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suggestions...300mhz atx budget system.....short

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 22, 2004 5:30:04 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

quick question....

what are the min. system requirements to run
XP connected via DSL
watch movies, listen to music (streaming)
without experiencing noticeable system lag.

I have a 300 watt atx case, and $400 i would like to fill it's guts with
some good stuff, but all i really need to do is surf around and run some
programs that are not exactly intense.

suggestions?
opinions??

p.s. i do already have a modern CRT display, mouse, keyboard, and 3.5 floppy
(but who uses 1.44 mb anyhow these days)


--
We are Many
Mark 5:9
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 22, 2004 7:10:18 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

legion:

> what are the min. system requirements to run
> XP connected via DSL
> watch movies, listen to music (streaming)
> without experiencing noticeable system lag.
>
> I have a 300 watt atx case, and $400 i would like to fill it's guts
> with some good stuff, but all i really need to do is surf around and
> run some programs that are not exactly intense.

> p.s. i do already have a modern CRT display, mouse, keyboard, and 3.5
> floppy (but who uses 1.44 mb anyhow these days)

Shuttle AN35N-Ultra Motherboard
w/ on board sound
newegg.com $53

AMD Athlon XP 2500+ , 1.83 GHz (AXDA2500BOX) Processor
Mwave.com $96

Kingston ValueRAM Dual Kits 184 Pin 512MB(256MBx2) DDR PC-3200
newegg.com $93

APOLLO ATI RADEON 9200SE 64MB DDR, DVI/TV-Out, 8X AGP, "Devil Monster 3
Newegg.com $38

Seagate Barracuda 7200.7 (ST380011A) 80 GB Hard Drive
newegg.com $62

Samsung SM 352B (SM-352BEN) CD-RW/DVD-ROM
mwave.com $53

TOTAL $395, these are all current, off-the-shelf components

Mwave and Newegg have occasional specials on various components. Mwave is
clearing out some XP 2500+ and 2600+ processors and you might save a few
more dollars depending on when you buy.

If your power supply isn't up to the task, which is possible if it's old,
here is a recommended replacement:
Sparkle 350W ATX P4/Athlon XP Ready Power Supply, Model "FSP350-60PN"
newegg.com $36

Total $431 with power supply

In any case, it's very possible for you to have a modern system capable of
all you want to do and stay within your budget.


--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 22, 2004 7:47:29 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:30:04 GMT, "legion" <many@one.body>
wrote:

>quick question....
>
>what are the min. system requirements to run
>XP connected via DSL
>watch movies, listen to music (streaming)
>without experiencing noticeable system lag.
>
>I have a 300 watt atx case, and $400 i would like to fill it's guts with
>some good stuff, but all i really need to do is surf around and run some
>programs that are not exactly intense.
>
>suggestions?
>opinions??
>
>p.s. i do already have a modern CRT display, mouse, keyboard, and 3.5 floppy
>(but who uses 1.44 mb anyhow these days)

The movies may be the most demanding part, if they're
high-res and high compression like Divx, Windows Media or
other MPEG4 compressed. In such cases the CPU should be at
least 800MHz but preferably higher, with insignificant gain
after about 1.5GHz and not much benefit past 1GHz.

Base memory for typical light uses of XP would be 256MB...
512MB even better but not necessary, especially if you
disable unneeded services and aren't the type of person to
have a ton of misc add-on applications/helpers running in
the background.

Video doesn't matter much, but integrated video on a
platform using PC133 or lower should be avoided for best
framerates with the movies. DDR memory based platform has
fast enough integrated video even in the lowly KM266
chipset, certainly nForce(1) or 2. I never recommend SIS
integrated video though, it's just too buggy even for some
basic uses.

If your case doesn't have a decent name-brand power supply
in it (and you want to avoid replacing the power supply)
stick with parts that aren't very power hungry. P4 or
Celeron faster than 2GHz, or Athlon faster than (depends on
the family) 1.2GHz T'Bird, 1.6GHz
T'Bred/Thorton/Barton/Sempron.

The ideal for your uses might be a Tualatin Celeron,
900-1.4GHz, Via 694T chipset motherboard, 384MB memory and
any video card newer than 6 years old. The issue would be
if you can find these parts at discounted prices, since
nearer normal prices they're not much of a bargain over the
higher performance of more modern parts, even if you had to
buy a power supply too, to support faster parts.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 22, 2004 9:44:41 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 15:47:29 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com>
wrote:

>On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:30:04 GMT, "legion" <many@one.body>

>If your case doesn't have a decent name-brand power supply
>in it (and you want to avoid replacing the power supply)
>stick with parts that aren't very power hungry. P4 or
>Celeron faster than 2GHz, or Athlon faster than (depends on
>the family) 1.2GHz T'Bird, 1.6GHz
>T'Bred/Thorton/Barton/Sempron.
>

I meant, avoid the aforementioned parts (or newer), to keep
power consumption lower.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 23, 2004 8:56:16 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"legion" <many@one.body> wrote in message news:<wX7ed.4077$%h1.3220@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> quick question....
>
> what are the min. system requirements to run
> XP connected via DSL
> watch movies, listen to music (streaming)
> without experiencing noticeable system lag.
>
> I have a 300 watt atx case, and $400 i would like to fill it's guts with
> some good stuff, but all i really need to do is surf around and run some
> programs that are not exactly intense.
>
> suggestions?
> opinions??
>
> p.s. i do already have a modern CRT display, mouse, keyboard, and 3.5 floppy
> (but who uses 1.44 mb anyhow these days)

As far as minimum system requirements go, I think Kony covered that area
quite well. And Mac Cool's suggested components looked good too provided
your power supply is up to the task of running them. I have some
alternative suggestions for components however... Never hurts to have a
second opinion right?

Motherboard:
EPoX "EP-8KMM3I" KM400 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL
$46.00

CPU:
AMD Sempron 2400+ 1.667GHz, Socket A Processor - Retail
$60.00

RAM:
Mushkin Basic Green 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-2700 - Retail
$78.00

HD:
Western Digital Special Edition 80GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model
WD800JB, OEM Drive Only
$59.99

CDRW/DVD:
Lite-On 52X32X52X16 Combo Drive, Model SOHC-5232K, Retail
$43.00

Total before shipping:
$286.99

Shipping to FL (for reference only):
$ 6.99

Grand total (est.):
$293.98

I made these selections based on my experience with building and repairing
PC's. These components should give you snappy performance for most day to
day tasks and not be too demanding in their power requirements. I also
selected everything from Newegg to simplify the order and minimize
shipping charges (I have nothing against Mwave, I have had good experience
with both them and Newegg). Mac Cool's suggestions will likely benchmark
much better in the video department, which would be good for 3D games, but
if all you demand is 2D video (office/productivity/DVD) then you should be
fine with the integrated adapter on the Epox MB. I would strongly recommend
staying with 512MB of RAM if you opt to go with integrated video though,
as a portion of your system memory will be allocated to the video frame
buffer and between that and XP hogging up everything else, you would not
have much room to run applications if you were to drop down to say, 256MB.

Good luck,
Nate
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 23, 2004 6:15:22 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

thanks guys for the input

for starters I'll say that mine is a "new" 300 watt pwr spply

Mac Cool

thank you

Shuttle AN35N-Ultra Motherboard
w/ on board sound

I am wondering about the quality of the audio output. I intend on wiring
the computer to existing stereo components, for music, talk, and cd/dvd
audio.

Does the Samsung write DvD as well?

Kony
thank you, your suggestions have given me a good overall impression of my
desired target.

N. Anderson

thank you

Does the semperon have on board L1 or L2? do I even really need cache anyway
with this setup?

the mushkin basic green DDR RAM is that one stick of 512?

again does the Lite-On unit you mentioned burn DVD as well?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 24, 2004 9:19:57 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

legion:

> Mac Cool
>
> thank you
>
> Shuttle AN35N-Ultra Motherboard w/ on board sound
>
> I am wondering about the quality of the audio output. I intend on
> wiring the computer to existing stereo components, for music, talk,
> and cd/dvd audio.

The onboard sound is very good and digital out is an option for the best
quality sound. If for some reason you don't like it, you can always
upgrade to a dedicated sound card in the future.

> Does the Samsung write DvD as well?

No but this one does:
http://tinyurl.com/3ulyr

Office Depot is constantly having sales and offering rebates on DVD
burners, you might want to check their sales flyer.
http://tinyurl.com/6t6mj

--
Mac Cool
October 24, 2004 12:01:57 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 13:30:04 GMT, "legion" <many@one.body> wrote:

>quick question....
>
>what are the min. system requirements to run
>XP connected via DSL
>watch movies, listen to music (streaming)
>without experiencing noticeable system lag.
>
>I have a 300 watt atx case, and $400 i would like to fill it's guts with
>some good stuff, but all i really need to do is surf around and run some
>programs that are not exactly intense.
>
>suggestions?
>opinions??
>
>p.s. i do already have a modern CRT display, mouse, keyboard, and 3.5 floppy
>(but who uses 1.44 mb anyhow these days)
>
>
>--
> We are Many
>Mark 5:9


If I were going to build a system with video emphasis with your budget
this is what I would get (Newegg prices):

AMD Sempron 2200+ 1.5GHz, 333MHz FSB, 256KB L2 Processor - OEM
$46

Speeze CPU Fan for Socket A/ 370, Model "5C12B3" -RETAIL
Model# 5C12B3
$4.99

ASRock "K7V88 RAID" VIA KT880 Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU

Model# K7V88 RAID
$46

panram 184-Pin 256MB DDR PC-3200, Model PRA400/256S - OEM
Model# PRA400/256S
$40 x 2 = $80

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 PCI Sound Card -RETAIL
Model# 70SB006003007
$29.99

SAPPHIRE ATI RADEON 9200 Video Card, 64MB DDR, 128-bit, DVI/TV-Out, 8X
AGP -OEM
Model# 1024-2C13L
$51

Hitachi 160GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model HDS722516VLAT80 Part#
14R9248, OEM Drive Only *Buffer: 8MB*
$93

Sony 8X DVD+RW/-RW Drive, Model DWU18A Beige, OEM Bulk Pack
Model# DWU18A
$57.99


Total
=======
$408.97

This gets you a very good video card and a respected sound card with a
4x/8x DVD burner for playing DVDs. Some may question the Sempron, but
the 333 MHz bus speed makes up for the core speed - it really does
test out at 2200. Twice the price doesn't buy that much more speed -
except in memory, where the PC3200 is the same price as PC2700 (and
the Asrock can be set up to 400 MHz). A matched pair of memory modules
will let you run in dual channel mode.

If I had a little more to spend I would substitute a dual layer DVD
burner and add an Allied 450 Watt power supply.

Have fun shopping!
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 24, 2004 8:43:53 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 24 Oct 2004 05:19:57 GMT, Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:

>legion:
>
>> Mac Cool
>>
>> thank you
>>
>> Shuttle AN35N-Ultra Motherboard w/ on board sound
>>
>> I am wondering about the quality of the audio output. I intend on
>> wiring the computer to existing stereo components, for music, talk,
>> and cd/dvd audio.
>
>The onboard sound is very good and digital out is an option for the best
>quality sound. If for some reason you don't like it, you can always
>upgrade to a dedicated sound card in the future.

"Full featured" sound, yes, but "good", no.
nForce2 sound is horrifically noisey, most PCI sound cards
are better for 2 channel, basic stereo sound.

Unfortunately digital out doesn't help because part of the
problem is the analog inputs, the noise just gets digitized
too. If they are muted then it gets rid of much of the
noise but not all.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 24, 2004 11:14:48 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"legion" <many@one.body> wrote in message news:<_Hted.4919$KJ6.2241@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net>...
> thanks guys for the input
>
> for starters I'll say that mine is a "new" 300 watt pwr spply
>

> N. Anderson
>
> thank you
>
> Does the semperon have on board L1 or L2? do I even really need cache anyway
> with this setup?
>
> the mushkin basic green DDR RAM is that one stick of 512?
>
> again does the Lite-On unit you mentioned burn DVD as well?

Yes, the Sempron has both 128KB of L1 and 256KB of L2 cache, and yes
you want to have both types of cache for what you want to do with your
machine. Actually, you'd have a hard time finding a modern consumer
oriented CPU without both L1 and L2 cache as they are part of the
processors architecture, used to increase performance. Yes, the
Mushkin memory I selected is a single DIMM, there is no need for two
DIMM's with the motherboard I selected as it does not offer a dual
channel mode. Unfortunately the Lite-On drive I selected does not burn
DVD's but Newegg has a few that will starting at about $64 for an OEM
Lite-On SOHW-1213S.

I chose the Sempron because it runs at the same clock speed and has
the same amount of cache as an XP2000+ (which is still a very viable
processor in it's own right) with the added benefit of a running on a
166Mhz(333Mhz effective) bus. It also is a Retail processor so it
comes with an AMD selected HSF that is assured to work effectively
with the CPU at it's rated speed, so there's no need to guess which
heat sink to buy for your shiny new processor.

The Mushkin RAM was chosen for simple fact that it just works, there
are cheaper alternatives, but I always choose Mushkin for new systems
I build and I never have trouble with it working for me.

Finally, I went with the Lite-On drive for similar reason's to those
used for the RAM above. They perform well, and are reasonably priced.

Good luck,
Nate
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 25, 2004 9:09:11 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony:

>>The onboard sound is very good and digital out is an option for the
>>best quality sound. If for some reason you don't like it, you can
>>always upgrade to a dedicated sound card in the future.
>
> "Full featured" sound, yes, but "good", no.

I disagree.

The OP stated a budget of $400 and IMO, my suggested build gives him a
modern, fast computer that meets all his goals and stays within his
immediate budget.

It is much wiser to upgrade the sound a month down the road than to buy a
sound card now and skimp on the processor to stay within budget.
--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 25, 2004 9:29:50 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 25 Oct 2004 05:09:11 GMT, Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:

>kony:
>
>>>The onboard sound is very good and digital out is an option for the
>>>best quality sound. If for some reason you don't like it, you can
>>>always upgrade to a dedicated sound card in the future.
>>
>> "Full featured" sound, yes, but "good", no.
>
>I disagree.
>
>The OP stated a budget of $400 and IMO, my suggested build gives him a
>modern, fast computer that meets all his goals and stays within his
>immediate budget.
>
>It is much wiser to upgrade the sound a month down the road than to buy a
>sound card now and skimp on the processor to stay within budget.

.... and yet, the onboard sound is NOT "very good", as I
wrote. Whether the OP wants to spend more for better sound
or not is immaterial to the issue of whether the sound is
good.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 25, 2004 9:35:01 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony:

> ... and yet, the onboard sound is NOT "very good"

I disagree.
--
Mac Cool
October 25, 2004 9:01:54 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:15:22 GMT, "legion" <many@one.body> wrote:

>
>Does the semperon have on board L1 or L2? do I even really need cache anyway
>with this setup?


Cache memory is a good thing. Some applications will run with small
amounts of cache, but they would run even better with 512 KB of L2
cache. But the cost of cache on a processor is very high. So 256 K of
cache gives much better performance than the small cache Celeron that
runs at a much higher core speed. This is a surprise to some people
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2004 5:55:09 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> runs at a much higher core speed. This is a surprise to some people

that was part of the reason for asking, I remember Celerons not having cache
or at least not both types (few years ago)
I remember thinking that is what they were putting into all of the cheaper
store modles, so it can't be good.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 26, 2004 5:55:10 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

legion wrote:

>>runs at a much higher core speed. This is a surprise to some people
>
>
> that was part of the reason for asking, I remember Celerons not having cache
> or at least not both types (few years ago)
> I remember thinking that is what they were putting into all of the cheaper
> store modles, so it can't be good.

The only Celerons without L2 cache were the original Slot-1 266 and 300 Mhz
versions circa 1997, or thereabouts. That didn't last long and the 300A
introduced 128KB full speed on-die L2.
!