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Problem w/Win98 & Hyper Threading P4?

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April 9, 2004 11:37:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
current problem.

I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
(first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.

But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
"MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.

Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
slowly.

Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.

My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
think XP Pro will?)
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 9, 2004 11:58:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

289425 wrote:
>
> I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
> current problem.
>
> I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
> an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
> problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
> repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
> partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
> (first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
>
> But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
> forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
> later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
> but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
> floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
> into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
> "MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
> to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
>
> Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
> have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
> slowly.
>
> Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
>
> My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
> slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
> Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
> Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
> think XP Pro will?)

I seem to recall that win98 has a problem with processors faster than
around 1.8G. I don't remember the details but I belive there was a fix
for it. That may not be your problem but it might be worth digging it up
on google.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 10, 2004 12:13:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sal Monella wrote:
>
> 289425 wrote:
> >
> > I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
> > current problem.
> >
> > I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
> > an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
> > problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
> > repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
> > partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
> > (first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
> >
> > But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
> > forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
> > later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
> > but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
> > floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
> > into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
> > "MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
> > to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
> >
> > Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
> > have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
> > slowly.
> >
> > Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
> >
> > My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
> > slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
> > Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
> > Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
> > think XP Pro will?)
>
> I seem to recall that win98 has a problem with processors faster than
> around 1.8G. I don't remember the details but I belive there was a fix
> for it. That may not be your problem but it might be worth digging it up
> on google.

Here's what I thinking of, it's 2.1G and faster.
http://www.annoyances.org/exec/forum/win98/t1036524908
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;312108

I've heard the patch is a pain to get from M$ but it can be found here:
http://www.pyramidcs.com/download/Patches/NDIS_Win98/

Read the hotfix.txt
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 10, 2004 3:38:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

You're kind of swimming upstream here. Win 98 CANNOT use more than 512 MB
of RAM or you get crashes. And Win 98 cannot recognize harddrives that are
larger than 137 GB.

--
DaveW



"289425" <JSmith@VAColony.com> wrote in message
news:00040309152156.OUI01.JSmith@VAColony.com...
> I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
> current problem.
>
> I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
> an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
> problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
> repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
> partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
> (first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
>
> But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
> forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
> later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
> but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
> floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
> into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
> "MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
> to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
>
> Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
> have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
> slowly.
>
> Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
>
> My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
> slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
> Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
> Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
> think XP Pro will?)
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 10, 2004 3:38:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <%tGdc.111486$JO3.78874@attbi_s04>, DaveW <none@zero.org> wrote:
>You're kind of swimming upstream here. Win 98 CANNOT use more than 512 MB
>of RAM or you get crashes. And Win 98 cannot recognize harddrives that are
>larger than 137 GB.
>
>--
>DaveW
>
>
>
>"289425" <JSmith@VAColony.com> wrote in message
>news:00040309152156.OUI01.JSmith@VAColony.com...
>> I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
>> current problem.
>>
>> I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
>> an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
>> problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
>> repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
>> partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
>> (first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
>>
>> But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
>> forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
>> later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
>> but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
>> floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
>> into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
>> "MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
>> to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
>>
>> Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
>> have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
>> slowly.
>>
>> Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
>>
>> My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
>> slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
>> Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
>> Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
>> think XP Pro will?)
>>
>
>


Since w/98 never used multiple processors in any way, I don't expect
it will see them on a HT pentium. Doesn't that show up as twp CPUs in
an OS that _can_ run MP ? I don't know if this is slowing your w/98
down.

--
Al Dykes
-----------
adykes at p a n i x . c o m
April 10, 2004 7:22:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

289425 wrote:

>
>
> But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
> forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
> later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
> but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
> floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
> into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
> "MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
> to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
>
> Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
> have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
> slowly.
>


It's not the HT being diabled. I'm running a 2.8C P4 with 512MB and 98 runs
fine.

--

Stacey
April 10, 2004 10:51:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"DaveW" <none@zero.org> wrote:

> You're kind of swimming upstream here. Win 98 CANNOT use more than
> 512 MB of RAM or you get crashes. And Win 98 cannot recognize
> harddrives that are larger than 137 GB.

Reread my post. I have RAM limited to 500 MB, and only the first gig of
the large drive was Primary partition, FAT32. The rest of the drive
formatted in NFTS is not readable, nor recognized by 98, which is just
fine. Win98 was installed on the first gig.
April 10, 2004 10:51:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sal Monella,

THANK YOU VERY MUCH!

This is EXACTLY what is happening with me. I wondered where this was
coming up in my install, and tonight after reinstalling 98, I was step
by step singly loading the Intel mobo drivers with a Ghost backup in
between each one. It was after I installed the onboard LAN drivers that
the trouble began.

Reading the article on the Microsoft website about hotfixes I noticed
confirmation of something I also learned tonight doing the installs
again. The 98SE drivers database misreads hotfix files vs original
release versions. Specifically, when loading from CD the mobo's onboard
audio drivers I repeatedly was notified that "a file being copied is
older than the file currently on your disk. It is recommended that you
keep this file". I wondered about that as this was still 98SE before any
updating online. So how could the file coming with this new mobo be
older?

Examination showed that in fact the drivers on the mobo CD were LATER
than the ones currently installed, but the 98SE driver loading program
misread it as the opposite. Apart from ones own examination of the
version of each file, there is another indication which the article
talks about. When viewing the Properties of 98 Hotfix files, there is an
additional line of info on the Version tab named "Special Build
Description" that is set to the value "QFE."

I made sure all the QFE's replaced the original and now audio is happy,
too. But I'll forever be skeptical about such warnings from now on.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 10, 2004 6:03:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JSmith@VAColony.com wrote:
>
> Sal Monella,
>
> THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
>
> This is EXACTLY what is happening with me. I wondered where this was
> coming up in my install, and tonight after reinstalling 98, I was step
> by step singly loading the Intel mobo drivers with a Ghost backup in
> between each one. It was after I installed the onboard LAN drivers that
> the trouble began.

I'm glad to hear it worked. I'm planning to upgrade a win98 box soon and
I'll probably run in to this problem with it.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 10, 2004 7:35:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:37:40 GMT, JSmith@VAColony.com (289425) wrote:

Win98 may not be a hyperthreading OS. It is like ancient history.

>I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
>current problem.
>
>I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
>an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
>problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
>repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
>partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
>(first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
>
>But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
>forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
>later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
>but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
>floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
>into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
>"MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
>to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
>
>Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
>have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
>slowly.
>
>Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
>
>My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
>slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
>Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
>Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
>think XP Pro will?)
April 11, 2004 8:41:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Well, I spoke too soon.

The file refuses to install saying "wrong Windows version".
Looking at the files properties it says "Windows NT".
April 11, 2004 8:41:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JSmith@VAColony.com wrote:

> Well, I spoke too soon.
>
> The file refuses to install saying "wrong Windows version".
> Looking at the files properties it says "Windows NT".


I'd be tempted to try removing ram down to 512Mb and see what happens. Doing
it in software might not be doing what you think it is? I -know- 98SE on a
2.8 P4 with 512 MB works fine.
--

Stacey
April 12, 2004 1:05:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> I'd be tempted to try removing ram down to 512Mb and see what happens.
<

Unfortunately I have one gig sticks.

I may have to give up on 98 on this rig and stick with XP.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 12, 2004 3:30:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JSmith@VAColony.com wrote:
>
> > I'd be tempted to try removing ram down to 512Mb and see what happens.
> <
>
> Unfortunately I have one gig sticks.
>
> I may have to give up on 98 on this rig and stick with XP.

Or put Linux on it.
April 12, 2004 3:30:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Sal Monella wrote:

> JSmith@VAColony.com wrote:
>>
>> > I'd be tempted to try removing ram down to 512Mb and see what happens.
>> <
>>
>> Unfortunately I have one gig sticks.
>>
>> I may have to give up on 98 on this rig and stick with XP.
>
> Or put Linux on it.

Well I wasn't going to say that but....
--

Stacey, who wouldn't connect any windows machine to the internet.
April 13, 2004 4:31:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:51:43 GMT, JSmith@VAColony.com wrote:

>Sal Monella,
>
>THANK YOU VERY MUCH!
>
>This is EXACTLY what is happening with me. I wondered where this was
>coming up in my install, and tonight after reinstalling 98, I was step
>by step singly loading the Intel mobo drivers with a Ghost backup in
>between each one. It was after I installed the onboard LAN drivers that
>the trouble began.
>
>Reading the article on the Microsoft website about hotfixes I noticed
>confirmation of something I also learned tonight doing the installs
>again. The 98SE drivers database misreads hotfix files vs original
>release versions. Specifically, when loading from CD the mobo's onboard
>audio drivers I repeatedly was notified that "a file being copied is
>older than the file currently on your disk. It is recommended that you
>keep this file". I wondered about that as this was still 98SE before any
>updating online. So how could the file coming with this new mobo be
>older?
>
>Examination showed that in fact the drivers on the mobo CD were LATER
>than the ones currently installed, but the 98SE driver loading program
>misread it as the opposite. Apart from ones own examination of the
>version of each file, there is another indication which the article
>talks about. When viewing the Properties of 98 Hotfix files, there is an
>additional line of info on the Version tab named "Special Build
>Description" that is set to the value "QFE."
>
>I made sure all the QFE's replaced the original and now audio is happy,
>too. But I'll forever be skeptical about such warnings from now on.

Thank you very much, for posting the final solution to your problems.
(I wish more people did that more often. It provides valuable info to
us regular lurkers.)

ancra
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 14, 2004 4:55:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"DaveW" <none@zero.org> wrote in message
news:%tGdc.111486$JO3.78874@attbi_s04...
> You're kind of swimming upstream here. Win 98 CANNOT use more than 512 MB
> of RAM or you get crashes.
> --

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=304943
Quote:
"Windows Me and Windows 98 are not designed to handle more than 1 GB of RAM.
More than 1 GB can lead to potential system instability."

I think that there are a number of problems with Win98 and your set-up that
are combining to give you problems. Too much RAM, too fast CPU and too large
a HDD.

I think you would be better off not running Win98 on this setup.

Adam S
April 15, 2004 12:06:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Adam S wrote:

>
> "DaveW" <none@zero.org> wrote in message
> news:%tGdc.111486$JO3.78874@attbi_s04...
>> You're kind of swimming upstream here. Win 98 CANNOT use more than 512
>> MB of RAM or you get crashes.
>> --
>
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=304943
> Quote:
> "Windows Me and Windows 98 are not designed to handle more than 1 GB of
> RAM. More than 1 GB can lead to potential system instability."
>
> I think that there are a number of problems with Win98 and your set-up
> that are combining to give you problems. Too much RAM, too fast CPU and
> too large a HDD.
>


"Too fast a CPU" isn't the problem and neither is the HD. It's the ram
that's the issue and I have to wonder why he needs 2 gig of ram anyway!

--

Stacey
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
April 15, 2004 12:42:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Memory fix for more than 512Mb.
Edit system.ini
find line vcache
add Max file cache = 524288
save file
restart system

Last Boy Scout wrote:

> On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:37:40 GMT, JSmith@VAColony.com (289425) wrote:
>
> Win98 may not be a hyperthreading OS. It is like ancient history.
>
> >I've been building my own pc's for 12 years now but am stumped with a
> >current problem.
> >
> >I'm trying to set up a dual boot Win98SE & XP Pro on a P4 2.8 HT using
> >an Intel GPFL mobo. I previously ran XP Pro for a month with no
> >problems, then realized I needed to dual boot and so wiped the HD,
> >repartitioned and formatted and began this dual install. I have
> >partitioned a 200G WD drive so that one gig is FAT32 for the W98 OS
> >(first partition on drive), and the remainder of the drive NFTS for XP.
> >
> >But the W98 install has problems, and once installed the loading takes
> >forever and often hangs. By "forever" I mean get up, go away, come back
> >later and maybe it has progressed, maybe not. I do have 2 gigs of RAM,
> >but at the point in the 98 install when the initial setup done from boot
> >floppy is complete and it is ready to reboot from the hard drive, I go
> >into the system.ini file and in the [386Enh] section add the line
> >"MaxPhysPage=1F3FF" which limits RAM to 500 megs. Still after 3 attempts
> >to install 98SE the pc hangs during the OS loading.
> >
> >Then I wondered if the Hyper Threading could be a problem for 98 and
> >have disabled that in the BIOS. But still the OS will hang or load very
> >slowly.
> >
> >Any ideas? Thoughts appreciated.
> >
> >My next plan is to take the 15 Gig drive, currently primary channel
> >slave, and repartition it as a primary-active, and make it the Primary
> >Master and set up 98 on it. I believe I can install XP pro on the 200
> >Gig connected as Primary slave? (I know W98 won't run from there but I
> >think XP Pro will?)
!