CPU Crashes Cold, But Works Great Warm??? Help?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.

The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
Still no better.

I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
boot.

I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...

--So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
this...

Thanks for any help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I have how cold does the room get when the PC is off? If the room gets
below 40 F then you need to keepm the PC on all of the time...


Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
>
> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
> Still no better.
>
> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
> time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
> that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
> boot.
>
> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
> the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
> fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>
> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
> this...
>
> Thanks for any help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

40 F? I don't live in an igloo ;-) The room temperature stays around
70 degrees or so...


On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:21:45 -0600, Chris Simpson <Chriss@mho.com>
wrote:

>I have how cold does the room get when the PC is off? If the room gets
>below 40 F then you need to keepm the PC on all of the time...
>
>
>Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
>> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
>>
>> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
>> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
>> Still no better.
>>
>> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
>> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
>> time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
>> that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
>> boot.
>>
>> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
>> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
>> the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
>> fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>>
>> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
>> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
>> this...
>>
>> Thanks for any help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Hi guys, here's an update. After I posted, I turned the CPU off to
test and could not get it to boot fully into XP again, despite
"warming up".

So, I decided pull the power supply out of my other system to test(no
small task since the CDROM and the CPU heatsink had to be removed to
pull it). I popped it in and (drumroll please) it booted just fine. So
it looks like a PSU problem as many of you suggested. Thanks

BTW: As for the folks who chastised me for using a cheap PSU... Let me
just say that this PSU had been working great for 5 years and had kept
my system perfectly stable through two system upgrades. So, let's not
completely dismiss the "bang for the buck" here ;-) Who knows if a
$100 power supply would have lasted any longer...

MANY thanks to everyone for your help, even if some of it included a
little criticism ;-). I appreciate it.

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:14:14 -0500, Billy Saul Hearok
<Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote:

>I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
>
>The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
>restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
>Still no better.
>
>I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
>through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
>time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
>that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
>boot.
>
>I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
>little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
>the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
>fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>
>--So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
>fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
>this...
>
>Thanks for any help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

OK,
I'm gonna guess the PS here. Maybe it's got leaking caps and there
isn't enough charge on them to supply enough current to the mb. However,
each time you re-start the system a little more current is retained in them
to supply the system.

If you have another PS try substituting it and send me the $ if I'm right.

--
Jan Alter
bearpuf@verizon.net
or
jalter@phila.k12.pa.us
"Billy Saul Hearok" <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote in message
news:fs8090lpe8fb19iq11mklo2b23gsco4sh9@4ax.com...
> 40 F? I don't live in an igloo ;-) The room temperature stays around
> 70 degrees or so...
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:21:45 -0600, Chris Simpson <Chriss@mho.com>
> wrote:
>
> >I have how cold does the room get when the PC is off? If the room gets
> >below 40 F then you need to keepm the PC on all of the time...
> >
> >
> >Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
> >> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
> >>
> >> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
> >> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
> >> Still no better.
> >>
> >> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
> >> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
> >> time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
> >> that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
> >> boot.
> >>
> >> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
> >> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
> >> the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
> >> fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
> >>
> >> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
> >> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
> >> this...
> >>
> >> Thanks for any help.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Thanks for your advice, Jan. I was thinking along the same lines(PS),
but since I don't have another one to test, I wanted to get a few
"second opinions" before I shell out for one


On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 21:46:54 GMT, "Jan Alter" <bearpuf@verizon.net>
wrote:

>OK,
> I'm gonna guess the PS here. Maybe it's got leaking caps and there
>isn't enough charge on them to supply enough current to the mb. However,
>each time you re-start the system a little more current is retained in them
>to supply the system.
>
>If you have another PS try substituting it and send me the $ if I'm right.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Billy Saul Hearok <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote:
> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.

> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
> Still no better.

> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
> time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
> that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
> boot.

> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
> the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
> fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...

> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
> this...

Could be a electrolyte capacitor gone bad in a sensitive place. These
things can have a large leak-current when the have been off for a
wile. Due to the nature of their construction, the isolation layer
slowly rebuilds when they carry a charge, which decreases the leakage
current. This is counter-intuitive, but happens from time to time in
in practice. Note that this is not the same as the "exploding
capacitor"-problem.

My guess would be that the problem is in the PSU or the reset-
circuit on the mainboard.

Was this PC off for some days?

Arno

--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

The PC was off for about 5 hours.

So, do you think the PSU is the likely culprit?

My PSU is some cheap, no-name. When I was fiddling in the bios, I
noticed that the vcore for my Barton is being reported as varying
between 1.585 and 1.60. I bumped it up by 1% so that it would be
closer to the Barton default of 1.65. Vcore is now reported as varying
between 1.60 and 1.618 or so.

On 28 Apr 2004 21:47:38 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:

>Could be a electrolyte capacitor gone bad in a sensitive place. These
>things can have a large leak-current when the have been off for a
>wile. Due to the nature of their construction, the isolation layer
>slowly rebuilds when they carry a charge, which decreases the leakage
>current. This is counter-intuitive, but happens from time to time in
>in practice. Note that this is not the same as the "exploding
>capacitor"-problem.
>
>My guess would be that the problem is in the PSU or the reset-
>circuit on the mainboard.
>
>Was this PC off for some days?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

You never know....


Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
> 40 F? I don't live in an igloo ;-) The room temperature stays around
> 70 degrees or so...
>
>
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:21:45 -0600, Chris Simpson <Chriss@mho.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>I have how cold does the room get when the PC is off? If the room gets
>>below 40 F then you need to keepm the PC on all of the time...
>>
>>
>>Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
>>
>>>I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
>>>
>>>The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
>>>restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
>>>Still no better.
>>>
>>>I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
>>>through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
>>>time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
>>>that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
>>>boot.
>>>
>>>I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
>>>little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
>>>the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
>>>fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>>>
>>>--So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
>>>fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
>>>this...
>>>
>>>Thanks for any help.
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:13:23 -0500, Billy Saul Hearok
<Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote:


>On 28 Apr 2004 21:47:38 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>
>>Could be a electrolyte capacitor gone bad in a sensitive place. These
>>things can have a large leak-current when the have been off for a
>>wile. Due to the nature of their construction, the isolation layer
>>slowly rebuilds when they carry a charge, which decreases the leakage
>>current. This is counter-intuitive, but happens from time to time in
>>in practice. Note that this is not the same as the "exploding
>>capacitor"-problem.
>>
>>My guess would be that the problem is in the PSU or the reset-
>>circuit on the mainboard.
>>
>>Was this PC off for some days?

>The PC was off for about 5 hours.
>
>So, do you think the PSU is the likely culprit?
>
>My PSU is some cheap, no-name. When I was fiddling in the bios, I
>noticed that the vcore for my Barton is being reported as varying
>between 1.585 and 1.60. I bumped it up by 1% so that it would be
>closer to the Barton default of 1.65. Vcore is now reported as varying
>between 1.60 and 1.618 or so.
>

I was under the impression that the system would have to remain off for
MUCH longer amount of time before the cap degraded, and after power on
attempts enough that it was running, a new oxide layer had then formed
(implied since it then runs), and only leaving the system off for another
LONG time would result in same scenario recurring... not if system were
only off for a few hours or days.

You should never have ran the system with a "cheap, no-name" PSU. It's
likely the power supply is failing or else the motherboard. If you have a
multimeter it wouldn't hurt to take voltage readings at the ATX connector
while system is first cold->powered-on. However failed caps in the power
supply might still be roughly on-spec by a multimeter even after capacitor
degradation making the PSU unfit for use. Considering the "cheap,
no-name" issue, the power supply should be replaced. Question is then if
you replaced it soon enough or if motherboard has been degraded as well...
could require replacement of both for long-term viability but the PSU is
the first focus.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Billy Saul Hearok" <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote in message
news:544090l9h77hjs5ceuk020t7bc5l8la7ar@4ax.com...
> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
>
> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
> Still no better.
>
> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
> time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
> that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
> boot.
>
> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
> the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
> fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>
> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
> this...
>
> Thanks for any help.

I had a problem very similar to that recently, the good new is it has gone
now,
tha bad news if I don't know what for sure what cured it.
I also thought power supply capacitors etc..
How far does it get and how many restarts are needed?
What do you mean by 'warm up'? doesn't it shutdown?
Could also be dodgy power switch perhaps?
Ever ran Ares file share software? An problems with OE?
Do you have a lot of old newsgroup message? (size of store in megabytes)?

Anyway I tried a few things but basically I am running the same
set-up now, same hardware and software, and the problem
has disappeared,
My problem was not consistant though, sometimes it ran ok,
it was more occasionally for me that there was a problem.

Try a few things, disconnect your harddrives and boot say
from a floppy with memtest on it. Anything to change the
set-up basically to see if it makes a diference.
An open (or closed) curcuit somewhere might also cause a problem
like this.(especially if its a 'hairline' crack.

Anyway my computer is working like a dream at the moment, one
thing which has changed is the weather, its warmer!!!!
Maybe wait untill summer???!!!!

Maybe get your computer up and running and then stiick the
main box in the refridgerator! Its a long shot but it might work....

Anyway you can comfort eat all the food you took out whilst
you wait to see what happens (plus drink the beer!).

half_pint.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Nice to know you fixed it, it certaintly had the characteristics of a
capacitor problem, amongst perhaps, other things. Maybe you could
open the PSU up to get a look inside, but be very careful as the voltages
can be dangerous so if in any doubt whatsoever leave it well alone.
Its actually sounds very similar to a problem posted by 'putim'
in an earlier thread 'Intermittant PC lock' however his solution was a new
motherboard and ram.
Maybe he had dodgy capacitors too?


"Billy Saul Hearok" <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote in message
news:eqo090tji3ejccjc8vbhfbais3p7pasdgn@4ax.com...
> Hi guys, here's an update. After I posted, I turned the CPU off to
> test and could not get it to boot fully into XP again, despite
> "warming up".
>
> So, I decided pull the power supply out of my other system to test(no
> small task since the CDROM and the CPU heatsink had to be removed to
> pull it). I popped it in and (drumroll please) it booted just fine. So
> it looks like a PSU problem as many of you suggested. Thanks
>
> BTW: As for the folks who chastised me for using a cheap PSU... Let me
> just say that this PSU had been working great for 5 years and had kept
> my system perfectly stable through two system upgrades. So, let's not
> completely dismiss the "bang for the buck" here ;-) Who knows if a
> $100 power supply would have lasted any longer...
>
> MANY thanks to everyone for your help, even if some of it included a
> little criticism ;-). I appreciate it.
>
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:14:14 -0500, Billy Saul Hearok
> <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote:
>
> >I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this morning.
> >
> >The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
> >restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
> >Still no better.
> >
> >I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
> >through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other. This
> >time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So I removed
> >that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting crashes at
> >boot.
> >
> >I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
> >little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just left
> >the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA! it worked
> >fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
> >
> >--So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
> >fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but never
> >this...
> >
> >Thanks for any help.
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Jan Alter wrote:
> OK,
> I'm gonna guess the PS here. Maybe it's got leaking caps and
> there isn't enough charge on them to supply enough current to the mb.
> However, each time you re-start the system a little more current is
> retained in them to supply the system.
>
> If you have another PS try substituting it and send me the $ if I'm
> right.

Maybe in the days of AT PSUs. Modern PSUs (ATX) are powered up all the time
(unless unplugged).
--
~misfit~

>> 40 F? I don't live in an igloo ;-) The room temperature stays around
>> 70 degrees or so...
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:21:45 -0600, Chris Simpson <Chriss@mho.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I have how cold does the room get when the PC is off? If the room
>>> gets below 40 F then you need to keepm the PC on all of the time...
>>>
>>>
>>> Billy Saul Hearok wrote:
>>>> I'm having a weird problem with my system that started this
>>>> morning.
>>>>
>>>> The computer wouldn't boot into WinXP. It kept either hanging or
>>>> restarting. So, I went in and lowered all the settings in the BIOS.
>>>> Still no better.
>>>>
>>>> I popped out one of my memory chips, but it still wouldn't make it
>>>> through the boot. So, I put it back in and popped out the other.
>>>> This time it wouldn't boot at all(black screen, no post beep). So
>>>> I removed that one and went on without it. But I was STILL getting
>>>> crashes at boot.
>>>>
>>>> I slowly began to realize that each time I booted, I was getting a
>>>> little further in the boot sequence. So, after one crash, I just
>>>> left the PC on and let it "warm up". Then, I restarted and WALLA!
>>>> it worked fine. In fact, I'm typing this message on it...
>>>>
>>>> --So, WHAT can cause a PC to hang/restart when cold, but work just
>>>> fine when warmed up?-- I've heard of the reverse situation, but
>>>> never this...
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for any help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:
> On Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:13:23 -0500, Billy Saul Hearok
> <Billy@blowedupgood.com> wrote:
>
>
>> On 28 Apr 2004 21:47:38 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Could be a electrolyte capacitor gone bad in a sensitive place.
>>> These things can have a large leak-current when the have been off
>>> for a wile. Due to the nature of their construction, the isolation
>>> layer slowly rebuilds when they carry a charge, which decreases the
>>> leakage current. This is counter-intuitive, but happens from time
>>> to time in in practice. Note that this is not the same as the
>>> "exploding capacitor"-problem.
>>>
>>> My guess would be that the problem is in the PSU or the reset-
>>> circuit on the mainboard.
>>>
>>> Was this PC off for some days?
>
>> The PC was off for about 5 hours.
>>
>> So, do you think the PSU is the likely culprit?
>>
>> My PSU is some cheap, no-name. When I was fiddling in the bios, I
>> noticed that the vcore for my Barton is being reported as varying
>> between 1.585 and 1.60. I bumped it up by 1% so that it would be
>> closer to the Barton default of 1.65. Vcore is now reported as
>> varying between 1.60 and 1.618 or so.
>>
>
> I was under the impression that the system would have to remain off
> for MUCH longer amount of time before the cap degraded, and after
> power on attempts enough that it was running, a new oxide layer had
> then formed (implied since it then runs), and only leaving the system
> off for another LONG time would result in same scenario recurring...
> not if system were only off for a few hours or days.
>
> You should never have ran the system with a "cheap, no-name" PSU.
> It's likely the power supply is failing or else the motherboard.

I'm glad you said that or that would have made me the only one thinking it's
the mobo. As it's running a Barton it shouldn't be old enough to be
suffering from the infamous widespread capacitor problem. However I'd still
do a visual inspection of all the capacitors on the board, check for any
signs of bulging (sides or top) and/or leakage.
--
~misfit~

> If
> you have a multimeter it wouldn't hurt to take voltage readings at
> the ATX connector while system is first cold->powered-on. However
> failed caps in the power supply might still be roughly on-spec by a
> multimeter even after capacitor degradation making the PSU unfit for
> use. Considering the "cheap, no-name" issue, the power supply
> should be replaced. Question is then if you replaced it soon enough
> or if motherboard has been degraded as well... could require
> replacement of both for long-term viability but the PSU is the first
> focus.