Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Hello all!

Well, I'm ready to try to build my first compu, but need a little help
getting started. I'd really appreciate any guidance!

I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.

I'm determined to build this thing for less than $400, since it really
is just a media server which will plug into my TV.

Here are some ideas I have:
Antec Minuet case
EPIA ME6000 - 600Mhz Fanless Eden CPU
80gb 7200 RPM hard drive
Video card with TV-out
No optical drive (or possibly DVD drive if cost effective)

.... that kind of idea

Can anyone help me with this kind of setup? I'd especially appreciate
pointing me toward any books that could help me build something like
this - most books seem to cover building full size PCs for everyday
use.. not media pc things like what I suggest.

Also, any hardware suggestions would really be appreciated too.

Thanks for anything!

--/|/--

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
> piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
> having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
> media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
> have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.

http://www.sleekline.com/

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:36:18 -0700, ric <nospam@home.com> wrote:

>Brazil wrote:
>
>> I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
>> piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
>> having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
>> media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
>> have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.
>
>http://www.sleekline.com/

Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, those computer are WAY more
powerful than what I need to do, and also out of my price range. I
don't need any actual computing ability other than photos, music, and
movies. Also, I'd like to build it myself.

Other ideas?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> Hello all!
>
> Well, I'm ready to try to build my first compu, but need a little help
> getting started. I'd really appreciate any guidance!
>
> I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
> piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
> having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
> media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
> have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.
>
> I'm determined to build this thing for less than $400, since it really
> is just a media server which will plug into my TV.
>
> Here are some ideas I have:
> Antec Minuet case
> EPIA ME6000 - 600Mhz Fanless Eden CPU
> 80gb 7200 RPM hard drive
> Video card with TV-out
> No optical drive (or possibly DVD drive if cost effective)
>
> ... that kind of idea
>
> Can anyone help me with this kind of setup? I'd especially appreciate
> pointing me toward any books that could help me build something like
> this - most books seem to cover building full size PCs for everyday
> use.. not media pc things like what I suggest.
>
> Also, any hardware suggestions would really be appreciated too.
>
> Thanks for anything!
>
> --/|/--
>

Those VIA EPIA mobos are cute, and quiet, but they are very poor
performers. Might be okay for playback only but if you ever want to record,
as in adding a TV Tuner, or encode video then you're going to be wishing
you had a LOT more processor power and, even though you have a TIVO, a
dedicated 400 buck box that can't handle that too is rather expensive, IMO.

I like the Antec Minuet too but if cost is a concern you could shave a few
bucks off by checking pricewatch for 'book' or 'slim' cases. AOpen and
Inwin both make them. Fortunately I don't see them listed any more but, in
case you find one, the Linkworld book sized case is one to stay away from
as the PSU just flat out dies after a while. I gave up on mine after the
second one, replaced under warrantee, went south. Dern shame because it's a
cute case and the smallest microATX slim out there (I was doing the same
thing you're trying, 'VCR sized') but the PSU is proprietary and if it
don't work then the rest of it is useless.

Directron.com has a section for 'slim' devices, such as display and network
cards, etc., that either come as or can be changed to half height mounting
for the under 5 inch high cases. AOpen also has a section for that kind of
thing.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:36:18 -0700, ric <nospam@home.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Brazil wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
>>>piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
>>>having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
>>>media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
>>>have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.
>>
>>http://www.sleekline.com/
>
>
> Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, those computer are WAY more
> powerful than what I need to do, and also out of my price range. I
> don't need any actual computing ability other than photos, music, and
> movies. Also, I'd like to build it myself.
>
> Other ideas?

The Asus Pundit is a pretty nice quiet, small system.
The form factor is vertical, though.

The cost is under $150 and it has a lot of stuff onboard, like USB2,
Firewire, card readers, PCMCIA, audio + spdif-in/out, video, TV-out,
LAN. Just add HD, RAM, CPU, and an optical drive if you need it.

The onboard graphics is an SIS chip, so don't expect any fancy 3D
graphics. You'd probably want a Celeron for the CPU, which should
suffice as you say it doesn't need much processing power. I use one for
a MythTV machine and I am very happy with my choice.


-WD

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:01:08 GMT, Will Dormann
<wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:


>The Asus Pundit is a pretty nice quiet, small system.
>The form factor is vertical, though.
>
>The cost is under $150 and it has a lot of stuff onboard, like USB2,
>Firewire, card readers, PCMCIA, audio + spdif-in/out, video, TV-out,
>LAN. Just add HD, RAM, CPU, and an optical drive if you need it.
>
>The onboard graphics is an SIS chip, so don't expect any fancy 3D
>graphics. You'd probably want a Celeron for the CPU, which should
>suffice as you say it doesn't need much processing power. I use one for
>a MythTV machine and I am very happy with my choice.
>

Ah - this looks great! If I added a DVD drive, would I be able to get
audio out via digital coax?

Also, any suggestions on keeping it cool and quiet?

Finally, any suggestions on where to buy?

thanks for everything!

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 20:05:43 GMT, Brazil <n@y.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 12:36:18 -0700, ric <nospam@home.com> wrote:
>
>>Brazil wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to build a quiet, slim computer, with the form factor of a
>>> piece of home theater equipment like a DVD player. I'm planning on
>>> having it in the entertainment center under the TV, ONLY for use as a
>>> media player - Photos, Music, Videos, and possibly DVDs. I already
>>> have a TiVo so I would be doing any PVR stuff with it.
>>
>>http://www.sleekline.com/
>
>Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, those computer are WAY more
>powerful than what I need to do, and also out of my price range. I
>don't need any actual computing ability other than photos, music, and
>movies. Also, I'd like to build it myself.
>
>Other ideas?

You might be quite disappointed with a Via 600MHz CPU, they're
questionable for DVD playback or many other tasks. As someone
who's been down the HTPC road and also pre-planned only enough
CPU power that I "thought" would be needed, I will advise you to
plan for a lot more power than you actually need, and do not use
a CPU that doesn't HALT-Idle well (Athlon/Duron), so the
performance is there when you need it, but it still runs cool
when you don't. The ideal CPU for your project might be a P3
733, which with it's 133MHz FSB will allow integrated video with
133MHz memory bus. You wrote about a video card, but in such a
small system you are quite limited in what you can have, as a
miniATX will have only 1 PCI slot, and low-quality sound, so
already you have potential need for two cards.

Basically you already chose a case so now the next step is seeing
what motherboards are available to fit in that case, and being
very critical of the integrated components, whether you'll
actually be happy with them or if the end result is instead just
a very tiny system that is substandard at all the things you
wanted to do with it.

OEM slimline might be the way to go, as they may have low profile
but also a riser to allow more than 1 PCI slot. Even if you
didn't like the case, it might be painted to match or the parts
removed and mounted in your preferred case instead. In the past
I've generally tried to avoid such systems, at least those new
enough to be suitable for your needs, so i can't advise on
available makes or models.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Does that CPU supports SSE instructions? If you whant to use the system for
DVD decoding, it's really important to have so.

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:58:34 -0500, David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net>
wrote:


>Those VIA EPIA mobos are cute, and quiet, but they are very poor
>performers. Might be okay for playback only but if you ever want to record,
>as in adding a TV Tuner, or encode video then you're going to be wishing
>you had a LOT more processor power and, even though you have a TIVO, a
>dedicated 400 buck box that can't handle that too is rather expensive, IMO.
>
>I like the Antec Minuet too but if cost is a concern you could shave a few
>bucks off by checking pricewatch for 'book' or 'slim' cases. AOpen and
>Inwin both make them. Fortunately I don't see them listed any more but, in
>case you find one, the Linkworld book sized case is one to stay away from
>as the PSU just flat out dies after a while. I gave up on mine after the
>second one, replaced under warrantee, went south. Dern shame because it's a
>cute case and the smallest microATX slim out there (I was doing the same
>thing you're trying, 'VCR sized') but the PSU is proprietary and if it
>don't work then the rest of it is useless.
>
>Directron.com has a section for 'slim' devices, such as display and network
>cards, etc., that either come as or can be changed to half height mounting
>for the under 5 inch high cases. AOpen also has a section for that kind of
>thing.
>

Thanks for the tips!
Now I'm looking into the ASUS pundit setup, with a cheap CPU.
Any suggestions on this?

thanks!

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:58:34 -0500, David Maynard
<dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

<snip>

>I like the Antec Minuet too but if cost is a concern you could shave a few
>bucks off by checking pricewatch for 'book' or 'slim' cases. AOpen and
>Inwin both make them. Fortunately I don't see them listed any more but, in
>case you find one, the Linkworld book sized case is one to stay away from
>as the PSU just flat out dies after a while. I gave up on mine after the
>second one, replaced under warrantee, went south. Dern shame because it's a
>cute case and the smallest microATX slim out there (I was doing the same
>thing you're trying, 'VCR sized') but the PSU is proprietary and if it
>don't work then the rest of it is useless.
>
>Directron.com has a section for 'slim' devices, such as display and network
>cards, etc., that either come as or can be changed to half height mounting
>for the under 5 inch high cases. AOpen also has a section for that kind of
>thing.
>

For a while now there's been a place on ebay selling old IBM
Netvista cases dirt-cheap. I won a couple auctions at < $10 ea.
almost a year ago, am amazed that they still have some available.
The cases do require a bit of work, like drilling a hole or two
for any front-panel jacks or infrared, and likely a power supply
harness extension, but they are adequate for a low-powered SFF
miniATX, though a bit deep. Don't remember the dimensions at the
moment though, think they're approx 12W x 15L x 3.5H (inches).

They include an ACBel 90W PSU, somewhat like a small 1U psu
rotated 90' with a side fan, which has been adequate for a couple
builds running Celeron o'c to 900-1GHz, 1 HDD, DVD. The HDD
cooling isn't too good though, ended up using a 5K4 RPM model and
pointing a 60mm fan at it. Mine has only been running about a
dozen months, no idea if PSU has a good lifespan but if that's a
concern, at < $10 each it might be good to buy a couple. If the
PSU IS good, it alone might be worth cost of whole case.

The ones I bought weren't painted on the side, but I heard from
others that the paint will come off with some thinner, without
taking off the case finish.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.d [...] 60354&rd=1
(several other listings found searching "IBM Netvista Case" )

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:27:18 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>You might be quite disappointed with a Via 600MHz CPU, they're
>questionable for DVD playback or many other tasks. As someone
>who's been down the HTPC road and also pre-planned only enough
>CPU power that I "thought" would be needed, I will advise you to
>plan for a lot more power than you actually need, and do not use
>a CPU that doesn't HALT-Idle well (Athlon/Duron), so the
>performance is there when you need it, but it still runs cool
>when you don't. The ideal CPU for your project might be a P3
>733, which with it's 133MHz FSB will allow integrated video with
>133MHz memory bus. You wrote about a video card, but in such a
>small system you are quite limited in what you can have, as a
>miniATX will have only 1 PCI slot, and low-quality sound, so
>already you have potential need for two cards.
>
>Basically you already chose a case so now the next step is seeing
>what motherboards are available to fit in that case, and being
>very critical of the integrated components, whether you'll
>actually be happy with them or if the end result is instead just
>a very tiny system that is substandard at all the things you
>wanted to do with it.
>
>OEM slimline might be the way to go, as they may have low profile
>but also a riser to allow more than 1 PCI slot. Even if you
>didn't like the case, it might be painted to match or the parts
>removed and mounted in your preferred case instead. In the past
>I've generally tried to avoid such systems, at least those new
>enough to be suitable for your needs, so i can't advise on
>available makes or models.

Thanks for the info!

What does everyone think of putting a P3 733mhz chip in the ASUS
Pundit? Would this be sufficient for my meager needs?

thanks again

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 21:01:08 GMT, Will Dormann
> <wdormann@yahoo.com.invalid> wrote:
>
>
>
>>The Asus Pundit is a pretty nice quiet, small system.
>>The form factor is vertical, though.
>
>
> Ah - this looks great! If I added a DVD drive, would I be able to get
> audio out via digital coax?

Yeah, I don't see why not. I don't have a receiver that does digital
input, though, so I haven't done this myself. Keep in mind, though,
playing a DVD on a PC and outputting to a standard interlaced TV will
never look as good as a "real" component DVD player. Virtually all
computer TV-out functionality will destroy the image's original
interlacing. (This SIS chipset included). Then there's the whole VSYNC
thing which means that the frames being pumped out by your video card
aren't guaranteed to be in sync with the television's scan frequency.
Both of these issues will detract from the ability to output smooth
video.

Supposedly with some of the nVidia graphics cards and the proper Linux
drivers, it can do "true" interlaced output and also do VSYNC
correction. I don't have an nVidia card to try out in my machine, so I
can't say what kind of difference this makes. In Windows, I'm not sure
what cards do proper interlaced output. A component DVD player will
have the circuitry to handle VSYNC and interlacing, so it will always
look good.

Just to clear things up, any PC with TV-out will output an interlaced
video signal. Otherwise it wouldn't be NTSC or PAL compatible. The
key feature that I'm talking about here is if you are playing an
interlaced video on your PC. Ideally, in the process of outputting
that interlaced video to the TV, the chip should retain the video's
original interlacing and output it as-is. i.e. one field at a time.
But most TV-out chips will do some sort of scaling or processing of the
video before sending it to the TV. Therefore if you try to output an
interlaced video to the TV, it'll look like one of the first two
examples here:
http://www.100fps.com/

If this is the case, you'll need to deinterlace any video. This will
require extra CPU cycles.


> Also, any suggestions on keeping it cool and quiet?

Enable Q-Fan in the BIOS. End of story.


> Finally, any suggestions on where to buy?

Try froogle.google.com
Sort by price
cross-reference company with www.resellerratings.com


-WD

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> Thanks for the info!
>
> What does everyone think of putting a P3 733mhz chip in the ASUS
> Pundit? Would this be sufficient for my meager needs?

Won't fit. Not without a hammer.


-WD

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Brazil wrote:

> On Tue, 06 Jul 2004 15:58:34 -0500, David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net>
> wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tips!
> Now I'm looking into the ASUS pundit setup, with a cheap CPU.
> Any suggestions on this?

If you've decided on the Pundit, a cheap CPU would be the Celeron
2.4GHz. Don't let the GHz deceive you, though. It's a very low-end
chip. But it's relatively inexpensive as Intel chips go. Around $68
right now.

-WD