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CPU thermal paste?

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Anonymous
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April 26, 2004 11:02:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no longer
sticking.

Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink in place
(vertically)?

More about : cpu thermal paste

Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 1:45:50 AM

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Ablang <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> pawed at the
keyboard to spell out:

> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no longer
>sticking.
>
> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
>perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink in place
>(vertically)?


I don't know about buying the paste, but if your fan and heat sink
keep falling off your CPU, you got whole bigger problems than
non-sticky grease, my friend!!

--
The Seabat
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 2:03:31 AM

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"Ablang" said in news:njfr8092dv496e9gjh1i9bdd4fm98todon@4ax.com:
> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
> keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is
> no longer sticking.
>
> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
> perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan &
> heatsink in place (vertically)?

Thermal paste does NOT stick anything together! It is used to fill in
the microscopic gaps in the microscopic irregular surface to provide
maximum thermal transfer between two mating surfaces.

Thermal *adhesive* is used to permanently bond a heatsink to a chip's
heat plate. Thermal adhesive does not have a high a thermal transfer
rate as thermal paste (unless you get really poor grade paste). If the
thermal paste has degenerated (which means it wasn't mixed in proper
proportion or some chemical destroyed it), you'll have to clean both
surfaces and use new thermal adhesive.

Thermal paste is best for thermal transfer. If there is a means of
mechanically affixing the heatsink through the use of clips or pins then
use them and thermal paste. If there is no means to affix the heatsink
other than to glue it, get some thermal adhesive (and, obviously, clean
the surfaces before attempting to re-glue the parts - and follow the
instructions!).

Thermal paste comes in various qualities depending on how much you want
to spend for what rate of thermal transfer. Artic Silver 5 is probably
the best although Artic Silver 3 is near as good. If you're thinking of
overclocking then use those. Otherwise, Artic Ceramic, Artic Alumina,
and many of the branded compounds are okay for normal use.
http://snipurl.com/5z6r has some paste and adhesive products, but you
can find it all over at lots of online vendors and in stores.

Make sure you clean off the old paste thoroughly. Use isopropyl alcohol
and Q-tips to scrub the surface and clean it completely. Don't leave
behind any threads from the Q-tips. Don't touch the cleaned heatsink
and CPU surfaces due to the oil on your fingers; if you touch them,
clean again with isopropyl. Just don't goop the thermal paste/adhesive
on so it is a thick layer. Neither conduct heat as well as metal. You
want as much metal-to-metal contact as possible with the paste/adhesive
filling in the microscopic gaps or due to a mismatch in concavity in the
surfaces. Put a dot in the middle and spread out with a thin and flat
piece of plastic or stiff thick paper stock. It should look transparent
when applied thinly, leaving only about a 1/32-inch uniform layer.
Press and moosh the heatsink around in circles to squeeze out as much
extra paste as possible and to remove air bubbles.

http://www.pcstats.com/articleview.cfm?articleID=378

http://www.articsilver.com/instructions.htm
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Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 7:37:33 AM

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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
<HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:

> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no longer
>sticking.
>
> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
>perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink in place
>(vertically)?

Generally a heatsink clip is used. Socket 7 sockets always have heatsink
clip lugs.
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 10:46:04 AM

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On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang wrote:

> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
> keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no
> longer sticking.
>
The thermal paste isn't supposed to stick. That's not what it's for. There
should be a clip on the cpu cooler that attaches to thenubs on 2 sides of
the socket to hold the HS in place. If your cooler doesn't have this, then
you've got the wrong cooler.

> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
> perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink
> in place (vertically)?

I'll give you one. I've got several and no use for them anymore. You pay
postage from Texas. Or stop by and pick one up for free.:-)

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 1:21:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ablang <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote in message news:<njfr8092dv496e9gjh1i9bdd4fm98todon@4ax.com>...

> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan &
> heatsink keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that
> the thermal paste is no longer sticking.
>
>Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this
> cheap, or perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping
> the fan & heatsink in place (vertically)?

A 300 MHz K6-2 is not the world's hottest chip and doesn't need any
special thermal adhesive, but ignore hacks who tell you to apply
thermal grease in the enter and a drop of super glue in each corner or
mix thermal grease with epoxy, both bad remedies.

Thoroughly clean off the heatsink and the metal part of the chip
package with alcohol, then glue them back together with ordinary
silicone rubber sealant (RTV). Apply a thin layer of RTV all over the
mating surface, just as you would apply thermal grease, by pressing
the heatsink firmly and sliding it around slightly to spread the RTV
and squeeze out the excess. Keep the chip horizontal for an hour, and
handle it gently for the next 8 hours.

Regular epoxy can be used instead and applied the same way, but the
drawbacks to any epoxy are that it runs and drips and the heatsink
will be much harder to remove later on, while RTV remains so soft that
it can be easily cut with a knife yet sticks very well.
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 7:03:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Wes Newell wrote:
> The thermal paste isn't supposed to stick. That's not what it's for. There
> should be a clip on the cpu cooler that attaches to thenubs on 2 sides of
> the socket to hold the HS in place. If your cooler doesn't have this, then
> you've got the wrong cooler.

Not all cpu heatsinks were clipped on. The socket /should/ have clips
on it, but older cpus (notably the DX2-66 overdrive) just have small
heatsinks stuck on with thermal adhesive (horrible stuff). Given that
there are clips on the socket, there should be no problem attaching a
new HSF.

--
-Luke-
If cars had advanced at the same rate as Micr0$oft technology, they'd be
flying by now.
But who wants a car that crashes 8 times a day?
Registered Linux User #345134
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 9:41:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
<HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:

> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no longer
>sticking.

Thermal paste don't really sticky like glue and it is more like
toothpaste.
If you fan/heatsink keeps on falling, try to get a replacement (a socket
7 fan/heatsink).

--
WebWalker
webwalker@eudoramail.com
PGP Key ID : 0xB3F1A279
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 11:18:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:03:39 +0800, beav AT wn DoT com DoT au wrote:

> Wes Newell wrote:
>> The thermal paste isn't supposed to stick. That's not what it's for. There
>> should be a clip on the cpu cooler that attaches to thenubs on 2 sides of
>> the socket to hold the HS in place. If your cooler doesn't have this, then
>> you've got the wrong cooler.
>
> Not all cpu heatsinks were clipped on. The socket /should/ have clips
> on it, but older cpus (notably the DX2-66 overdrive) just have small
> heatsinks stuck on with thermal adhesive (horrible stuff). Given that
> there are clips on the socket, there should be no problem attaching a
> new HSF.

But he doesn't have a a 486 cpu. he's got a K6-2-300 Pentium class and it
fits in a socket7. The proper cooler will have a spring clip that
attaches to the nubs of the socket.

--
Abit KT7-Raid (KT133) Tbred B core CPU @2400MHz (24x100FSB)
http://mysite.verizon.net/res0exft/cpu.htm
Anonymous
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April 27, 2004 11:32:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

There is supposed to be a spring clip that holds the heatsink-&-fan in
place.
-
However.... Artic Silver does make an epoxy form of thermal paste that
will glue your heatsink to your CPU.
-
Newegg should carry it..... but if you don't find it there.... try
Directron.
-
www.newegg.com
www.directron.com
-
Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 3:45:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ablang wrote:
> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
> keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no longer
> sticking.

No, it means the retainer clip is broken.

>
> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
> perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink in place
> (vertically)?

Thermal epoxy? But you'll never remove it... How about you buy a real
heat sink that still has its retainer clip?

>


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Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 3:47:01 AM

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~misfit~ wrote:
> WebWalker wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
>><HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>>>keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste
>>>is no longer sticking.
>>
>>Thermal paste don't really sticky like glue and it is more like
>>toothpaste.
>
>
> What you now know as thermal paste has only been around for a few years. The
> early stuff was "sticky like glue", in fact it doubled as glue as a lot of
> the HS's with this stuff didn't have clips.


Not for K6-2 300 era chips. For chips prior to the P100 yeah, it's not
uncommon.

> --
> ~misfit~
>
>


--
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April 28, 2004 3:47:02 AM

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sooky grumper wrote:

> ~misfit~ wrote:
>> WebWalker wrote:
>>
>>>On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
>>><HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>>>>keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste
>>>>is no longer sticking.
>>>
>>>Thermal paste don't really sticky like glue and it is more like
>>>toothpaste.
>>
>>
>> What you now know as thermal paste has only been around for a few years.
>> The early stuff was "sticky like glue", in fact it doubled as glue as a
>> lot of the HS's with this stuff didn't have clips.
>
>
> Not for K6-2 300 era chips. For chips prior to the P100 yeah, it's not
> uncommon.
>


Yea my P100 has a "factory installed" HSF that is glued o the chip.

BTW thermal grease has been in use in the electronic industry for decades. I
recall the early automotive electronic ignitions used the same while paste
to mount their modues and that was 30 years ago.
--

Stacey
Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 4:28:37 AM

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do_not_spam_me wrote:
> Ablang <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote in message news:<njfr8092dv496e9gjh1i9bdd4fm98todon@4ax.com>...
>
>
>>I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan &
>>heatsink keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that
>>the thermal paste is no longer sticking.
>>
>>Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this
>>cheap, or perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping
>>the fan & heatsink in place (vertically)?
>
>
> A 300 MHz K6-2 is not the world's hottest chip and doesn't need any
> special thermal adhesive, but ignore hacks who tell you to apply
> thermal grease in the enter and a drop of super glue in each corner or
> mix thermal grease with epoxy, both bad remedies.

They make specialised thermal epoxy for attaching heat sinks to RAM
(both system and video) chips. I'd use that, if getting a proper heat
sink with a retainer clip was out.

>
> Thoroughly clean off the heatsink and the metal part of the chip
> package with alcohol, then glue them back together with ordinary
> silicone rubber sealant (RTV). Apply a thin layer of RTV all over the
> mating surface, just as you would apply thermal grease, by pressing
> the heatsink firmly and sliding it around slightly to spread the RTV
> and squeeze out the excess. Keep the chip horizontal for an hour, and
> handle it gently for the next 8 hours.
>
> Regular epoxy can be used instead and applied the same way, but the
> drawbacks to any epoxy are that it runs and drips and the heatsink
> will be much harder to remove later on, while RTV remains so soft that
> it can be easily cut with a knife yet sticks very well.

I can't wait to get some old-ish equipment to play around with this
idea! :-)


--
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Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 4:28:38 AM

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sooky grumper <sookygrumper@fishies_.com> wrote in message news:<408e8a25$1@quokka.wn.com.au>...
> do_not_spam_me wrote:
> > Ablang <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote in message news:<njfr8092dv496e9gjh1i9bdd4fm98todon@4ax.com>...

> >>I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan &
> >>heatsink keeps falling down off the CPU,

> ignore hacks who tell you to apply thermal grease in the enter
> and a drop of super glue in each corner or mx thermal grease
> with epoxy, both bad remedies.
>
>> Thoroughly clean off the heatsink and the metal part of the
>> chip package with alcohol, then glue them back together with
>> ordinary silicone rubber sealant (RTV).

>> Regular epoxy can be used instead and applied the same way,
>> but the drawbacks to any epoxy are that it runs and drips
>> and the heatsink will be much harder to remove later on

> They make specialised thermal epoxy for attaching heat sinks
> to RAM (both system and video) chips. I'd use that, if getting
> a proper heat sink with a retainer clip was out.

I have 2 old jars of Delta Bond thermal epoxy but haven't used them,
except when I needed a putty-like epoxy, and to glue on heatsinks I've
used only silicone rubber RTV, except in the case of large heatsink
and a small contact area, where I used regular epoxy. Thermal epoxy
for a 300 MHz K6-2 is an utter waste of money.
April 28, 2004 10:56:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:21:10 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz>
wrote:

>WebWalker wrote:
>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
>> <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
>>> keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste
>>> is no longer sticking.
>>
>> Thermal paste don't really sticky like glue and it is more like
>> toothpaste.
>
>What you now know as thermal paste has only been around for a few years. The
>early stuff was "sticky like glue", in fact it doubled as glue as a lot of
>the HS's with this stuff didn't have clips.

Thermal "paste" has been around for ages. First used it the 60's for some
early transistor power amps. Has been used for years in the
electronics/computer industry. It was "discovered" for CPUs when the heat
started rising, and heatsinks started being needed.

JT
Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 10:56:47 AM

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"~misfit~" said in news:jKKjc.1284$g52.60117@news.xtra.co.nz:
> JT wrote:
<snip>
> I have a mate who's into electronics and I remember him using
> "thermal transfer compound" on some of the transistors/heatsinks on
> his home-made power amplifiers 20+ years ago. I don't kmow what it
> was made of but I do remember him telling me it was really toxic.
> Zinc oxide? That seems to ring a (faint) bell.

Zinc oxide is used as a filler in some low-grade thermal pastes. It is
not toxic. Zinc oxide is that water insoluable white stuff you see
painted on folks' noses to keep from getting sunburned.

"Zinc oxide is ideal for the nose and ears while swimming"
(http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/001869.cfm).

I don't remember reading any warnings about not touching the stuff. In
fact, it usually needs to be reminded to users to NOT use their fingers
to spread around the paste because of the oil on their fingers.
However, I doubt any of the stuff is suitable for consumption (but
touching it is okay).

Maybe your friend was talking about a thermal adhesive because those do
use solvents that are toxic (but not in the dosage to which you would be
exposed for one heat sink, but maybe if you were on an assembly line).
I mean, hell, SuperGlue is toxic but I don't see folks keeling over that
accidentally got their fingers glued together. Acetone is toxic yet I
occasionally dampen a paper towel with it to remove some glue, residue,
or such, and my fingers are touching that Acetone wetted paper towel.
Grain alcohol is toxic, but are you going to give up your beer? If so,
I'll take it.

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Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 12:38:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Wes Newell wrote:
>
> But he doesn't have a a 486 cpu. he's got a K6-2-300 Pentium class and it
> fits in a socket7. The proper cooler will have a spring clip that
> attaches to the nubs of the socket.
>

The 486 is the most notable, as it was the first to commonly be fitted
with active coolers, so having an overdrive chip with a passive cooler
was strange...

--
-Luke-
If cars had advanced at the same rate as Micr0$oft technology, they'd be
flying by now.
But who wants a car that crashes 8 times a day?
Registered Linux User #345134
April 28, 2004 6:12:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:23:26 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz>
wrote:

>JT wrote:
>> On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 22:21:10 +1200, "~misfit~"
>> <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> WebWalker wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 26 Apr 2004 19:02:37 -0700, Ablang
>>>> <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan &
>>>>> heatsink keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the
>>>>> thermal paste is no longer sticking.
>>>>
>>>> Thermal paste don't really sticky like glue and it is more like
>>>> toothpaste.
>>>
>>> What you now know as thermal paste has only been around for a few
>>> years. The early stuff was "sticky like glue", in fact it doubled as
>>> glue as a lot of the HS's with this stuff didn't have clips.
>>
>> Thermal "paste" has been around for ages. First used it the 60's for
>> some early transistor power amps. Has been used for years in the
>> electronics/computer industry. It was "discovered" for CPUs when the
>> heat started rising, and heatsinks started being needed.
>
>Yep, I know that. I was talking specifically about the PC side of things. I
>have a mate who's into electronics and I remember him using "thermal
>transfer compound" on some of the transistors/heatsinks on his home-made
>power amplifiers 20+ years ago. I don't kmow what it was made of but I do
>remember him telling me it was really toxic. Zinc oxide? That seems to ring
>a (faint) bell.

One of the best early ones was from 3M and used their newly developed
silicones. Still pretty much the standard for most applications.

JT
Anonymous
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April 28, 2004 7:27:57 PM

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*Vanguard* wrote:

> Oops, never mind. Did some searching to find the thermal conductance of
> some metals, which are (along with some other materials):
>
> Diamond = 1000 to 2600 W/mK (wow!)
> Silver = 430 W/mK
> Copper = 390 W/mK
> Gold = 320 W/mK
> Aluminum = 236 W/mK
> Platinum = 70 W/mK
> Glass = 1 W/mK
> Air = 0.035 W/mK
> Styrofoam = 0.03 W/mK
>
> The above are for solid materials, not for pastes filled with micronized
> filler using the above materials. Just imagine the cost for
> diamond-filled thermal paste! Ouch.

Might not be too high. But using industrial grade diamond dust might
not be much better than silicone grease. Diamond's high conductance
relies on the alignment of its crystals, (as does its brilliance).
There is some work being done using "diamond like" layers on silicon
wafers used to fabricate CPUs. Could be a signifigant developement in
the ever increasing heat density of modern CPUs.

Virg Wall
--

It is vain to do with more
what can be done with fewer.
William of Occam.
April 29, 2004 3:17:22 AM

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On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:31:29 -0500, "*Vanguard*"
<no-email@post-reply-in-newsgroup.invalid> wrote:

>>
>Gold?
>
>Hmm, just had a thought but no time to think it through. Silicone,
>zinc, aluminum, and silver, in that order, give increasiningly better
>heat transfer rates. Wouldn't gold be even better? But imagine the
>price for gold-filled compounds!
>
>Oops, never mind. Did some searching to find the thermal conductance of
>some metals, which are (along with some other materials):
>
>Diamond = 1000 to 2600 W/mK (wow!)
>Silver = 430 W/mK
>Copper = 390 W/mK
>Gold = 320 W/mK
>Aluminum = 236 W/mK
>Platinum = 70 W/mK
>Glass = 1 W/mK
>Air = 0.035 W/mK
>Styrofoam = 0.03 W/mK
>
>The above are for solid materials, not for pastes filled with micronized
>filler using the above materials. Just imagine the cost for
>diamond-filled thermal paste! Ouch.

Gold might actually be a good alternative in the form of Gold Leaf.
Relatively inexpensive at hobby shops, and Gold leaf is one of the
thinnest, most malleable materials available. A sheet smoothed onto the top
of the processor would need no paste to hold it, would be soft enough to be
crushed into the little crevices and gaps, and has very good heat
conduction. Gold leaf is only a few atoms thick, so excess is unlikely.
Just have to make sure there was no extra that would overhang and short.
Will have to experiment with it when I get a chance.

JT
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
April 29, 2004 3:17:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JT" said in news:f24f792c8ca269b96997ad805fb96dfe@news.teranews.com:
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:31:29 -0500, "*Vanguard*"
> <no-email@post-reply-in-newsgroup.invalid> wrote:
>
>>>
>> Gold?
>>
>> Hmm, just had a thought but no time to think it through. Silicone,
>> zinc, aluminum, and silver, in that order, give increasiningly better
>> heat transfer rates. Wouldn't gold be even better? But imagine the
>> price for gold-filled compounds!
>>
>> Oops, never mind. Did some searching to find the thermal
>> conductance of some metals, which are (along with some other
>> materials):
>>
>> Diamond = 1000 to 2600 W/mK (wow!)
>> Silver = 430 W/mK
>> Copper = 390 W/mK
>> Gold = 320 W/mK
>> Aluminum = 236 W/mK
>> Platinum = 70 W/mK
>> Glass = 1 W/mK
>> Air = 0.035 W/mK
>> Styrofoam = 0.03 W/mK
>>
>> The above are for solid materials, not for pastes filled with
>> micronized filler using the above materials. Just imagine the cost
>> for diamond-filled thermal paste! Ouch.
>
> Gold might actually be a good alternative in the form of Gold Leaf.
> Relatively inexpensive at hobby shops, and Gold leaf is one of the
> thinnest, most malleable materials available. A sheet smoothed onto
> the top of the processor would need no paste to hold it, would be
> soft enough to be crushed into the little crevices and gaps, and has
> very good heat conduction. Gold leaf is only a few atoms thick, so
> excess is unlikely. Just have to make sure there was no extra that
> would overhang and short. Will have to experiment with it when I get
> a chance.
>
> JT

I had actually thought of using gold leaf (several sheets) and
originally had it in my post about putting *pure* (24 karat) gold leaf
on the heatsink or on the CPU plate (smaller area) because it would be
soft and malleable. Maybe under pressure with the heatsink clipped onto
the CPU the gold leaf would mold into the cavities and microscopic pits.
But then I realized that what looks perfectly flat to your eye would
still probably end up with microcopically huge air bubbles, and while
malleable the gold would probably not ooze into the pits completely.
The only way it might work would be if there was a means of sending a
high electric current just through the gold leaf to flash melt it (to
minimize any generated heat that would conduct back to the CPU's die),
but I doubt the CPU die is electrically isolated from its heat plate,
and somehow I don't think consumers would have the necessary equipment.
Someone would have to find out if this idea worked and start a service
where users could get their selected heatsink flash fused with gold to
their CPU (or buy them that way as a package).

That's a bit of a dream at this time so I've started to look into the
Peltier cooling systems. I don't want to go with liquid cooling (which
still has a fan somewhere or else you listen to pumps and gurgles, have
to deal with leaks, and route all the plumbing [I like my innards very
neat]). ThermalTake has their SubZero solution but I don't like having
to surrender a PCI slot.
--
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April 29, 2004 4:19:18 AM

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On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 11:51:18 +1200, "~misfit~" <misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz>
wrote:

>JT wrote:
>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 04:31:29 -0500, "*Vanguard*"
>> <no-email@post-reply-in-newsgroup.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>>
>>> Gold?
>>>
>>> Hmm, just had a thought but no time to think it through. Silicone,
>>> zinc, aluminum, and silver, in that order, give increasiningly better
>>> heat transfer rates. Wouldn't gold be even better? But imagine the
>>> price for gold-filled compounds!
>>>
>>> Oops, never mind. Did some searching to find the thermal
>>> conductance of some metals, which are (along with some other
>>> materials):
>>>
>>> Diamond = 1000 to 2600 W/mK (wow!)
>>> Silver = 430 W/mK
>>> Copper = 390 W/mK
>>> Gold = 320 W/mK
>>> Aluminum = 236 W/mK
>>> Platinum = 70 W/mK
>>> Glass = 1 W/mK
>>> Air = 0.035 W/mK
>>> Styrofoam = 0.03 W/mK
>>>
>>> The above are for solid materials, not for pastes filled with
>>> micronized filler using the above materials. Just imagine the cost
>>> for diamond-filled thermal paste! Ouch.
>>
>> Gold might actually be a good alternative in the form of Gold Leaf.
>> Relatively inexpensive at hobby shops, and Gold leaf is one of the
>> thinnest, most malleable materials available. A sheet smoothed onto
>> the top of the processor would need no paste to hold it, would be
>> soft enough to be crushed into the little crevices and gaps, and has
>> very good heat conduction. Gold leaf is only a few atoms thick, so
>> excess is unlikely. Just have to make sure there was no extra that
>> would overhang and short. Will have to experiment with it when I get
>> a chance.
>
>As you said, it's just a few atoms thick. I think the 'sink and maybe the
>CPU would have to be lapped.

Of course lapped surfaces would be the best, or maybe use '2' sheets ;) .
Hope I get a chance to try this soon. Can just see it now. Arctic Gold ;) 

JT
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
April 29, 2004 11:36:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"~misfit~" said in news:GIgkc.53$r17.21471@news.xtra.co.nz:
> *Vanguard* wrote:
>> "~misfit~" said in news:jKKjc.1284$g52.60117@news.xtra.co.nz:
>>> JT wrote:
>> <snip>
>>> I have a mate who's into electronics and I remember him using
>>> "thermal transfer compound" on some of the transistors/heatsinks on
>>> his home-made power amplifiers 20+ years ago. I don't kmow what it
>>> was made of but I do remember him telling me it was really toxic.
>>> Zinc oxide? That seems to ring a (faint) bell.
>>
>> Zinc oxide is used as a filler in some low-grade thermal pastes. It
>> is not toxic. Zinc oxide is that water insoluable white stuff you
>> see painted on folks' noses to keep from getting sunburned.
>>
>> "Zinc oxide is ideal for the nose and ears while swimming"
>> (http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/001869.cfm).
>>
>> I don't remember reading any warnings about not touching the stuff.
>> In fact, it usually needs to be reminded to users to NOT use their
>> fingers to spread around the paste because of the oil on their
>> fingers. However, I doubt any of the stuff is suitable for
>> consumption (but touching it is okay).
>>
>> Maybe your friend was talking about a thermal adhesive because those
>> do use solvents that are toxic (but not in the dosage to which you
>> would be exposed for one heat sink, but maybe if you were on an
>> assembly line). I mean, hell, SuperGlue is toxic but I don't see
>> folks keeling over that accidentally got their fingers glued
>> together. Acetone is toxic yet I occasionally dampen a paper towel
>> with it to remove some glue, residue, or such, and my fingers are
>> touching that Acetone wetted paper towel. Grain alcohol is toxic, but
>> are you going to give up your beer? If so, I'll take it.
>
> I'm thinking now it was beryllium oxide.

While beryllium is toxic
(http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/BE/beryllium.html), it looks to be so
when inhaled and not through the skin. It is probably toxic if
ingested, too. Hey, maybe we could send some to the idiot that sued
Sears because the lawn mower he bought from them didn't say it couldn't
be hoisted up and used as a hedge trimmer. As long as it doesn't say
that it couldn't be used for toothpaste, maybe we could get this idiot
listed in the next Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/). Ah,
damn, looks like it's not toxic when ingested
(http://www.espimetals.com/msds's/berylliumoxide.pdf). That article
also says it is not toxic through the skin even on an abrasion. It is
toxic for chronic exposure, like if your job was as an assembler that
applies it everyday for voltage regulators or high-power transistors.

Keep trying. Maybe there's a paste with a cyano compound in it. ;-)

--
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Anonymous
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April 30, 2004 2:57:37 AM

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On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 21:19:51 GMT, "Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote:


>It doesn't... and that's why he included the links. It's the same reason
>that nobody uses peanut butter. Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for
>thermal compound.
>
>As for 4 times faster than air??? I'd only believe that if the air was not
>moving at all. It's a lot easier to circulate air that silicone rubber!
>

The interesting part of this discussion is that chips from K6 through P4
do use a silicone rubber interface between the core and head spreader. As
with any other interface the primary consideration is viscosity and
surface flatness since the vast majority of the interface material is
meant to squish out. We should consider it a given that any permanent,
cement-type interface requires the flattest surfaces (reasonably)
possible.
Anonymous
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a b à CPUs
April 30, 2004 5:11:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

*Vanguard* wrote:

> "~misfit~" said in news:GIgkc.53$r17.21471@news.xtra.co.nz:
>
>>*Vanguard* wrote:
>>
>>>"~misfit~" said in news:jKKjc.1284$g52.60117@news.xtra.co.nz:
>>>
>>>>JT wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>I have a mate who's into electronics and I remember him using
>>>>"thermal transfer compound" on some of the transistors/heatsinks on
>>>>his home-made power amplifiers 20+ years ago. I don't kmow what it
>>>>was made of but I do remember him telling me it was really toxic.
>>>>Zinc oxide? That seems to ring a (faint) bell.
>>>
>>>Zinc oxide is used as a filler in some low-grade thermal pastes. It
>>>is not toxic. Zinc oxide is that water insoluable white stuff you
>>>see painted on folks' noses to keep from getting sunburned.
>>>
>>>"Zinc oxide is ideal for the nose and ears while swimming"
>>>(http://www.healthcentral.com/mhc/top/001869.cfm).
>>>
>>>I don't remember reading any warnings about not touching the stuff.
>>>In fact, it usually needs to be reminded to users to NOT use their
>>>fingers to spread around the paste because of the oil on their
>>>fingers. However, I doubt any of the stuff is suitable for
>>>consumption (but touching it is okay).
>>>
>>>Maybe your friend was talking about a thermal adhesive because those
>>>do use solvents that are toxic (but not in the dosage to which you
>>>would be exposed for one heat sink, but maybe if you were on an
>>>assembly line). I mean, hell, SuperGlue is toxic but I don't see
>>>folks keeling over that accidentally got their fingers glued
>>>together. Acetone is toxic yet I occasionally dampen a paper towel
>>>with it to remove some glue, residue, or such, and my fingers are
>>>touching that Acetone wetted paper towel. Grain alcohol is toxic, but
>>>are you going to give up your beer? If so, I'll take it.
>>
>>I'm thinking now it was beryllium oxide.
>
>
> While beryllium is toxic
> (http://physchem.ox.ac.uk/MSDS/BE/beryllium.html), it looks to be so
> when inhaled and not through the skin. It is probably toxic if
> ingested, too. Hey, maybe we could send some to the idiot that sued
> Sears because the lawn mower he bought from them didn't say it couldn't
> be hoisted up and used as a hedge trimmer. As long as it doesn't say
> that it couldn't be used for toothpaste, maybe we could get this idiot
> listed in the next Darwin Awards (http://www.darwinawards.com/). Ah,
> damn, looks like it's not toxic when ingested
> (http://www.espimetals.com/msds's/berylliumoxide.pdf). That article
> also says it is not toxic through the skin even on an abrasion. It is
> toxic for chronic exposure, like if your job was as an assembler that
> applies it everyday for voltage regulators or high-power transistors.
>
> Keep trying. Maybe there's a paste with a cyano compound in it. ;-)
>
Aside from its not being toxic, I don't think finely divided beryllium
oxide in a silicone like carrier would make a good heat conducting
paste. The main advantage of solid beryllium oxide is that it's a good
electrical insulator while being a good heat transfer medium. It is
very difficult to machine, and the dust is toxic when inhaled. As has
been mentioned, diamond is also a good electrical insulator while having
excellent heat transfer properties. Unfortumately it has to be in
crystaline form and costs accordingly.

Virg Wall
--

It is vain to do with more
what can be done with fewer.
William of Occam.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
April 30, 2004 5:33:56 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:08:23 +1200, "~misfit~"
<misfit61nz@yahoomung.co.nz> wrote:


>I pulled a heat spreader off a Celeron Tualatin 1.3Ghz and while the
>spreader was held on around the edges with silicone rubber, the compound on
>the die itself was something else. Certainly not 'rubbery', more like
>dried-out ordinary thermal compound.

Hmmmm. Maybe I'm wrong... it happens. Can't remember now which chip I
last "thought" I saw that on.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
May 1, 2004 12:49:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Most fans for that kind of computers have a clip that fits over two notches
on the holder for the CPU. These should be white plastic extensions and the
clip is a tinny piece of metal that slides up and down. You have to hook it
on one of the notches and push it down to hook it firmly on the other.
"Ablang" <HilaryDuffThePerfectWoman@ablang-duff.com> wrote in message
news:njfr8092dv496e9gjh1i9bdd4fm98todon@4ax.com...
> I just inherited a K6-2 300 Mhz computer, but the CPU fan & heatsink
> keeps falling down off the CPU, which means that the thermal paste is no
longer
> sticking.
>
> Does anyone know a good place online where I can buy this cheap, or
> perhaps someone has ideas for other ways of keeping the fan & heatsink in
place
> (vertically)?
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
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May 1, 2004 7:34:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...

>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.

Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?
May 1, 2004 1:41:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 1 May 2004 03:34:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave)
wrote:

>"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...
>
>>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>
>Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
>that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?

switcher ?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
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May 1, 2004 8:06:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Howdy!

"R. Anton Rave" <rantonrave@mail.com> wrote in message
news:2725e958.0405010234.7558575@posting.google.com...
> "Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message
news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...
>
> >Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>
> Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
> that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?

Electrical insulation.

That's almost a "D'oh!" innit?

RwP
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 12:00:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 1 May 2004 03:34:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave) wrote:

>"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...
>
>>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>
>Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
>that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?

They are not paranoid about temp like PC users are, and it allows
electrical isolation if/when needed.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
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May 2, 2004 2:46:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

And you *know* this is silicon rubber? Or it just looks
like silicon rubber?

"R. Anton Rave" wrote:
> "Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...
>> Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>
> Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
> that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 9:17:14 PM

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On Sun, 02 May 2004 10:46:09 -0400, w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote:

> And you *know* this is silicon rubber? Or it just looks
>like silicon rubber?

Many are, silicone rubber on a fiberglass matting.

http://209.98.79.41/objects/SilPad_SelGuide_PDFs/SilPad...
Anonymous
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May 2, 2004 9:31:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I'm coming in late on this thread but try your local hobby shop which deals
with transistors. Thermal paste was used for heatsinks on power transistors
and amplifier ICs.

Richard Brooks.
Anonymous
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May 3, 2004 4:38:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<q40890h5rvehl3a6igi1af1fpq03dmcmpp@4ax.com>...
> On 1 May 2004 03:34:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave) wrote:
>
> >"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...

>>>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>>
>>Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
>>that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?
>
>They are not paranoid about temp like PC users are, and it allows
>electrical isolation if/when needed.

They're more paranoid than PC users are about actual temperature
issues, less than they are about trivial ones, and if electrical
isolation were the only reason for that silicone rubber, why is it
always found against a heatsink?
Anonymous
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May 3, 2004 4:59:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

w_tom <w_tom1@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<409509B1.71B986E2@hotmail.com>...

>And you *know* this is silicon rubber? Or it just looks
>like silicon rubber?

Opaque, rubbery, and either grey, light blue, or red - definitely not
Kapton, mica, ceramic, aluminum oxide, or beryllium oxide. Every
catalog and application note mentioning the composition said it was
silicone rubber (Allied Electronics: Aavid brand IN-SIL-8 pads,
"Thermally Conductive Composite of Silicone Rubber and Fiberglass
Provides Better Thermal Conduction Than Mica and Grease"). If it's
not silicone rubber, what could it be? Teflon?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
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May 3, 2004 5:02:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

_?_ wrote in message news:<hok79054v6niesdqe5brqmr6votk0vfcfc@4ax.com>...
> On 1 May 2004 03:34:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave)
> wrote:
>
> >"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...

>>>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.

>>Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know
>>something that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?

>switcher ?

Switching mode power supply, like those in PCs. Astec and Delta are
the largest makers of switchers.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
May 3, 2004 1:09:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 3 May 2004 00:38:35 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave) wrote:

>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<q40890h5rvehl3a6igi1af1fpq03dmcmpp@4ax.com>...
>> On 1 May 2004 03:34:08 -0700, rantonrave@mail.com (R. Anton Rave) wrote:
>>
>> >"Noozer" <dont.spam@me.here> wrote in message news:<Xjekc.313431$oR5.194068@pd7tw3no>...
>
>>>>Silicone rubber is a stupid choice for thermal compound.
>>>
>>>Then why does almost every switcher use it? Do you know something
>>>that the engineers of Astec and Delta don't?
>>
>>They are not paranoid about temp like PC users are, and it allows
>>electrical isolation if/when needed.
>
>They're more paranoid than PC users are about actual temperature
>issues, less than they are about trivial ones, and if electrical
>isolation were the only reason for that silicone rubber, why is it
>always found against a heatsink?

They are not paranoid, they consult specs and follow them, unlike PC users
who try to get the lowest CPU temp possible for no good reason while
ignoring CPU manufacturer spec or threshold for stability. I literally
meant "paranoid". A "PC" user may try for 30-50C temps but a power supply
designer has no such illusions that a regulator needs to stay under 50C.
!