clock speed of 209 or 418 effective.
>
> Yeah, these 2.0 and 2.5 ratios equate in Abit speak to 1:1 and 4:5
> respectively.
>
>> No, I don't need serial or parallel ports at all, USB and 1394 cover my
>> needs.
>
> ...In which case the IC7 Max3 would suit you down to the ground.
>
>> The The Abit IC7-G and the Asus P4C-800 deluxe are available here in
>> Winnipeg.
>
> IIRC the P4C800 series doesn't have the Intel CSA Gigabit ethernet
> controller, uses a PCI solution instead. While this isn't a huge omission,
> it's still a bit of a cheap move on what is supposedly a high end board.
>
>> Yes, running a Raid 0 on the onboard Promise 20276 raid controller but
>> when I upgrade M/Bs I always reformat and do a fresh install of the OS in
>> this case. maybe extra work, but I find I get a much more stable system .
>
> That's a good habit to have. In this case you may just about get away
> without having to do a full reinstall, but as you say, taking this step
> anyway will likely pay dividends in the longer run.
>
>> So my choices are as follows.
>>
>> Purchace an 875P based M/B now,
>> Purchace a P4 2.6-2.8 C a little later as funds permit.
>> OR wait a little longer and go for Socket LGA 775 on a 925X board with
>> a new CPU and DDR2 memory (much more expensive) but maybe I can get
>> lucky and sell my existing setup.
>
> The one thing I'd tend to advise against would be going for the Socket
> 775/925/DDR2 solution at this time. Putting it bluntly, the current range
> of Socket 775 CPU's and DDR2 memory simply doesn't perform well enough to
> justify its existence if you have access to an 875/Northwood "C"/fast DDR
> solution.
>
> You've already got very good memory, so shelling out again to get some
> (likely slower) DDR2 sticks doesn't seem like a good exchange. If you can
> get hold of a good 875/865 and Northwood HT CPU now (or soonish), this
> setup will last you a good long time - more than long enough to see you
> through the period of platform instability that we're currently in the
> early stages

I agrree, The socket 775 would be expensive and further I'm not sure I like
the mechanical structure of the inverted socket and pin setup, (I may be
wrong) Seems like a poor idea.
I think i will pick up an 875 board, probably the Abit IC7 and get the new
cpu in the spring, I hate to give up this new DDR500 memory, only a week
old.

> of.
> --
>
>
> Richard Hopkins
> Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
> (replace .nospam with .com in reply address)
>
> The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
>
>

Thanks again for your input Richard, I really appreciate your expertise.


--
Regards, Rene Lamontagne
Anonymous
a b à CPUs
a b K Overclocking
January 13, 2005 7:14:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.overclocking (More info?)

"Rene Lamontagne" <rlamont@shaw.ca> wrote in message
news:2MwFd.67852$8l.37644@pd7tw1no...
> Yes, 2 sticks with the same specs is about it, The deal was an
> RMA on 2 sticks of PC 3500 which would not play together,
> They did not have any in stock so they sent me this PC 4000
> kit instead. (which was decent of Them).

That's a handy exchange. :-)

> Yes, temps are good, 35 Deg C at idle and 52 Deg C at full load, Stock
> intel cooler, will bump it up some more.

Keep an eye on those load temps though. 52 is okay but I wouldn't let it go
much higher before looking at a more effective thermal solution.

> I agrree, The socket 775 would be expensive and further I'm not
> sure I like the mechanical structure of the inverted socket and pin
> setup, (I may be wrong) Seems like a poor idea.

Given the requirement to have 775 pins in the first place, the LGA solution
is a better way of doing it than ZIF, I don't have any fundamental problem
with Intel for adopting this design.

The problem I do have with LGA775 right now is that going with this form
factor also ties you into a Prescott. From a performance/overclocking point
of view there's little point buying one when you still have the option of a
Northwood "C", a chip that offers better clock for clock performance in
conjunction with lower power consumption, lower heat output and similar
(overclocked) clock speed ceilings.

When you add this to the fact that you will almost certainly be unable to
run Intel's forthcoming dual core LGA775 CPU's on the current range of
915/925 motherboards, and that DDR main memory currently offers a much
better price/performance delta than DDR2, IMO going Prescott/925/DDR2 now
would have offered you negligible performance gains for a high level of
investment, and without any real additional amount of future proofing to
justify the cost.

> I think i will pick up an 875 board, probably the Abit IC7 and get the new
> cpu in the spring, I hate to give up this new DDR500
> memory, only a week old.

Yeah, definitely. Only thing to be aware of is the Northwood CPU supply
situation. These are getting increasingly scarce in the channel, so if you
want one, it may be better to jump sooner than wait for the time they're
rare enough to start selling at a premium.
--


Richard Hopkins
Cardiff, Wales, United Kingdom
(replace .nospam with .com in reply address)

The UK's leading technology reseller www.dabs.com
!