In an industry that is facing the perfect storm, only Apple, Asus and Lenovo are keeping their heads above the water.
Gartner Shows PC Shipments Stagnating, Again : Read more
Gartner Shows PC Shipments Stagnating, Again : Read more
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lunyone
Splendid
- Feb 22, 2006
- 6,517
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Most people are buying laptops and not spending a whole lot on them, from what I've seen from friends. I just bought a laptop, but my last PC purchase was in '06 time frame. I would probably buy more parts, but currently there isn't a real need for me and I also don't really have the $ to do it either.
I have never manage to figure out how the `F.. the same applications just keeps using more and more RAM and cpu power for every year that goes, as if they were updating the programs to just consume more power making us buy new PC's.
On another note, ofc there is little need to upgrade your 4-5year old computer when it can manage to play every game there is, yes even battlefield 3works great aslong as you play on laptop sized monitor 1280x720 highquality. Which is more than enough to have a great visual experience.
I can already see now utterly clueless people going like "PC is dying guys LUL", in 2years when the new consoles are releassed and new engines that can't run smoothly on todays computers (unreal engine 4, new cry engine? maybe a super upgraded quake engine, doom4 anyone) I'm sure that the PC market will ones again be king of the hill.
On another note, ofc there is little need to upgrade your 4-5year old computer when it can manage to play every game there is, yes even battlefield 3works great aslong as you play on laptop sized monitor 1280x720 highquality. Which is more than enough to have a great visual experience.
I can already see now utterly clueless people going like "PC is dying guys LUL", in 2years when the new consoles are releassed and new engines that can't run smoothly on todays computers (unreal engine 4, new cry engine? maybe a super upgraded quake engine, doom4 anyone) I'm sure that the PC market will ones again be king of the hill.
About 1 Billion People use the internet.... we still got 6 billion more people that will need to get on! 
theconsolegamer
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- Sep 29, 2011
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I love how Apple add phone and tablet figures to a PC shipment table and get away with it. No way in hell is Apple MAC's/PC's market is growing.
boiler1990
Splendid
- Dec 21, 2009
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[citation][nom]theconsolegamer[/nom]I love how Apple add phone and tablet figures to a PC shipment table and get away with it. No way in hell is Apple MAC's/PC's market is growing.[/citation]
I wonder where Gartner pulls these numbers from. Technically these are Gartner's numbers, not Apple's.
I wonder where Gartner pulls these numbers from. Technically these are Gartner's numbers, not Apple's.
- Jul 16, 2009
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CaedenV
Splendid
- Jun 14, 2011
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[citation][nom]Granter[/nom]I have never manage to figure out how the `F.. the same applications just keeps using more and more RAM and cpu power for every year that goes, as if they were updating the programs to just consume more power making us buy new PC's.[/citation]
Actually, the trend now is in de-bloating software. Everything from Windows, to Office, to even high end Adobe software runs faster now for the same tasks than they did 5 years ago, and with Win8 we are going to see an acceleration of this trend as software is going to be designed for tablets and phones as the primary medium instead of desktops.
High end Adobe suites will ever require more hardware for the new features that they come out with (like automated motion blur removal in the new Photoshop), but for simple edits in Premiere or Photoshop, it will run faster on the same hardware compared to the older revisions because they are making the code tighter, and these new engines are more intelligent about resource handling. These new softwares are not so efficient that they are 'amazingly' faster than their previous revisions, but it is a trend that people enjoy, so software makers will continue it.
I do have a fear of the death of the PC though:
I think when the C2Duo/Quad came out we finally saw the first CPU that could in fact handle 90+% of people's CPU needs. Yes, to do anything exciting it needs to be paired with an SSD and a GPU, and have fast internet access, but for everything from web browsing, all the way up to mid-level gaming, and all the way in the other corner of light to moderate photo and video editing, these 4-5 year old CPUs are still enough for most people today, where as every generation of CPU before it hit a wall ~3 years in, so most people upgraded their PC every 3-5 years.
The way things stay cheap is if there is a huge demand for parts, and said parts can be made cheaper in larger mass. What we are looking at right now is the 'life extension' of the desktop, not the death of the form factor. But if a 5 year old machine can do everything that most people want to do (and likely will continue to be enough for the next ~3 years), and if current machines are easily 3x more powerful, then how long will current gen hardware hang around on the market? 12 years? 15 years? with only minor repairs for things that wear out like HDDs and power supplies (even cheap computers have solid caps, so even crap mobos last a long time)? If PCs begin to last so long, then we will begin to see a dramatic drop in PC sales, which means less production, which means more expensive parts, which then leads to even less sales.
My fear is that with the rise of the tablet and smartphone, that people who just purchased, or will soon purchase a computer, will never replace it. In 10 years these smaller form factor technologies will simply be enough, so the ATX form factor will be relegated to extreme game systems, high end workstations, and home servers, and all 3 markets combined is a very small fraction of today's PC market. With so little incentive for parts makers to continue making parts, the parts will have much higher price tags, and become much harder to come by, and that will be the death of the PC. I do not think the threat is imminent like some do, but I do think we will see it at some point in the next 5-10 years.
I think you are (unfortunately) wrong on the console end of things too. Yes, the PC will have a clearly better experience, but in reality, people buy things based to thresholds of experience based on their medium of choice rather than purchasing for bragging rights or to have 'the best' experience possible. Current consoles suck, not because they are not upgrade-able like a PC, but because console makers had no idea that 1080p would catch on like it did, and they are only designed for moderate 720p gaming. This next gen of consoles will be able to play high end 1080p games at 30fps very well. While the PC will offer faster load times (or no load times), better mods, and higher resolution/fps screens, the average joe will not care because they want to see their game on the big 55" high contrast TV, not the relatively small but higher quality 20-28" monitor. And for that 1080p 30fps environment they will choose the game console every time. The difference this time is that the console will be adequate for the medium, where the last gen frankly was not up to the task. The only real hope for the PC game rigs is for 2K and 4K TVs to come down the pipe in the next few years (which may happen as soon as this Christmas), or for multi screen gaming to take off (which is unlikely).
Actually, the trend now is in de-bloating software. Everything from Windows, to Office, to even high end Adobe software runs faster now for the same tasks than they did 5 years ago, and with Win8 we are going to see an acceleration of this trend as software is going to be designed for tablets and phones as the primary medium instead of desktops.
High end Adobe suites will ever require more hardware for the new features that they come out with (like automated motion blur removal in the new Photoshop), but for simple edits in Premiere or Photoshop, it will run faster on the same hardware compared to the older revisions because they are making the code tighter, and these new engines are more intelligent about resource handling. These new softwares are not so efficient that they are 'amazingly' faster than their previous revisions, but it is a trend that people enjoy, so software makers will continue it.
I do have a fear of the death of the PC though:
I think when the C2Duo/Quad came out we finally saw the first CPU that could in fact handle 90+% of people's CPU needs. Yes, to do anything exciting it needs to be paired with an SSD and a GPU, and have fast internet access, but for everything from web browsing, all the way up to mid-level gaming, and all the way in the other corner of light to moderate photo and video editing, these 4-5 year old CPUs are still enough for most people today, where as every generation of CPU before it hit a wall ~3 years in, so most people upgraded their PC every 3-5 years.
The way things stay cheap is if there is a huge demand for parts, and said parts can be made cheaper in larger mass. What we are looking at right now is the 'life extension' of the desktop, not the death of the form factor. But if a 5 year old machine can do everything that most people want to do (and likely will continue to be enough for the next ~3 years), and if current machines are easily 3x more powerful, then how long will current gen hardware hang around on the market? 12 years? 15 years? with only minor repairs for things that wear out like HDDs and power supplies (even cheap computers have solid caps, so even crap mobos last a long time)? If PCs begin to last so long, then we will begin to see a dramatic drop in PC sales, which means less production, which means more expensive parts, which then leads to even less sales.
My fear is that with the rise of the tablet and smartphone, that people who just purchased, or will soon purchase a computer, will never replace it. In 10 years these smaller form factor technologies will simply be enough, so the ATX form factor will be relegated to extreme game systems, high end workstations, and home servers, and all 3 markets combined is a very small fraction of today's PC market. With so little incentive for parts makers to continue making parts, the parts will have much higher price tags, and become much harder to come by, and that will be the death of the PC. I do not think the threat is imminent like some do, but I do think we will see it at some point in the next 5-10 years.
I think you are (unfortunately) wrong on the console end of things too. Yes, the PC will have a clearly better experience, but in reality, people buy things based to thresholds of experience based on their medium of choice rather than purchasing for bragging rights or to have 'the best' experience possible. Current consoles suck, not because they are not upgrade-able like a PC, but because console makers had no idea that 1080p would catch on like it did, and they are only designed for moderate 720p gaming. This next gen of consoles will be able to play high end 1080p games at 30fps very well. While the PC will offer faster load times (or no load times), better mods, and higher resolution/fps screens, the average joe will not care because they want to see their game on the big 55" high contrast TV, not the relatively small but higher quality 20-28" monitor. And for that 1080p 30fps environment they will choose the game console every time. The difference this time is that the console will be adequate for the medium, where the last gen frankly was not up to the task. The only real hope for the PC game rigs is for 2K and 4K TVs to come down the pipe in the next few years (which may happen as soon as this Christmas), or for multi screen gaming to take off (which is unlikely).
PC aren't dying.
Try converting DVD movie to different format ... I bet that Your super ultra tablet or smart phone is unable to comply.
Try playing newest games in high res or try working with any advanced image editor on 4" or 10" screen ...
We don't buy new hardware every new year. Mostly we keep it as long it works properly.
Try converting DVD movie to different format ... I bet that Your super ultra tablet or smart phone is unable to comply.
Try playing newest games in high res or try working with any advanced image editor on 4" or 10" screen ...
We don't buy new hardware every new year. Mostly we keep it as long it works properly.
Here we go again. I dont know who "Gartner" is, never heard of them, but here's what's really going on:
A) Laptops, Tablets, Smartphones, 'nough said;
B) PC components; if you need a faster PC you dont need to shell out a big bag o' cash, you just buy a couple of upgrades, done ;
C) Your average curent gen PC is powerfull enough for most people, you dont need a new one, only enthusiasts and hardcore gamers buy the big guns.
D) Nowadays, most people build their own PC's, they dont buy complete PC's anymore.
The PC market is just fine, Intel si doing fine, AMD is doing fine, Nvidia is doing fine, Gigabyte, MSI, etc, they are all doing just fine. HP, Lenovo, and whatnot are hurting because they buy their stuff from the above mentioned companies and try to sell you their PC's at a premium.
A) Laptops, Tablets, Smartphones, 'nough said;
B) PC components; if you need a faster PC you dont need to shell out a big bag o' cash, you just buy a couple of upgrades, done ;
C) Your average curent gen PC is powerfull enough for most people, you dont need a new one, only enthusiasts and hardcore gamers buy the big guns.
D) Nowadays, most people build their own PC's, they dont buy complete PC's anymore.
The PC market is just fine, Intel si doing fine, AMD is doing fine, Nvidia is doing fine, Gigabyte, MSI, etc, they are all doing just fine. HP, Lenovo, and whatnot are hurting because they buy their stuff from the above mentioned companies and try to sell you their PC's at a premium.
killerclick
Distinguished
- Jan 13, 2010
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[citation][nom]Granter[/nom]I can already see now utterly clueless people going like "PC is dying guys LUL", in 2years when the new consoles are releassed and new engines that can't run smoothly on todays computers (unreal engine 4, new cry engine? maybe a super upgraded quake engine, doom4 anyone) I'm sure that the PC market will ones again be king of the hill.[/citation]
Sure, new consoles could potentially have awesome graphics, but consider that people are going crazy over games like Angry Birds and Cityville/Farmville/whatever's on Facebook this week.
Also consider that jury's still out on cloud gaming and that it's perfectly viable in places where internet connections are better and where there are no download caps.
Finally, if new, awesome consoles come out, that can also hurt PC sales.
[citation][nom]sten_gn[/nom]Try converting DVD movie to different format ... I bet that Your super ultra tablet or smart phone is unable to comply.[/citation]
No, they can just stream the movie from wherever to wherever in full HD. All my discs have been in the attic for years, who wants to watch DVDs these days with their crap resolution?
[citation][nom]tstng[/nom]I dont know who "Gartner" is, never heard of them[/citation]
Uninformed poster is uninformed.
Sure, new consoles could potentially have awesome graphics, but consider that people are going crazy over games like Angry Birds and Cityville/Farmville/whatever's on Facebook this week.
Also consider that jury's still out on cloud gaming and that it's perfectly viable in places where internet connections are better and where there are no download caps.
Finally, if new, awesome consoles come out, that can also hurt PC sales.
[citation][nom]sten_gn[/nom]Try converting DVD movie to different format ... I bet that Your super ultra tablet or smart phone is unable to comply.[/citation]
No, they can just stream the movie from wherever to wherever in full HD. All my discs have been in the attic for years, who wants to watch DVDs these days with their crap resolution?
[citation][nom]tstng[/nom]I dont know who "Gartner" is, never heard of them[/citation]
Uninformed poster is uninformed.
I don't live in the US, so you'll excuse me if I dont know every research company in the US.I was in the market for a new laptop until I realized how bad PC laptops were in terms of build and hardware. They are overpriced (not so much as a Mac) but I can't bring myself to pay a company that charges 600$+ over a standard HDD for an SSD when an equivalent SSD goes for 200$. Yes I could just buy it and install it myself, but its the principle.
[citation][nom]theconsolegamer[/nom]I love how Apple add phone and tablet figures to a PC shipment table and get away with it. No way in hell is Apple MAC's/PC's market is growing.[/citation]
Ofcorse and the fanbois spin it like never before (prime example in the article above), they have to because a single lonely mac in a bunch of twenty pc is not much to brag about ehh! (Yes Mac's have only a tiny 5% of the PC markets discounting phone and table "pc's")
Ofcorse and the fanbois spin it like never before (prime example in the article above), they have to because a single lonely mac in a bunch of twenty pc is not much to brag about ehh! (Yes Mac's have only a tiny 5% of the PC markets discounting phone and table "pc's")
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
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[citation][nom]Granter[/nom]in 2years when the new consoles are releassed and new engines that can't run smoothly on todays computers (unreal engine 4, new cry engine? maybe a super upgraded quake engine, doom4 anyone) I'm sure that the PC market will ones again be king of the hill.[/citation]
i think Any Sandy-Ivy era gaming rig with a mid range Geforce 500/600 or Radeon HD 6000/7000 and above should be enough for the next gen console games.
i think Any Sandy-Ivy era gaming rig with a mid range Geforce 500/600 or Radeon HD 6000/7000 and above should be enough for the next gen console games.
Sakkura
Illustrious
- Aug 22, 2011
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[citation][nom]tstng[/nom] D) Nowadays, most people build their own PC's, they dont buy complete PC's anymore.[/citation]
You are utterly and completely wrong about this. Heck, lots of people don't even know what components are inside a PC. So many people refer to whole computers as "CPUs". Do you really think all these average Joes have any clue how to build their own PC?
You are utterly and completely wrong about this. Heck, lots of people don't even know what components are inside a PC. So many people refer to whole computers as "CPUs". Do you really think all these average Joes have any clue how to build their own PC?
[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]i think Any Sandy-Ivy era gaming rig with a mid range Geforce 500/600 or Radeon HD 6000/7000 and above should be enough for the next gen console games.[/citation]
That is if the game makers decide it's even worth the trouble porting their game to PC.
And some games have so utterly horrendous ports that I'd prefer they hadn't bothered.
I'm just glad I can return even an opened game up to a week later and say "another shitty console port" and get my money back, and have been doing so on principle since that infestation started.
That is if the game makers decide it's even worth the trouble porting their game to PC.
And some games have so utterly horrendous ports that I'd prefer they hadn't bothered.
I'm just glad I can return even an opened game up to a week later and say "another shitty console port" and get my money back, and have been doing so on principle since that infestation started.
The reason is PC market is now nearly saturated. PC has succeed in becoming an essential component of human society. Therefore, PC will continue to bring in profit. But, no one should expect any big leap in profit anymore; you make good money with diary farms and meat factories but you can't move up much in those venues.
False_Dmitry_II
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- Aug 4, 2009
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[citation][nom]busuan[/nom]The reason is PC market is now nearly saturated. PC has succeed in becoming an essential component of human society. Therefore, PC will continue to bring in profit. But, no one should expect any big leap in profit anymore; you make good money with diary farms and meat factories but you can't move up much in those venues.[/citation]
Well, unless they succeed in creating synthetic meat. I bet that sector will move up quite a bit.
Well, unless they succeed in creating synthetic meat. I bet that sector will move up quite a bit.
K2N hater
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- Sep 15, 2009
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PCs will not die and they never will. What is changing is the form factor - computers that once had the size of a hall to take simple tasks were eventually repaced by a calculator.
The standard desktop PC is no exception. While people are even more attached to computers technology keeps improving and it would be only a matter of time until the size of a PC becomes too large for the shrinking internals.
Also even 5-year old hardware is capable enough to run everything the typical user needs such as web browsing, multimedia and productivity software. Consequently the industry focused mainly on shrinking and integrating features to have cheaper and more effective solutions instead of focusing more powerful parts according to the estabilished PC factor.
So what makes Gartner wrong is their definition of a PC. While some are to argue tablets are not PCs it's turning to be a complex definition over time. Smaller devices such as smartphones are catching up with PC hardware and eventually all the funcionality will be equal for the usual tasks. For instance, in the future computers will recognize our language precisely so a keyboard will not be needed for most tasks, allowing a computer small as a watch to produce a text as the user dictates. In other words, a watch is never to replace a PC as it's about to become a PC in a different form factor.
And we can see it's happening already - there are computers in cars, in televisions, in phones and
every single object is getting smart and it's only a matter of time until these "new computers" improve and catch up with the estabilished PC to the point most people will own more PCs than they do now but in a myriad of form factors.
The standard desktop PC is no exception. While people are even more attached to computers technology keeps improving and it would be only a matter of time until the size of a PC becomes too large for the shrinking internals.
Also even 5-year old hardware is capable enough to run everything the typical user needs such as web browsing, multimedia and productivity software. Consequently the industry focused mainly on shrinking and integrating features to have cheaper and more effective solutions instead of focusing more powerful parts according to the estabilished PC factor.
So what makes Gartner wrong is their definition of a PC. While some are to argue tablets are not PCs it's turning to be a complex definition over time. Smaller devices such as smartphones are catching up with PC hardware and eventually all the funcionality will be equal for the usual tasks. For instance, in the future computers will recognize our language precisely so a keyboard will not be needed for most tasks, allowing a computer small as a watch to produce a text as the user dictates. In other words, a watch is never to replace a PC as it's about to become a PC in a different form factor.
And we can see it's happening already - there are computers in cars, in televisions, in phones and
every single object is getting smart and it's only a matter of time until these "new computers" improve and catch up with the estabilished PC to the point most people will own more PCs than they do now but in a myriad of form factors.
CaedenV
Splendid
- Jun 14, 2011
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[citation][nom]K2N hater[/nom]it would be only a matter of time until the size of a PC becomes too large for the shrinking internals.[/citation]
LOL, no kidding. I worked on an HP the other day that was a standard mid tower ATX, and inside all that it had was an ITX mobo, CD/DVD drive, and small laptop HDD. Even the power supply was external. I got a huge laugh out of it. The thing ran perfectly fine (for a $300 PC anyways), but it was just so much wasted space, while offering 0 in upgradeability (one Ram dimm, 2SATA ports which where both used, no headers, and no PCIe expansion slots).
It was just a laptop inside a computer case.
LOL, no kidding. I worked on an HP the other day that was a standard mid tower ATX, and inside all that it had was an ITX mobo, CD/DVD drive, and small laptop HDD. Even the power supply was external. I got a huge laugh out of it. The thing ran perfectly fine (for a $300 PC anyways), but it was just so much wasted space, while offering 0 in upgradeability (one Ram dimm, 2SATA ports which where both used, no headers, and no PCIe expansion slots).
It was just a laptop inside a computer case.
CaedenV
Splendid
- Jun 14, 2011
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[citation][nom]K2N hater[/nom]So what makes Gartner wrong is their definition of a PC. While some are to argue tablets are not PCs it's turning to be a complex definition over time. Smaller devices such as smartphones are catching up with PC hardware and eventually all the funcionality will be equal for the usual tasks.[/citation]
This is where I disagree with you. A PC is a specific form of a computer. Yes, computers are everywhere, but there is a very narrow field of what can be considered a 'personal computer'.
For example, Apples are NOT personal computers. When you buy a mac, Apple has a lot of say on what you can and cannot do to that machine, and they take every opportunity to lock the thing down as much as possible sot that people cannot tinker with it (easily). They are nice computers, stunning to behold, and simple to use (too simple for my taste, but whatever). But to install Windows or Linux on it as a single install is frankly not allowed, and Apple reserves the rights to sue anyone who does (though even Apple is not that sue-happy). It is a package deal, where you can only realistically change out the Ram and the HDD (even fans are a pain in the butt to replace).
Same goes for Tablets and most laptops. These are pre-configured machines which you reserve the rights to use, but not the rights or ability to make major changes to. In one way or another they are simply tied to the manufacturer. Still personal in that you can conduct your own personal business on them, but not personal in the traditional sense of the word where you can customize it to your heart's content. Hell, most win8 devices will not even allow you to install another OS on them (unless it is win9) so that really makes it an unpersonal machine... but still a computer... and I think I still want one.
This is where I disagree with you. A PC is a specific form of a computer. Yes, computers are everywhere, but there is a very narrow field of what can be considered a 'personal computer'.
For example, Apples are NOT personal computers. When you buy a mac, Apple has a lot of say on what you can and cannot do to that machine, and they take every opportunity to lock the thing down as much as possible sot that people cannot tinker with it (easily). They are nice computers, stunning to behold, and simple to use (too simple for my taste, but whatever). But to install Windows or Linux on it as a single install is frankly not allowed, and Apple reserves the rights to sue anyone who does (though even Apple is not that sue-happy). It is a package deal, where you can only realistically change out the Ram and the HDD (even fans are a pain in the butt to replace).
Same goes for Tablets and most laptops. These are pre-configured machines which you reserve the rights to use, but not the rights or ability to make major changes to. In one way or another they are simply tied to the manufacturer. Still personal in that you can conduct your own personal business on them, but not personal in the traditional sense of the word where you can customize it to your heart's content. Hell, most win8 devices will not even allow you to install another OS on them (unless it is win9) so that really makes it an unpersonal machine... but still a computer... and I think I still want one.
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