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Are External Hard Disk Drives Bootable?

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 23, 2005 1:09:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 23, 2005 1:09:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
> from one machine to another?


Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
if you're running WinXP.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 23, 2005 3:47:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:09:28 GMT, "Mervyn Thomas"
<mervynt@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
>how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
>

Most if not all boards now have bios settings for such USB
boot devices but not all actually can boot from them. In
other words, some bios are still quite buggy and the feature
is broken.

Basically you'll need to find what format the two or more
boards will (not only theoretically support but) actually
boot from as a bios setting, have the bios set to "try" to
boot from that device type before alternate boot devices
(Like the HDD with OS on it) and have made that USB device
to be bootable. Some USB devices come with a manufacturers
utility that can do this or there are other methods you can
find with some Googling, for example,
http://www.marlow.dk/site.php/tech/usbkeys
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 23, 2005 6:43:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <cDPYe.1514$NO2.1321@newsfe4-win.ntli.net>, Mervyn Thomas
says...
> I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
> how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
>
THe problem isn't making the drive bootable. THe problem is that you
need to make sure the motherboard on the system you wish to do it on
supports booting from USB.


--
Conor

"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen
Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 2:20:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:39:30 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
>> from one machine to another?
>
>
> Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
> if you're running WinXP.


You might be off on a wild tangent here, there is no
activation issue for the basic task the OP described.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 2:20:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>>"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
>>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
>>> from one machine to another?
>>
>>
>> Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
>> if you're running WinXP.
>
>
> You might be off on a wild tangent here, there is no
> activation issue for the basic task the OP described.


If the OP intends to install WinXP on a drive in one computer
and then move it to another computer and use it, it will
have to be re-activated for the new computer because
ntdetect.com will recognize the major change in environment
when it runs in the new computer. The keyword is "bootable".
If all the OP wants to do is transfer data between 2 computers,
"bootable" (as in "able to bootstrap-load itself") isn't part of
the question.

*TimDaniels*
September 24, 2005 5:10:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <L7ednUAn5LDSB6neRVn-hg@comcast.com>, TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com
says...
> "kony" wrote:
> > "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
> >
> >>"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
> >>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
> >>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
> >>> from one machine to another?
> >>
> >>
> >> Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
> >> if you're running WinXP.
> >
> >
> > You might be off on a wild tangent here, there is no
> > activation issue for the basic task the OP described.
>
>
> If the OP intends to install WinXP on a drive in one computer
> and then move it to another computer and use it, it will
> have to be re-activated for the new computer because
> ntdetect.com will recognize the major change in environment
> when it runs in the new computer. The keyword is "bootable".
> If all the OP wants to do is transfer data between 2 computers,
> "bootable" (as in "able to bootstrap-load itself") isn't part of
> the question.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
Avoid the activation problem completely - dump XP, load Win2K.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 11:05:24 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:09:28 GMT, "Mervyn Thomas"
<mervynt@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
>how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
>
WinXP is not bootable from an external drive.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 4:33:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 17:14:43 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>"kony" wrote:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>
>>>"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
>>>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
>>>> from one machine to another?
>>>
>>>
>>> Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
>>> if you're running WinXP.
>>
>>
>> You might be off on a wild tangent here, there is no
>> activation issue for the basic task the OP described.
>
>
> If the OP intends to install WinXP on a drive in one computer
> and then move it to another computer and use it, it will
> have to be re-activated for the new computer because
> ntdetect.com will recognize the major change in environment
> when it runs in the new computer.

.... and if the OP intends to drive to work an automibile
would be necessary. This is not the topic, the topic was
"only" booting a thumbdrive from one system to another.

You do realize that a thumbdrive is a flash based USB drive,
yes? Do you know anyone that runs XP from one? Maybe some
kind of PE environment but no mention of that and activation
wouldn't be an issue on that either.


> The keyword is "bootable".
> If all the OP wants to do is transfer data between 2 computers,
> "bootable" (as in "able to bootstrap-load itself") isn't part of
> the question.

Yes, "bootable". Nowhere in the word is "Windows XP" at all
and it is irrelevant if the system happens to have XP on the
hard drives. OP is not moving hard drives as a described
task.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 4:34:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 07:05:24 +0000 (UTC), Edward W. Thompson
<thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote:

>On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:09:28 GMT, "Mervyn Thomas"
><mervynt@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
>>how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
>>
> WinXP is not bootable from an external drive.

It is possible to do it, but you'd not want an overbloated
OS that constantly writes to pagefile on a whim, on an
inherantly small flash based drive.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 7:00:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:lgu9j1107gv9516ujvfosb56j7c0nimqu8@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:09:28 GMT, "Mervyn Thomas"
> <mervynt@ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>>I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone has experience on
>>how to make a USB drive bootable from one machine to another?
>>
> WinXP is not bootable from an external drive.

Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load USB drivers at post and even
list USB as a boot option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make a thumb
drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D. I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup
and it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.

Ed
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 8:50:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" spewed:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>>"kony" wrote:
>>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>>>> I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
>>>>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
>>>>> from one machine to another?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Don't forget the problem of activation on the new machine
>>>> if you're running WinXP.
>>>
>>>
>>> You might be off on a wild tangent here, there is no
>>> activation issue for the basic task the OP described.
>>
>>
>> If the OP intends to install WinXP on a drive in one computer
>> and then move it to another computer and use it, it will
>> have to be re-activated for the new computer because
>> ntdetect.com will recognize the major change in environment
>> when it runs in the new computer.
>
> ... and if the OP intends to drive to work an automibile
> would be necessary. This is not the topic, the topic was
> "only" booting a thumbdrive from one system to another.
>
> You do realize that a thumbdrive is a flash based USB drive,
> yes? Do you know anyone that runs XP from one? Maybe some
> kind of PE environment but no mention of that and activation
> wouldn't be an issue on that either.
>
>
>> The keyword is "bootable".
>> If all the OP wants to do is transfer data between 2 computers,
>> "bootable" (as in "able to bootstrap-load itself") isn't part of
>> the question.
>
> Yes, "bootable". Nowhere in the word is "Windows XP" at all
> and it is irrelevant if the system happens to have XP on the
> hard drives. OP is not moving hard drives as a described
> task.


Please read the subject line of this thread:
"Are External Hard Disk Drives Bootable?".

Please read the OP's opening statement:
"I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
from one machine to another?"

Go ahead, read it - it's all quoted above.

Obviously, the OP wants to move an external USB hard disk
drive from one machine to another, not a USB thumb drive.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 8:56:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Ed Medlin" wrote:
>
> "Edward W. Thompson" wrote:
>> "Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>
>>> I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if
>>> anyone has experience on how to make a USB drive
>>> bootable from one machine to another?
>>>
>> WinXP is not bootable from an external drive.
>
> Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load USB drivers
> at post and even list USB as a boot option if you have a
> drive plugged in. I can make a thumb drive bootable on my
> Asus P5GDC-D. I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup
> and it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.


Is that external USB2 HDD "bootable" in the sense that
is will bootstrap-load an OS from itself without the
presence of an IDE HDD? Or is it just making itself
visible and accessible to an already loaded OS?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 24, 2005 9:08:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" wrote:
> Edward W. Thompson wrote:
>
>> "Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
>>
>> >I am seeking the ultimate backup and wondered if anyone
>>> has experience on how to make a USB drive bootable
>>> from one machine to another?
>>>
>> WinXP is not bootable from an external drive.
>
> It is possible to do it, but you'd not want an overbloated
> OS that constantly writes to pagefile on a whim, on an
> inherantly small flash based drive.


The subject is: "Are External Hard Disk Drives Bootable?".

In a Microsoft newsgroup, a poster claims to have several
times removed an external USB HDD to which a clone of
the WinXP OS had been transferred and plugged it into
the motherboard IDE controller, and it booted up. His
argument was that the external USB HDD was just an IDE
HDD with a USB/IDE bridge.

That is probably true. But the question remains of whether
BIOSes - new or old - can talk "USB" enough to go out to
the external USB HDD and read its MBR and pass control
to it so that the boot process could proceed independently
of any internal IDE HDD.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 4:48:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 17:08:11 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:


> The subject is: "Are External Hard Disk Drives Bootable?".

So?
In the thread the issue mentioned was backup, not migration.



> That is probably true. But the question remains of whether
> BIOSes - new or old - can talk "USB" enough to go out to
> the external USB HDD and read its MBR and pass control
> to it so that the boot process could proceed independently
> of any internal IDE HDD.

You are again assuming a specific task not expressed as a
goal in this thread. Essentially a tangent not worth
pursuing until there would be evidence that this very thing
is the goal.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 4:50:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 16:56:19 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:


> Is that external USB2 HDD "bootable" in the sense that
> is will bootstrap-load an OS from itself without the
> presence of an IDE HDD?

There is no other sense of "bootable".


> Or is it just making itself
> visible and accessible to an already loaded OS?


This is silly. Where in the world are you getting such
crazy ideas?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 4:50:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>
>> Is that external USB2 HDD "bootable" in the sense that
>> is will bootstrap-load an OS from itself without the
>> presence of an IDE HDD?
>
> There is no other sense of "bootable".


Of course there isn't. And... many newbies mis-
understand the term, thinking apparently that
"bootable" means "able to be made 'live' and
accessible", and having no idea what "boot"
means and how it relates to the term
"bootstrap load" and what *that* means.


>> Or is it just making itself
>> visible and accessible to an already loaded OS?
>
>
> This is silly. Where in the world are you getting such
> crazy ideas?


Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
understand what misconceptions exist.

As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:

" Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",

can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?

*TimDaniels
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 6:15:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:22:25 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:


> Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
> much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
> understand what misconceptions exist.
>
> As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:
>
> " Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
> USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
> option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
> a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
> I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
> it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",
>
> can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
> merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?



It is not possible for it to "show up just like another
drive" and not be able to have it bootable, in the real,
correct, functional sense of the word. There is no
distinction to be made between the two that matters as
applied to bios enumeration for boot purposes.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 6:15:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>
>> Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
>> much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
>> understand what misconceptions exist.
>>
>> As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:
>>
>> " Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
>> USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
>> option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
>> a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
>> I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
>> it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",
>>
>> can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
>> merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?
>
>
>
> It is not possible for it to "show up just like another
> drive" and not be able to have it bootable, in the real,
> correct, functional sense of the word. There is no
> distinction to be made between the two that matters as
> applied to bios enumeration for boot purposes.


Hey, don't lecture *me* on what someone else meant.
Our definitions of "bootable" coincide. But does the
*Ed Medlin* use "bootable" in the sense that we use it?
He said (and I'm sorry, it wasn't Edward W. Thompson):
"I can make a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and it works
very well. It shows up just like another drive."

Now is he implying that his USB2 80g HDD is bootable
like his USB thumb drive? Or is he just saying that his
USB thumb drive is bootable and his USB2 80g HDD
just seves to backup data?

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 6:15:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"kony" wrote:
> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>
>
>> Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
>> much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
>> understand what misconceptions exist.
>>
>> As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:
>>
>> " Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
>> USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
>> option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
>> a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
>> I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
>> it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",
>>
>> can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
>> merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?
>
>
>
> It is not possible for it to "show up just like another
> drive" and not be able to have it bootable, in the real,
> correct, functional sense of the word. There is no
> distinction to be made between the two that matters as
> applied to bios enumeration for boot purposes.


Well, re-reading the above paragraph, I see that it's ambiguous,
and I don't know *what* you mean to say. By "showing up just
like another drive" I referred to Disk Management's term for a
partition - a "Local Disk" - i.e. a logical disk. Data partitions
can be seen and accessed as just another Local Disk
without being "bootable". My question was whether Ed
Medlin meant that his USB2 80g HDD could be seen as a
Local Disk by the OS, or that it contained an OS could actually
bootstrap load itself.

*TimDaniels*
September 25, 2005 7:24:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <ck1cj1hn5iujpe74cd5tigj6cahdbqmeul@4ax.com>, spam@spam.com
says...
> On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:22:25 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
> <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>
>
> > Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
> > much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
> > understand what misconceptions exist.
> >
> > As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:
> >
> > " Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
> > USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
> > option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
> > a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
> > I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
> > it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",
> >
> > can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
> > merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?
>
>
>
> It is not possible for it to "show up just like another
> drive" and not be able to have it bootable, in the real,
> correct, functional sense of the word. There is no
> distinction to be made between the two that matters as
> applied to bios enumeration for boot purposes.
>
The term "bootable" arose out of the concept of "picking one's self up
by his bootstraps", and the code to do this was originally referred to
as a "bootstrap loader". I know, because I wrote a number of them in
machine language when I was working with EARLY minicomputers. On
many/most of those machines those instructions had to be manually loaded
into memory, in binary, via switches on the machines.

Simply put, if the computer cannot load executable instructions from the
device in question and do so via successively more complex sets of
executable code until a sufficient amount of the OS is loaded to allow
it to take over and completely configure itself to become a fully up-
and-running system, that device AIN'T A BOOTABLE DEVICE! PERIOD!!
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 7:24:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"G" wrote:
> Simply put, if the computer cannot load executable instructions from the
> device in question and do so via successively more complex sets of
> executable code until a sufficient amount of the OS is loaded to allow
> it to take over and completely configure itself to become a fully up-
> and-running system, that device AIN'T A BOOTABLE DEVICE! PERIOD!!


You got it! I used to load programs on a *mainframe* using a
bootstrap loader that began by manually entering (via switches)
a single instruction to read a single punched card from the card
reader. That data contained instructions to read in 10 more
punched cards, which contained a loader which then loaded an
executive, which then loaded single programs. That was
*bootstrapping*. Now the question is whether anyone has been
able to bootstrap load an OS from a USB external HD. Some
say they can, and Microsoft MVPs say it's impossible. I still
don't know what to believe - partly because many people seem
not to know what "boot" means.

*TimDaniels*
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 10:28:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 24 Sep 2005 18:22:25 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
<TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:

>"kony" wrote:
>> "Timothy Daniels" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Is that external USB2 HDD "bootable" in the sense that
>>> is will bootstrap-load an OS from itself without the
>>> presence of an IDE HDD?
>>
>> There is no other sense of "bootable".
>
>
> Of course there isn't. And... many newbies mis-
> understand the term, thinking apparently that
> "bootable" means "able to be made 'live' and
> accessible", and having no idea what "boot"
> means and how it relates to the term
> "bootstrap load" and what *that* means.
>
>
>>> Or is it just making itself
>>> visible and accessible to an already loaded OS?
>>
>>
>> This is silly. Where in the world are you getting such
>> crazy ideas?
>
>
> Apparently you don't get out of the homebuilder NGS
> much. Read the microsoft.public. * NGs, and you'll
> understand what misconceptions exist.
>
> As for "Edward W. Thompson" who wrote:
>
> " Sure they are. Most newer MBs and bios load
> USB drivers at post and even list USB as a boot
> option if you have a drive plugged in. I can make
> a thumb drive bootable on my Asus P5GDC-D.
> I use an external USB2 80g HDD for backup and
> it works very well. It shows up just like another drive.",
>
> can he *boot* from his "USB2 80g HDD", or is he
> merely saying that it "shows up just like another drive"?
>
>*TimDaniels

Reading posts does not seem your strong point. Edward Thompson did not
write what you claimed. What I said was you cannot boot WINXP from an
external drive. For boot read 'start'. I do not dispute that an
external drive can be bootable (e.g. DOS) but not from WINXP.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 7:05:22 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Timothy Daniels" <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote in message
news:X_mdne0ZKIUAtaXeRVn-iw@comcast.com...
> "Mervyn Thomas" wrote:
> > OK - guys all very interesting and forgive me saying theoretical - has
> > anyone got an external drive which is a copy of a normal bootable drive?
> > If you have how about pulling the power supply on the normal drive and
> > see if the external drive will replace it and boot as normal?
>
>
> A guy in one of the NGs (microsoft.public.windowsxp.* , I believe)
> said that he cloned an IDE HD onto a USB external drive using
> True Image, and then he took the hard drive out of an external USB
> drive's enclosure and since it had an IDE connector, he put it inside
> his PC and plugged in an IDE connector, and it booted up.
> Apparently, the current crop of USB drives are comprised of a
> standard IDE HD with a USB/IDE bridge.
>
> *TimDaniels*
>
Correct, at least mine is. It is a USB2/Firewire "box" with an IDE connector
for the HDD.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 7:06:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Glen" <me@mydomain.net> wrote in message
news:Ee_Ze.229$sL3.214@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
> In article <soegj15tsvm9jrp7g4vurj66619mgfedmu@4ax.com>, spam@spam.com
> says...
> > On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:02:46 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
> > <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
> >
> > >"Ed Medlin" wrote:
> > >> To clarify it a bit Tim, If I change the boot order in bios on a
recently
> > >> released S-775 Asus MB, I can boot Linux from the USB2 HDD.
> > >
> > >
> > > That's interesting. Apparently BIOS writers have gotten around
> > > to implementing USB booting as this paper by Microsoft seems
> > > to say is necessary:
> > > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/usbfaq.msp...
> > >
> > >*TimDaniels*
> >
> >
> > BIOS have supported USB booting for several years... it just
> > didn't work consistently enough that you could buy a board
> > and "depend" on being able to do it, had to rely on reports
> > from others who had tried *board X with bios ver. Y* or try
> > whichever particular board yourself. It does pre-date
> > WinXP, but since "all" boards can't do it (Not only as a
> > supposed fuction, but actually "DO" it) it would be expected
> > that it is not "supported" per-se, as a device to run
> > windows.
> >
> Apparently, I have one of those boards (gigabyte - updated BIOS, but
> don't know MB ref. No. offhand) where the feature is "supposed", but it
> won't DO IT. The BIOS says it supports bootable USB, Win2K can be
> loaded to it, but drive WILL NOT boot - gives Inaccessible Device error.
> Chkdsk shows no errors. I use the drive for backup but after all the
> discussions decided to try to load OS onto it.
>
> Glen
>

You have to have the USB device plugged in and powered up (if necessary)
before the option will show in the bios.

Ed
September 29, 2005 12:38:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <lky_e.413$qX7.133@newssvr22.news.prodigy.net>,
ed@edmedlin.com says...
>
> > > BIOS have supported USB booting for several years... it just
> > > didn't work consistently enough that you could buy a board
> > > and "depend" on being able to do it, had to rely on reports
> > > from others who had tried *board X with bios ver. Y* or try
> > > whichever particular board yourself. It does pre-date
> > > WinXP, but since "all" boards can't do it (Not only as a
> > > supposed fuction, but actually "DO" it) it would be expected
> > > that it is not "supported" per-se, as a device to run
> > > windows.
> > >
> > Apparently, I have one of those boards (gigabyte - updated BIOS, but
> > don't know MB ref. No. offhand) where the feature is "supposed", but it
> > won't DO IT. The BIOS says it supports bootable USB, Win2K can be
> > loaded to it, but drive WILL NOT boot - gives Inaccessible Device error.
> > Chkdsk shows no errors. I use the drive for backup but after all the
> > discussions decided to try to load OS onto it.
> >
> > Glen
> >
>
> You have to have the USB device plugged in and powered up (if necessary)
> before the option will show in the bios.
>
> Ed
>
It was plugged in and powered up. That's how I got Win2K to install to
it in the first place and the BIOS to show it as a bootable device.
Win2k gets somewhere ito its boot sequence, even showing its logo
screen, etc. Then, Win2K barfs, giving the "inaccessible Device" error.
Contrary to what I said originally I'm actually not sure whether the
problem is the BIOS or Win2K, as the OS load sequence seems to have
progressed pretty far. Obviously, some piece of code in the boot-up
sequence cannot get what it wants from that drive via a USB port. The
drive works fine for regular file read/writes. It is actually a HD I
removed from a defunct laptop and put into an enclosure that had a USB
port.

Glen
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 29, 2005 11:41:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:03:16 GMT, Glen <me@mydomain.net> wrote:

>In article <soegj15tsvm9jrp7g4vurj66619mgfedmu@4ax.com>, spam@spam.com
>says...
>> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:02:46 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
>> <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"Ed Medlin" wrote:
>> >> To clarify it a bit Tim, If I change the boot order in bios on a recently
>> >> released S-775 Asus MB, I can boot Linux from the USB2 HDD.
>> >
>> >
>> > That's interesting. Apparently BIOS writers have gotten around
>> > to implementing USB booting as this paper by Microsoft seems
>> > to say is necessary:
>> > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/usbfaq.msp...
>> >
>> >*TimDaniels*
>>
>>
>> BIOS have supported USB booting for several years... it just
>> didn't work consistently enough that you could buy a board
>> and "depend" on being able to do it, had to rely on reports
>> from others who had tried *board X with bios ver. Y* or try
>> whichever particular board yourself. It does pre-date
>> WinXP, but since "all" boards can't do it (Not only as a
>> supposed fuction, but actually "DO" it) it would be expected
>> that it is not "supported" per-se, as a device to run
>> windows.
>>
>Apparently, I have one of those boards (gigabyte - updated BIOS, but
>don't know MB ref. No. offhand) where the feature is "supposed", but it
>won't DO IT. The BIOS says it supports bootable USB, Win2K can be
>loaded to it, but drive WILL NOT boot - gives Inaccessible Device error.
>Chkdsk shows no errors. I use the drive for backup but after all the
>discussions decided to try to load OS onto it.
>
>Glen

My Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro-G will boot from a USB HDD (DOS). I have
tried many approaches to get it to boot WINXP but without sucess.

About a year ago, perhaps longer, there was a thread on the same
subject. At that time all participants agreed finally that WINXP
could not be loaded (directly loaded that is) onto an external drive
and the drive then made bootable. Since then I have not seen a post
that claims someone has actually succeeded in doing this.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 29, 2005 3:13:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

"Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
news:256nj1p934cjp5l9uc3e3v1dg6e2a6p8uo@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:03:16 GMT, Glen <me@mydomain.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <soegj15tsvm9jrp7g4vurj66619mgfedmu@4ax.com>, spam@spam.com
> >says...
> >> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:02:46 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
> >> <TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Ed Medlin" wrote:
> >> >> To clarify it a bit Tim, If I change the boot order in bios on a
recently
> >> >> released S-775 Asus MB, I can boot Linux from the USB2 HDD.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > That's interesting. Apparently BIOS writers have gotten around
> >> > to implementing USB booting as this paper by Microsoft seems
> >> > to say is necessary:
> >> > http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/usbfaq.msp...
> >> >
> >> >*TimDaniels*
> >>
> >>
> >> BIOS have supported USB booting for several years... it just
> >> didn't work consistently enough that you could buy a board
> >> and "depend" on being able to do it, had to rely on reports
> >> from others who had tried *board X with bios ver. Y* or try
> >> whichever particular board yourself. It does pre-date
> >> WinXP, but since "all" boards can't do it (Not only as a
> >> supposed fuction, but actually "DO" it) it would be expected
> >> that it is not "supported" per-se, as a device to run
> >> windows.
> >>
> >Apparently, I have one of those boards (gigabyte - updated BIOS, but
> >don't know MB ref. No. offhand) where the feature is "supposed", but it
> >won't DO IT. The BIOS says it supports bootable USB, Win2K can be
> >loaded to it, but drive WILL NOT boot - gives Inaccessible Device error.
> >Chkdsk shows no errors. I use the drive for backup but after all the
> >discussions decided to try to load OS onto it.
> >
> >Glen
>
> My Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro-G will boot from a USB HDD (DOS). I have
> tried many approaches to get it to boot WINXP but without sucess.
>
> About a year ago, perhaps longer, there was a thread on the same
> subject. At that time all participants agreed finally that WINXP
> could not be loaded (directly loaded that is) onto an external drive
> and the drive then made bootable. Since then I have not seen a post
> that claims someone has actually succeeded in doing this.

I will have to put that in my "to do" list and sometime when I have some
spare time give it a try. I have been successful in booting to dos programs
and Linux, but have not tried to boot Windows. I will post here when I get a
chance to give it a go. XP can be a weird bird to boot up with another
install present, so you very well could be correct. Linux can boot up on
just about anything, so that is probably not a good analogy.

Ed
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 29, 2005 3:13:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (More info?)

Ed Medlin wrote:

> "Edward W. Thompson" <thomeduk1@btopenworld.com> wrote in message
> news:256nj1p934cjp5l9uc3e3v1dg6e2a6p8uo@4ax.com...
>
>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 22:03:16 GMT, Glen <me@mydomain.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>In article <soegj15tsvm9jrp7g4vurj66619mgfedmu@4ax.com>, spam@spam.com
>>>says...
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 10:02:46 -0700, "Timothy Daniels"
>>>><TDaniels@NoSpamDot.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>"Ed Medlin" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>To clarify it a bit Tim, If I change the boot order in bios on a
>
> recently
>
>>>>>>released S-775 Asus MB, I can boot Linux from the USB2 HDD.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> That's interesting. Apparently BIOS writers have gotten around
>>>>> to implementing USB booting as this paper by Microsoft seems
>>>>> to say is necessary:
>>>>> http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/device/storage/usbfaq.msp...
>>>>>
>>>>>*TimDaniels*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>BIOS have supported USB booting for several years... it just
>>>>didn't work consistently enough that you could buy a board
>>>>and "depend" on being able to do it, had to rely on reports
>>>>from others who had tried *board X with bios ver. Y* or try
>>>>whichever particular board yourself. It does pre-date
>>>>WinXP, but since "all" boards can't do it (Not only as a
>>>>supposed fuction, but actually "DO" it) it would be expected
>>>>that it is not "supported" per-se, as a device to run
>>>>windows.
>>>>
>>>
>>>Apparently, I have one of those boards (gigabyte - updated BIOS, but
>>>don't know MB ref. No. offhand) where the feature is "supposed", but it
>>>won't DO IT. The BIOS says it supports bootable USB, Win2K can be
>>>loaded to it, but drive WILL NOT boot - gives Inaccessible Device error.
>>>Chkdsk shows no errors. I use the drive for backup but after all the
>>>discussions decided to try to load OS onto it.
>>>
>>>Glen
>>
>>My Gigabyte GA-8IPE1000 Pro-G will boot from a USB HDD (DOS). I have
>>tried many approaches to get it to boot WINXP but without sucess.
>>
>>About a year ago, perhaps longer, there was a thread on the same
>>subject. At that time all participants agreed finally that WINXP
>>could not be loaded (directly loaded that is) onto an external drive
>>and the drive then made bootable. Since then I have not seen a post
>>that claims someone has actually succeeded in doing this.
>
>
> I will have to put that in my "to do" list and sometime when I have some
> spare time give it a try. I have been successful in booting to dos programs
> and Linux, but have not tried to boot Windows. I will post here when I get a
> chance to give it a go. XP can be a weird bird to boot up with another
> install present, so you very well could be correct. Linux can boot up on
> just about anything, so that is probably not a good analogy.
>
> Ed
>
>

I don't know if anyone saw the last time I mentioned this but it isn't a
'boot' issue. It's that Windows doesn't support that device class as a
'system' drive. That's why you get the error AFTER the 'boot' and when
Windows is bringing up it's driver base.

It kind of makes sense from a licensing standpoint. It's licensed for use
on the machine it's installed on, which pretty much precludes the notion of
a 'portable' system drive you could plug into anything.
!