Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (
More info?)
Please see my inline comments...
> Anna writes:
>> In my opinion, the best backup system for the average home user and even
>> small business owner in most cases is having his or her desktop computer
>> equipped with two removable hard drives and using a disk imaging program
>> such as Symantec's Norton Ghost or Acronis True Image to "clone" the
>> contents of their working hard drive to another removable hard drive.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> This solution is tempting to me, too, although I don't have the budget
> for it at the moment. It might be the way I go in future, as tape
> drives with sufficient capacity to hold all the disk space I now have
> would cost thousands of dollars for the drives alone, plus $100 or so
> each for each data cartridge.
Anna responds:
As I've later indicated, the cost of equipping one's desktop computer with
two removable drives, including the two mobile racks, the additional hard
drive, and the disk imaging software, while not trifling, is *not* an
expensive proposition for most users. I would estimate the cost would be in
the neighborhood of $100 to $150.
>> And you're doing all this in one fell swoop, the result of which is the
>> creation of an exact duplicate of your working hard drive. And for
>> *added*
>> safety you can remove this newly-cloned hard drive from the premises, not
>> to
>> mention making unlimited additional clones you desire for near-absolute
>> security.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Yes, being able to move the media elsewhere is important, as it guards
> against major disasters.
Anna comments...
>> While it is true that backup software programs can backup the files you
>> have
>> created in your various programs, they are unable to backup your
>> operating
>> system and (for the most part) the programs installed on your computer.
>> As
>> others have pointed out more that once, many, if not most, computer users
>> have invested substantial time and effort in customizing Windows and
>> configuring their applications to work the way they want to and putting
>> all
>> of that back the way it was can be a difficult, frustrating, and
>> time-consuming effort.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> But there is an opposite side to the coin: What happens if you have to
> restore the system to somewhat different hardware? All that OS
> information in the registry covering the hardware configuration now is
> obsolete. You'll be restoring a system that may not even boot. How
> do you selective restore from a clone in such a way that you get all
> your data and software configuration information back, but you can
> still restore to a somewhat different hardware configuration?
Anna responds...
I really can't see why "there is an opposite side to the coin". The whole
idea of what we are discussing is a mechanism that backs up one's current
system, and does it simply, conveniently, effectively, with reasonable
speed, and is reasonably cost-effective. To indicate that this recommended
mechanism is somewhat deficient because it will not be as simple,
convenient, effective, etc. to restore *another* system introduces a
completely different objective, does it not? Anyway, should the user
completely revamp his/her hardware, programs, etc. etc., wouldn't the user
simply make a clone of his/her new system along the lines I've described?
Why would a user even attempt to use his/her "old" clone to restore to a
different system?
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> After all, if your computer is destroyed, you may not be able to build
> one that is rigorously identical to it from a hardware standpoint.
> And if the new computer isn't identical, restoring the software
> configuration for the hardware may cause a heap of trouble. You have
> to be able to modify the hardware configuration information without
> changing anything else. How do you do that with something that just
> clones the entire drive?
Anna responds...
Please refer to my remarks above. A clone is a clone is a clone. Obviously
it's designed to be a clone of the system one has cloned from. If the user
subsequently builds a completely new system then he or she will clone the
contents of that new system to another clone would he not? And anyway, the
cloned drive *could* be used (with some modification) to clone the contents
of the old drive back to the new system for restoration purposes. See my
further comments on this below.
>> ... isn't it nice to know that you
>> have at hand a perfectly good virus-free clone of your hard drive?
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Yes, if I have an identical hardware platform to which I can restore
> the clone.
Anna responds:
Honestly, isn't that what we're *really* talking about? For the overwhelming
number of users the basic issue is backing up one's current system.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> How do you restore the clone to the virus-infected drive without
> infecting both with the virus? After all, you'll be running the
> cloning program on the machine that has the virus.
Anna responds:
It nearly goes without saying that when a user clones his/her drive, he/she
must ensure that the drive is malware-free and suffers no system files
corruption. If you clone garbage, garbage is what you'll get. Presumably the
cloned drive is virus-free, so that if the working drive subsquently becomes
virus infected, restoring it from that "good" clone represents one of the
basic advantages of the disk cloning process.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Your only choice would be to buy yet a third disk, and clone the clean
> disk to that. You _might_ be able to clone back to the infected disk
> eventually, too, if you can be sure that no virus will sneak in.
Anna responds:
You're really losing me here. Hopefully, my remarks directly above have
clarified the issue for you.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> But really, viruses aren't a big problem in my view. Drive failures
> and other hardware failures are. A simple drive failure can be fixed
> by a cloning program such as you describe. But if you have to replace
> other hardware, or build a new machine ... then what?
Anna responds:
I'm glad to hear that virus infection is not particularly troubling for you.
But believe me, it is for many, many computer users. And it's here that the
virus-free cloned drive is especially valuable.
So let's say that the user builds a new machine with different hardware, say
a new motherboard, a new processor, new RAM, new HD, etc. -- in short, a new
system. The cloned drive could *still* be used to re:clone the contents of
the old drive back to the new system. Sure, after doing so, the user would
presumably need to install (or reinstall) whatever drivers are necessary for
the new system. But his/her precious programs/data would be intact. And
there's no reason why that newly-cloned drive would not be bootable. There
may be activation issues, of course, assuming we're dealing with Windows XP,
but that's another issue.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Not that traditional tape backups are any better in this respect,
> though. It's a problem for any kind of backup.
Anna says...
>> Everything is done outside of your computer because
>> each hard drive resides in a tray (caddy) that you simply slide into the
>> computer's mobile rack.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Sounds nice, but what about performance ... and purchase cost? It's
> the former lower and the latter higher for removal drives? Disk
> drives are the slowest link in the chain as it is already.
Anna responds:
As to "performance" - I take it you're referring to speed of cloning, yes?
Using medium to high-powered processors and modern hard drives, cloning
speed will be somewhere around 1.5 GB/min. Not breakneck speed by any
stretch, but I would guess sufficient for most users. And the nice thing
about the cloning process is that the user need not be in attendance during
most of the process. Once he/she initiates the process, it automatically
performs the cloning process.
As to cost, as I mentioned above - about $100 to $150 for the two mobile
racks, the additional HD, and the cloning software.
Anna says:
>> There's *no* need to partition and format the new drive; *no* need to
>> reinstall your operating system on the new drive; *no* need to reinstall
>> your programs and data files. None of this is necessary. By simply
>> cloning
>> the previously-cloned hard drive to the new drive you once again have two
>> functioning hard drives at your disposal. And a simple turn of the mobile
>> rack's keylock allows the user to boot to either hard drive following the
>> cloning operation.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Unless your hardware configuration has changed. If your cloned system
> expects video card A and you've had to replace your burnt-out card A
> with a new video card B, it may be difficult to even boot, although I
> suppose in that particular case you could fix things fairly quickly.
Anna responds:
There shouldn't be a booting problem at all. As I stated above, after the
contents of the cloned drive has been cloned to the new system, it will
probably will be necessary to install a new video card driver in the example
you've given, but there should be no boot problem at all.
Anna says:
>> As previously indicated, these mobile rack devices are two-piece
>> affairs -
>> the rack itself and the inner tray or caddy (in which the hard drive
>> resides) that slides into the rack. They come in all-aluminum models or a
>> combination of aluminum-plastic ranging in price from about $15 to $50.
>> Naturally, your desktop computer case will need two 5¼" bays that are
>> available to house the mobile racks. Mobile racks come in various
>> versions,
>> depending upon whether the hard drive to be housed is an IDE/ATA, SATA,
>> or
>> SCSI device. A Google search for "removable hard drive mobile racks" will
>> result in a wealth of information on these products and their vendors.
>> I'm
>> aware of many users who have been using inexpensive plastic mobile racks
>> without any problems whatsoever. Unfortunately, there is no industry
>> standard involving the design and construction of the racks nor the inner
>> trays that contain the hard drive.Consequently, there is (usually) no
>> interchangeability of these trays among the various manufacturers of
>> mobile
>> racks. Indeed, there is frequently no interchangeability of the inner
>> trays
>> among different models from the same manufacturer. This lack of
>> interchangeability may not be an issue if the user will be purchasing a
>> particular model of mobile rack for a single computer, however, if the
>> user
>> will have access to other computers, he or she may want to settle on a
>> specific brand and model of mobile rack that will provide for tray
>> interchangeability amongst different computers.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> I'm not clear on this: are you saying that the drives themselves are
> ordinary internal disk drives and it's just a special rack that allows
> them to be connected more easily, or what? Don't you have to buy
> special removable drives and racks that match?
Anna responds:
That's correct. The hard drives are ordinary PATA or SATA drives, nothing
special about them. You just plop them in the tray (caddy), make two simple
connections (power & data cable), and slide the tray into the mobile rack
(which has been installed in the case's 5 1/4" bay, just like a CD-ROM).
Takes about 30 seconds. Obviously you would want the same make/model for the
two mobile racks so that the inner trays would be interchangeable.
Anna says:
>> I can virtually guarantee that once you begin working with two removable
>> hard drives, you'll have but one regret and only one regret. And that is
>> you
>> didn't have this arrangement on your previous computer or computers.
>> While
>> the additional cost involved in configuring your desktop computer with
>> two
>> mobile racks together with the additional hard drive and disk imaging
>> software is not negligible, I can assure you it's money well spent.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> I tend to agree. Unfortunately I have no money to spend at the
> moment. When I do, though, I'll surely look into it, as the
> alternative of buying a DLT or DDS4 tape drive would probably be at
> least as expensive if not more.
Anna responds:
I truly hope you seriously consider this hardware configuration. We gave up
on using tape for backup purposes years ago because of the many difficulties
we encountered with that system. We have installed or helped install
hundreds of systems along the lines I have recommended and I can't recall a
single user ever expressing dissatisfaction with this configuration.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> Right now I try to keep irreplaceable stuff in a few key folders and I
> just copy those somewhere periodically. Not very convenient and very
> error prone, but that's all the budget allows right now. Periodically
> I save to tape, although now I require multiple DDS cassettes for each
> backup because of the growing size of the disks.
Anna says:
>> Frankly,
>> when you consider the enormous advantages of having two removable hard
>> drives on your desktop computer, the additional cost of so equipping your
>> computer in this fashion practically pales into insignificance.
"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@gmail.com> wrote in message
> If you have the money in the first place, but I don't. Maybe someday.
> Thanks for your ideas, anyway--it does sound like going removable may
> be the wave of the future.
Anna responds:
Obviously that's a decision you have to make based on your particular
circumstances. As I've indicated above, we're not talking "big bucks" here.
While I recognize it's not a trifling cost for many users, it's certainly
not an enormous amount by any stretch.
And I would respectfully correct your final statement...
Equipping one's desktop computer with two removable hard drives is not the
"wave of the future", rather, it's here & now.
Anna