Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?

Franklin

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If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?

Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
is?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
 
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Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
> is?
>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

A wire will work fairly well especially if you sweat a lot. The idea
of the wide bank is that is makes contact with a lot of skin, minimizing
the electrical resistance. Practically speaking, just about anything
will work.
 
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Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
> is?
>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

No. A strap provides a high impedance path to ground, not a dead
short. I believe some inductance is involved as well.
 
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Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple
> wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)

I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
your hand down and out of your ankle.

I try to keep my arms contacting the case, that or at least
contacting the case immediately before doing something. That is
easier now I have a case with smooth edges.

> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case of the PC
> I am working on?

I am sure it would go to the case.

> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here)
> really is?

One has to figure that, except maybe for the shape and maybe being
a noncorrosive material.

Humidity also helps dissipate static electricity. I take note
whenever the air is dry.

Good luck.





>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
>
 
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In article <Xns965F47FEFDCB9wisdomfolly@207.115.63.158>,
John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid> wrote:
>Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple
>> wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)


A copper wire is a safety hazard. Put a megohm resister is series to
limit current if the wire should hit a live wire. (You should be
working on an unplugged system, anyway, but safe practices are good,
as a habit).

--
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Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
 
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"John Doe" wrote:
>
> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
> your hand down and out of your ankle.

Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
away still attached.

Jon
 
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"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net...
> "John Doe" wrote:
>>
>> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
>> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
>> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
>> your hand down and out of your ankle.
>
> Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
> away still attached.
>
> Jon
>


You guys worry too much.

As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.

Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
significant static charge, etc.

I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
for several decades.

Ed Cregger
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin
<no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:

>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>is?
>
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

yes that would work if the case remains grounded. If it
doesn't, simply being at same potential as the case doesn't
necessarily save a part if you and the case are still at a
higher potential than ground... once you take parts out you
can still have a charge flow though the part to a (closer to
earth) contact with something.
 

Stephen

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> had
a flock of green cheek conures squawk out:

>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>is?
>
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

No, an antistatic wrist strap also has a resister in it to prevent you
from electrocuting yourself if you touch a high voltage wire.

Stephen


--
 
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On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400 If I have seen farther it is
because I have stood on the shoulder of giants "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote :

>
>"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net...
>> "John Doe" wrote:
>>>
>>> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
>>> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
>>> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
>>> your hand down and out of your ankle.
>>
>> Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
>> away still attached.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>
>
>You guys worry too much.
>
>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>
>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>significant static charge, etc.
>
>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
>for several decades.
>
>Ed Cregger
>
>
>
>

Ditto :)



--
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http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
 

fisher

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:


>You guys worry too much.
>
>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>
>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>significant static charge, etc.
>
>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
>for several decades.
>
>Ed Cregger

Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with wrist
straps when working on PC's. And to properly ground yourself anyway
you get one of those straps that plug into the ground socket in an
electrical receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.
 
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> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?

Why not just wear a tinfoil hat? Less restrictive of your movements.
 
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i unplug the unit from power,
and just touch the case before
grabbing anything else.

never had a problem.
 
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"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:490591pis9l95jhsoqe7tha12pbv4l4qs7@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
> <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You guys worry too much.
>>
>>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>>
>>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>>significant static charge, etc.
>>
>>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at
>>it
>>for several decades.
>>
>>Ed Cregger
>
> Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with wrist
> straps when working on PC's. And to properly ground yourself anyway
> you get one of those straps that plug into the ground socket in an
> electrical receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.
>


The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
ground is irrelevant.

Ed Cregger
 

fisher

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:32 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:


>The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
>unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
>ground is irrelevant.
>
>Ed Cregger
>

Look, I've already researched this a few years back and the best
grounding straps are the ones that actually plug into ground. Earth
ground is very relevant but not really necessary for just working on a
PC. You could leave the PC plugged in in the off position and then
attach your anti-static strap to the case and you will be grounded but
they do make straps that plug into ground. LOOK IT UP!
 

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On Mon, 23 May 2005 14:04:14 GMT, Stephen
<stephen2002{NOSPAM}@lurker.homeip.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> had
>a flock of green cheek conures squawk out:
>
>>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>>
>>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>>is?
>>
>>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
>
>No, an antistatic wrist strap also has a resister in it to prevent you
>from electrocuting yourself if you touch a high voltage wire.
>
>Stephen


Yeah, but if you're just working on a grounded case with no power, the
chances of you zapping yourself to death are pretty small ;)

Plug your computer into one of those cheap switched extension strips
and turn off the power. Case grounded, zero juice.

Verify case ground with your ohmmeter.
 
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Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:
> "Ed Cregger" <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You guys worry too much. As long as you ground yourself and your
>>components to the same potential, via the computer chassis,
>>there isn't anything to worry about. Of course, you shouldn't be
>>rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have grounded yourself,
>>you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>>significant static charge, etc. I haven't blown a component from
>>static discharge yet, and I have been at it for several decades.

> Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with
> wrist straps when working on PC's.

Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.

> And to properly ground yourself anyway you get one of those
> straps that plug into the ground socket in an electrical
> receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.

Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
that is a fundamental misunderstanding. You probably would connect
yourself to the PC case so that there is little potential
difference between you and the components in your system. The case
would absorb and disperse generated electricity. That is why
manufacturers recommend wearing an anti-static wrist strap or
touching the case, while you are manipulating components.

Noticeable static electricity discharge helps remind me to be
careful when working with components. If you want to do a test,
try it when the air is dry and you can easily generate static
electricity. Work up a real good charge and then touch a surface
mount device, one of chips on your video card, one of the black
flat things that has lots of tiny little metal pins sticking out
of it. Touch those little pins and make sure it pops just like
usual static electricity discharge. Let us know if it destroys
your video card. Thanks in advance.



>
>
>
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> From: Fisher <fisher no_email.here>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:21:57 -0700
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On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
wrote:


>Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.

Go to any computer tech shop and tell me how many people you see
wearing anti-static wrist straps. Get back to me when you have
finished counting.

>Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
>that is a fundamental misunderstanding.

That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
Your PC case is not ground. They sell wrist straps that attach to
electrical ground receptors for a reason. Look it up and get back to
me. Ideally you would ground both your PC case and yourself if you
want to get anal about it.
 
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"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:09c59158pg3dik0ak2i2tsrj798dft3v7b@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.
>
> Go to any computer tech shop and tell me how many people you see
> wearing anti-static wrist straps. Get back to me when you have
> finished counting.
>
>>Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
>>that is a fundamental misunderstanding.
>
> That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
> Your PC case is not ground. They sell wrist straps that attach to
> electrical ground receptors for a reason. Look it up and get back to
> me. Ideally you would ground both your PC case and yourself if you
> want to get anal about it.


As long as everything is at the same potential, there will be no damaging
current flow.

I don't like hooking myself up to Earth ground. That's not very bright,
especially if there are storms in the area, or there are other instruments
in the vicinity that may not be at perfect Earth ground. Which almost never
happens in real life.

Ed Cregger
 
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Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
> of the PC I am working on?

As everybody else has told you, no.

The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
 
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~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
> i unplug the unit from power,
> and just touch the case before
> grabbing anything else.
>
> never had a problem.

It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :) ) which could
potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)
 
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In article <VjBke.19355$sE4.1696@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:
>~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
>> i unplug the unit from power,
>> and just touch the case before
>> grabbing anything else.
>>
>> never had a problem.
>
>It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
>unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
>still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
>equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :) ) which could
>potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.
>
>--

There is live voltage on the mobo whenever a modern PC is plugged into
the wall. A dropped tool could short something out.



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
 
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"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:iid591559fogti8grimjq59eqrag86u4it@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:32 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
> <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
>>unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
>>ground is irrelevant.
>>
>>Ed Cregger
>>
>
> Look, I've already researched this a few years back and the best
> grounding straps are the ones that actually plug into ground. Earth
> ground is very relevant but not really necessary for just working on a
> PC. You could leave the PC plugged in in the off position and then
> attach your anti-static strap to the case and you will be grounded but
> they do make straps that plug into ground. LOOK IT UP!



We're just talking here, amongst friends, hopefully. I'm not in a pissing
contest with anyone, including you.

I agree that a perfect Earth ground, which normally doesn't exist in the
real world, would be the theoretically perfect way to do things. But in
reality, it isn't really necessary, nor is it easy to obtain.

As far as looking it up goes, I've been an ET for over forty years. I've
probably looked it up a few times already.

Ed Cregger
 
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In article <1116944820.623530.70200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>Franklin wrote:
>
>> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
>> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
>> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
>> of the PC I am working on?
>
>As everybody else has told you, no.
>
>The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
>entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
>or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
>everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
>protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
>elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
>surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
>material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
>flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
>


Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.

I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
looking over my shoulder.

Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.

(And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
strapped to a body part is an idiot. )

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
 

jad

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"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:d6vedv$kkp$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <1116944820.623530.70200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >Franklin wrote:
> >
> >> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
> >> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
> >> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
> >> of the PC I am working on?
> >
> >As everybody else has told you, no.
> >
> >The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
> >entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
> >or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
> >everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
> >protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
> >elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
> >surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
> >material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
> >flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
> >
>
>
> Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
> charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
> will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.
>
> I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
> handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
> at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
> looking over my shoulder.
>
> Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
> and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.
>
> (And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
> strapped to a body part is an idiot. )
>


Yeah, just the thought of that wire wrapped around my wrist and no way for
my buds to get it off quickly, while I flop round the floor like a fish out
of water, sorta scarey.

The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model computers
out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my granddaughter
hand in the airport.

> --
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.