Celeron 466

[James]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
(Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
I disconnected the fan?

 

[Philo]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"James" <howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a
> dentist drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet
> fan" but I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry
> itself if I disconnected the fan?
>
>
>
even though that cpu does not run especially hot...you probably need
the fan...
i suppose you could try it and underclock the machine if it got too hot.

OTOH: a new fan would cost about $5 so why take a chance?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Probably. Take out more insurance and try it.

Ian

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net>, James
says...
> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
> drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
> I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
> I disconnected the fan?
>
Not i you put a decent sized heatsink on it. Alot of old Compaq
P2/Celerons had no CPU fan.


--
Conor

Opinions personal, facts suspect.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 08:21:42 -0400, "James"
<howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote:

>How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
>(Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
>server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
>drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
>I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
>I disconnected the fan?
>
>

With proper case airflow (system engineered to do so) it can
run with a passive heatsink. It didn't come with that
heatsink though, taking the fan off of the present 'sink is
not a good idea.

On the other hand since the CPU isn't very hot running you
could reduce the fan's speed with a fan controller, "7-volt
mod" (Google search it) or whichever method you prefer. A
very low RPM fan will cool MUCH better than no fan and can
be inaudible.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

James:

> the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
> drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet
> fan" but I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would
> it fry itself if I disconnected the fan?

I bet you will spend more on electricity running the server than a new fan
will cost and if it isn't worth spending $5-10 on a new fan then you don't
need the server bad enough to bother setting it up.
--
Mac Cool

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
> drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
> I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
> I disconnected the fan?

What you want, if you can get it, is the case fan blowing across
the heat sink. That's the setup in my old P2 450 Dell. No CPU fan
at all.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

James wrote:
> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run?

They'll get as hot as you want, depending on the heatsink.

> I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
> drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
> I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
> I disconnected the fan?

No, it won't fry itself because the internal thermal shutdown till lock it
up when it over heats, which it will without adequate cooling.

The thermal design power for a 466 Celeron is 27 watts. That's as much as a
1 gig tualatin and requires active cooling, meaning a heatsink and fan.

The comments about Dells 'not using a CPU fan' are misleading. They simply
have the fan mounted on the case wall instead of directly on the heatsink.
But it works in a similar manner; meaning something, e.g. a fan, to move
air over the CPU heatsink.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Yes it would.

--
DaveW



"James" <howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a
> dentist drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet
> fan" but I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry
> itself if I disconnected the fan?
>
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:10:56 -0500, David Maynard
<dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

>James wrote:
>> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run?
>
>They'll get as hot as you want, depending on the heatsink.
>
>> I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
>> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
>> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
>> drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
>> I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
>> I disconnected the fan?
>
>No, it won't fry itself because the internal thermal shutdown till lock it
>up when it over heats, which it will without adequate cooling.

IIRC, there was no internal thermal shutdown feature till
Coppermine, 500(A) MHz.

>
>The thermal design power for a 466 Celeron is 27 watts. That's as much as a
>1 gig tualatin and requires active cooling, meaning a heatsink and fan.
>
>The comments about Dells 'not using a CPU fan' are misleading. They simply
>have the fan mounted on the case wall instead of directly on the heatsink.
>But it works in a similar manner; meaning something, e.g. a fan, to move
>air over the CPU heatsink.

True, multiple OEMs had similar arrangement which could be
duplicated by crafting a shroud and attaching to PSU lower
intake, around good passive 'sink. @ 466MHz it might run a
tad undervolted too, but no way to know if motherboard
supports it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Oct 2004 19:10:56 -0500, David Maynard
> <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>
>>James wrote:
>>
>>>How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run?
>>
>>They'll get as hot as you want, depending on the heatsink.
>>
>>
>>>I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
>>>(Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
>>>server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a dentist
>>>drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but
>>>I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry itself if
>>>I disconnected the fan?
>>
>>No, it won't fry itself because the internal thermal shutdown till lock it
>>up when it over heats, which it will without adequate cooling.
>

Woops, typo up there. Meant "will" lock it up, not "till"

> IIRC, there was no internal thermal shutdown feature till
> Coppermine, 500(A) MHz.

P-IIs and PPGA celerons have on-die thermal diodes and internal thermal
shutdown.

The main point was it needs a fan.

>>The thermal design power for a 466 Celeron is 27 watts. That's as much as a
>>1 gig tualatin and requires active cooling, meaning a heatsink and fan.
>>
>>The comments about Dells 'not using a CPU fan' are misleading. They simply
>>have the fan mounted on the case wall instead of directly on the heatsink.
>>But it works in a similar manner; meaning something, e.g. a fan, to move
>>air over the CPU heatsink.
>
>
> True, multiple OEMs had similar arrangement which could be
> duplicated by crafting a shroud and attaching to PSU lower
> intake, around good passive 'sink. @ 466MHz it might run a
> tad undervolted too, but no way to know if motherboard
> supports it.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"James" <howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...

> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP
> pavilion 8543C (Walmart Special) that I would like to run
> 24/7 as a file server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is
> the CPU fan sounds like a dentist drill (and has since the
> thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but I really
> don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry
> itself if I disconnected the fan?

A 466 MHz Celeron can easily burn up without a fan because it doesn't
have built-in thermal protection, only a thermal diode that the
motherboard can read and use for its own protection of the CPU.
Unfortunately this protection is often turned off by default in th
BIOS setup.

What are the dimensions of the heatsink, excluding the fan, and how
many fins does it have? If it's a typical 60mm x 60mm x 30mm heatsink
with about 20 fins, then the CPU will burn up without a fan. To run a
466 MHz Celeron without a fan you'll need a heatsink rated for about a
1.5 GHz or faster CPU (Athlon XP1800+ speed), and to get an idea of
their dimensions, see:

www2.amd.com/us-en/Processors/TechnicalResources/1,,30_182_869_4348%5e4356,00.html?1094443213

Unfortunately most such heatsinks are too large to fit on most Socket
370 (Celeron, Pentium III) motherboards because of the surrounding
parts, such as capacitors. Exceptions are thin-fin heatsinks with
about 50 fins; they tend to be much smaller than regular heatsinks.

Your cheapest solution is a fan or a heatsink-fan on special from
Newegg.com, Compgeeks.com, svcompucycle.com, etc., but for low noise
avoid fans that spin faster than 4000 RPM.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

do_not_spam_me wrote:

> "James" <howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net>...
>
>
>>How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP
>>pavilion 8543C (Walmart Special) that I would like to run
>>24/7 as a file server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is
>>the CPU fan sounds like a dentist drill (and has since the
>>thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet fan" but I really
>>don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry
>>itself if I disconnected the fan?
>
>
> A 466 MHz Celeron can easily burn up without a fan because it doesn't
> have built-in thermal protection, only a thermal diode that the
> motherboard can read and use for its own protection of the CPU.
> Unfortunately this protection is often turned off by default in th
> BIOS setup.

From the Intel® Celeron™ Processor data sheet (with or without L2 cache):


"The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating by use of an
internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well above the normal operating
temperature to ensure that there are no false trips. The processor will
stop all execution when the junction temperature exceeds approximately 135
°C. This is signaled to the system by the THERMTRIP# (Thermal Trip) pin.
Once activated, the signal remains latched, and the processor stopped,
until RESET# goes active. There is no hysteresis built into the thermal
sensor itself; as long as the die temperature drops below the trip level, a
RESET# pulse will reset the processor and execution will continue. If the
temperature has not dropped below the trip level, the processor will
reassert THERMTRIP# and remain stopped."

THERMTRIP# is on pin AH28

>
<snip>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"James" <howa1151@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:%stcd.175581$as2.61970@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
> How hot do the old 466 celeron chips run? I have an old HP pavilion 8543C
> (Walmart Special) that I would like to run 24/7 as a file
> server/webcam/jukebox,etc. Only problem is the CPU fan sounds like a
> dentist drill (and has since the thing was new). I know I can buy a "quiet
> fan" but I really don't want to spend any money on the thing. Would it fry
> itself if I disconnected the fan?
>
>
>
I have a compaq celly 466 kicking around here, and that runs only marginally
above room temperature.

If its socket 370 you might want to upgrade to a P3, or a P3 based celeron.

hamman

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote in message news:<10n9861tpc1to9c@corp.supernews.com>...

> do not spam me wrote:

> > A 466 MHz Celeron can easily burn up without a fan because
> > it doesn't have built-in thermal protection, only a thermal
> > diode that the motherboard can read and use for its own
> > protection of the CPU

> From the Intel Celeron Processor data sheet (with or without
> L2 cache):
>
> "The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating
> by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well
> above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there
> are no false trips. The processor will stop all execution when
? the junction temperature exceeds approximately 135 C. This
> is signaled to the system by the THERMTRIP# (Thermal Trip)
> pin. Once activated, the signal remains latched, and the
> processor stopped, until RESET# goes active.

> THERMTRIP# is on pin AH28

You're right, I'm wrong. I've had the spec sheet for the Celeron
since 1999 but failed to read it adequately.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

do_not_spam_me wrote:

> David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote in message news:<10n9861tpc1to9c@corp.supernews.com>...
>
>
>>do not spam me wrote:
>
>
>>>A 466 MHz Celeron can easily burn up without a fan because
>>>it doesn't have built-in thermal protection, only a thermal
>>>diode that the motherboard can read and use for its own
>>>protection of the CPU
>
>
>> From the Intel Celeron Processor data sheet (with or without
>>L2 cache):
>>
>>"The processor protects itself from catastrophic overheating
>>by use of an internal thermal sensor. This sensor is set well
>>above the normal operating temperature to ensure that there
>>are no false trips. The processor will stop all execution when
>
> ? the junction temperature exceeds approximately 135 C. This
>
>>is signaled to the system by the THERMTRIP# (Thermal Trip)
>>pin. Once activated, the signal remains latched, and the
>>processor stopped, until RESET# goes active.
>
>
>>THERMTRIP# is on pin AH28
>
>
> You're right, I'm wrong. I've had the spec sheet for the Celeron
> since 1999 but failed to read it adequately.

Understandable as they don't really talk about it much. It just sort of
shows up in the pin list.

Some people argue that it doesn't 'work' because there's an errata on it
but the errata is that some trip at a higher temp than specified; not that
it doesn't trip.

Even though a higher temp, mine have tripped (as part of an experiment)
with no damage.

That errata was fixed at CPUID 686h stepping C0