Heat problems

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, two 512meg
sticks of Mushkin PC3200 ram, Zalman CNPS 7000-A AlCu heatsink, Arctic
Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. and a ATI
Radeon 9800 Pro video card. I'm using a 400w Seasonic Super Silencer
power supply and a Silverstone LC-10 case.

I've finally got the motherboard to post (see my other message titled
Motherboard will not POST). But now I've having a problem with the CPU
temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected. Yet
the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.

I"ve taken off the heatsink, cleaned it and the CPU with Goof-Off (as
recommended by Arctic Silver) and 91% alcohol and reapplied thermal
compound 3 or 4 times and end up with the same temps. I even tried a
Seasonic Super Turnado with the 120mm fan and the temps inside the case
stayed the same. I'm going to be adding a lot of heat producing
components (more hds, more video capture cards) so I need to figure out
why the CPU temp is so high. I dont want to add more or higher powered
fans it I can help it because of the added noise.
9 answers Last reply
More about heat problems
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    Tom Mislewski Wrote:
    > I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, two 512meg
    > sticks of Mushkin PC3200 ram, Zalman CNPS 7000-A AlCu heatsink, Arctic
    > Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. and a
    > ATI
    > Radeon 9800 Pro video card. I'm using a 400w Seasonic Super Silencer
    > power supply and a Silverstone LC-10 case.
    >
    > I've finally got the motherboard to post (see my other message titled
    > Motherboard will not POST). But now I've having a problem with the CPU
    > temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    > running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the
    > open
    > air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up
    > the
    > CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
    > hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected.
    > Yet
    > the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    >
    > I"ve taken off the heatsink, cleaned it and the CPU with Goof-Off (as
    > recommended by Arctic Silver) and 91% alcohol and reapplied thermal
    > compound 3 or 4 times and end up with the same temps. I even tried a
    > Seasonic Super Turnado with the 120mm fan and the temps inside the
    > case
    > stayed the same. I'm going to be adding a lot of heat producing
    > components (more hds, more video capture cards) so I need to figure
    > out
    > why the CPU temp is so high. I dont want to add more or higher powered
    > fans it I can help it because of the added noise.

    Hi,

    Although 50C isn't a great emergency with this chip, it is way too
    high for at-rest with not much hooked up. One has to explore the
    following things:

    Heat is not as much to do with the number of fans (after the first
    two or three), but the strategic placement and direction of air flow
    within the case.

    Do check the following in this vein:

    1) Make sure you have your heatsink fan blowing DOWN and not up.

    2) Do make sure that you are not putting TOO MUCH thermal paste
    between your heatsink and CPU. (read artic silver instructions and a
    little dab will do you)

    3) Make sure you have a rear fan blowing hot air OUT of the case.

    4) Make sure you have a front intake air fan blowing cool air IN.

    5) Make sure any other fans that you have do not create a turbulance
    with the air flow listed above.

    6) Get some of the round cables (IDE) for drives to eliminate the
    blockage that can be caused by the old ribbon cables. The old ones do
    restrict air flow and block cooling from getting to components.

    7) A little trick that I learned while building computers was to take
    the little PCI strap covers on the back of the case in unused PCI slots
    and drill holes in them to allow air and heat to excape and to flow out
    the back of the case through those enclosures. Of course, if you remove
    them and put in a PCI card, then they aren't there, so you can't do
    that.

    Normal for this processor should be (in the case) between 33C to
    42C at rest and under stress with everything connected approximately
    48C to 54C. We see this every day in the process of building
    computers. I would be very concerned with any temp for any periond of
    time over 60C, although you need to know that the company says they can
    operate at temps higher without damage. I do know that heat kills, so
    proceed with caution.

    I presently (not for customers, but for personal usage) am running
    two Northwoods in two different cases and with only a front and rear
    fan in each, and they both are even below the temps that I listed above
    for you. This chip does not as a rule run hot and I am using the stock
    Heatsink and fan on both of them. Both of my computers are running
    high end graphics cards of the ATI brand and one gig of memory in each
    with two hard drives in one and three in the other (all 7500 rpm
    drives), two optical drives in each and a floppy with each having two
    extra USB drives and a camera always connected. Therefore, our items
    would be very comparable. Heat is just not a problem with this chip
    and setup.

    Hope at least one thing I have given you provides some relief.
    Good luck and let us know if we can help.


    --
    Tumbleweed36
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On 01 Jun 2005 05:01:24 +0500, "Tom Mislewski"
    <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote:

    >I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, two 512meg
    >sticks of Mushkin PC3200 ram, Zalman CNPS 7000-A AlCu heatsink, Arctic
    >Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. and a ATI
    >Radeon 9800 Pro video card. I'm using a 400w Seasonic Super Silencer
    >power supply and a Silverstone LC-10 case.
    >
    >I've finally got the motherboard to post (see my other message titled
    >Motherboard will not POST). But now I've having a problem with the CPU
    >temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    >running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    >air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    >CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
    >hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected. Yet
    >the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.

    50C is not high enough to be concerned about, it may be
    about average for an OEM box with an upper-end Northwood
    running quietly. However, the typically running,
    mostly-idle state of the CPU is not a good measure of the
    adequacy (or inadequacy) of a heatsink - you need test it by
    running at full load for an extended period of time. For
    example, Prime 95's Torture Test for > 30 minutes in the
    highest ambient (room) temps the system is likely to
    encounter.

    When you remove the heatsink, I presume you do clearly see
    the imprint of the CPU on it's base? That is one indicator
    of the contact quality, if it has squished out all but the
    needed amount of thermal compound. Some people put too much
    compound on the CPU, especially with CPUs having a heat
    spreader (which causes a lower presser contact between the
    CPU and 'sink, will not squish out as much compound as the
    older open-core flip chips (like a P3 or Athlon XP) did.

    With that in mind, you might consider wiping off the bulk of
    the thermal compound (NOT trying to remove every last
    molecule of it, just using a lint-free cloth to get most of
    it off- so it's fairly clean but not necessarily having all
    the compound removed from any pores in the heatsink base.

    Then try applying only a 1.5 grain-of-rice sized blob of
    thermal compound in the exact center of the CPU head
    spreader. After applying the heatstink that will spread
    out.

    Also note that with the modern synthetic ester based thermal
    compounds (like Arctic Silver, Alumina, Ceramique, et al) it
    may take a few days and thermal cycles (machine turning off
    and cooling down a few minutes) for the compound to reach
    maximum effectiveness. In other words, once you are
    confident the compound is applied correctly, wait a few days
    for that last ~ 4C temp drop before making final judgement-
    that is assuming the initial temp is at least low enough
    that the final expected result would be acceptible.


    >
    >I"ve taken off the heatsink, cleaned it and the CPU with Goof-Off (as
    >recommended by Arctic Silver) and 91% alcohol and reapplied thermal
    >compound 3 or 4 times and end up with the same temps. I even tried a
    >Seasonic Super Turnado with the 120mm fan and the temps inside the case
    >stayed the same.

    I don't know about your board but "system" temp reports are
    more often of a different chip on the motherboard- are not
    an indicator of case temps but rather than chip which is
    it's own source of heat.


    > I'm going to be adding a lot of heat producing
    >components (more hds, more video capture cards) so I need to figure out
    >why the CPU temp is so high. I dont want to add more or higher powered
    >fans it I can help it because of the added noise.

    A closed case with good large unobstructed areas for intake
    and exhaust (regardless of whether the particular case has
    fans for both of those roles) will help keep parts cool by
    reducing the air recirculated through the heatsink.

    Your options at this point should include assessing the case
    itself, if it allows good intake and exhast, and the same
    goes for the power supply. In particular, avoid
    mostly-obstructed stamped-in-metal fan grills, or front
    plastic bezels that have similar impedance to airflow.

    If you feel the case is ready then add the parts. If it's
    not ready you might do some cutting on it before adding the
    parts- you can always turn down ur unplug a fan later, it'd
    be easier than having to strip the system down to modify the
    case later. Then again, one popular solution is to put a
    fan in the side panel, as this allows system to remain whole
    and even running by using the removalable panel. Just be
    sure that any changes in flow would not negatively impact
    the HDD cooling.
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On 01 Jun 2005 05:01:24 +0500, "Tom Mislewski"
    <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote:

    >I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, ...
    >Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. .......

    >temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    >running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    >air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    >CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS ... Yet
    >the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.

    temps are normal from onDie sensor ...!
    --
    Regards , SPAJKY ®
    mail addr. @ my site @ http://www.spajky.vze.com
    3rd Ann.: - "Tualatin OC-ed / BX-Slot1 / inaudible setup!"
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Tom Mislewski" <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote in message
    news:100133011116917.NC-1.54.junkthis@news.calweb.com...
    > I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, two 512meg
    > sticks of Mushkin PC3200 ram, Zalman CNPS 7000-A AlCu heatsink, Arctic
    > Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. and a ATI
    > Radeon 9800 Pro video card. I'm using a 400w Seasonic Super Silencer
    > power supply and a Silverstone LC-10 case.
    >
    > I've finally got the motherboard to post (see my other message titled
    > Motherboard will not POST). But now I've having a problem with the CPU
    > temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    > running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    > air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    > CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
    > hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected. Yet
    > the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    >
    > I"ve taken off the heatsink, cleaned it and the CPU with Goof-Off (as
    > recommended by Arctic Silver) and 91% alcohol and reapplied thermal
    > compound 3 or 4 times and end up with the same temps. I even tried a
    > Seasonic Super Turnado with the 120mm fan and the temps inside the case
    > stayed the same. I'm going to be adding a lot of heat producing
    > components (more hds, more video capture cards) so I need to figure out
    > why the CPU temp is so high. I dont want to add more or higher powered
    > fans it I can help it because of the added noise.
    >
    How much space between end of video card and drive cage? Review of that
    case at http://www.ocmodshop.com/default.aspx?a=250&p=716 mentions poss, air
    flow problems. However, 50C is not that high for a P4. Quiet PSU may shift
    less air than standard PSU. Make sure you keep cables tidy. Use Round data
    cables if poss.
    Mike.
  5. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:43:03 +0100, "Michael Hawes"
    <michael.hawes1remove@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:


    > How much space between end of video card and drive cage? Review of that
    >case at http://www.ocmodshop.com/default.aspx?a=250&p=716 mentions poss, air
    >flow problems. However, 50C is not that high for a P4. Quiet PSU may shift
    >less air than standard PSU. Make sure you keep cables tidy. Use Round data
    >cables if poss.
    > Mike.
    >

    Great link!

    Yes that case has very poor airflow, though I'd be more
    concerned about the typical problems seem with similar
    desktop cases, high impedance to flow from the front intake,
    rear exhaust, and front bezel.
  6. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    "Spajky" <Spajky@##volja.net> wrote in message
    news:o0ur911cgm9ung7i9vbnedei9ggpkens1j@4ax.com...
    > On 01 Jun 2005 05:01:24 +0500, "Tom Mislewski"
    > <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote:
    >
    >>I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, ...
    >>Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. .......
    >
    >>temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    >>running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    >>air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    >>CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS ... Yet
    >>the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    >
    > temps are normal from onDie sensor ...!

    Exactly. I have been fighting with temps all week on this new Socket 775
    Intel with I-630 and finally discovered that temps are read on-die and
    10degs+ over what we are used to seeing is quite normal and expected. I just
    have a lot of problems seeing idle temps between 48 and 51c which is over
    15degs higher than I am used to seeing. Stress tests bring it up to the low
    60s, but it is stable as a rock even with a 20% overclock. It seems that
    although we see higher idle temps, the range of temperature changes from
    idle to high stress is smaller. At least, that is what I am seeing. I am
    usually pretty confident in my ability to keep a cool and quiet case, but
    with this one all I can do is keep it quiet no matter what I do ......:-)
    Ambient (case) temps are 31c. MB temp is 33-36c constant. I don't know what
    else I can do.


    Ed
  7. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 16:14:03 GMT, kony wrote:

    > On 01 Jun 2005 05:01:24 +0500, "Tom Mislewski"
    > <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, two 512meg
    > >sticks of Mushkin PC3200 ram, Zalman CNPS 7000-A AlCu heatsink, Arctic
    > >Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. and a ATI
    > >Radeon 9800 Pro video card. I'm using a 400w Seasonic Super Silencer
    > >power supply and a Silverstone LC-10 case.

    ....

    But now I've having a problem with the CPU
    > >temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    > >running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    > >air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    > >CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
    > >hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected. Yet
    > >the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    >
    > 50C is not high enough to be concerned about, it may be
    > about average for an OEM box with an upper-end Northwood
    > running quietly. ...
    ....

    Yes, I checked around some more and found that 43C - 50C temps is indeed
    common on 3 ghz Northwoods. I was mislead by the fact that many articles
    stated that temp should be about 10C to 15C lower than that.

    > With that in mind, you might consider wiping off the bulk of
    > the thermal compound (NOT trying to remove every last
    > molecule of it, just using a lint-free cloth to get most of
    > it off- so it's fairly clean but not necessarily having all
    > the compound removed from any pores in the heatsink base.
    >
    > Then try applying only a 1.5 grain-of-rice sized blob of
    > thermal compound in the exact center of the CPU head
    > spreader. After applying the heatstink that will spread
    > out.
    ....

    I followed your advice and tried reinstalling the heat sink and
    reapplying the thermal paste one more time. This time my temps with the
    motherboard on the table are 39C but my case temps are still 50C. I'll
    live with these temps.

    Thanks Kony.
  8. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 21:43:03 +0100, "Michael Hawes" wrote:

    >
    > "Tom Mislewski" <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote in message
    > news:100133011116917.NC-1.54.junkthis@news.calweb.com...
    > > I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU

    ....

    > >
    > > I've finally got the motherboard to post (see my other message titled
    > > Motherboard will not POST). But now I've having a problem with the CPU
    > > temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    > > running. .....In the case even with all the fans hooked up the
    > > CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS and I dont have the
    > > hard drive, video capture card or DVD drive power cables connected. Yet
    > > the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    ....

    However, 50C is not that high for a P4. Quiet PSU may shift
    > less air than standard PSU. Make sure you keep cables tidy. Use Round data
    > cables if poss.
    > Mike.

    Mikr, thanks for telling me my temps are OK for a 3.2 Ghz Northwood.
    I've also taken your advice and switched to round IDE cables.
  9. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

    On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 20:43:17 +0200, Spajky wrote:

    > On 01 Jun 2005 05:01:24 +0500, "Tom Mislewski"
    > <junkthis@nospammers.com> wrote:
    >
    > >I'm building a HTPC with a Pentium 4 3.2ghz Northwood CPU, ...
    > >Silver Ceramique thermal compound, Intel 865 PERL motherboard. .......
    >
    > >temp. At the BIOS screen the CPU temp is 43 deg C after 1 hour of
    > >running. This is is with the motherboard lying on the table in the open
    > >air. If I put it in the LC-10 case even with all the fans hooked up the
    > >CPU temp rises to 50 deg C according to the BIOS ... Yet
    > >the heatsink is barely warm when I touch it.
    >
    > temps are normal from onDie sensor ...!

    Thanks for letting me know what the normal temp range for a 3.2 ghz
    Northwood is Spajky. I'm not so worried about my temps any more.
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