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Noise coming from unknown source... Possibly CPU or Power ..

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November 11, 2004 11:11:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Hi,

I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply

Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 11, 2004 4:44:00 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Falcon1209" <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36ac9392.0411110811.4d0b86e7@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

Does your system have variable fan(s) which speed up in response to CPU or
MB temperature? Could be that one of them is defective and only makes the
worst noise when the system tries to speed it up in response to a heat rise.
Normally it is dead simple to isolate the source of fan noise by the simple
expedient of careful listening although on some occasions I've had to
temporarily(!) unplug then one at a time to determine when the noise drops.
Of course this demands that the MB not be one that monitors for stalled
fans...
--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com
November 11, 2004 9:47:02 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Falcon1209 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance

Are you sure it's not coming out of the speakers?

Perhaps a wire is brushing against one of the fans that's under thermal
control?

Beyond that, I'd suspect the power supply.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form che...@prodigy.net.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 11, 2004 10:32:29 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
> Any suggestions?

That's your CPU fan speeding up, as your CPU starts to do some
real work and gets hot. The fan is causing vibrations in your
motherboard or case, magnifying the noise. I had the same problem.
Get a fan and heatsink combination for your CPU designed to run
quiet. The most important thing is that the fan be limited in its
top speed, so that it can't run faster than about 3500 RMPs. Once
a fan gets up around 6000 or 7000 RPMs, it vibrates like a bitch.
Make sure you don't use too much thermal paste when you seat the
new heatsink.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 11, 2004 10:35:33 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 11 Nov 2004 08:11:19 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
(Falcon1209) wrote:

>Hi,
>
>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
>Any suggestions?
>
>Thanks in advance


Put a piece of ear to your tube and listen around the
system for it. Might be an inductor on the motherboard,
oddly there seems to be increased occurrance of inductor
noise reported recently.
November 12, 2004 6:38:23 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:
> On 11 Nov 2004 08:11:19 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
> (Falcon1209) wrote:
>
>
>>Hi,
>>
>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>
>>Any suggestions?
>>
>>Thanks in advance
>
>
>
> Put a piece of ear to your tube and listen around the
> system for it. Might be an inductor on the motherboard,
> oddly there seems to be increased occurrance of inductor
> noise reported recently.

Stay away from pieces of ear. You can get in real trouble from the
previous owner and the law.

:-)

Clyde
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 1:42:37 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Hi,

> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply

> Any suggestions?

Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 2:34:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>Hi,
>
>
>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
>
>>Any suggestions?
>
>
> Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
> make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>
> Arno

Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a £35 case and it was fine.

Ian
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 2:34:46 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Ian Harding wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:
>
>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>
>>
>>
>>> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>
>>
>>
>>> Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>>
>> Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>> make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>
>> Arno
>
>
> Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
> similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
> to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a £35 case and it was fine.
>
> Ian

Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold

Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)

That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 4:00:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Ian Harding <iharding160@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Hi,
>>
>>
>>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>
>>
>>>Any suggestions?
>>
>>
>> Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>> make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>
>> Arno

> Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
> similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
> to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a £35 case and it was fine.

My thought was that a quality PSU will actually switch off at, e.g.,
110% or so rated load, while the true maximum load will be more
like 120% or higher. Reading tests in c't (german computer magazine),
I get the impression that cheaper PSUs actually often have problems
with 100% load and have a real maximum load more like 80% or so.

But, yes, even branded PSUs may have problems. It depends on a lot
of factors, but the most important is that a solidly designed PSU
cannot be made for the prices the PC-world is willing to pay. Just
loog what an Enermax high-load or an Antec individually regulated
PSU costs. As a consequence there are trade-offs and problems may
result.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 9:12:27 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 13 Nov 2004 13:00:51 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
wrote:


>My thought was that a quality PSU will actually switch off at, e.g.,
>110% or so rated load, while the true maximum load will be more
>like 120% or higher. Reading tests in c't (german computer magazine),
>I get the impression that cheaper PSUs actually often have problems
>with 100% load and have a real maximum load more like 80% or so.

Well there's labeled capacity then there's actual capacity.
We can pretty much ignore the label as percentages can't be
directly applied to that at all except with an known entity,
a specific power supply. Instead looking at actual
sustainable capacity, the PSU will run indefinitely. When
looking at peak capacity, there will be either an overheat
limit, an under (or over) voltage limit, or on a really
nasty power supply, extreme ripple (worse situation,
eventually killing parts). ON a decent PSU you probably can
expect surge 120% of capacity, but on a cheap PSU you might
not be able to expect even 80% sustained capacity.


>But, yes, even branded PSUs may have problems. It depends on a lot
>of factors, but the most important is that a solidly designed PSU
>cannot be made for the prices the PC-world is willing to pay. Just
>loog what an Enermax high-load or an Antec individually regulated
>PSU costs. As a consequence there are trade-offs and problems may
>result.
>

Enermax is a bad example, their sustained rating for MTBF
is only 70% of the labeled wattage. That makes their $100
460W PSU inferior to even a $4 Sparkle 350W. Power supply
reviews from the likes of Tom's Hardware have also revealed
their actual capacity to be far lower than the Enermax
labeled capacity in testing.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 13, 2004 9:35:45 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <ON4ld.78715$HA.24737@attbi_s01>, Clyde
<lughclyde@attbi.comedy> writes
>kony wrote:
>> On 11 Nov 2004 08:11:19 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
>> (Falcon1209) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Hi,
>>>
>>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>
>> Put a piece of ear to your tube and listen around the
>> system for it. Might be an inductor on the motherboard,
>> oddly there seems to be increased occurrance of inductor
>> noise reported recently.
>
>Stay away from pieces of ear. You can get in real trouble from the
>previous owner and the law.
>
Sure, but most people are happy to lend an ear if asked.
--
Roger Hunt
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 1:21:29 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Roger Hunt" wrote:
> Clyde writes
> >kony wrote:
> >> (Falcon1209) wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>Hi,
> >>>
> >>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> >>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> >>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> >>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> >>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> >>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> >>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
> >>
> >> Put a piece of ear to your tube and listen around the
> >> system for it. Might be an inductor on the motherboard,
> >> oddly there seems to be increased occurrance of inductor
> >> noise reported recently.
> >
> >Stay away from pieces of ear. You can get in real trouble from the
> >previous owner and the law.
> >
> Sure, but most people are happy to lend an ear if asked.

And even if they won't allow it be lent, they may often allow it to be bent.

Jon
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 7:50:19 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> On 13 Nov 2004 13:00:51 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:

[...]

> Enermax is a bad example, their sustained rating for MTBF
> is only 70% of the labeled wattage. That makes their $100
> 460W PSU inferior to even a $4 Sparkle 350W. Power supply
> reviews from the likes of Tom's Hardware have also revealed
> their actual capacity to be far lower than the Enermax
> labeled capacity in testing.

Looks a bit different in the c't tests. And MTBF at 70% is not
uncommon in quality power electronics. They are just being
honest, as opposed to other PSU manufacturers.

The $4 sparkle is more likely to have 250W actual capacity and
to blow up at 300W (happened to c't with several cheap PSUs
before the maximum load was reached). Enermax will just
switch off, as any quality PSU will do.

Do you have a reference to a test of Enermax PSUs that shows
this effect? So far I only saw them comming out among the best.

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 7:52:27 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
> Ian Harding wrote:
>> Arno Wagner wrote:
>>
>>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Any suggestions?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>>> make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>>
>>> Arno
>>
>>
>> Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
>> similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
>> to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a ?35 case and it was fine.
>>
>> Ian

> Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold

> Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
> Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
> Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
> Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
> Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
> Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
> Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
> Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)

> That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
> you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).

Yes, this is a perfectly correct labeled 300W (400W peak) PSU.
What do you not like about this? Since HDD spin-up generates much
higher load, doing this type of design is appropriate in
PC PSU design. Or did they claim 400W _sustained_ on the
box?

Arno
--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 7:52:28 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>>Ian Harding wrote:
>>
>>>Arno Wagner wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Any suggestions?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>>>>make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>>>
>>>>Arno
>>>
>>>
>>>Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
>>>similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
>>>to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a ?35 case and it was fine.
>>>
>>>Ian
>
>
>>Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold
>
>
>>Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
>>Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
>>Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
>>Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
>>Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
>>Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)
>
>
>>That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
>>you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).
>
>
> Yes, this is a perfectly correct labeled 300W (400W peak) PSU.

Where did you get the ideal it's 'labeled' a 300 Watt supply? It's labeled
and sold as a "Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold."

> What do you not like about this?

Putting on the sticker that +5V is 30 Amps when it's capability is 25 Amps,
or that 3.3V is 20A instead of 14A, or that 12V is 16A instead of 12A is
not "perfectly correct labeled."

I'm going by what a purchaser said he got from Q-Tec when he emailed them
because I can't, for the life of me, find a single amp rating on their
entire web site.

http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13023&s...

> Since HDD spin-up generates much
> higher load, doing this type of design is appropriate in
> PC PSU design. Or did they claim 400W _sustained_ on the
> box?

'Peak' without a time interval means nothing. Tell me it's 400 watts for 30
seconds and maybe I'll buy that's for spin up time but just "400 watts
peak," if they had bothered to even mention 'peak', could be for 5
nanoseconds for all anyone knows. Btw, what is it that's supposedly being
'spun up' on the 3.3V rail so that it's labeled 20 Amp when it's really 14?

It's simply ka-ka to label and sell a PSU by a meaningless 'peak' rating.


>
> Arno
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 10:46:05 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 14 Nov 2004 04:50:19 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
wrote:

>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>> On 13 Nov 2004 13:00:51 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
>> wrote:
>
>[...]
>
>> Enermax is a bad example, their sustained rating for MTBF
>> is only 70% of the labeled wattage. That makes their $100
>> 460W PSU inferior to even a $4 Sparkle 350W. Power supply
>> reviews from the likes of Tom's Hardware have also revealed
>> their actual capacity to be far lower than the Enermax
>> labeled capacity in testing.
>
>Looks a bit different in the c't tests. And MTBF at 70% is not
>uncommon in quality power electronics. They are just being
>honest, as opposed to other PSU manufacturers.

Not "just being honest" compared to all though.


>The $4 sparkle is more likely to have 250W actual capacity and
>to blow up at 300W (happened to c't with several cheap PSUs
>before the maximum load was reached). Enermax will just
>switch off, as any quality PSU will do.

A Typo, should've read "$45".

>
>Do you have a reference to a test of Enermax PSUs that shows
>this effect? So far I only saw them comming out among the best.

Do you have reference that shows them outputting their rated
wattage, sustained? If they can't sustain their rated
wattage isn't it a bit of a fraud?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 10:46:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:

> On 14 Nov 2004 04:50:19 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 13 Nov 2004 13:00:51 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
>>>wrote:
>>
>>[...]
>>
>>
>>>Enermax is a bad example, their sustained rating for MTBF
>>>is only 70% of the labeled wattage. That makes their $100
>>>460W PSU inferior to even a $4 Sparkle 350W. Power supply
>>>reviews from the likes of Tom's Hardware have also revealed
>>>their actual capacity to be far lower than the Enermax
>>>labeled capacity in testing.
>>
>>Looks a bit different in the c't tests. And MTBF at 70% is not
>>uncommon in quality power electronics. They are just being
>>honest, as opposed to other PSU manufacturers.
>
>
> Not "just being honest" compared to all though.
>
>
>
>>The $4 sparkle is more likely to have 250W actual capacity and
>>to blow up at 300W (happened to c't with several cheap PSUs
>>before the maximum load was reached). Enermax will just
>>switch off, as any quality PSU will do.
>
>
> A Typo, should've read "$45".
>
>
>>Do you have a reference to a test of Enermax PSUs that shows
>>this effect? So far I only saw them comming out among the best.
>
>
> Do you have reference that shows them outputting their rated
> wattage, sustained? If they can't sustain their rated
> wattage isn't it a bit of a fraud?

I think you're misinterpreting the MTBF number being at 70% load. That does
not mean it can't sustain 100%; they've just the load point where they did
the MTBF rating, is all.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 10:48:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 14 Nov 2004 04:52:27 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
wrote:


>> Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold
>
>> Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
>> Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
>> Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
>> Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>> Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>> Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
>> Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
>> Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)
>
>> That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
>> you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).
>
>Yes, this is a perfectly correct labeled 300W (400W peak) PSU.
>What do you not like about this? Since HDD spin-up generates much
>higher load, doing this type of design is appropriate in
>PC PSU design. Or did they claim 400W _sustained_ on the
>box?

No, it's NOT even correctly labeled for a 300W PSU. 300W
PSU typically has 180-200W combined 3V+5V capacity, not
150W. Decent 300W PSU can sustain more than 150W but that
"400W" PSU, apparently can't.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 5:14:43 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 14 Nov 2004 03:18:33 -0600, David Maynard
<dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

>kony wrote:
>
>> On 14 Nov 2004 04:50:19 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 13 Nov 2004 13:00:51 GMT, Arno Wagner <me@privacy.net>
>>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>[...]
>>>
>>>
>>>>Enermax is a bad example, their sustained rating for MTBF
>>>>is only 70% of the labeled wattage. That makes their $100
>>>>460W PSU inferior to even a $4 Sparkle 350W. Power supply
>>>>reviews from the likes of Tom's Hardware have also revealed
>>>>their actual capacity to be far lower than the Enermax
>>>>labeled capacity in testing.
>>>
>>>Looks a bit different in the c't tests. And MTBF at 70% is not
>>>uncommon in quality power electronics. They are just being
>>>honest, as opposed to other PSU manufacturers.
>>
>>
>> Not "just being honest" compared to all though.
>>
>>
>>
>>>The $4 sparkle is more likely to have 250W actual capacity and
>>>to blow up at 300W (happened to c't with several cheap PSUs
>>>before the maximum load was reached). Enermax will just
>>>switch off, as any quality PSU will do.
>>
>>
>> A Typo, should've read "$45".
>>
>>
>>>Do you have a reference to a test of Enermax PSUs that shows
>>>this effect? So far I only saw them comming out among the best.
>>
>>
>> Do you have reference that shows them outputting their rated
>> wattage, sustained? If they can't sustain their rated
>> wattage isn't it a bit of a fraud?
>
>I think you're misinterpreting the MTBF number being at 70% load. That does
>not mean it can't sustain 100%; they've just the load point where they did
>the MTBF rating, is all.

It also seems to coincide to results of online tests like
one at Tom's Hardware and elsewhere (I forget which other
reviews at the moment), that the figure isn't just
corresponding to MTBF rating, but futher the MTBF rating
applies becaues it is the atual capacity. Then there are
user experiences and physical construction. It is not
common to spec 70% for MTBF, unless that's necessary to get
"competitive" results.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 9:24:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
> Arno Wagner wrote:

>> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>>
>>>Ian Harding wrote:
>>>
>>>>Arno Wagner wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>>>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>>>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>>>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>>>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>>>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>>>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Any suggestions?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>>>>>make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>>>>
>>>>>Arno
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
>>>>similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
>>>>to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a ?35 case and it was fine.
>>>>
>>>>Ian
>>
>>
>>>Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold
>>
>>
>>>Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
>>>Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
>>>Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
>>>Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>>Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>>Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
>>>Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
>>>Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)
>>
>>
>>>That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
>>>you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).
>>
>>
>> Yes, this is a perfectly correct labeled 300W (400W peak) PSU.

> Where did you get the ideal it's 'labeled' a 300 Watt supply? It's labeled
> and sold as a "Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold."

From this line here:

">>Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)"

You mean this part was not on the label? If so, you are perfectly
correct that it is mislabeled and sold as a far more powerful unit
than it actually is.

>> What do you not like about this?

> Putting on the sticker that +5V is 30 Amps when it's capability is 25 Amps,
> or that 3.3V is 20A instead of 14A, or that 12V is 16A instead of 12A is
> not "perfectly correct labeled."

> I'm going by what a purchaser said he got from Q-Tec when he emailed them
> because I can't, for the life of me, find a single amp rating on their
> entire web site.

O.K., that is a definite "hands off" indication. If they hide their
specs then there is something fishy.

> http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13023&s...

>> Since HDD spin-up generates much
>> higher load, doing this type of design is appropriate in
>> PC PSU design. Or did they claim 400W _sustained_ on the
>> box?

> 'Peak' without a time interval means nothing. Tell me it's 400 watts for 30
> seconds and maybe I'll buy that's for spin up time but just "400 watts
> peak," if they had bothered to even mention 'peak', could be for 5
> nanoseconds for all anyone knows. Btw, what is it that's supposedly being
> 'spun up' on the 3.3V rail so that it's labeled 20 Amp when it's really 14?

"Peak" rating for PSUs is in the 1...30 Minute range in sensible
designs. If they do not say anything, then that is a bad sign.

O.K., I misunderstoos what was actually on the label and
what you got from other sources. I agree with you now that
I know the details.

Arno

--
For email address: lastname AT tik DOT ee DOT ethz DOT ch
GnuPG: ID:1E25338F FP:0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
"The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws" - Tacitus
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 14, 2004 9:29:36 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Arno Wagner wrote:

> In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>>Arno Wagner wrote:
>
>
>>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ian Harding wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Arno Wagner wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc Falcon1209 <falcon1209@hotmail.com>
>>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
>>>>>>>excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
>>>>>>>a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
>>>>>>>the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
>>>>>>>start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
>>>>>>>QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
>>>>>>>Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Any suggestions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Overloaded cheap PSU without overload protection? A PSU should not
>>>>>>make these noises except when close to or over the allowed load.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Arno
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Not necessarily overloaded, although cheap may be a factor! I had a
>>>>>similar problem with a brand new Q-TEC 400W PSU recently, swapped back
>>>>>to the 350W obscure brand PSU that came with a ?35 case and it was fine.
>>>>>
>>>>>Ian
>>>
>>>
>>>>Numbers I found on a review of the Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold
>>>
>>>
>>>>Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)
>>>>Output current +5V [A] 25A (Sticker 30A)
>>>>Output current +12V [A] 12A (Sticker 16A)
>>>>Output current -5V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>>>Output current -12V [A] 0,5A (Sticker 1,0A)
>>>>Output current +3.3V [A] 14A (Sticker 20A)
>>>>Output current +5V STB [A] 1,5A (Sticker 2,0A)
>>>>Maximal total power for 3.3 and 5 combined [Watt] 150 W (Sticker 180W)
>>>
>>>
>>>>That '400 watt' is 'peak' power but it's really a 300 Watt supply (assuming
>>>>you can believe their 'confessional' numbers).
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes, this is a perfectly correct labeled 300W (400W peak) PSU.
>
>
>>Where did you get the ideal it's 'labeled' a 300 Watt supply? It's labeled
>>and sold as a "Q-TEC 400W Dual Fan Gold."
>
>
> From this line here:
>
> ">>Total "Real" power output [W] 300 (Peak 400)"
>
> You mean this part was not on the label? If so, you are perfectly
> correct that it is mislabeled and sold as a far more powerful unit
> than it actually is.

Right. The numbers up there were what the person posting the review (on a
reseller's site in the "user reviews" section) said was in the email he
received from Q-Tec when he queried about the specs and the apparent reason
for the email is he was having all sorts of power up problems with it
(which doesn't help the 'spin up' theory any).


>>>What do you not like about this?
>
>
>>Putting on the sticker that +5V is 30 Amps when it's capability is 25 Amps,
>>or that 3.3V is 20A instead of 14A, or that 12V is 16A instead of 12A is
>>not "perfectly correct labeled."
>
>
>>I'm going by what a purchaser said he got from Q-Tec when he emailed them
>>because I can't, for the life of me, find a single amp rating on their
>>entire web site.
>
>
> O.K., that is a definite "hands off" indication. If they hide their
> specs then there is something fishy.
>
>
>>http://www.qtec.info/products/product.htm?artnr=13023&s...
>
>
>>>Since HDD spin-up generates much
>>>higher load, doing this type of design is appropriate in
>>>PC PSU design. Or did they claim 400W _sustained_ on the
>>>box?
>
>
>>'Peak' without a time interval means nothing. Tell me it's 400 watts for 30
>>seconds and maybe I'll buy that's for spin up time but just "400 watts
>>peak," if they had bothered to even mention 'peak', could be for 5
>>nanoseconds for all anyone knows. Btw, what is it that's supposedly being
>>'spun up' on the 3.3V rail so that it's labeled 20 Amp when it's really 14?
>
>
> "Peak" rating for PSUs is in the 1...30 Minute range in sensible
> designs.

Would seem to make over current protection problematic if you're going to
allow '30 minutes' of non sustainable operation.

> If they do not say anything, then that is a bad sign.

Yeah. Not publishing specs is always a bad sign. However, even if the
'peak' were a valid surge rating I'd still have problems with calling the
PSU that. A "300 Watt PSU (peak 400)," perhaps; but not "400 Watt Dual Fan
Gold." And not even if they said "400 Watt (peak) PSU" because that says
nothing about what the 'real' (sustainable) watts are (not to mention you
need amps per rail anyway and they don't publish that at all).

>
> O.K., I misunderstoos what was actually on the label and
> what you got from other sources. I agree with you now that
> I know the details.

Understandable.

I should repeat that I haven't seen the sticker either. As I said, I'm
going by the 'user review' but, after seeing the Q-Tec site with no
meaningful specs at all, I tend to believe him.

I should also note that even if all the, IMO deceptive, numbers were
'explained' on the label that that's 'too late'. You had to BUY it,
thinking it was a 400 Watt PSU, to 'discover' you got a 300 Watt PSU.

> Arno
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 18, 2004 2:58:32 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 17 Nov 2004 14:37:52 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
(Falcon1209) wrote:


>Ok Guys,
>
>Maybe this will help.
>
>After some troubleshooting, I opened up my BIOS during the "quiet
>state", entered the "PC Health Status" screen and saw that the CPU Fan
>RPMS were at about 2500 +/- 100 then after playing some games, it was
>running at about 5600 in the loud state... 5600? Whoa. I may be wrong
>but thats really fast?
>I dont know about the whole power supply but it seems really hot
>(actually its borderline between Hot and warm) when i turn it off. So
>the powersupply came with a wintergreen barebones system.
>(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...)
>
>This might resolve youre debate on the power supply issue.
>
>Here are my more detailed specs.
>
>Wintergreen PM800-M2 Socket 478 Barebones
>Pentium 4 3.0GHZ HT 800MHz FSB
>160GB Western Digital HD
>2 X 256 233MHZ Ram
>Chaitech Nvidia GeForce 4 TI 4200
>Windows XP Pro SP2

Now we're getting somewhere.

Basically the whole thing is junk... no surprise there, it's
still a great deal for the after rebate price but it needs
some work...

The rear perforations below the power supply simply reduce
chassis cooling, they need cut out. The front intake is
inadequate as well.

The power supply is a turbolink/Channel Well that's junk, it
ought to be replaced before it fails, and it certainly will
fail if it's running in those warm->temp ranges already.
Figure it's more like a junk 200W PSU than a decent 250W,
let alone 350W.

Basically these basic things ought to be taken care of
before anything else, unless you want the system to be an
EZ-bake oven.
November 18, 2004 7:29:44 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

So how about a reccomended (Cost effective) procedure? (New Case w/ just
psu?, psu replacement)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:q4pnp0pdk4cdbffsc0onofkfbqjoc48t1f@4ax.com...
> On 17 Nov 2004 14:37:52 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
> (Falcon1209) wrote:
>
>
>>Ok Guys,
>>
>>Maybe this will help.
>>
>>After some troubleshooting, I opened up my BIOS during the "quiet
>>state", entered the "PC Health Status" screen and saw that the CPU Fan
>>RPMS were at about 2500 +/- 100 then after playing some games, it was
>>running at about 5600 in the loud state... 5600? Whoa. I may be wrong
>>but thats really fast?
>>I dont know about the whole power supply but it seems really hot
>>(actually its borderline between Hot and warm) when i turn it off. So
>>the powersupply came with a wintergreen barebones system.
>>(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...)
>>
>>This might resolve youre debate on the power supply issue.
>>
>>Here are my more detailed specs.
>>
>>Wintergreen PM800-M2 Socket 478 Barebones
>>Pentium 4 3.0GHZ HT 800MHz FSB
>>160GB Western Digital HD
>>2 X 256 233MHZ Ram
>>Chaitech Nvidia GeForce 4 TI 4200
>>Windows XP Pro SP2
>
> Now we're getting somewhere.
>
> Basically the whole thing is junk... no surprise there, it's
> still a great deal for the after rebate price but it needs
> some work...
>
> The rear perforations below the power supply simply reduce
> chassis cooling, they need cut out. The front intake is
> inadequate as well.
>
> The power supply is a turbolink/Channel Well that's junk, it
> ought to be replaced before it fails, and it certainly will
> fail if it's running in those warm->temp ranges already.
> Figure it's more like a junk 200W PSU than a decent 250W,
> let alone 350W.
>
> Basically these basic things ought to be taken care of
> before anything else, unless you want the system to be an
> EZ-bake oven.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 18, 2004 9:15:48 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:29:44 GMT, "Falcon1209"
<falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:

>So how about a reccomended (Cost effective) procedure? (New Case w/ just
>psu?, psu replacement)

yes, a new case or just cut out the rear fan mounts, install
fans there, and cut out a bit of the front for intake. Then
either way, a different power supply. I'm not personally
very fond of the motherboard either, but you already have
it, might as well use it till the wheels fall off.
November 19, 2004 10:35:58 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<udfop0l80lkam6mdu5bpv7diat2psghtts@4ax.com>...
> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:29:44 GMT, "Falcon1209"
> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >So how about a reccomended (Cost effective) procedure? (New Case w/ just
> >psu?, psu replacement)
>
> yes, a new case or just cut out the rear fan mounts, install
> fans there, and cut out a bit of the front for intake. Then
> either way, a different power supply. I'm not personally
> very fond of the motherboard either, but you already have
> it, might as well use it till the wheels fall off.

A few questions.

1. The excess rpms coming from the CPU fan are making the noise right?

2. Then is getting a new case and powersupply going to fix this?

3. How long will my current motherboard last?

4. Will my current motherboard give me any slowdown in performance?

5. How about this one?
(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...)
If its not, please reccommend a Case PSU combo that is. Preferbly
from TigerDirect to please my dad.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 19, 2004 8:09:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 19 Nov 2004 07:35:58 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
(Falcon1209) wrote:

>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message news:<udfop0l80lkam6mdu5bpv7diat2psghtts@4ax.com>...
>> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:29:44 GMT, "Falcon1209"
>> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >So how about a reccomended (Cost effective) procedure? (New Case w/ just
>> >psu?, psu replacement)
>>
>> yes, a new case or just cut out the rear fan mounts, install
>> fans there, and cut out a bit of the front for intake. Then
>> either way, a different power supply. I'm not personally
>> very fond of the motherboard either, but you already have
>> it, might as well use it till the wheels fall off.
>
>A few questions.
>
>1. The excess rpms coming from the CPU fan are making the noise right?

Sounds plausible, but only you have it in front of you, open
and see for yourself.


>2. Then is getting a new case and powersupply going to fix this?

Of course not, though if the board has a temp-variable fan
control feature it should lower RPM some, but probably not
much, most likely it's just a cheap heatsink with a smaller,
higher RPM fan. You could try a lower RPM fan or fan
controller to reduce the RPM, but if it's not too good a
cooler it may increase noise. In such cases a better
heatsink and fan combo optimized for lower noise is the
ultimate solution.

>
>3. How long will my current motherboard last?

417 days.
Seriously though, I am not a fortune teller, it is not built
as well as some and therefore may fail sooner, even sooner
if case temps are high and/or with poor power supply. At
any rate it's still there, inexpensive, might as well get as
much use as possible and not worry till the time comes.

>
>4. Will my current motherboard give me any slowdown in performance?

A motherboard change would not bring a cost-effective
performance increase. You'll have to consider your most
demanding use(s) to determine if the specs of your system
are optimal or not.

>
>5. How about this one?
>(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...)
> If its not, please reccommend a Case PSU combo that is. Preferbly
>from TigerDirect to please my dad.

That is a cheap junky case and bad power supply too. It
looks nicer than it really is, but the bubble lights are an
interesting novelty. You should convince dad that
TigerDirect is a deceitful company and has BBB complaints,
poor customer reveiws and should be avoided altogether.

The only thing TigerDirect has that's decent at a better
price is the following, but I'm not partial to the color.
If you don't might or like fugly lime then it might be one
alternative (no power supply, add a Sparkle 350+W
separately):
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
November 19, 2004 8:44:21 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:ch9sp0ltv3qah3ot3nr7k3kljtsrd3c2vr@4ax.com...
> On 19 Nov 2004 07:35:58 -0800, falcon1209@hotmail.com
> (Falcon1209) wrote:
>
> >kony <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:<udfop0l80lkam6mdu5bpv7diat2psghtts@4ax.com>...
> >> On Thu, 18 Nov 2004 04:29:44 GMT, "Falcon1209"
> >> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >So how about a reccomended (Cost effective) procedure? (New Case w/
just
> >> >psu?, psu replacement)
> >>
> >> yes, a new case or just cut out the rear fan mounts, install
> >> fans there, and cut out a bit of the front for intake. Then
> >> either way, a different power supply. I'm not personally
> >> very fond of the motherboard either, but you already have
> >> it, might as well use it till the wheels fall off.
> >
> >A few questions.
> >
> >1. The excess rpms coming from the CPU fan are making the noise right?
>
> Sounds plausible, but only you have it in front of you, open
> and see for yourself.
>
>
> >2. Then is getting a new case and powersupply going to fix this?
>
> Of course not, though if the board has a temp-variable fan
> control feature it should lower RPM some, but probably not
> much, most likely it's just a cheap heatsink with a smaller,
> higher RPM fan. You could try a lower RPM fan or fan
> controller to reduce the RPM, but if it's not too good a
> cooler it may increase noise. In such cases a better
> heatsink and fan combo optimized for lower noise is the
> ultimate solution.
>
> >
> >3. How long will my current motherboard last?
>
> 417 days.
> Seriously though, I am not a fortune teller, it is not built
> as well as some and therefore may fail sooner, even sooner
> if case temps are high and/or with poor power supply. At
> any rate it's still there, inexpensive, might as well get as
> much use as possible and not worry till the time comes.
>
> >
> >4. Will my current motherboard give me any slowdown in performance?
>
> A motherboard change would not bring a cost-effective
> performance increase. You'll have to consider your most
> demanding use(s) to determine if the specs of your system
> are optimal or not.
>
> >
> >5. How about this one?
>
>(http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
=720575&Tab=0&NoMapp=0)
> > If its not, please reccommend a Case PSU combo that is. Preferbly
> >from TigerDirect to please my dad.
>
> That is a cheap junky case and bad power supply too. It
> looks nicer than it really is, but the bubble lights are an
> interesting novelty. You should convince dad that
> TigerDirect is a deceitful company and has BBB complaints,
> poor customer reveiws and should be avoided altogether.
>
> The only thing TigerDirect has that's decent at a better
> price is the following, but I'm not partial to the color.
> If you don't might or like fugly lime then it might be one
> alternative (no power supply, add a Sparkle 350+W
> separately):
>
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
>
Ok, forget TigerDirect then. They seemed overpriced anyway.

Can you just give me a good (quiet, safe and inexpensive) set up of a PSU,
Case, and CPU HSF? Because it seems my judgement has been terrible so far.

And a good way to get that Stock Intel HSF off. Those brackets are stubborn.

Thanks
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 19, 2004 9:32:42 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:44:21 GMT, "Falcon1209"
<falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:


>http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
>>
>Ok, forget TigerDirect then. They seemed overpriced anyway.
>
>Can you just give me a good (quiet, safe and inexpensive) set up of a PSU,
>Case, and CPU HSF? Because it seems my judgement has been terrible so far.


Take a look at the Antec cases with 120mm rear fan at
http://www.newegg.com

Heatsinks are such commodity items that it really depends on
how much you're willing to spend. Thermalright are good,
but mainly choose one with thick copper on the bottom and at
least an 80mm x 25mm thick fan, with max RPM below 3500,
even lower max RPM if there is no speed controller included.

>
>And a good way to get that Stock Intel HSF off. Those brackets are stubborn.
>
>Thanks
>

Take your time. If the TIM (thermal phase-change pad) seems
to have permanently bonded the CPU to the sink then run the
system for awhile at full load to heat it up, THEN power off
and remove it while hot.
November 19, 2004 10:20:06 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:1pesp01m4cph2hsh10boi6ngd5l3vqk66q@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 17:44:21 GMT, "Falcon1209"
> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/ite...
513720&Sku=MTX-GNS-UF
> >>
> >Ok, forget TigerDirect then. They seemed overpriced anyway.
> >
> >Can you just give me a good (quiet, safe and inexpensive) set up of a
PSU,
> >Case, and CPU HSF? Because it seems my judgement has been terrible so
far.
>
>
> Take a look at the Antec cases with 120mm rear fan at
> http://www.newegg.com
Hows this?
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
Is it Micro ATX Compatible?
>
> Heatsinks are such commodity items that it really depends on
> how much you're willing to spend. Thermalright are good,
> but mainly choose one with thick copper on the bottom and at
> least an 80mm x 25mm thick fan, with max RPM below 3500,
> even lower max RPM if there is no speed controller included.

I have no idea what fan to get. All the thermalright were really small. If
the stock fan included with the processor is really that bad, give me a
precise reccomendation. Like exactly what fan to get. Lets not get too
pricey. Im not the one paying for this.

>
>
> >And a good way to get that Stock Intel HSF off. Those brackets are
stubborn.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
>
> Take your time. If the TIM (thermal phase-change pad) seems
> to have permanently bonded the CPU to the sink then run the
> system for awhile at full load to heat it up, THEN power off
> and remove it while hot.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
November 19, 2004 10:45:25 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:20:06 GMT, "Falcon1209"
<falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:

>
>I have no idea what fan to get. All the thermalright were really small. If
>the stock fan included with the processor is really that bad, give me a
>precise reccomendation. Like exactly what fan to get. Lets not get too
>pricey. Im not the one paying for this.
>

There are plenty of reviews on the 'net, read a few and find
one in the price-range you desire. There are thermalrights
that aren't small, check their website.
November 19, 2004 10:45:26 PM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:k8jsp05n653flgqovd8kec7hodtosgnq1o@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:20:06 GMT, "Falcon1209"
> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>I have no idea what fan to get. All the thermalright were really small.
>>If
>>the stock fan included with the processor is really that bad, give me a
>>precise reccomendation. Like exactly what fan to get. Lets not get too
>>pricey. Im not the one paying for this.
>>
>
> There are plenty of reviews on the 'net, read a few and find
> one in the price-range you desire. There are thermalrights
> that aren't small, check their website.
I really dont care that much about what fan I get. I just want a fan thats
relatively quiet and not that expensive. Please just give me a specific
reccomendation
November 20, 2004 3:05:45 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Another Update:

After my dad came home, I ran the BIOS PC Health Screen and saw that the CPU
RPMS were at 5600 as usual.Then after waiting for the CPU RPMS to go down, I
wanted to take the side panel off. Almost as soon as I did that the CPU RPMS
plummitted down to 3000 then slowly went down to 2600. There was also a CPU
temp drop of 6 degrees Celsius. But after just leaning the side panel
against my computer started to make the cpu fan speed up again.
I think its just a ventilation problem, so I'm going to forget the CPU Fan
altogether. Any reccomendations on ventilation... The previous suggestions
of cutting out the perferated panel in the back and the front seem like they
wouldnt work that well. Perhaps this case would be better.
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

"Falcon1209" <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%6und.3$9z.0@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...
>
> "kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:k8jsp05n653flgqovd8kec7hodtosgnq1o@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 19 Nov 2004 19:20:06 GMT, "Falcon1209"
>> <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>I have no idea what fan to get. All the thermalright were really small.
>>>If
>>>the stock fan included with the processor is really that bad, give me a
>>>precise reccomendation. Like exactly what fan to get. Lets not get too
>>>pricey. Im not the one paying for this.
>>>
>>
>> There are plenty of reviews on the 'net, read a few and find
>> one in the price-range you desire. There are thermalrights
>> that aren't small, check their website.
> I really dont care that much about what fan I get. I just want a fan thats
> relatively quiet and not that expensive. Please just give me a specific
> reccomendation
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 8, 2005 2:09:47 AM

Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.systems,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Could be a faulty hard drive going bad.or your processor fan might be going
as well.
"Falcon1209" <falcon1209@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:36ac9392.0411110811.4d0b86e7@posting.google.com...
> Hi,
>
> I recently assembled a P4 3.0 GHZ computer and it has been making
> excessive amounts of noise. I replaced the faulty video card fan with
> a new 3rd party fan and it still makes the noise. It makes less noise
> the first few minutes of startup and remains relatively quiet until I
> start using resource demanding applications such as games, WinRAR, or
> QuickPAR. Its a really loud humming noise almost a buzzing noise.
> Possibly coming from CPU or Power Supply
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks in advance
!