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235W power supply - maximum loading?

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November 21, 2004 8:33:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.

After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
following existing components;

1x 56k modem
1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
1x CDRW
1x DVD-ROM
1x 5400rpm HDD
1x 7200rpm HDD

Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
I need to consider dropping a few items?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 21, 2004 8:33:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"#" <911@numbers.for.you> wrote in message
news:9k29uj45lhki.rqkfcpat06fo.dlg@40tude.net...
| Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
|
| After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
| following existing components;
|
| 1x 56k modem
| 1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
| 1x CDRW
| 1x DVD-ROM
| 1x 5400rpm HDD
| 1x 7200rpm HDD
|
| Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
| I need to consider dropping a few items?

Consider getting a new, quality PSU of at least 300w, as 235w on today's
hardware is marginal at best. Run this test:

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

I don't know how valid it is, but it might give you an idea of about where
you stand.
Then go buy an Antec Truepower or other high-quality PSU that'll fit your
present needs plus more to grow on.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 21, 2004 8:33:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you>
wrote:

>Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
>After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
>following existing components;
>
>1x 56k modem
>1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
>1x CDRW
>1x DVD-ROM
>1x 5400rpm HDD
>1x 7200rpm HDD
>
>Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
>I need to consider dropping a few items?

Your proposed upgrade will significantly change the amperage
distribution, shifting to more 12V amps. Typically an old
235W PSU will not have sufficient 12V capacity but a newer
one, spec'd to ATX2.03 (has the P4, 4-pin 12V connector)
DOES have higher capacity and would be sufficient for those
parts, providing the power supply is accurately rated which
is much more likely if it's manufacturer's name-brand.

The new motherboard would need the 4-pin connector whether
it be a feature of a power supply or from an adapter bought
separately.
Related resources
November 21, 2004 8:33:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:

>Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.

WHY ? you will NOT get any noticeable boost in performance in every
days normal work (maybe 35% if is a northwood based or 50% if is a
PrescHOT based one) but you will spend much money for a louder &
hotter setup with a small (feel of) practical increase in performance.

If your current one is a Tualatin (I doubt it), if the PSU is a
quality one & PC133 ram, try to OC it a bit till it goes .. or

Get instead more Ram & faster/bigger HD.
--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 21, 2004 8:33:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

# <911@numbers.for.you> wrote in message news:<9k29uj45lhki.rqkfcpat06fo.dlg@40tude.net>...

> Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
> After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
> following existing components;
>
> 1x 56k modem
> 1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
> 1x CDRW
> 1x DVD-ROM
> 1x 5400rpm HDD
> 1x 7200rpm HDD

> the motherboard in question is an end-of-line transitional
> (ASRock) which just uses the 20pin, so the existing pre-P4
> ATX PSU will be usable.

>It would appear that it is fact a 250W PSU

> +3.3V 16A
> +5V 25A
> +12V 9A
> +5VSB 2A
> -5V 0.5A
> -12V 0.8A
>
> This would indicate a theoretical design maximum of ~108W on
> the 12V line. Would this be correct?

The best power needs estimator is probably at
http://takaman.jp/D/?english , and unlike others it gives not only the
total watts (and doesn't seem to overstate them nearly as much as some
estimators do) but also the amps per voltage, although I've found that
its +3.3V estimates can be way too low, usually by a factor of three.

Because your mobo uses only a 20-pin connector, almost all the power
will come from the +3.3V and +5.0V, and the combined power from these
could be as much as 180W, but most 250W PSUs are rated for only
125-150W combined power.

What brand is your PSU? Some are a lot worse than others. For
example, I had a 250W PSU (PC Power & Cooling used the 300W version it
as an example of a bad PSU -
www.pcpowercooling.com/products/power_supplies/insidest...)
that it couldn't run a 1.3 GHz Duron with only a low-power graphics
card for more than 30 seconds at a time.
November 22, 2004 12:22:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 20 Nov 2004 23:20:20 -0600, Bob Davis wrote:

> "#" <911@numbers.for.you> wrote in message
> news:9k29uj45lhki.rqkfcpat06fo.dlg@40tude.net...

>| Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
>| I need to consider dropping a few items?
>
> Consider getting a new, quality PSU of at least 300w, as 235w on today's
> hardware is marginal at best. Run this test:
>
> http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/
>
> I don't know how valid it is, but it might give you an idea of about where
> you stand.
> Then go buy an Antec Truepower or other high-quality PSU that'll fit your
> present needs plus more to grow on.

Thanks for that.

My main concern was the effect of the change to the Northwood 478, so it
looks like I'll need to drop one each of the optical and hard drives (not a
biggie, but would have been preferable) to maintain most of the existing
configuration and components.

This is designed a minimum cost interim upgrade, intended to see it through
for another 2 years or so, before spec-building an all new system.

300/350W would definitely be the minimum spec that I would be looking at in
normal circumstances ie a new system.
November 22, 2004 1:15:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:03:51 GMT, kony wrote:

> Your proposed upgrade will significantly change the amperage
> distribution, shifting to more 12V amps. Typically an old
> 235W PSU will not have sufficient 12V capacity but a newer
> one, spec'd to ATX2.03 (has the P4, 4-pin 12V connector)
> DOES have higher capacity and would be sufficient for those
> parts, providing the power supply is accurately rated which
> is much more likely if it's manufacturer's name-brand.

Some useful information here.

> The new motherboard would need the 4-pin connector whether
> it be a feature of a power supply or from an adapter bought
> separately.

Fortunately the motherboard in question is an end-of-line transitional
(ASRock) which just uses the 20pin, so the existing pre-P4 ATX PSU will be
usable.

At this stage, it looks like I'll be leaving the 5400rpm and the DVD
unplugged...
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 22, 2004 1:37:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I would recommend putting in a larger power supply.

--
DaveW



"#" <911@numbers.for.you> wrote in message
news:9k29uj45lhki.rqkfcpat06fo.dlg@40tude.net...
> Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
> After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
> following existing components;
>
> 1x 56k modem
> 1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
> 1x CDRW
> 1x DVD-ROM
> 1x 5400rpm HDD
> 1x 7200rpm HDD
>
> Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
> I need to consider dropping a few items?
November 22, 2004 2:22:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:03:51 GMT, kony wrote:

> Your proposed upgrade will significantly change the amperage
> distribution, shifting to more 12V amps. Typically an old
> 235W PSU will not have sufficient 12V capacity but a newer
> one, spec'd to ATX2.03 (has the P4, 4-pin 12V connector)
> DOES have higher capacity and would be sufficient for those
> parts, providing the power supply is accurately rated which
> is much more likely if it's manufacturer's name-brand.

Your reply prompted me to have a closer look at the specs of the PSU.

It would appear that it is fact a 250W PSU (most units I have come across
like this tend to be 235), with the following voltage profile:

+3.3V 16A
+5V 25A
+12V 9A
+5VSB 2A
-5V 0.5A
-12V 0.8A

This would indicate a theoretical design maximum of ~108W on the 12V line.
Would this be correct?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 22, 2004 2:22:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:22:49 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you>
wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 06:03:51 GMT, kony wrote:
>
>> Your proposed upgrade will significantly change the amperage
>> distribution, shifting to more 12V amps. Typically an old
>> 235W PSU will not have sufficient 12V capacity but a newer
>> one, spec'd to ATX2.03 (has the P4, 4-pin 12V connector)
>> DOES have higher capacity and would be sufficient for those
>> parts, providing the power supply is accurately rated which
>> is much more likely if it's manufacturer's name-brand.
>
>Your reply prompted me to have a closer look at the specs of the PSU.
>
>It would appear that it is fact a 250W PSU (most units I have come across
>like this tend to be 235), with the following voltage profile:
>
>+3.3V 16A
>+5V 25A
>+12V 9A
>+5VSB 2A
>-5V 0.5A
>-12V 0.8A
>
>This would indicate a theoretical design maximum of ~108W on the 12V line.
>Would this be correct?

Theoretically, yes, except for the aforementioned isssue of
ratings-accuracy,generics are often not worth their labeled
amperage, wattage... in practice, you can only try it and
see. Taking voltage readings would be a good idea. The
optical drive is not much of a load, neither is hard drive
except when spinning up, you "might" be fine with current
PSU though an aging PSU might be less viable simply due to
age.

If the board does not use 4-pin connector, does not power
CPU VRM via 12V rail then the above PSU specs are sufficient
for powering the described system. I've not seen many
boards that power Celeron/P4 with the 4 pin connector
though, make sure it doesn't have one.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 22, 2004 2:35:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:50:04 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>... I've not seen many
>boards that power Celeron/P4 with the 4 pin connector
>though, ...

Should've read:

I've not seen many boards that power Celeron/P4 withOUT the
4 pin connector though,
November 22, 2004 3:11:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:30:05 +0100, Spajky wrote:

> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:
>
>>Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
> WHY ? you will NOT get any noticeable boost in performance in every
> days normal work (maybe 35% if is a northwood based or 50% if is a
> PrescHOT based one) but you will spend much money for a louder &
> hotter setup with a small (feel of) practical increase in performance.
>
> If your current one is a Tualatin (I doubt it), if the PSU is a
> quality one & PC133 ram, try to OC it a bit till it goes .. or
>
> Get instead more Ram & faster/bigger HD.

Well there are a number of reasons, but I will detail a few aspects here.

Recently carried out a system rebuild delivering a PC133 based 2.4Ghz
Celeron, and found it performs very well without any real noise issues
(perhaps more applicable to high frequency Prescott systems).

Have been considering an upgrade to my system for some time, but are not
prepared to fork out for a full new system at this point in time - I would
prefer a few of the newer technologies to mature and reach the "price
zone", before making any commitments.

Current setup has onboard graphics (8MB - no longer WHQL) with no AGP slot,
and I have a budget AGP card lying around that could be used with a new
motherboard (PCI graphics don't deliver at reasonable cost).

Total upgrade component cost less than $US150 equivalent, to provide an
interim transitional system for the next few years.

You are correct regarding the processor - it is one of the pre-Tualatin
chips. Also, the system will be running a decent size 7200rpm HDD, and RAM
(PC133) is currently plenty for W2K (and associated programs).
November 22, 2004 3:11:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 00:11:19 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 11:30:05 +0100, Spajky wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:
>>
>>>Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
>Well there are a number of reasons, but I will detail a few aspects here.

>Total upgrade component cost less than $US150 equivalent, to provide an
>interim transitional system for the next few years.

> Also, the system will be running a decent size 7200rpm HDD, and RAM
>(PC133) is currently plenty for W2K (and associated programs).

if you are on tight budget, think about getting used Asus TUSL-2c MoBo
& a 1.1A Tualatin (try eBay?) & OC it to 133 Fsb (will be as fast or
even faster) than Celly 2,6GHz ...
for this if quality one your PSU is, could handle it, but maybe
getting stronger would not be a bad idea.

The other option is to wait a bit (to february next year) for prices
drop & start collecting funds to get: (todays prices!)
- decent case & PSU ... 100$
- DFI LANParty nF3 250Gb Mobo ... 150$
- Sempron3100+ ..... 150$
- 2x 256Mb DDR3200-quality one ... 100$
& OC till it goes !!!
Will IMHO cost you at the end of january around 400$ (100$ less than
now)

if your video card is Agp8x than is no need to change it, but than
all your old setup sell it to get another 150$ for example, so you
will need only 250$ more & with new HD & CDR drive
you will need TL of 400$ to have a fast as a hell of a setup !!!
check this:
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/sempron-31...

--
Regards, SPAJKY ®
& visit my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
"Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
E-mail AntiSpam: remove ##
November 22, 2004 10:24:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

It's more than adequate:

Intel Celeron 2.6G Socket 478
ECS l4s8a2
512 MB RAM
ATI Rage 128 AGP
120 GB Hard Drive
Samsung DVD-ROM/CD-RW Combo Drive
Floppy Drive
Power Supply: TTGI TT-340SS
Power (CPU 0 - 1 %): 63 Watts; PF: .67
(CPU 100 %): 108 Watts; PF: .68



On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:

>Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
>
>After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
>following existing components;
>
>1x 56k modem
>1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
>1x CDRW
>1x DVD-ROM
>1x 5400rpm HDD
>1x 7200rpm HDD
>
>Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
>I need to consider dropping a few items?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 22, 2004 4:47:34 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

>
> On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:33:36 +1300, # <911@numbers.for.you> wrote:
>
> >Currently looking to upgrade a 1k Celeron system to a 2.6k Celeron.
> >
> >After the new MB/Processor is installed, the system would retain the
> >following existing components;
> >
> >1x 56k modem
> >1x nVidia Vanta 16 chipset AGP card
> >1x CDRW
> >1x DVD-ROM
> >1x 5400rpm HDD
> >1x 7200rpm HDD
> >
> >Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or
would
> >I need to consider dropping a few items?
>
I had a similar system except 1 DVD-RW and no CD-R toast a 200W supply,
assuming you have a sound card. I was lucky the PS can take other things
with it.
Good Luck
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 23, 2004 10:44:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
> I need to consider dropping a few items?

No chance. My old 235W was seriously underpowered for my AMD 2600+ upgrade
and crashed frequently when heavy disk access was made. It had fewer drives,
too.

Don't drop items, get a bigger PSU. You can get them without the case if you
like your existing one.

Christian.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 24, 2004 1:12:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:44:58 GMT, "Christian McArdle"
<cmcardle75@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:

>> Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or would
>> I need to consider dropping a few items?
>
>No chance. My old 235W was seriously underpowered for my AMD 2600+ upgrade
>and crashed frequently when heavy disk access was made. It had fewer drives,
>too.
>
>Don't drop items, get a bigger PSU. You can get them without the case if you
>like your existing one.
>
>Christian.
>

Well there definitely IS a chance, SFF systems power similar
with 180-200W PSU.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b ) Power supply
November 24, 2004 5:39:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:5dd7q0pcm0dsaa2rr2isuaj6a7hov8d3u4@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 19:44:58 GMT, "Christian McArdle"
> <cmcardle75@nospam.yahooxxxx.co.uk> wrote:
>
> >> Will the existing 235 watt PSU be sufficient to power the system, or
would
> >> I need to consider dropping a few items?
> >
> >No chance. My old 235W was seriously underpowered for my AMD 2600+
upgrade
> >and crashed frequently when heavy disk access was made. It had fewer
drives,
> >too.
> >
> >Don't drop items, get a bigger PSU. You can get them without the case if
you
> >like your existing one.
> >
> >Christian.
> >
>
> Well there definitely IS a chance, SFF systems power similar
> with 180-200W PSU.

I had a 195W supply(for a P4) in a MATX case. The system started with P4
2.4GHZ, AIW 128Pro, Audigy2, 1HD, and a floppy. Used a USB2 CD burner. Then
I replaced the floppy with another HD. OK so far. Then I put in an internal
DVD burner. Lasted about a week. The supply was marginal at best for a P4
system. Still had 2 empty PCI slots.

Yes it might work but he's on the edge. If it goes it might take other
components with it. It could lead to losing data on the drives. He won't be
able to use the computer till he gets another PS. His call. When I had to
replace the PS in the MATX case I couldn't find a bigger supply to fit it so
had to buy a bigger case. It came with a 250W supply which was still just
enough. I learned my lesson so when I replaced the old AIW with a AIW9600
and HDTV Wonder the computer also got a 350W supply. Still have the 250 for
a less hungry system. YMMV
!