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Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?

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May 23, 2005 4:47:38 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?

Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
is?

http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:39 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
> is?
>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

A wire will work fairly well especially if you sweat a lot. The idea
of the wide bank is that is makes contact with a lot of skin, minimizing
the electrical resistance. Practically speaking, just about anything
will work.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:39 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
> is?
>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

No. A strap provides a high impedance path to ground, not a dead
short. I believe some inductance is involved as well.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple
> wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)

I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
your hand down and out of your ankle.

I try to keep my arms contacting the case, that or at least
contacting the case immediately before doing something. That is
easier now I have a case with smooth edges.

> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case of the PC
> I am working on?

I am sure it would go to the case.

> Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here)
> really is?

One has to figure that, except maybe for the shape and maybe being
a noncorrosive material.

Humidity also helps dissipate static electricity. I take note
whenever the air is dry.

Good luck.





>
> http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <Xns965F47FEFDCB9wisdomfolly@207.115.63.158>,
John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid> wrote:
>Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:
>
>> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple
>> wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)


A copper wire is a safety hazard. Put a megohm resister is series to
limit current if the wire should hit a live wire. (You should be
working on an unplugged system, anyway, but safe practices are good,
as a habit).

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John Doe" wrote:
>
> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
> your hand down and out of your ankle.

Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
away still attached.

Jon
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 4:47:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net...
> "John Doe" wrote:
>>
>> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
>> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
>> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
>> your hand down and out of your ankle.
>
> Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
> away still attached.
>
> Jon
>


You guys worry too much.

As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.

Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
significant static charge, etc.

I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
for several decades.

Ed Cregger
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 5:18:43 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin
<no_thanks@mail.com> wrote:

>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>is?
>
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

yes that would work if the case remains grounded. If it
doesn't, simply being at same potential as the case doesn't
necessarily save a part if you and the case are still at a
higher potential than ground... once you take parts out you
can still have a charge flow though the part to a (closer to
earth) contact with something.
May 23, 2005 6:04:14 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> had
a flock of green cheek conures squawk out:

>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>
>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>is?
>
>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg

No, an antistatic wrist strap also has a resister in it to prevent you
from electrocuting yourself if you touch a high voltage wire.

Stephen


--
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 8:27:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400 If I have seen farther it is
because I have stood on the shoulder of giants "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote :

>
>"Jon Danniken" <jonREMOVETHISdanniken@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net...
>> "John Doe" wrote:
>>>
>>> I am reasonably sure that your ankle will not do nearly as well as
>>> a wrist strap. I think it has something to do with your body's
>>> capacitance. Static electricity probably will not just flow from
>>> your hand down and out of your ankle.
>>
>> Not to mention the likelihood of trying to getting tripped up when walking
>> away still attached.
>>
>> Jon
>>
>
>
>You guys worry too much.
>
>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>
>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>significant static charge, etc.
>
>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
>for several decades.
>
>Ed Cregger
>
>
>
>

Ditto :) 



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
May 23, 2005 10:21:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:


>You guys worry too much.
>
>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>
>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>significant static charge, etc.
>
>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at it
>for several decades.
>
>Ed Cregger

Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with wrist
straps when working on PC's. And to properly ground yourself anyway
you get one of those straps that plug into the ground socket in an
electrical receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 23, 2005 10:42:12 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?

Why not just wear a tinfoil hat? Less restrictive of your movements.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 1:49:26 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

i unplug the unit from power,
and just touch the case before
grabbing anything else.

never had a problem.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 3:35:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:490591pis9l95jhsoqe7tha12pbv4l4qs7@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 11:06:30 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
> <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You guys worry too much.
>>
>>As long as you ground yourself and your components to the same potential,
>>via the computer chassis, there isn't anything to worry about.
>>
>>Of course, you shouldn't be rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have
>>grounded yourself, you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>>significant static charge, etc.
>>
>>I haven't blown a component from static discharge yet, and I have been at
>>it
>>for several decades.
>>
>>Ed Cregger
>
> Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with wrist
> straps when working on PC's. And to properly ground yourself anyway
> you get one of those straps that plug into the ground socket in an
> electrical receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.
>


The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
ground is irrelevant.

Ed Cregger
May 24, 2005 3:35:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:32 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
<ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:


>The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
>unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
>ground is irrelevant.
>
>Ed Cregger
>

Look, I've already researched this a few years back and the best
grounding straps are the ones that actually plug into ground. Earth
ground is very relevant but not really necessary for just working on a
PC. You could leave the PC plugged in in the off position and then
attach your anti-static strap to the case and you will be grounded but
they do make straps that plug into ground. LOOK IT UP!
May 24, 2005 4:09:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 14:04:14 GMT, Stephen
<stephen2002{NOSPAM}@lurker.homeip.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 23 May 2005 12:47:38 +0100, Franklin <no_thanks@mail.com> had
>a flock of green cheek conures squawk out:
>
>>If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
>>some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
>>of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?
>>
>>Isn't that all an antistatic strap (like this one shown here) really
>>is?
>>
>>http://www.maplin.co.uk/images/Full/32142i0.jpg
>
>No, an antistatic wrist strap also has a resister in it to prevent you
>from electrocuting yourself if you touch a high voltage wire.
>
>Stephen


Yeah, but if you're just working on a grounded case with no power, the
chances of you zapping yourself to death are pretty small ;) 

Plug your computer into one of those cheap switched extension strips
and turn off the power. Case grounded, zero juice.

Verify case ground with your ohmmeter.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:45:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:
> "Ed Cregger" <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>You guys worry too much. As long as you ground yourself and your
>>components to the same potential, via the computer chassis,
>>there isn't anything to worry about. Of course, you shouldn't be
>>rubbing your feet on the carpet once you have grounded yourself,
>>you shouldn't be touching other devices that may hold a
>>significant static charge, etc. I haven't blown a component from
>>static discharge yet, and I have been at it for several decades.

> Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with
> wrist straps when working on PC's.

Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.

> And to properly ground yourself anyway you get one of those
> straps that plug into the ground socket in an electrical
> receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.

Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
that is a fundamental misunderstanding. You probably would connect
yourself to the PC case so that there is little potential
difference between you and the components in your system. The case
would absorb and disperse generated electricity. That is why
manufacturers recommend wearing an anti-static wrist strap or
touching the case, while you are manipulating components.

Noticeable static electricity discharge helps remind me to be
careful when working with components. If you want to do a test,
try it when the air is dry and you can easily generate static
electricity. Work up a real good charge and then touch a surface
mount device, one of chips on your video card, one of the black
flat things that has lots of tiny little metal pins sticking out
of it. Touch those little pins and make sure it pops just like
usual static electricity discharge. Let us know if it destroys
your video card. Thanks in advance.



>
>
>
> Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!
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> From: Fisher <fisher no_email.here>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:21:57 -0700
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May 24, 2005 5:45:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
wrote:


>Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.

Go to any computer tech shop and tell me how many people you see
wearing anti-static wrist straps. Get back to me when you have
finished counting.

>Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
>that is a fundamental misunderstanding.

That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
Your PC case is not ground. They sell wrist straps that attach to
electrical ground receptors for a reason. Look it up and get back to
me. Ideally you would ground both your PC case and yourself if you
want to get anal about it.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:45:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:09c59158pg3dik0ak2i2tsrj798dft3v7b@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
> wrote:
>
>
>>Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.
>
> Go to any computer tech shop and tell me how many people you see
> wearing anti-static wrist straps. Get back to me when you have
> finished counting.
>
>>Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
>>that is a fundamental misunderstanding.
>
> That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
> Your PC case is not ground. They sell wrist straps that attach to
> electrical ground receptors for a reason. Look it up and get back to
> me. Ideally you would ground both your PC case and yourself if you
> want to get anal about it.


As long as everything is at the same potential, there will be no damaging
current flow.

I don't like hooking myself up to Earth ground. That's not very bright,
especially if there are storms in the area, or there are other instruments
in the vicinity that may not be at perfect Earth ground. Which almost never
happens in real life.

Ed Cregger
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 11:27:00 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Franklin wrote:

> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
> of the PC I am working on?

As everybody else has told you, no.

The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 12:10:29 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
> i unplug the unit from power,
> and just touch the case before
> grabbing anything else.
>
> never had a problem.

It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :-) ) which could
potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 12:55:11 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <VjBke.19355$sE4.1696@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net>,
Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:
>~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
>> i unplug the unit from power,
>> and just touch the case before
>> grabbing anything else.
>>
>> never had a problem.
>
>It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
>unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
>still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
>equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :-) ) which could
>potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.
>
>--

There is live voltage on the mobo whenever a modern PC is plugged into
the wall. A dropped tool could short something out.



--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 1:15:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Fisher" <fisher@no_email.here> wrote in message
news:iid591559fogti8grimjq59eqrag86u4it@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 23 May 2005 23:35:32 -0400, "Ed Cregger"
> <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:
>
>
>>The idea is to prevent current flow. What the potential voltage is, is
>>unimportant as long as everything is at the same potential voltage. Earth
>>ground is irrelevant.
>>
>>Ed Cregger
>>
>
> Look, I've already researched this a few years back and the best
> grounding straps are the ones that actually plug into ground. Earth
> ground is very relevant but not really necessary for just working on a
> PC. You could leave the PC plugged in in the off position and then
> attach your anti-static strap to the case and you will be grounded but
> they do make straps that plug into ground. LOOK IT UP!



We're just talking here, amongst friends, hopefully. I'm not in a pissing
contest with anyone, including you.

I agree that a perfect Earth ground, which normally doesn't exist in the
real world, would be the theoretically perfect way to do things. But in
reality, it isn't really necessary, nor is it easy to obtain.

As far as looking it up goes, I've been an ET for over forty years. I've
probably looked it up a few times already.

Ed Cregger
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 2:41:03 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <1116944820.623530.70200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
<do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>Franklin wrote:
>
>> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
>> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
>> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
>> of the PC I am working on?
>
>As everybody else has told you, no.
>
>The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
>entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
>or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
>everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
>protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
>elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
>surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
>material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
>flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
>


Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.

I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
looking over my shoulder.

Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.

(And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
strapped to a body part is an idiot. )

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
May 24, 2005 2:41:04 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 6vedv$kkp$1@panix5.panix.com...
> In article <1116944820.623530.70200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:
> >
> >Franklin wrote:
> >
> >> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
> >> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
> >> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
> >> of the PC I am working on?
> >
> >As everybody else has told you, no.
> >
> >The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
> >entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
> >or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
> >everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
> >protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
> >elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
> >surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
> >material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
> >flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
> >
>
>
> Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
> charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
> will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.
>
> I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
> handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
> at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
> looking over my shoulder.
>
> Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
> and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.
>
> (And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
> strapped to a body part is an idiot. )
>


Yeah, just the thought of that wire wrapped around my wrist and no way for
my buds to get it off quickly, while I flop round the floor like a fish out
of water, sorta scarey.

The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model computers
out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my granddaughter
hand in the airport.

> --
> a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
>
> Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
May 24, 2005 2:41:05 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

A side note,,,,,,,,,

I stopped using anti static straps when I bought a humidifier into the work
room. A/C units DRY the air and create the environment for static build up.


"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
news:p hHke.10265$eR.1251@fe05.lga...
>
> "Al Dykes" <adykes@panix.com> wrote in message
> news:D 6vedv$kkp$1@panix5.panix.com...
> > In article <1116944820.623530.70200@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
> > <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >Franklin wrote:
> > >
> > >> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could
> > >> I simple wrap some wire around my wrist (or my ankle)
> > >> and then attach the other end of the wire to the case
> > >> of the PC I am working on?
> > >
> > >As everybody else has told you, no.
> > >
> > >The most convenient way to avoid static buildup is by covering your
> > >entire work surface with anti-static wrapping, either pink bubble wrap
> > >or pink foam wrap, and working without long sleeves. Lay out
> > >everything on this surface before working on it or removing it from its
> > >protective anti-static wrapping. By not wearing long sleeves, your
> > >elbows will frequently come in contact with the anti-static work
> > >surface and prevent damage to the chips. Don't substitute any other
> > >material, such as aluminum foil, because it can cause high current to
> > >flow or short out motherboard batteries and cause them to burst.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
> > charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
> > will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.
> >
> > I agree that damage due to static rarely happens, but when I'm
> > handling an expensive part or working on a system that _has to_ be up
> > at 8AM the next morning I don't take chances. Murphy is always
> > looking over my shoulder.
> >
> > Static discharge that is too weak to feel can still damage components
> > and the damage may not cause an immediate failure.
> >
> > (And anyone that works around electronics with a copper wire
> > strapped to a body part is an idiot. )
> >
>
>
> Yeah, just the thought of that wire wrapped around my wrist and no way for
> my buds to get it off quickly, while I flop round the floor like a fish
out
> of water, sorta scarey.
>
> The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
> round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model
computers
> out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my
granddaughter
> hand in the airport.
>
> > --
> > a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m
> >
> > Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 2:43:13 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Al Dykes wrote:

> Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
> charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
> will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.

::applause:: True, plus it imparts a pleasing aroma. :) 
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 3:29:10 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote in
news:VjBke.19355$sE4.1696@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net:

> If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
> still an earth connection bonding everything.

....and there's still standby power on the system if it's an ATX or
later motherboard system.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 3:42:35 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Kinell <w@invalid.jp> wrote in news:Xns96607EA659C8Bkxxx@
194.168.222.124:

> while switched off at the mains

Belay my previous, missed that bit.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:05:46 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> writes:
>~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:

>> i unplug the unit from power,
>> and just touch the case before
>> grabbing anything else.
>> never had a problem.

>It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
>unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
>still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
>equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :-) ) which could
>potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.

True, but from the standpoint of why one is using a grounding strap,
what you need to protect the ESD-sensitive devices is a way to assure
that everything being used is at the *same* potential. (This is the
reason that workers maintaining live high-voltage power lines will connect
the wire to their bucket: assuring that no potential difference
exists between them and the equipment they're working with.)

Note that merely touching a charge sink (such as the case) doesn't
guarantee anything about potential differences once you break that
connection. That's an advantage of using an antistatic strap: you
have both hands free while assuring that your body is at the same
potential as the sink.

And your comment "If it's plugged in (while switched off at
the mains)" has a pair of unstated assumptions:

1) The grounding ("earth") conductor is in fact working as
it should, and
2) No other device on that branch circuit is leaking energy
into the supposedly dead current-carrying conductors.

Far too many occupancies (especially older ones) weren't designed
with grounding conductors, and too many that have been retrofitted
have grounding systems that are not properly implemented. A common
example is the use of a cold water pipe as the grounding conductor.
With the rise in popularity of PVC pipes, consider the probability
that at some point in the future a plumber will replace a part of the
metallic water pipes with PVC...leaving the allegedly grounding
conductors floating, probably well above actual ground potential.

And even if one of the current-carrying conductors is grounded (note
the difference between groundING and groundED conductors) an
all-too-common problem is failure of the bonding between the grounded
conductor and the grounding point at the service panel. (Note: I'm
not very familiar with UK wiring standards or terminology.) Thus if
you have leakage from some other energy source (example: a computer and
printer fed from different mains but connected by a cable) you could have
some interesting consequences even if the mains feeding the other
device are disconnected.

Joe Morris
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:06:38 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 08:10:29 GMT, Mike Scott
<usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:

>~ Avery Anderson~ wrote:
>> i unplug the unit from power,
>> and just touch the case before
>> grabbing anything else.
>>
>> never had a problem.
>
>It's never been quite clear whether one should completely unplug the
>unit. If it's plugged in (while switched off at the mains), there's
>still an earth connection bonding everything. If you unplug, the
>equipment starts to float (voltage-wise, that is :-) ) which could
>potentially cause problems if the operator is grounded.

The system should either be turned off via a power switch
(main cutoff) on the back of the power supply which leaves
the system grounded, or unplugged from AC entirely and then
the earth-grounded user should touch a ground point on the
system first, to ensure that system ground is at similar
potential as user who is earth grounded.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:11:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

A troll giving potentially dangerous advice about a subject he
apparently knows nothing about.

Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:

> Path: newssvr19.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
> From: Fisher <fisher no_email.here>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 18:21:57 -0700
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Message-ID: <490591pis9l95jhsoqe7tha12pbv4l4qs7 4ax.com>
> References: <965F82259F72671F3M4@204.153.244.156> <Xns965F47FEFDCB9wisdomfolly@207.115.63.158> <3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net> <d6srhq0tug@enews4.newsguy.com>
> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572
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> Lines: 23
> Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:436774

....
> Yea, guys that do this for a living don't ground themselves with wrist
> straps when working on PC's. And to properly ground yourself anyway
> you get one of those straps that plug into the ground socket in an
> electrical receptor - that is grounded - not your PC case.
>
>
May 24, 2005 5:11:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 24 May 2005 13:11:29 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
wrote:

>A troll giving potentially dangerous advice about a subject he
>apparently knows nothing about.

I'm not a troll. That is seriously what I read a few years back. But
accepting that that may have been BS info I have decided to revise
that info and go with this latest info. Personally, I don't use a
wrist strap because as you can see from this article it isn't so
simple to just stick on a ten dollar Radioshack wrist strap and think
you are properly protected. I've never fried a component yet, and as I
said before, any computer store I've been into where I've seen them
working on people's PC's they are not wearing wrist straps. Not saying
they shouldn't be, but they usually don't.

http://www.esdnw.org/Newsletters/05-08-02%20Newsletter/...

The All Important Wrist Strap

By Bill Metz

Given that a worker can generate potentials of 5,000 volts (50
times higher than the level considered safe for modem electronic
components) by simply walking across the floor, a comprehensive
program to control ESD is an absolute requirement for manufacturing
quality electronic products.

The problem for most managers and engineers is determining which
ESD control products are appropriate for their particular application.
The first place to start is at the individual workstation. The best
way to remove the threat of ESD at the workstation is to discharge
conductors using grounded wrist straps, table mats and floor mats. But
it is important to prevent isolation at any point in the workstation
grounding system. One way to ensure this is by completing all
grounding to the safety ground in the facility grounding system, not
earth ground.

The general consensus is that the first element in any ESD control
program is personnel grounding. The most familiar tool, and one that
is often mistaken as sufficient protection from ESD by itself, is the
common wrist strap. Wrist straps come with a variety of bands ranging
from conductive plastic and bead chain to Velcro and conductive fiber.
The strap itself is usually comprised of multi-strand wire, but also
comes in solid conductive plastic and nylon. Most wrist straps include
a one megohm series resistor to limit current through the body in the
event of accidental contact with 120 volts AC.

The biggest problem with wrist straps is intermittent or permanent
discontinuity. Daily or more frequent testing of wrist straps is
extremely important to any ESD control program. This is why it is
recommended that wrist strap checkers be used to test for continuity,
and that the checkers be fitted with an alarm or have LED's that light
up when an open circuit or high resistance condition occurs. Many
discontinuities can be attributed to improper connection of the wrist
strap. Most experts warn that wrist straps should never be connected
through the work surface as a path to ground. Common work surfaces add
too much resistance for effective personnel grounding. The best
solution, say experts, is to use a separate, hard wired path to a
connecting socket or bus for the strap connection.

Another often-overlooked cause of discontinuity is the connection
to the wrist. The outer layer of the wrist often has a dead skin layer
that acts as an open circuit, particularly in dry climates. Body hair
can also act as an insulator. One way to avoid this problem is to use
ESD lotion. ESD or IC lotions are wetting solutions that are solely
designed to improve the electrical contact between the wrist strap and
the wearer. ESD lotions should never be used as hand cream. They lack
the key ingredients that are needed to make them a good hand cream.

Even though there are many other equally important elements in a
good ESD prevention program, the wrist strap can certainly be looked
upon as the first line of defense.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Ed Cregger" <ecregger@homtail.com> wrote:

....
> I don't like hooking myself up to Earth ground. That's not very
> bright, especially if there are storms in the area, or there are
> other instruments in the vicinity that may not be at perfect
> Earth ground.

Hooking yourself up to Earth ground is probably a good way to get
electrocuted.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 5:32:32 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:
> John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid> wrote:

>>Whoever you are talking about does not work on my PC.
>
> Go to any computer tech shop and tell me how many people you see
> wearing anti-static wrist straps. Get back to me when you have
> finished counting.

Go give the same advice in a basic electronics discussion group.

sci.electronics.basics

>>Is that what the people who work on your computer say? I think
>>that is a fundamental misunderstanding.
>
> That's what I know from researching the subject..

Please provide some citations.

> Where is ground?

Where is ground in a battery powered device?

> Your PC case is not ground.

It most certainly is.

> They sell wrist straps that attach to electrical ground
> receptors...

Where?

> Look it up and get back to me.

I have invented, designed, and built electronic devices. Most of
what I know has been learned through research. I can spot a wild
goose chase from a mile away. I am not going on your wild goose
chase.

You need to provide links to your sources.

> Ideally you would ground both your PC case and yourself if you
> want to get anal about it.

You need to get a clue about the subject.



>
>
>
>
> Path: newssvr31.news.prodigy.com!newssvr17.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm06.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newscon06.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail
> From: Fisher <fisher no_email.here>
> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
> Subject: Re: Bit of wire as good as an antistatic strap?
> Date: Mon, 23 May 2005 21:50:08 -0700
> Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com
> Message-ID: <09c59158pg3dik0ak2i2tsrj798dft3v7b 4ax.com>
> References: <965F82259F72671F3M4@204.153.244.156> <Xns965F47FEFDCB9wisdomfolly@207.115.63.158> <3fe8nbF76odqU1@individual.net> <d6srhq0tug@enews4.newsguy.com> <490591pis9l95jhsoqe7tha12pbv4l4qs7@4ax.com> <Xns965FD335140E6wisdomfolly@207.115.63.158>
> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572
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> Lines: 18
> Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:436819
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 6:03:19 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Franklin wrote:


> If I want to improvise an antistatic strap then could I simple wrap
> some wire around my wrist (or my ankle) and then attach the other end
> of the wire to the case of the PC I am working on?

A piece of copper wire (stripped of insulation, of course) wrapped around
your wrist would actually be much more effective than the anti-static
strap because the only connection point in the strap is the small button
in the very middle of the strap. The rest of the strap is, obviously
dielectric. HOWEVER, as many pointed out in this thread, there is a 1MOhm
resistor in series with the croc clip so you don't get electrocuted if you
touch a wrong part.

If you disconnect the mains power from the case you're working on (which
you should always do, anyways) you cannot ground yourself, but you can
electrically bond yourself to the case with the strap (or wire), which
prevents ESD when you're inserting a component, but it DOES NOT prevens
ESD when you pick a component up from the desk (which is assumed NOT to be
electrically bonded to the case). So, never open ESD-protective bags
BEFORE you bond yourself to the case you're working on.

Good luck and please don't fry yourself!

--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------


##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive
http://www.cabling-design.com/forums
no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup -
uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt - messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 7:09:40 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Kinell wrote:

>
> ...and there's still standby power on the system if it's an ATX or
> later motherboard system.

Press the powerbutton once more when the unit is unplugged. This way the
system will try to powerup and "drain" or "use up" the voltage left in
the PSU.

And as for toughing the case with your wrist, thats the way :) 
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 7:38:12 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:

> A side note,,,,,,,,,

> I stopped using anti static straps when I bought a humidifier into the
> work
> room. A/C units DRY the air and create the environment for static build
> up.

Another important room improvement in terms of dealing with ESD would be
to get rid of synthetic carpeting on the floor.

--
Dmitri Abaimov, RCDD
http://www.cabling-design.com
Cabling Forum, color codes, pinouts and other useful resources for
premises cabling users and pros
http://www.cabling-design.com/homecabling
Residential Cabling Guide
-------------------------------------


##-----------------------------------------------##
Article posted with Cabling-Design.com Newsgroup Archive
http://www.cabling-design.com/forums
no-spam read and post WWW interface to your favorite newsgroup -
uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt - messages and counting!
##-----------------------------------------------##
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 7:38:13 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

When installing add on cards, motherboards, whatever - my main
objective is to eliminate the difference in potential between the
case, me, and the new component I'm installing. My technique is to
start by wearing 100% cotton clothing, because it won't build up a
static charge. I connect power to the supply then disconnect it.
That will ground the case and as long as it doesn't move around will
stay at ground potential. I then take the card with it in it's
conductive metallic plastic bag (faraday cage) and place it onto the
case and open the bag. While touching the case with my arms, wrists,
etc. I remove the card and insert it into it's slot. With this
technique, I keep myself, the case, and the card at as close to the
same potential as possible.

MT
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 10:51:58 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Joe Morris wrote:
> Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> writes:
....
> And your comment "If it's plugged in (while switched off at
> the mains)" has a pair of unstated assumptions:
>
> 1) The grounding ("earth") conductor is in fact working as
> it should, and
> 2) No other device on that branch circuit is leaking energy
> into the supposedly dead current-carrying conductors.

If either of these is an issue you have worse problems than static
prevention. Earth connections *must* be working or you'll risk frying
your equipment when connecting to other kit (*). TBH I can't see how (2)
can be an issue if I've switched the equipment off at the mains.

The scenario I'm thinking of is when the antistatic wriststrap itself
plugs into the mains earth. If the equipment isn't also grounded, then
*it* could become charged and discharge through the grounded technician,
again zapping something. As has been pointed out, both must be at the
same potential (preferably 0V :-) )


(*) Have you ever been connected to the mains via the capacitance of
badly earthed, equipment? It can be, er, interesting.

--
Please use the corrected version of the address below for replies.
Replies to the header address will be junked, as will mail from
various domains listed at www.scottsonline.org.uk
Mike Scott Harlow Essex England.(unet -a-t- scottsonline.org.uk)
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 24, 2005 10:51:59 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <iJKke.4394$RG2.926@newsfe6-gui.ntli.net>,
Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> wrote:
>Joe Morris wrote:
>> Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> writes:
>...
>> And your comment "If it's plugged in (while switched off at
>> the mains)" has a pair of unstated assumptions:
>>
>> 1) The grounding ("earth") conductor is in fact working as
>> it should, and
>> 2) No other device on that branch circuit is leaking energy
>> into the supposedly dead current-carrying conductors.
>
>If either of these is an issue you have worse problems than static
>prevention. Earth connections *must* be working or you'll risk frying
>your equipment when connecting to other kit (*). TBH I can't see how (2)
>can be an issue if I've switched the equipment off at the mains.
>
>The scenario I'm thinking of is when the antistatic wriststrap itself
>plugs into the mains earth. If the equipment isn't also grounded, then
>*it* could become charged and discharge through the grounded technician,
>again zapping something. As has been pointed out, both must be at the
>same potential (preferably 0V :-) )
>

In this case I think the "something" zapped will be the technician.

Keep is simple, folks. Unplug anything you are working on. Don't
depend on some switch, esp one that's out of sight. It's too easy when
you are focused on a problem to forget that ths switch isn't off.

Connecting a ground strap to anything but the chassis you are working
on is wrong and possibly dangerous. Using a ground strap that doesn't
have a multi-megohm resister in it is asking to have a heart-stopping
experience.
--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
May 25, 2005 12:10:15 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On 24 May 2005 22:57:56 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:


>What's that glowing LED I see on recent mobos even when the front
>panel power switch is off.

That's stanby power for wake on LAN etc.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 3:07:07 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <b3r791tjtsqcvetlnb4giuhu871b2u7pu0@4ax.com>,
Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:
>On 24 May 2005 22:57:56 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>
>
>>What's that glowing LED I see on recent mobos even when the front
>>panel power switch is off.
>
>That's stanby power for wake on LAN etc.


Precisely. That means there is power on the mobo.

Unplug it before you work on it.

--
a d y k e s @ p a n i x . c o m

Don't blame me. I voted for Gore.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 3:07:08 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In message <d70q4r$2qs$1@panix5.panix.com> adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes)
wrote:

>In article <b3r791tjtsqcvetlnb4giuhu871b2u7pu0@4ax.com>,
>Fisher <fisher@no_email.here> wrote:
>>On 24 May 2005 22:57:56 -0400, adykes@panix.com (Al Dykes) wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What's that glowing LED I see on recent mobos even when the front
>>>panel power switch is off.
>>
>>That's stanby power for wake on LAN etc.
>
>
>Precisely. That means there is power on the mobo.
>
>Unplug it before you work on it.

Or hit the power switch on the power supply -- Assuming your house
building ground is wired properly, you're better off being grounded
while you're working -- But you need to make sure that the power supply
itself is turned off.

In fairness, not all power supplies have a switch, but virtually all
quality power supplies do.


--
Eat right, exercise, die anyway.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 3:15:48 AM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Al Dykes wrote:
>
>> Some places have carpet or tile that will accumulate a huge static
>> charge. Fabric softener from the supermarket sprayed on the floor
>> will control it for a couple days. It's really cheap.
>
>
> ::applause:: True, plus it imparts a pleasing aroma. :) 

You obviously do not have a very sensitive nose! Those smells are horrid.

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 9:07:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 23 May 2005 21:50:08 -0700, Fisher <fisher@no_email.here>
wrote:

>On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
>wrote:
>
>
>That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
>Your PC case is not ground.

?????????? If that's so kindly explain how the components work, and
when I check voltages why do I get readings as I always use case
ground as it's faily convienant.


They sell wrist straps that attach to
>electrical ground receptors for a reason.

They work if attached to the case as well.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 9:07:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

IDIDIT wrote:

> On Mon, 23 May 2005 21:50:08 -0700, Fisher <fisher@no_email.here>
> wrote:
>
>
>>On Tue, 24 May 2005 01:45:40 GMT, John Doe <jdoe@usenet.love.invalid>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>That's what I know from researching the subject.. Where is ground?
>>Your PC case is not ground.
>
>
> ?????????? If that's so kindly explain how the components work, and
> when I check voltages why do I get readings as I always use case
> ground as it's faily convienant.

You're mixing apples and oranges. He's referring to earth ground.

The 'components' don't need earth ground to 'work' and the reason your
measurements work using case is because it's tied to 'circuit ground'.

Now, the case is also tied to earth through the the PSU mounting screws and
from there via the earth connection in the PSU which, if everything is
proper, goes through the power cord earth wire, to the power receptacle
earth pin, and through the AC wiring earth wire to the power distribution
panel earth bus and eventually, hopefully, to something akin to 'earth'.
The case, however, is not earth.



> They sell wrist straps that attach to
>
>>electrical ground receptors for a reason.
>
>
> They work if attached to the case as well.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 4:08:17 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> writes:

>The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
>round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model computers
>out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my granddaughter
>hand in the airport.

....although some systems are more resiliant to ESD than one might expect.

Far too many years ago the group I was working with used a DEC PDP-1
system that was installed in an office that wasn't originally intended
to be used to house a computer. The office floor was carpeted -- and
this was long before "computer room carpet" was invented. During the
winter it was trivially easy to build up a charge by walking across
the room ... and even easier if you deliberately shuffled your feet.

The PDP-1 was used for legitimate purposes but a quite visible fraction
of its time was spent playing Spacewar (this was the machine on which
Spacewar was originally written). The local crew discovered that
one could really irritate Spacewar players by coming into the room,
shuffling across the floor, then using a coin draw an arc between
your body and the PDP-1 cabinet. Quarter to half-inch arcs (no,
I never actually measured them with a ruler) were easy to generate.

The amazing thing is that the *only* effect of doing this was to
set the stop latch. I don't recall ever hearing of any hardware
damage [1] or data corruption from this, and once the players had vented
their displeasure at the perpetrator all they needed to do was to
press the CONTINUE switch to resume the game where it was interrupted.

[1] ...although I suspect that both management and the DEC engineers
were none too pleased about this.

Joe Morris
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 4:08:18 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Joe Morris wrote:
> "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> writes:
>
>
>>The number one static producing machine is my wheelchair.....after running
>>round Best Buy for ten minutes, I could put all thier floor model computers
>>out of buisness. LOL Once I through an arc of 4 inches to my granddaughter
>>hand in the airport.
>
>
> ...although some systems are more resiliant to ESD than one might expect.
>
> Far too many years ago the group I was working with used a DEC PDP-1
> system that was installed in an office that wasn't originally intended
> to be used to house a computer. The office floor was carpeted -- and
> this was long before "computer room carpet" was invented. During the
> winter it was trivially easy to build up a charge by walking across
> the room ... and even easier if you deliberately shuffled your feet.
>
> The PDP-1 was used for legitimate purposes but a quite visible fraction
> of its time was spent playing Spacewar (this was the machine on which
> Spacewar was originally written).

Played on the innovative and amazing CAthode RAy tube DISplay ("convenient
means for the computer to talk to the operator" [at 20,000 points per
second]), not to mention the computer's startling capability for "100,000
additions per second (about 2.5 times the speed of most large computers in
use today)."

Been there, played it, got the T-shirt ;) 

Read all about it
http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/GBell/Digital/P...
http://www.research.microsoft.com/users/GBell/Digital/P...

The local crew discovered that
> one could really irritate Spacewar players by coming into the room,
> shuffling across the floor, then using a coin draw an arc between
> your body and the PDP-1 cabinet. Quarter to half-inch arcs (no,
> I never actually measured them with a ruler) were easy to generate.
>
> The amazing thing is that the *only* effect of doing this was to
> set the stop latch. I don't recall ever hearing of any hardware
> damage [1] or data corruption from this, and once the players had vented
> their displeasure at the perpetrator all they needed to do was to
> press the CONTINUE switch to resume the game where it was interrupted.

The PDP-1 was made of discrete transistors and bipolar at that. Modern day
MOSFET based ICs are a different matter.

>
> [1] ...although I suspect that both management and the DEC engineers
> were none too pleased about this.
>
> Joe Morris
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
May 25, 2005 4:26:28 PM

Archived from groups: uk.comp.misc,alt.comp.hardware,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Mike Scott <usenet.9@spam.stopper.scottsonline.org.uk> writes:

>Joe Morris wrote:

>> And your comment "If it's plugged in (while switched off at
>> the mains)" has a pair of unstated assumptions:
>>
>> 1) The grounding ("earth") conductor is in fact working as
>> it should, and
>> 2) No other device on that branch circuit is leaking energy
>> into the supposedly dead current-carrying conductors.

>If either of these is an issue you have worse problems than static
>prevention.

Absolutely true. Unfortunately, though, going through various USENET
newsgroups I see far too many examples of someone who has unknowingly
set up an unsafe environment while trying to "do the right thing" -- the
use of water pipes for grounding being one of the more common. And
I've seen more than my share of environments where power was backfed
from a live system into a (supposedly) dead one...or where a power
cable came out of a totally dead fusebox -- but was live because some
idiot ran it *through* the fusebox, into the next room where it was
connected to 110VAC. (Hint: a pair of diagonal cutters causes a very
impressive display of fireworks when cutting through live wires behind
a 30A breaker)


> Earth connections *must* be working or you'll risk frying
>your equipment when connecting to other kit (*). TBH I can't see how (2)
>can be an issue if I've switched the equipment off at the mains.

Consider two boxes, with a cable between them. The power to box 1 (only)
is cut off at the breaker panel, but box 2 is still live. Now
think about the consequences if the power interface in box 2 develops
leakage from the mains (assume no GFI protection) that gets fed
through the cable into either the electronics of box 1, or maybe its
chassis. If the leakage isn't enough to trip the breaker feeding
box 2 then you have all sorts of nasty possibilities sitting around,
just waiting for Murphy to pass by and direct your fingers to the
wrong place...

>(*) Have you ever been connected to the mains via the capacitance of
>badly earthed, equipment? It can be, er, interesting.

In a word, yes. I've also got some interesting scars from where a
few zillion electrons tried to make their way through the back of
my arm thanks to ... well, never mind.

Joe Morris
!