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Microsoft Reveals Windows 8 OEM Licensing Prices

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July 12, 2012 7:06:39 PM

... Win8 Pro AND Office? not a bad deal at all considering most products pack Home without office.
Score
19
July 12, 2012 7:08:09 PM

"Earlier reports indicated Microsoft would charge at least $85 per device in licensing fees for Windows RT, but it's possible Microsoft lowered the price so that market prices for ARM-based Windows products don't surpass Apple's iPad pricing."

Or the earlier reports were simply wrong, it would make absolutely no sense at all to raise prices for OEM licensing with this version of windows with so much market share at stake.
Score
9
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July 12, 2012 7:09:24 PM

Pricing doesn't seem terrible for any OEM looking to bundle both Win8 and Office '13, considering what the retail price would likely be getting them separate.
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6
July 12, 2012 7:26:25 PM

Windows 8 definitely needs a touch screen to succeed. The Metro interface with a mouse or touch pad is cumbersome to use. Until my ultra book or desktop gets a touch screen, its either Windows 7 or Mountain Lion on all my computers. Don’t force feed Metro down my throat until I am ready.
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0
July 12, 2012 7:27:44 PM

They are going to have to give it away to get it to be a success. The smell of doom is in the air.
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-13
July 12, 2012 7:35:26 PM

My screen doesn't like it when I touch it :-)
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20
July 12, 2012 7:36:59 PM

bourgeoisdude"Earlier reports indicated Microsoft would charge at least $85 per device in licensing fees for Windows RT, but it's possible Microsoft lowered the price so that market prices for ARM-based Windows products don't surpass Apple's iPad pricing."Or the earlier reports were simply wrong, it would make absolutely no sense at all to raise prices for OEM licensing with this version of windows with so much market share at stake.



You have to read one thing to know this isn't official, if you didn't already remember the false Window RT pricing quote from before that all the bloggers followed: "Unnamed Taiwan-based notebook supply chain makers are reporting".

Ya, so I'm an unnamed Chinese ODM and I say that Microsoft is charging 4 gold shillings and a parrot for Windows 8.

See how that works?

In any case, what Microsoft charges OEM's is NOT what you're going to be able to buy System Builder software for. System Builder software is sold through distribution. Big OEM's buy directly from Microsoft, and they DON'T get individual media kits, COA's or documentation like you get from distribution. Those OEM's have to print their own COA's and issue their own recovery mechanism, be it a partition or DVD, so they get the licenses for a lower cost. They also have minimum order purchase commitments which standard distributors do not. Distributors don't have system builder SKU's yet, so take all of this with a grain of salt. Microsoft has never historically issued pricing for system builder SKU's before RTM either.
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10
July 12, 2012 7:42:34 PM

OsminWindows 8 definitely needs a touch screen to succeed. The Metro interface with a mouse or touch pad is cumbersome to use. Until my ultra book or desktop gets a touch screen, its either Windows 7 or Mountain Lion on all my computers. Don’t force feed Metro down my throat until I am ready.


If you don't like Metro, then don't use it. Windows 8 doesn't mean that you must extensively use Metro. There is a desktop shell and a start menu is easy, quick, and free to install. ViStart/ViOrb or Classic shell and you're good to go. Yes, they work with the latest version of Windows 8 and will work with the RTM version too.
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7
July 12, 2012 8:06:53 PM

All I read was that OEMS, instead of finally shipping laptop screens with non-crap displays, will be adding worthless touch instead.

I swear it feels like the resolution of laptop screens is getting worse with time.
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15
July 12, 2012 8:16:15 PM

OsminWindows 8 definitely needs a touch screen to succeed. The Metro interface with a mouse or touch pad is cumbersome to use. Until my ultra book or desktop gets a touch screen, its either Windows 7 or Mountain Lion on all my computers. Don’t force feed Metro down my throat until I am ready.


No, it doesn't. Unless you're saying that using the mouse wheel to scroll and the left button to click on things is "Cumbersome", in which case you must hate every GUI in existance. Windows 7 -> Winkey, mouseover, click. Windows 8 -> Winkey, scroll wheel, click. Doesn't seem like a radical departure to me...

And nobody is forcing you to use anything, stop being so overly melodramatic just because you don't want to admit that you're too inept to adapt quickly to a new UI. As I've said here before, give it 2 years and you and all the other haters will be saying it's the best Windows yet, just like the bandwagon hated XP because it was too different from '98.
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5
July 12, 2012 8:16:40 PM

blazorthonIf you don't like Metro, then don't use it. Windows 8 doesn't mean that you must extensively use Metro. There is a desktop shell and a start menu is easy, quick, and free to install. ViStart/ViOrb or Classic shell and you're good to go. Yes, they work with the latest version of Windows 8 and will work with the RTM version too.

I thought MS was actively removing code from Win8 in order to remove the ability entirely to use/have the start menu. No?
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5
July 12, 2012 8:29:44 PM

teh_chemI thought MS was actively removing code from Win8 in order to remove the ability entirely to use/have the start menu. No?


That's why you're installing a new one with those programs instead of trying to re-enable MS's start menu which MS is getting rid of completely anyway.
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5
July 12, 2012 8:45:07 PM

After seeing Windows 8, they probably SHOULD throw in Office 2013. Just one problem, I wouldn't know how to START Office 2013.
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-5
July 12, 2012 8:45:26 PM

blazorthonIf you don't like Metro, then don't use it. Windows 8 doesn't mean that you must extensively use Metro. There is a desktop shell and a start menu is easy, quick, and free to install. ViStart/ViOrb or Classic shell and you're good to go.
Then why bother?
A) you cannot use Windows 8 without metro, they are tied together and bounce you back and forth. How are you going to get to any application that is NOT pinned to your desktop or taskbar?

B) Why hide the start button?

C) You really expect people to go out and look for these ADD-ON fixes? Why the Frack should I or anyone else be required to go out, vet some add-on (which MS may also disable for all we know) to fix a broken Operating System that WE spent money on?

In my experiences... people don't DO much in the way of ADD-ONs for standard software. That includes games, consoles, Operating Systems. Look at the strong number of people who use IE for a browser because its there. How about the game Unreal Tournament 3? Out the door, a fairly crappy game. Onces it all patched up, RE-ADD the disabled Vehicle Zoom and add about 50+ good maps, its a damn good game. But looking on line, no servers are running such patches and maps which would make a HUGE difference. Its too much hassle.

I expect and hope that Windows8 blows up in microsoft's face big time. I will go Linux before I go Windows8. After trying out Windows8 on a test computer, I downloaded LinuxMint, its price = $0. And it makes MORE sense in usage than Windows 8!
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-1
July 12, 2012 8:48:28 PM

Charging for Office? For a while, Microsoft has been allowing vendors to install "Office 2010 Starter" for free. Its an AD-based Office-Home edition. No Outlook, and mostly functional version of Office 2010. Its a good deal.

Very few people are going to spend $500~600 for a WART (Windows Arm RT) tablet which has almost no Apps and cannot run Windows x86 software that also has less stats than the iPad3 for the same price.
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-8
July 12, 2012 9:22:49 PM

belardoThen why bother?A) you cannot use Windows 8 without metro, they are tied together and bounce you back and forth. How are you going to get to any application that is NOT pinned to your desktop or taskbar?B) Why hide the start button?C) You really expect people to go out and look for these ADD-ON fixes? Why the Frack should I or anyone else be required to go out, vet some add-on (which MS may also disable for all we know) to fix a broken Operating System that WE spent money on?In my experiences... people don't DO much in the way of ADD-ONs for standard software. That includes games, consoles, Operating Systems. Look at the strong number of people who use IE for a browser because its there. How about the game Unreal Tournament 3? Out the door, a fairly crappy game. Onces it all patched up, RE-ADD the disabled Vehicle Zoom and add about 50+ good maps, its a damn good game. But looking on line, no servers are running such patches and maps which would make a HUGE difference. Its too much hassle.I expect and hope that Windows8 blows up in microsoft's face big time. I will go Linux before I go Windows8. After trying out Windows8 on a test computer, I downloaded LinuxMint, its price = $0. And it makes MORE sense in usage than Windows 8!


http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Shell...
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Shell...
http://www.softpedia.com/get/Desktop-Enhancements/Shell...

No need to spend the ten seconds it takes to look for them because now they're right here in front of you.

A) Metro is only needed to log in and even then, there might be workarounds for that. Just install one of the above start menu suits (ViStart/ViOrb or Classic Shell or one of the several others) and you'll never need to use Metro except for logging in and clicking on the desktop shell. Even then, Metro can be customized to be far more useful than many of you people give it credit for. It does not need a touch screen to be useful like the hype suggests. If you've used it then you should know that.

B) The start button isn't hidden if you use these programs.

C) If people are too lazy to spend a few seconds to download a fix and then a few more to install it (if it takes you even five minutes to do this, then you either have a crap dial-up internet connection, a crap computer, you don't care about how long it takes, you're an idiot, or any combination of them), then I worry about the future of humanity. Notice how IE's market share just keeps going down and down. Most people who still use it regularly instead of superior browsers either don't give a crap, use it so lightly that the difference is hard to notice, or their computer illiterate people who don't know any better.

I too prefer Linux in many cases, but I won't pretend that Windows 8 is as bad as it is made out to be just because some other over-reacting people saw something that looked different from their usually stuff and freaked out over it and started spreading hype and other such crap.
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3
July 12, 2012 9:23:30 PM

belardoCharging for Office? For a while, Microsoft has been allowing vendors to install "Office 2010 Starter" for free. Its an AD-based Office-Home edition. No Outlook, and mostly functional version of Office 2010. Its a good deal.Very few people are going to spend $500~600 for a WART (Windows Arm RT) tablet which has almost no Apps and cannot run Windows x86 software that also has less stats than the iPad3 for the same price.


You can't install Office Starter 2010 on Windows 8 directly due to compatibility issues with the App-V components in the package. Upgraders will need a hotfix to rectify this, but they are killing Office Starter 2010 for new PC's. They are already telling OEM's and System Builders to install a new Office OPK that substitutes Office Starter with an Office trial. Seems they didn't like the idea that if given something for free, people will use it instead of paying for the full version of Office. They are going to be updating the Office Web Apps on SkyDrive to replace Office Starter as the "free" productivity package, probably because they can get better ad revenue by using online services instead of installed software. The first update will bring more features that will put the Web Apps more in-line (but not completely) with Office Starter. Eventually when Office 2013 ships, the web apps will be updated again to match the standard software and will include the Cosmopolitan theme (that's what they call the Metro-like theme for desktop apps that Office 2013 will share).
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0
Anonymous
July 12, 2012 9:29:50 PM

Windows Store software cannot be pirated. This will make the RT version much, much less popular than the Pro.
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-5
July 12, 2012 9:35:12 PM

blazorthonThat's why you're installing a new one with those programs instead of trying to re-enable MS's start menu which MS is getting rid of completely anyway.

So much for standardization.
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0
July 12, 2012 9:37:54 PM

Considering PCs don't cost much more than 10" Tablets, be glad, that Microsoft has failed to get much traction on mobile market.
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0
July 12, 2012 9:51:02 PM

blazorthonNo need to spend the ten seconds it takes to look for them because now they're right here in front of you.A)blah blah blah

You ARE NOT GETTING IT! I know about the start menu replacements. Does this mean HP, Dell and whoever are going to install it on THEIR computers? Will there be a sticker, a flyer or some sort of tool or notice to tell people such tools like these are OUT there?

Your typical human is going to buy the shit-Windows8 PC, not know how to use it, get sick of it - take it back for a refund. What, is there some tech at Walmart of Bestbuy that is going to show them HOW to do it? Much less do it for them for free?!

Mentality of the consumer: Why the hell should I go out of my way to fix a broken product?! Such half-ass shit like the Playbook and the Touchpad is what resulted in their failures. People want their electronics to work out of the box, not fix them.
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-4
July 12, 2012 9:55:05 PM

Easy Fix to solve the Win 8 problem. I present to you, Windows 7! Windows 8 is so lame , I would consider it an embarrassment to release such garbage. I, like so many others, foresee it to be just like Vista.
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-8
July 12, 2012 9:56:19 PM

waethornYou can't install Office Starter 2010 on Windows 8 directly due to compatibility issues with the App-V components in the package.

My post about office2010 and Windows7 has nothing to do with Windows8. it was an example of how MS gives the ability of the OEMs to include a functional MS-Office suite which costs them nothing.

Sad to see it go... its free and good enough for home use. Understandably, MS would rather make the $100 or so per home licence... than count on ads and hope the user eventually buys it.


I set up a few low-end name-brand PCs for some clients (I build only high end) and they would have bought Office2010. So instead, they used the Starter. :)  I was going to install Libreoffice on one of them...

So when they kill off starter, I'll just go back to LibreOffice. Its up to them if they want or need a MSOffice. Makes little difference to me. What worries me more is the availability of Windows7 after the crappy Win8 hits the market. I cannot sell a sub-standard Win8PC to anyone.
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3
July 12, 2012 9:59:56 PM

three0dusterEasy Fix to solve the Win 8 problem. I present to you, Windows 7! Windows 8 is so lame , I would consider it an embarrassment to release such garbage. I, like so many others, foresee it to be just like Vista.
Your solution is only VALID *IF* microsoft continues to sell Windows7 retail and OEM versions. If all you can buy is Windows8 in 2013... what WILL you do?

Your choices: pirate Windows 7 or whatever is left that is horded.... or go Linux.

On Amazon... I see opened and sealed WindowsXP going for $100~300! I sold some of my extra OEM XPs (I stocked up during Vista) online... sold them at costs.
Score
1
July 12, 2012 10:27:46 PM

belardoThen why bother?A) you cannot use Windows 8 without metro, they are tied together and bounce you back and forth. How are you going to get to any application that is NOT pinned to your desktop or taskbar?B) Why hide the start button?C) You really expect people to go out and look for these ADD-ON fixes? Why the Frack should I or anyone else be required to go out, vet some add-on (which MS may also disable for all we know) to fix a broken Operating System that WE spent money on?In my experiences... people don't DO much in the way of ADD-ONs for standard software. That includes games, consoles, Operating Systems. Look at the strong number of people who use IE for a browser because its there. How about the game Unreal Tournament 3? Out the door, a fairly crappy game. Onces it all patched up, RE-ADD the disabled Vehicle Zoom and add about 50+ good maps, its a damn good game. But looking on line, no servers are running such patches and maps which would make a HUGE difference. Its too much hassle.I expect and hope that Windows8 blows up in microsoft's face big time. I will go Linux before I go Windows8. After trying out Windows8 on a test computer, I downloaded LinuxMint, its price = $0. And it makes MORE sense in usage than Windows 8!


A) Most people won't have programs that are not on their desktop. Honestly, most people just "next next next". And whoever is so afraid of metro (mostly "techies"), surely knows how to use WIN + F

B) So they don't have to add buttons to each corner =)

C) Yeah, it's highly unlikely that an average person would install a third party Start -button, but I don't really think they have to either. There is nothing so complicated in Win 8, that you can't "fix" with a 2-minute tutorial. Everything that is new either has a tutorial, or someone teaching you how to use it. Actually, once they get used to it, Metro is IMO far better for the average joe and jane, that the traditional desktop.
Score
3
July 12, 2012 10:36:17 PM

belardoYou ARE NOT GETTING IT! I know about the start menu replacements. Does this mean HP, Dell and whoever are going to install it on THEIR computers? Will there be a sticker, a flyer or some sort of tool or notice to tell people such tools like these are OUT there?Your typical human is going to buy the shit-Windows8 PC, not know how to use it, get sick of it - take it back for a refund. What, is there some tech at Walmart of Bestbuy that is going to show them HOW to do it? Much less do it for them for free?!Mentality of the consumer: Why the hell should I go out of my way to fix a broken product?! Such half-ass shit like the Playbook and the Touchpad is what resulted in their failures. People want their electronics to work out of the box, not fix them.


People like that, the average consumer, usually aren't going to do anything where Windows 8 could cause problems without work done on it anyway. What will they do, launch IE and Office? Both of those will probably either be in the Metro menu, on the taskbar, on the desktop, or more likely, a combination of any two of the three or all three. If someone doesn't understand how to click an icon on the desktop, hit the start button or try putting the mouse where the start menu used to be and clicking an icon in the Metro interface, or how to click an icon on the taskbar, then they obviously don't know how to use any semi-modern Windows system. They couldn't use Windows 7 very well either especially considering how often Windows 7 computers have the entire task bar hidden and only set to appear when you hover the mouse over the side of the screen that has it (obviously usually the bottom of the screen). This isn't rocket science nor an even more complex field of work.

There's nothing that I don't get about your argument; I simply completely disagree with your argument. If it really was such a problem, I guarantee that at least until MS calls foul, the OEMs could do something such as using one of these programs if the license for them permits business usage without licensing fees. Metro doesn't make these products broken at all, so it doesn't need to be fixed... It's only for the whiners such as you who can't get over yourself. There's nothing that the start menu can do that can't be done in other ways. Heck, taskbar shortcuts and menus can do it all just as easily and even if they couldn't, Metro is not useless garbage like some people seem to think that it is. It does work out of the box, but MS doesn't care to please everyone and doesn't seem to care about people whining about it either.
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2
July 12, 2012 11:32:15 PM

Metro can be made to be tolerable. However, I can't see any real tangible benefit to tolerating it. ...and I get to lose my few little widget-like gadgets too. I see no compelling reason to pay to leave Windows 7 and OS X. I'll use Windows 8 only as much as my job requires, me thinks, and I will not be buying it, I don't care how economical MS makes it.
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2
July 12, 2012 11:36:13 PM

Ummm, throw the licensing fee on top of touch screen brings the laptop devise to a "rather unfriendly level"?

Implying that they never had to pay a licensing fee for Windows before, or that Win 8 is somehow not actually CHEAPER than Win 7 was? And, that touch-screens are NOT expensive, as the plethora of inexpensive tough-screen phones and now tablets on the market proves?

Excuses, excuses.
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5
July 12, 2012 11:37:40 PM

It all depends on what you are doing with your computer, if you are the average home user then you will probably be happy with Windows 8 and the kids will love it and wont miss the start menu at all. If you are a power user, professional, Tomshardware reader or use it for work, then you will hate Windows 8 and one of the first things you would want to do (apart from installing Windows 7) is to add the start menu back. I imagine that these people will have no problem finding a third party utility to do this
Score
3
July 13, 2012 12:04:03 AM

halcyonMetro can be made to be tolerable. However, I can't see any real tangible benefit to tolerating it. ...and I get to lose my few little widget-like gadgets too. I see no compelling reason to pay to leave Windows 7 and OS X. I'll use Windows 8 only as much as my job requires, me thinks, and I will not be buying it, I don't care how economical MS makes it.


Considering that MS recently admitted to there being a severe vulnerability with their widgets/gadgets system, I wouldn't use it as a reason to not use Windows 8. Regardless, I don't see a problem with staying with Windows 7 if you want to. I just don't like it when people mindlessly trash something and then try to make excuses about it. Windows 8 is not bad and it is most certainly not crap, but people like to call it that. It is lighter, faster, snappier, and otherwise superior in almost every way to Windows 7, granted not to an extreme that makes it worth paying more money for IMO.
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0
July 13, 2012 12:47:29 AM

pedro_mannSo much for standardization.

Exactly what standardization are you referring to? Any "standardization" in operating systems would prevent innovation or even evolution....which would result in a stale market.
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1
July 13, 2012 1:38:47 AM

The thing is you just can't force something on consumors that they were soo used to something for 17 years and all of a sudden change things up and expect people to just accept it. It doesn't work that way. if many consumors dislike the new changes in Windows 8 there will be major changes in Windows 9. if metor becomes a big issue to many consumors micrsoft will change that and give people an option to shut it off in Windows 9 if the no start menu becomes an issue microsoft will put it back on in Windows 9. All of this comes down to the consumors and their take on Windows 8.
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0
July 13, 2012 5:17:28 AM

JOSHSKORNAfter seeing Windows 8, they probably SHOULD throw in Office 2013. Just one problem, I wouldn't know how to START Office 2013.
^ Classic PEBKAC case study.
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1
July 13, 2012 8:46:41 AM

pjmelectIt all depends on what you are doing with your computer, if you are the average home user then you will probably be happy with Windows 8 and the kids will love it and wont miss the start menu at all. If you are a power user, professional, Tomshardware reader or use it for work, then you will hate Windows 8 and one of the first things you would want to do (apart from installing Windows 7) is to add the start menu back. I imagine that these people will have no problem finding a third party utility to do this


I don't really understand why professional usage of Win 8 would suffer from Metro. There is nothing you can do with Win 7 that you can't do with Win 8, and Win 8 is faster, more often than not. I know I come off as bit of a fanboy here, but from my perspective there is no difference in not upgrading from XP to 7, and not upgrading from 7 to 8.
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0
July 13, 2012 9:07:30 AM

Windows 8 needs to die quick, brutal death, and if Microsoft's idea of innovation is to burn bridges and force users to go their way, then they need to die as well.
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-2
July 13, 2012 9:57:14 AM

Quote:
I don't really understand why professional usage of Win 8 would suffer from Metro. There is nothing you can do with Win 7 that you can't do with Win 8, and Win 8 is faster, more often than not. I know I come off as bit of a fanboy here, but from my perspective there is no difference in not upgrading from XP to 7, and not upgrading from 7 to 8.


For professional users, while you can do everything with Windows 8, Metro is an annoyance and gets in the way, the lack of a start menu just adds to the frustration of using Windows 8. I agree Windows 8 feels faster and in test that I have done it is overall about 15% faster.

On the preview version that I have tested some of the Metro apps are very bad, for example the email app is worse than useless, and the map app while good lacks a print function etc. On the other hand the weather app and the store app are very good.
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-1
July 13, 2012 12:44:22 PM

pjmelectFor professional users, while you can do everything with Windows 8, Metro is an annoyance and gets in the way, the lack of a start menu just adds to the frustration of using Windows 8. I agree Windows 8 feels faster and in test that I have done it is overall about 15% faster. On the preview version that I have tested some of the Metro apps are very bad, for example the email app is worse than useless, and the map app while good lacks a print function etc. On the other hand the weather app and the store app are very good.


Once again, I don't see how Metro gets in the way. Is it the fullscreen aspect of it? But it's not like traditional Start doesn't take your attention away from any and every window on your screen anyways. And I didn't mean that Win 8 just works faster, but most things users can do faster as well.
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0
July 13, 2012 12:56:20 PM

BloobOnce again, I don't see how Metro gets in the way. Is it the fullscreen aspect of it? But it's not like traditional Start doesn't take your attention away from any and every window on your screen anyways. And I didn't mean that Win 8 just works faster, but most things users can do faster as well.


....and it's just plain simpler for everyday tasks. And there's far better security for Metro apps. Quite frankly, I'd rather teach someone how to use Windows 8 and sell them a new computer than charge them to clean up all their spyware browser toolbars and Java-exploit viruses.
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0
July 13, 2012 1:22:38 PM

blazorthonhttp://www.softpedia.com/get/Deskt [...] tart.shtmlhttp://www.softpedia.com/get/Deskt [...] iOrb.shtmlhttp://www.softpedia.com/get/Deskt [...] hell.shtmlNo need to spend the ten seconds it takes to look for them because now they're right here in front of you.A) Metro is only needed to log in and even then, there might be workarounds for that. Just install one of the above start menu suits (ViStart/ViOrb or Classic Shell or one of the several others) and you'll never need to use Metro except for logging in and clicking on the desktop shell. Even then, Metro can be customized to be far more useful than many of you people give it credit for. It does not need a touch screen to be useful like the hype suggests. If you've used it then you should know that.B) The start button isn't hidden if you use these programs.C) If people are too lazy to spend a few seconds to download a fix and then a few more to install it (if it takes you even five minutes to do this, then you either have a crap dial-up internet connection, a crap computer, you don't care about how long it takes, you're an idiot, or any combination of them), then I worry about the future of humanity. Notice how IE's market share just keeps going down and down. Most people who still use it regularly instead of superior browsers either don't give a crap, use it so lightly that the difference is hard to notice, or their computer illiterate people who don't know any better.I too prefer Linux in many cases, but I won't pretend that Windows 8 is as bad as it is made out to be just because some other over-reacting people saw something that looked different from their usually stuff and freaked out over it and started spreading hype and other such crap.

Don't bother, the people marking any positive comments down to infinity just need to be directed to the following customer information email:-

hysterical.over.reaction@bandwagon.jump
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1
July 13, 2012 5:38:11 PM

blazorthonThere's nothing that I don't get about your argument; I simply completely disagree with your argument. Metro doesn't make these products broken at all, so it doesn't need to be fixed... It's only for the whiners such as you who can't get over yourself. There's nothing that the start menu can do that can't be done in other ways.

That's what you are not getting. Making changes for improvement is a good thing, IMHO. Making changes for the sake of making changes is stupid.
Hence, hiding the Start button and saying"we got rid of it" = stupid. The space is there, it's just 1/4 the original size. Is hat supposed to be an improvement? Explain.

Yes yes... I know, Windows is now an IE / browser / Office launcher now. Which gets us back to *WHY* we need metro being bolted onto the face of Windows8? I get they want metro (mobile) maps running on desktop computers... they could have simple made Metro APPS run on the desktop. Simple. created a special ICON or Launcher window that'll make them run. I doubt anyone would bitch about it.

Metro adds NO actual benefit to the desktop experience. It has that "different wow" factor, that is it. Its slick in some ways... but also dreadfully plain on a desktop monitor... even on my 15" work-monitor. Almost everyone who HATES Metro have no issues with the interface on a tablet. I think its elegant and straight forward.

But what does it actually do for the desktop experience? Look at vista/Win7 WIN-TAB page Rolodex style task switcher... looks cool. But who uses it? The taskbar is more usable... And Alt-TAB works better and faster.... its old style. And there are replacement ones that work even better.

An example of IMPROVEMENT: Vista Task bar is no different than XP's. Its just a skin job. But Win7 made the PIN function an improvement over Quick launch. The added JumpList with a thumbnail is cool and useful. That is a feature that helped sell Win7. Only I do non-default is I prefer my tasks to show labels because I may have 2-3 tasks and having 3 exact icons means I'd have to figure out which is which - rather than knowing. On my 24" monitor, I have plenty of space.

Windows8's metro and ejected Start Menu add no productivity value. People like you say "who cares, who uses the start menu?!" Okay, the same can be said about the Start Screen called "METRO".

Therefore, Metro was an answer to a question that was never asked.

Apple shares elements of OS-X and iOS... in terms of usage. Noobs are not getting lost with the difference. Metro was never needed for Windows. Nobody asked for it.

For the WinX86 tablet, a METRO launcher on top of the desktop would have been enough with the option to be full metro.

On top of all that, microsoft has killed AERO and replaced with ugliness that is equal to Windows98.

Keep in mind, since the spring 2001 official release of Apple's OS X. It hasn't changed much. The skin has been updated, features added, CPU changes, bugs killed and added. But that is it. Microsoft has gone through 5 in the same time span (4 drastic). This is what makes Canon Cameras great to work with, the UI hasn't changed since 2001. While most other companies, including Nikon may have 2-3 different UI at the same time depending on the model. Check it out next time you are in a store. A $90 Canon and a $500 model, same interface.

I'm all for progress in computer tech. I grew up installing beta OS, hacked OS (Making AmigaOS 3.0 from 1993 work on a 1985 Amiga1000), rebuilding computers every 6 months etc... nowadays, I want it to work and leave me alone.

We'll know very quickly in 2013 how good or bad Metro will be. I'm betting glorious failure.

When my exGF who is of avg 27years of age modern computer users - refuses to even give Win8 a chance. Its a BAD sign. She was done with it before I could show her the good things about Win8.
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July 13, 2012 5:57:06 PM

PS: wish there was an edit - sorry about typos / mixed up words here and there. maps = apps, stupid little things like that. Someone said there was an ability to edit, I'm just not seeing it.
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July 13, 2012 11:45:38 PM

As I mentioned before, people are hedonists at heart. They want the most amount of comfort out of life with as little "pain" as possible. People don't like change. People will fight it with every fiber of their being, and "change just for the sake of change" just gives them ammunition to fight change.

In a nutshell, average Joe seems to like Metro (or can at least tolerate it), and computer geeks who are complacent with what they know hate it. The older we get, the more stubborn we get because we already went through the "pain" of learning about life...we don't want to relearn it and go through the same amount of "pain."
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July 13, 2012 11:46:36 PM

belardoWhen my exGF who is of avg 27years of age modern computer users - refuses to even give Win8 a chance. Its a BAD sign. She was done with it before I could show her the good things about Win8.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_the_well
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July 14, 2012 1:56:12 AM

Explain a bit more about poisoning the well? I told her I had mixed feelings about it, told her to power up and use the computer. I didn't say I hated it or anything like that. She walked away from the computer after a few minutes. I really tried to show her the nice enhancements of Windows8. If I can't get a 27yr old to use Windows8, how the hell can I get business people or others use it? My clients are 30~65 years old. A few won't even leave XP (ugh).
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July 17, 2012 8:03:50 PM

Why does every Win8 haters sound like they are still in grade school?

And as far as new users...this is what their experience is going to be:
Start new computer...input email address...assign password. Start screen pops up. Oh look all my contacts! Look IE icon...I bet I can use that to surf the web. A mail icon...maybe thats email. Photos?! I wonder if thats where my pictures are? Whoa! FB and Twitter feeds are integrated right in...cool! How do I start Office? Oh look I see the Office tile...maybe thats it. I wonder whats in the market place? Oooh look. Netflix, FB, Twiiter, LinkedIN, Kindle...and they all stay on my desktop when I download them so I know where to find them quickly.

Looks like a 5 year old could handle this. All the haters should have no problem since thats their median age.
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July 17, 2012 8:07:22 PM

belardoExplain a bit more about poisoning the well? I told her I had mixed feelings about it, told her to power up and use the computer. I didn't say I hated it or anything like that. She walked away from the computer after a few minutes. I really tried to show her the nice enhancements of Windows8. If I can't get a 27yr old to use Windows8, how the hell can I get business people or others use it? My clients are 30~65 years old. A few won't even leave XP (ugh).


Yeah I'm sure your 27yo GF who didn't even take a look at W8 is an equal represention of corperate America with millions of dollars to invest. And btw my 27yo GF really liked it and cant wait for it to come out. And since my GF is better looking than yours, I'm right.
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July 17, 2012 10:15:31 PM

My question is this: If I put 2 new, otherwise identical, desktops out and place Windows 7 on one and Windows 8 on the other and ask 1000 randomly chosen, but admittingly, Windows users ages 20-40 which one they'd rather use what do you think the majority of them will say? Which one do you think the majority of them will gravitate to?

Why do you think that is so?

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July 17, 2012 10:25:32 PM

halcyonMy question is this: If I put 2 new, otherwise identical, desktops out and place Windows 7 on one and Windows 8 on the other and ask 1000 randomly chosen, but admittingly, Windows users ages 20-40 which one they'd rather use what do you think the majority of them will say? Which one do you think the majority of them will gravitate to?Why do you think that is so?


Well, if these test subjects were given more than a week to get used to W8 I bet they would choose W8. Gamers would pick W8 because they would notice that games run better and the OS runs lighter. People would are into social media would pick W8 because of its integration into the OS. Power users would eventually use W8 because there is no LACK in functionality from W7 and you have all the added features of W8. Developers would use W8 for obvious reasons. It may not be immediate acceptance. But like my coworkers who said they didn't care about W7 3 years ago when they had XP, they are all clamoring for it now. Because they saw the advantages from those that used it.
It really isn't a matter of which is better(preference doesn't determine practicality anyway) Its a matter of adoption and habit. Truth is the only reason people reject W8 is because the differences are greater than the differences from XP to 7. But once they get beyond this, W8 is truly a better OS. If you haven't been using it for the past few months how can you have a honest opinion anyway? Plus we aren't even using the full release copy with more features etc
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July 17, 2012 10:37:36 PM

@ejb...valid points. Anyone else?
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