Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Gotta Question

Last response: in Systems
Share
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 25, 2005 7:37:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do this
with a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.

How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?

--
Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's request
Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
Topic URL: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/Home-Built-Gotta-ftopict6...
Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse: http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=314837

More about : gotta question

September 25, 2005 7:37:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

nero will create a bootable CD. It can emulate a floppy or a hard drive. You
add the files that you want. and burn it.


"Trashdog" <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote in message
news:7_314837_93dc6279d886edf582c68f1346b6f528@hardwareforumz.com...
> I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do this
> with a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>
> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's
request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL:
http://www.hardwareforumz.com/Home-Built-Gotta-ftopict6...
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=314837
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 1:52:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Yes, it is possible. I tried it once, after flashing with a floppy
didn't work. When making a CD didn't seem to be an easy option, I looked
at my floppy drive and found the problem, and me and my floppydrive
lived happily ever after.

Conclusion: spend a few dollars on a floppy drive, since you still can't
live without one.

Marc

Trashdog wrote:
> I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do this
> with a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>
> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>
Related resources
September 26, 2005 2:22:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:37:01 -0400, Trashdog thoughtfully wrote:

> I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do this with
> a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>
> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?


Seems like work as many vendors have a Windows based BIOS flash
utility.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 4:01:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

What trick, what device, what starting-hole on Sun, 25 Sep 2005
22:22:02 GMT, canst thou now find out, to hide jaster
<jaster@home.net> from this open and apparent shame?:

>On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:37:01 -0400, Trashdog thoughtfully wrote:
>
>> I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
>> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do
this with
>> a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>>
>> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>
>
>Seems like work as many vendors have a Windows based BIOS flash
>utility.

This is not an answer to your question.

Why do so many manufacturers of PC boxs leave out floppies? They're
like, what $8? Sure floppies are like yesterdays stale drawers, with a
brown butterfly denoting The Rear, but as jaster demonstrates above,
they are oh so useful & EZ.

--

"The Borg assimilated my race, and all I got was this crummy tagline."
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 7:34:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 25 Sep 2005 15:37:01 -0400, Trashdog
<UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote:

>I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
>motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do this
>with a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>
>How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?


If you don't even know how to create a bootable CD to get
this done, IMO it is not a very good idea for you to give up
floppies just yet.

It's rather easy though, most burning apps will make a
bootable disc, just make it boot plain dos with nothing more
loading, put the flasher and the bios version on it.

Note that if your flash fails, you can't reboot the CD and
reflash it, the system may be virtually dead until you get a
floppy drive, make the floppy and reflash. Floppy drives
are not used because people "like" them, they're used
because for some things, they are very useful if not
"always" necessary... and for some things like emergency
bios recovery, they are always necessary except for a rare
few boards with secondary bios EEPROM onboard (and a
properly working recovery implementation- just because it
has two chips, when the day comes that you needed the 2nd
one you may not know yet if it really works so seamlessly as
the design goal implied).
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 4:13:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Google search on "Bootable DOS CD" gives http://www.nu2.nu/bootcd/ with
serveral examples.

Ian Boys
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 7:53:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:01:15 -0400, uh Clem...
<SANITARY_PEDESTAL_clause39@yahoo.com_CHEESE_LOG> wrote:


>Why do so many manufacturers of PC boxs leave out floppies? They're
>like, what $8? Sure floppies are like yesterdays stale drawers, with a
>brown butterfly denoting The Rear, but as jaster demonstrates above,
>they are oh so useful & EZ.

$8 here, $8 there... it adds up.

They are also likely to think it's a good thing to keep
users' ability to do anything with a floppy, limited. If
you can boot their pre-installed OS, and if the system works
using ONLY the software they provide, exactly as they
provided it, their obligation towards warranty is done.
What gain would they have in allowing you to use a floppy?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 26, 2005 11:27:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I am not sure about the flashable but this link will get you
a bootable CD-ROmM with SP2.

http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slip...


"Trashdog" <UseLinkToEmail@HardwareForumz.com> wrote in message
news:7_314837_93dc6279d886edf582c68f1346b6f528@hardwareforumz.com...
>I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I'd like to do this
> with a cd-rom since I'm building this system without a floppy drive.
>
> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>
> --
> Posted using the http://www.hardwareforumz.com interface, at author's
> request
> Articles individually checked for conformance to usenet standards
> Topic URL:
> http://www.hardwareforumz.com/Home-Built-Gotta-ftopict6...
> Visit Topic URL to contact author (reg. req'd). Report abuse:
> http://www.hardwareforumz.com/eform.php?p=314837
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 27, 2005 5:48:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:

> On Mon, 26 Sep 2005 00:01:15 -0400, uh Clem...
> <SANITARY_PEDESTAL_clause39@yahoo.com_CHEESE_LOG> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Why do so many manufacturers of PC boxs leave out floppies? They're
>>like, what $8? Sure floppies are like yesterdays stale drawers, with a
>>brown butterfly denoting The Rear, but as jaster demonstrates above,
>>they are oh so useful & EZ.
>
>
> $8 here, $8 there... it adds up.
>
> They are also likely to think it's a good thing to keep
> users' ability to do anything with a floppy, limited. If
> you can boot their pre-installed OS, and if the system works
> using ONLY the software they provide, exactly as they
> provided it, their obligation towards warranty is done.
> What gain would they have in allowing you to use a floppy?
>

The great floppy debate is always interesting with the 'home builder' often
proudly proclaiming they don't include the 'useless' things and now the
buyers of pre-builts wondering why they aren't there.

Ironically, the home builder is precisely who might need one to load F6
drivers while pre-builts are usually distributed with a pre configured
restore image on CD so there's no great burning need for a floppy.

You're quite right about secondary reasons besides the '8 bucks', which
isn't really just 8 bucks.

While the system designer looks at per box components accountants tend to
look at 'the company' and 8 bucks over, say, 120,000 systems looks to them
like a million dollars. A million dollars for something that isn't really
'needed'.

But then, in addition to the component cost, you've got to qualify them,
buy them, stock them, part number them with an alternate suppliers list,
install them, test them, and it takes a cable, and routing it, and
instructions in the manual because it's a 'human interactive' device, and
call support for those who jam them, and warranty repair/replacement
support, and in-house service procedures. That costs money too and all for
something that isn't really 'needed'.

As you aptly said, it adds up.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 27, 2005 5:49:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

uh Clem... wrote:
> What trick, what device, what starting-hole on Sun, 25 Sep 2005
> 22:22:02 GMT, canst thou now find out, to hide jaster
> <jaster@home.net> from this open and apparent shame?:
>
>
>>On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:37:01 -0400, Trashdog thoughtfully wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
>>>motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do
>
> this with
>
>>>a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
>>>
>>>How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>>
>>
>>Seems like work as many vendors have a Windows based BIOS flash
>>utility.
>
>
> This is not an answer to your question.
>
> Why do so many manufacturers of PC boxs leave out floppies? They're
> like, what $8? Sure floppies are like yesterdays stale drawers, with a
> brown butterfly denoting The Rear, but as jaster demonstrates above,
> they are oh so useful & EZ.
>

Like everywhere else in life, decisions have to be made. In this case
the decision was made that, given even a nominal cost, so few people
would want a floppy drive that it wasn't worth including it. And anybody
who really did need it would be able to add it themselves.

A manufacturer can't really be expected to accommodate every need of
every user unless they operate on a purely custom basis. Sure, if you
look hard enough you can probably find somebody who REALLY REALLY needs
to have a 5.25" floppy drive. And for every thousand of these you might
even find somebody who REALLY REALLY needs to have an 8" floppy drive
(don't laugh, I've been there). The question is "when do you stop?" and
the answer for mass-market makers is "at the cheapest point".

--
John McGaw
[Knoxville, TN, USA]
http://johnmcgaw.com
September 27, 2005 5:49:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John McGaw" <nobody@nowh.ere> wrote in message
news:yAf_e.596$Qb6.358@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> uh Clem... wrote:
> > What trick, what device, what starting-hole on Sun, 25 Sep 2005
> > 22:22:02 GMT, canst thou now find out, to hide jaster
> > <jaster@home.net> from this open and apparent shame?:
> >
> >
> >>On Sun, 25 Sep 2005 15:37:01 -0400, Trashdog thoughtfully wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> >>>motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I’d like to do
> >
> > this with
> >
> >>>a cd-rom since I’m building this system without a floppy drive.
> >>>
> >>>How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
> >>
> >>
> >>Seems like work as many vendors have a Windows based BIOS flash
> >>utility.
> >
> >
> > This is not an answer to your question.
> >
> > Why do so many manufacturers of PC boxs leave out floppies? They're
> > like, what $8? Sure floppies are like yesterdays stale drawers, with a
> > brown butterfly denoting The Rear, but as jaster demonstrates above,
> > they are oh so useful & EZ.
> >
>
> Like everywhere else in life, decisions have to be made. In this case
> the decision was made that, given even a nominal cost, so few people
> would want a floppy drive that it wasn't worth including it. And anybody
> who really did need it would be able to add it themselves.
>
> A manufacturer can't really be expected to accommodate every need of
> every user unless they operate on a purely custom basis. Sure, if you
> look hard enough you can probably find somebody who REALLY REALLY needs
> to have a 5.25" floppy drive. And for every thousand of these you might
> even find somebody who REALLY REALLY needs to have an 8" floppy drive
> (don't laugh, I've been there). The question is "when do you stop?" and
> the answer for mass-market makers is "at the cheapest point".
>
> --
> John McGaw
> [Knoxville, TN, USA]

I agree, and this is another example of technology changing(decisions being
made) and software manufacturers not keeping up. Raid was a big problem, as
all you got from windows was a search for A:D rive after F6. Now the service
paks have changed that. I have one machine that has a floppy, I share it on
the LAN(doesn't always get recognized during some install routines)
eventually things catch up here in the USA, usually right about the time
another major change takes place. These folks learned from the best GM, Big
oil etc etc.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 27, 2005 11:47:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:58:58 -0700, "JAD"
<kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:


>I agree, and this is another example of technology changing(decisions being
>made) and software manufacturers not keeping up.

Not really true, technology didn't change, the OEMs simply
chose not to include a floppy even though there were clearly
still uses for them.

I don't use my spoon much when dining, does that mean I'm ok
with not having one around? No.
September 27, 2005 11:47:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

do you argue long windedly for the sake of it ?

"technology changing(decisions being made)" what does this mean to you?

>"the OEMs simply chose not to include a floppy" is there a huge gap in
>meaning that you felt the need?



"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:kb8jj1d96181k5bjvqt1vbejr1iistg9n2@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:58:58 -0700, "JAD"
> <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I agree, and this is another example of technology changing(decisions
>>being
>>made) and software manufacturers not keeping up.
>
> Not really true, technology didn't change, the OEMs simply
> chose not to include a floppy even though there were clearly
> still uses for them.
>
> I don't use my spoon much when dining, does that mean I'm ok
> with not having one around? No.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 12:10:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <7_314837_93dc6279d886edf582c68f1346b6f528
@hardwareforumz.com>, Trashdog says...
> I want to create a cd-rom boot disk and flash the bios on this Soyo
> motherboard so it will work with service pack 2. I?d like to do this
> with a cd-rom since I?m building this system without a floppy drive.
>
> How do I create a bootable and flashable CD-ROM?
>
>
Create a bootable CD with Nero and copy the flash utility and the BIOS
file to the CDROM.

When the CD boots, hold the left shift key so no system files are
loaded.

--
Conor

"You're not married, you haven't got a girlfriend and you've never seen
Star Trek? Good Lord!" - Patrick Stewart, Extras.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 2:38:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:16:46 -0700, "JAD"
<kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:

>do you argue long windedly for the sake of it ?
>
>"technology changing(decisions being made)" what does this mean to you?
>
>>"the OEMs simply chose not to include a floppy" is there a huge gap in
>>meaning that you felt the need?
>


Nope, just that you're wrong that it has anything to do with
"technology change". The only change is that if you buy a
box that the builder decided not to put a lloppy drive into,
you dont' get one!

Same could be said for a box that has no optical drive or
any other part.
September 28, 2005 2:38:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

would you call 'case design' a change in technology?
would call bios changes, changes in technology?
addition of USB boot devices a change?

sigh be gone with your silliness

"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:o bijj192fju9kfhmeikk6oscn6btjn7mog@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 14:16:46 -0700, "JAD"
> <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:
>
>>do you argue long windedly for the sake of it ?
>>
>>"technology changing(decisions being made)" what does this mean to you?
>>
>>>"the OEMs simply chose not to include a floppy" is there a huge gap in
>>>meaning that you felt the need?
>>
>
>
> Nope, just that you're wrong that it has anything to do with
> "technology change". The only change is that if you buy a
> box that the builder decided not to put a lloppy drive into,
> you dont' get one!
>
> Same could be said for a box that has no optical drive or
> any other part.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 3:28:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 10:58:58 -0700, "JAD"
> <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>I agree, and this is another example of technology changing(decisions being
>>made) and software manufacturers not keeping up.
>
>
> Not really true, technology didn't change, the OEMs simply
> chose not to include a floppy

The reason they could "simply chose not to include a floppy" 'now' vs
'then' is because technology changed sufficiently to enable that decision.

> even though there were clearly
> still uses for them.

There's "clearly still uses" for lots of things, like ISA slots, that don't
necessarily come in the base package, or at all. And the same argument goes
on during all technology changes in all fields with some arguing there are
'clearly still uses' for whatever is being phased out. And sometimes they
never go completely away. After all, you can still buy buggy whips.

>
> I don't use my spoon much when dining, does that mean I'm ok
> with not having one around? No.

A trailer hitch has many uses and is even essential for towing a trailer.
Does that mean every car must automatically come with one? No.

Your analogy fails because, while you try to color it with "don't use...
'much'," a spoon is used routinely and regularly in the normal course of
events. There is, however, no 'routine or regular' use for a floppy in a
modern pre-built computer, during the normal course of events, and while
there may still be 'many uses' for one, just as with a trailer hitch, that
doesn't mean it needs to, or should, be automatically provided.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 4:45:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:25 -0700, "JAD"
<kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:

>would you call 'case design' a change in technology?

Depends on what was changed.
If the change was to not install a side panel, no.

>would call bios changes, changes in technology?

Again, depends on what was changed. If they simply removed
the ability to change FSB, again no.

>addition of USB boot devices a change?

>
>sigh be gone with your silliness


.... could be thinking same thing here.

Omission of a drive is not a technology change, systems
(usually) still support them, users may still have similar
tasks that require one, and there is no alternative with the
universal support. It's not a technology change to fail to
install a drive in order to save ~$8. If it were cheaper to
leave the drive in, if the cases had come with a *free*
floppy drive, they'd be in the cases.
September 28, 2005 4:45:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Kony

There are MANY cases that no longer support a floppy,
the insides have significantly changed in some cases.

bios changes THAT HAVE NOW INCLUDED USB FLASH DRIVES.
who the hell was talking about FSB? we are speaking of things that are going
to put the floppy down for the count. AND FWIW an entire countries economy
will be hit..............

Later
"kony" <spam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:vepjj1lktehte0rcnrn2re1mpktbhmi70i@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 15:42:25 -0700, "JAD"
> <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote:
>
>>would you call 'case design' a change in technology?
>
> Depends on what was changed.
> If the change was to not install a side panel, no.
>
>>would call bios changes, changes in technology?
>
> Again, depends on what was changed. If they simply removed
> the ability to change FSB, again no.
>
>>addition of USB boot devices a change?
>
>>
>>sigh be gone with your silliness
>
>
> ... could be thinking same thing here.
>
> Omission of a drive is not a technology change, systems
> (usually) still support them, users may still have similar
> tasks that require one, and there is no alternative with the
> universal support. It's not a technology change to fail to
> install a drive in order to save ~$8. If it were cheaper to
> leave the drive in, if the cases had come with a *free*
> floppy drive, they'd be in the cases.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 4:56:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:42:00 -0500, David Maynard
<nospam@private.net> wrote:


>> Nobody forces you to have a floppy in your system, but to do
>> without an $8 part then have to make alternate plans just to
>> compensate on a multi-hundred (if not thousand) dollar
>> system is rather pointless except in unique, special purpose
>> systems. I don't recall anyone suggesting to save
>> documents to floppy or try to make it a primary storage
>> device, rather for $8 it's one of those feature of a system
>> that make it more useful and versatile, which is the whole
>> point of a "PC" versus a closed appliance.
>
>Except the vast unwashed majority of typical users don't have the slightest
>idea what it could be used for.
>


Not so sure about that, if anything it's simplicity and
longevity has resulted in it being a most familiar storage
device even to the computer illiterate. To many people,
uploading files to a server for online access, using a
removable flash drive or syncing their portable device are
greek terms.

Granted that's not justification to use it if one has other
alternatives, but even so, there are quite a few
abilities/features/etc of a PC that most users have no idea
of how to apply.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 4:56:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:42:00 -0500, David Maynard
> <nospam@private.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>>>Nobody forces you to have a floppy in your system, but to do
>>>without an $8 part then have to make alternate plans just to
>>>compensate on a multi-hundred (if not thousand) dollar
>>>system is rather pointless except in unique, special purpose
>>>systems. I don't recall anyone suggesting to save
>>>documents to floppy or try to make it a primary storage
>>>device, rather for $8 it's one of those feature of a system
>>>that make it more useful and versatile, which is the whole
>>>point of a "PC" versus a closed appliance.
>>
>>Except the vast unwashed majority of typical users don't have the slightest
>>idea what it could be used for.
>>
>
>
>
> Not so sure about that, if anything it's simplicity and
> longevity has resulted in it being a most familiar storage
> device even to the computer illiterate.

That used to be true when they were forced to use one but no more. Now they
know how to insert a CD and they don't even have to know where or what the
'make it go' file is.

> To many people,
> uploading files to a server for online access, using a
> removable flash drive or syncing their portable device are
> greek terms.

They're certainly not going to put MP3s on their Ipod with a floppy when it
ain't got one. Nor get pictures from their typical camera either.

> Granted that's not justification to use it if one has other
> alternatives, but even so, there are quite a few
> abilities/features/etc of a PC that most users have no idea
> of how to apply.

You think they 'do it' somehow. I can't tell you how many times I've told
someone to simply copy a file over with a floppy and get "oh? How do you do
that?"
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 5:08:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:28:47 -0500, David Maynard
<nospam@private.net> wrote:



>Your analogy fails because, while you try to color it with "don't use...
>'much'," a spoon is used routinely and regularly in the normal course of
>events.

So is a floppy for anyone with more than a basic Windows
experience. Do you have any systems with floppy drive?
What do you think displaces a floppy where one was used
previously?

We could try to argue about "windows" prevalence, in a sort
of "never need a floppy" OS, but it's quite questionable
whether the windows market is already saturated and
alternative OS (and thinner client) use will be growing at
far faster rate.

>There is, however, no 'routine or regular' use for a floppy in a
>modern pre-built computer, during the normal course of events,

Flashing a bios to a newer version "should" be a normal
course of events... unfortunately there aren't enough
safeguards in place to ensure that it is even more
trouble-free.

Floppies are still used in a normal course of events for
many users. People bring floppies to me with files on them.
Many people don't need to transport dozens or more MB of
data, only office files or similar, and while I wouldn't
choose a floppy for that purpose myself if I had an option,
that doesn't change the fact that people will and do use
floppies as their familiarity with them is high.

>and while
>there may still be 'many uses' for one, just as with a trailer hitch, that
>doesn't mean it needs to, or should, be automatically provided.

.... same could be said about many computer features, but
then if you strip away too many then suddenly it's not
nearly so versatile a system, leading to what I mentioned
previously, a closed appliance instead. Not that there's
anything wrong with such a device, indeed such a VCR-like
system would suit many uses/users, but it moves towards the
opposite of the role a PC fills.

You're right though, that it doesn't necessarily mean a
floppy drive should automatically be present, but at the
same time it cannot be assumed that a floppy drive can
automatically be dismissed either. It's an $8 part
(actually less than that, but regardless...) in the context
of a multi-hundred dollar system. I don't know about you
but $8 one way or the other has never swayed my purchase of
any multi-hundred dollar product unless the two alternatives
were _exactly_ the same.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 28, 2005 5:08:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware.homedesigned,alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

kony wrote:

> On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 23:28:47 -0500, David Maynard
> <nospam@private.net> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Your analogy fails because, while you try to color it with "don't use...
>>'much'," a spoon is used routinely and regularly in the normal course of
>>events.
>
>
> So is a floppy for anyone with more than a basic Windows
> experience.

I don't know what you define as "more than a basic windows experience" but
whatever it is it isn't what the vast majority are doing.

> Do you have any systems with floppy drive?

Sure.

> What do you think displaces a floppy where one was used
> previously?

For me or a user who buys a pre-built and who isn't going to be loading an
F6 driver nor dickering around with their partitions nor any of the other,
as you previously put it, 'geek' kind of things?


> We could try to argue about "windows" prevalence, in a sort
> of "never need a floppy" OS, but it's quite questionable
> whether the windows market is already saturated and
> alternative OS (and thinner client) use will be growing at
> far faster rate.

That wasn't the topic. The topic was why so many of the pre-built Windows
machines didn't come with a floppy no more.

>>There is, however, no 'routine or regular' use for a floppy in a
>>modern pre-built computer, during the normal course of events,
>
>
> Flashing a bios to a newer version "should" be a normal
> course of events...

That's debatable. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

> unfortunately there aren't enough
> safeguards in place to ensure that it is even more
> trouble-free.

One good reason to not 'fix' it. But if they do they'll do it with the
newer windows flasher because it's 'simpler' to them.

> Floppies are still used in a normal course of events for
> many users. People bring floppies to me with files on them.
> Many people don't need to transport dozens or more MB of
> data, only office files or similar, and while I wouldn't
> choose a floppy for that purpose myself if I had an option,
> that doesn't change the fact that people will and do use
> floppies as their familiarity with them is high.

And back to the trailer hitch analogy, I can point to a ton of people who
have one too, just as you know people who use the floppy, but that still
doesn't mean they should automatically come with a car. They are not the
majority of users.


>>and while
>>there may still be 'many uses' for one, just as with a trailer hitch, that
>>doesn't mean it needs to, or should, be automatically provided.
>
>
> ... same could be said about many computer features, but
> then if you strip away too many then suddenly it's not
> nearly so versatile a system,

The difference is there's more than a rat's chance in hell those others
will be used by a reasonable number of users.

> leading to what I mentioned
> previously, a closed appliance instead. Not that there's
> anything wrong with such a device, indeed such a VCR-like
> system would suit many uses/users, but it moves towards the
> opposite of the role a PC fills.
>
> You're right though, that it doesn't necessarily mean a
> floppy drive should automatically be present, but at the
> same time it cannot be assumed that a floppy drive can
> automatically be dismissed either. It's an $8 part
> (actually less than that, but regardless...) in the context
> of a multi-hundred dollar system. I don't know about you
> but $8 one way or the other has never swayed my purchase of
> any multi-hundred dollar product unless the two alternatives
> were _exactly_ the same.

It doesn't work that way. You don't include an 8 dollar part, or a 10 cent
part, if there's no reasonable use for it. Otherwise you'd end up with a
million of them and then it isn't an 8 buck difference anymore (not to
mention my other post where I explained how it's more than 8 bucks anyway).
!