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Virtual Memory !!

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 15, 2004 12:17:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
talking about window98!!
Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..

1)
In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
memory about 2:1???!!
What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
virual memory should be 1M or 4M??

<quote>
The amount of hard drive space you allocate for virtual memory is
important. If you allocate too little, you will get "Out of Memory"
errors. If you find that you need to keep increasing the size of the
virtual memory, you probably are also finding that your system is
sluggish and accesses the hard drive constantly. In that case, you
should consider buying more RAM to keep the ratio between RAM and
virtual memory about 2:1. Some applications enjoy having lots of
virtual memory space but do not access it very much. In that case,
large paging files work well
</quote>


2) Also here the author saying if you want to improve the performance
then the
minimum and maximum size of the VM file identical??

What does that mean? and why.. I could not understand what he is
trying to say

<quote>
One trick that can improve the performance of virtual memory
(especially when large amounts of virtual memory are needed) is to
make the minimum and maximum sizes of the virtual memory file
identical. This forces the operating system to allocate the entire
paging file when you start the machine. That keeps the paging file
from having to grow while programs are running, which improves
performance. Many video applications recommend this technique to avoid
pauses while reading or writing video information between hard disk
and tape
</quote>


3) How can I control the VM in windowXP.

Thanks alot

More about : virtual memory

April 15, 2004 1:01:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"esara" <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd7d27e7.0404150717.513acf3a@posting.google.com...
> Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
> talking about window98!!
> Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..
>
> 1)
> In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
> memory about 2:1???!!
> What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
> virual memory should be 1M or 4M??
>

Taking this literally, I would say 2 parts RAM to every 1 part VM. So that
would mean 2MB of RAM is best paired w/ 1MB of VM (I'm not commenting on
whether this is a good ratio, I have my own opinions, just explaining *his*
thinking).

> <quote>
> The amount of hard drive space you allocate for virtual memory is
> important. If you allocate too little, you will get "Out of Memory"
> errors. If you find that you need to keep increasing the size of the
> virtual memory, you probably are also finding that your system is
> sluggish and accesses the hard drive constantly. In that case, you
> should consider buying more RAM to keep the ratio between RAM and
> virtual memory about 2:1. Some applications enjoy having lots of
> virtual memory space but do not access it very much. In that case,
> large paging files work well
> </quote>
>
>
> 2) Also here the author saying if you want to improve the performance
> then the
> minimum and maximum size of the VM file identical??
>
> What does that mean? and why.. I could not understand what he is
> trying to say
>

By making them the same size, then once allocated, that's it. No more
resizing will take place, thus no more performance hits from the resizing of
that paging file, and far less likely to be fragmented. Frankly, overblown,
the number of times the file is actually reallocated (expanded) is not that
often, it's not as if this is happening constantly.

> <quote>
> One trick that can improve the performance of virtual memory
> (especially when large amounts of virtual memory are needed) is to
> make the minimum and maximum sizes of the virtual memory file
> identical. This forces the operating system to allocate the entire
> paging file when you start the machine. That keeps the paging file
> from having to grow while programs are running, which improves
> performance. Many video applications recommend this technique to avoid
> pauses while reading or writing video information between hard disk
> and tape
> </quote>
>
>
> 3) How can I control the VM in windowXP.
>

Best thing to do is get LOTS of RAM (1GB or more), then disable the paging
file, which can be done from System Properties. (you can also change the max
and min there).

Please realize that this statement is going to draw the VM/paging file
*experts* crazing, and we will shortly hear various cries as to why this is
a bad idea, the usually litany. But as long as you have *sufficient*
memory, you do not need a paging file! In fact, the best paging file is NO
paging file. So if you're using XP and have gobs of RAM, and disable the
paging file, all the paging file "futzing" magically goes PUFF! You can
then completely forget about it, it's not worth spending two more seconds
thought.

Hmm, I think can hear them typing away already.

HTH

Jim

> Thanks alot
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 15, 2004 3:53:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"esara" <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fd7d27e7.0404150717.513acf3a@posting.google.com...
> Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
> talking about window98!!
> Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..
>

Well I think that article over-simplified the VM settings a bit. There is
no magical number or magical formula. I have learned through years of
experience that it is tough to get consumer grade Windows OS to use more
than 512MB of memory, total (meaning physical RAM plus swap file). In fact,
Windows 98 (&ME) will choke on 1GB of RAM, unless you tweak the registry a
bit. Generally speaking, the more RAM installed, the smaller your swap file
needs to be. Add enough RAM, and you might even be able to turn VM off.
But then again, some really strange things can happen if your system runs
out of memory. So it's not usually advisable to set your swap file really
small or to turn off VM. You also have to consider hard drive space,
especially if hard drive space is limited. For windows, it's best not to
drop below 1GB of free hard drive space. If you are right AT 1GB of
remaining hard drive space, cranking up the swap file to 1GB is not a good
idea (for example).

It's almost always a good idea to choose a rather "large" swap file and set
the minimum and maximum sizes to the same number. For example, if you have
128MB of RAM on Windows 98, you might want to set minimum 512MB and maximum
512MB for a swap file. If you upgrade to 512MB of RAM, you migth be able to
turn your swap file down to minimum/maximum of 256MB. So I don't know where
they got the 2:1 ratio. Seems like someone just made that up out of thin
air.

In windows xp, the swap file is called a paging file. Start, control panel,
system, advanced tab, performance settings, advanced tab, virtual memory.

On a side note, it's always better to add more RAM than to depend too much
on virtual memory. -Dave
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 15, 2004 4:23:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Thank you for responding.

So Jim this will be the same senario as in the past with PIV on 400Mhz. FBS
and using PC-133 SDARAM.

I bought a ASUS P4C800 Motherboard with INTEL 875P Chipset ( called
Canterwood, i think).

The manual says on 800 Mhz FBS configuration 266/333/400 Mhz DDR can be
used.

"Jim" <null@null.com> wrote in message
news:%lyfc.4905$Yf6.1943@fed1read07...
> "esara" <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:fd7d27e7.0404150717.513acf3a@posting.google.com...
> > Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
> > talking about window98!!
> > Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..
> >
> > 1)
> > In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
> > memory about 2:1???!!
> > What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
> > virual memory should be 1M or 4M??
> >
>
> Taking this literally, I would say 2 parts RAM to every 1 part VM. So
that
> would mean 2MB of RAM is best paired w/ 1MB of VM (I'm not commenting on
> whether this is a good ratio, I have my own opinions, just explaining
*his*
> thinking).
>
> > <quote>
> > The amount of hard drive space you allocate for virtual memory is
> > important. If you allocate too little, you will get "Out of Memory"
> > errors. If you find that you need to keep increasing the size of the
> > virtual memory, you probably are also finding that your system is
> > sluggish and accesses the hard drive constantly. In that case, you
> > should consider buying more RAM to keep the ratio between RAM and
> > virtual memory about 2:1. Some applications enjoy having lots of
> > virtual memory space but do not access it very much. In that case,
> > large paging files work well
> > </quote>
> >
> >
> > 2) Also here the author saying if you want to improve the performance
> > then the
> > minimum and maximum size of the VM file identical??
> >
> > What does that mean? and why.. I could not understand what he is
> > trying to say
> >
>
> By making them the same size, then once allocated, that's it. No more
> resizing will take place, thus no more performance hits from the resizing
of
> that paging file, and far less likely to be fragmented. Frankly,
overblown,
> the number of times the file is actually reallocated (expanded) is not
that
> often, it's not as if this is happening constantly.
>
> > <quote>
> > One trick that can improve the performance of virtual memory
> > (especially when large amounts of virtual memory are needed) is to
> > make the minimum and maximum sizes of the virtual memory file
> > identical. This forces the operating system to allocate the entire
> > paging file when you start the machine. That keeps the paging file
> > from having to grow while programs are running, which improves
> > performance. Many video applications recommend this technique to avoid
> > pauses while reading or writing video information between hard disk
> > and tape
> > </quote>
> >
> >
> > 3) How can I control the VM in windowXP.
> >
>
> Best thing to do is get LOTS of RAM (1GB or more), then disable the paging
> file, which can be done from System Properties. (you can also change the
max
> and min there).
>
> Please realize that this statement is going to draw the VM/paging file
> *experts* crazing, and we will shortly hear various cries as to why this
is
> a bad idea, the usually litany. But as long as you have *sufficient*
> memory, you do not need a paging file! In fact, the best paging file is
NO
> paging file. So if you're using XP and have gobs of RAM, and disable the
> paging file, all the paging file "futzing" magically goes PUFF! You can
> then completely forget about it, it's not worth spending two more seconds
> thought.
>
> Hmm, I think can hear them typing away already.
>
> HTH
>
> Jim
>
> > Thanks alot
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 15, 2004 9:48:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

esara wrote:
> Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
> talking about window98!!
> Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..
>
> 1)
> In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
> memory about 2:1???!!
> What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
> virual memory should be 1M or 4M??
>
> <quote>
> The amount of hard drive space you allocate for virtual memory is
> important. If you allocate too little, you will get "Out of Memory"
> errors. If you find that you need to keep increasing the size of the
> virtual memory, you probably are also finding that your system is
> sluggish and accesses the hard drive constantly. In that case, you
> should consider buying more RAM to keep the ratio between RAM and
> virtual memory about 2:1. Some applications enjoy having lots of
> virtual memory space but do not access it very much. In that case,
> large paging files work well
> </quote>

To me, this information sounds way out of date. It used to be
recommended that swap space should be about twice the size of the
physical memory (thus virtual memory is three times the size, virtual
memory = physical + swap). This was all well and good when 32MB of RAM
cost the same as a new 7-Series BMW, but now its pointless. If your
machine swaps, buy more RAM.

Personally, I'd only allocate a maximum of disk space the same size as
my physical RAM just as an emergency measure until I could get to the shops.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 15, 2004 10:13:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"esara" <esara123@hotmail.com> wrote...
> Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
> talking about window98!!
> Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..

There are a LOT of opinions out there, and most of them are valid. Look through
them and make a decision based on your needs.


> 1)
> In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
> memory about 2:1???!!
> What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
> virual memory should be 1M or 4M??

If RAM is 2M, virtual memory is 4M, using this formula.


> 2) Also here the author saying if you want to improve the performance
> then the minimum and maximum size of the VM file identical??
>
> What does that mean? and why.. I could not understand what he is
> trying to say

The concept is valid. Instead of dynamically changing the size of the virtual
memory file, a fixed-size file is created and remains in a single spot on the
HD.

In the Performance settings tab, you will see an option to change the default
handling of the virtual memory. There are 2 settings involved: Initial size
and Maximum size. In your example above, set them both to 2M, then reboot.


> 3) How can I control the VM in windowXP.

Control Panel | Performance and Maintenance | System | Advanced | Performance
Options | Advanced | Virtual Memory

Click the Custom Options, set the size you want, Apply, and reboot.

If you have 1 GB of RAM, 1 GB of virtual memory should be adequate; with 512 MB,
try 768 MB or 1 GB. With less than 512 MB, try 2.5 times actual RAM (instead of
the 2x quoted above).
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 16, 2004 12:29:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 15 Apr 2004 08:17:24 -0700 As truth resonates honesty
esara123@hotmail.com (esara) wrote :

>Hi I have 3 questions about Virtual memory.. in this artical they are
>talking about window98!!
>Any heelp would be very much appreciate it..
>
>1)
>In this artical the author saying the ration between RAM and Virtual
>memory about 2:1???!!
Nothing.It is and always has ben bogus for win9X/ME.

>What does that mean?? if I have a RAM of size 2M for example.. the the
>virual memory should be 1M or 4M??
Nope.See above.

><quote>
>The amount of hard drive space you allocate for virtual memory is
>important. If you allocate too little, you will get "Out of Memory"
>errors. If you find that you need to keep increasing the size of the
>virtual memory, you probably are also finding that your system is
>sluggish and accesses the hard drive constantly. In that case, you
>should consider buying more RAM to keep the ratio between RAM and
>virtual memory about 2:1. Some applications enjoy having lots of
>virtual memory space but do not access it very much. In that case,
>large paging files work well
></quote>

Only if you set a fixed maximum,which is never needed.

>
>
>2) Also here the author saying if you want to improve the performance
>then the
>minimum and maximum size of the VM file identical??

Incorrect.A maximum is not required.

>
>What does that mean? and why.. I could not understand what he is
>trying to say

Click here,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/easy.html

HTH :) 



--
Free Windows/PC help,
http://www.geocities.com/sheppola/trouble.html
email shepATpartyheld.de
Free songs to download and,"BURN" :o )
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/8/nomessiahsmusic.htm
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 16, 2004 2:03:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Jim" <null@null.com> wrote...
>
> Please realize that this statement is going to draw the VM/paging file
> *experts* crazing, and we will shortly hear various cries as to why this is
> a bad idea, the usually litany. But as long as you have *sufficient*
> memory, you do not need a paging file! In fact, the best paging file is NO
> paging file. So if you're using XP and have gobs of RAM, and disable the
> paging file, all the paging file "futzing" magically goes PUFF! You can
> then completely forget about it, it's not worth spending two more seconds
> thought.
>
> Hmm, I think can hear them typing away already.

As always, "it depends"...

If the computer is used only for e-mail, web surfing, and writing memos in Word,
you may be right. However, if you use Photoshop a lot, and work on multiple pix
and/or layers at a time, you can rapidly run out of RAM as Photoshop stores all
that undo data. Granted, Photoshop also has some internal memory
management/swapping ability, but that's probably beyond the scope of discussion
for basic pagefile setup... :-)

I have 1 GB RAM, and the pagefile is accessed occasionally (I can tell EXACTLY
when, because it's on a separate, noisier HD [of equal performance as the boot
drive]; at that's all that drive is used for, other than manual data backup).
It doesn't happen often under light loads, but is pretty consistent when doing
heavy Photoshop work...
April 16, 2004 2:03:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John R Weiss" <jrweiss98155@.comNOSPAMcast.net> wrote in message
news:4FDfc.47930$rg5.98077@attbi_s52...
> "Jim" <null@null.com> wrote...
> >
> > Please realize that this statement is going to draw the VM/paging file
> > *experts* crazing, and we will shortly hear various cries as to why this
is
> > a bad idea, the usually litany. But as long as you have *sufficient*
> > memory, you do not need a paging file! In fact, the best paging file is
NO
> > paging file. So if you're using XP and have gobs of RAM, and disable
the
> > paging file, all the paging file "futzing" magically goes PUFF! You can
> > then completely forget about it, it's not worth spending two more
seconds
> > thought.
> >
> > Hmm, I think can hear them typing away already.
>
> As always, "it depends"...
>
> If the computer is used only for e-mail, web surfing, and writing memos in
Word,
> you may be right. However, if you use Photoshop a lot, and work on
multiple pix
> and/or layers at a time, you can rapidly run out of RAM as Photoshop
stores all
> that undo data. Granted, Photoshop also has some internal memory
> management/swapping ability, but that's probably beyond the scope of
discussion
> for basic pagefile setup... :-)
>
> I have 1 GB RAM, and the pagefile is accessed occasionally (I can tell
EXACTLY
> when, because it's on a separate, noisier HD [of equal performance as the
boot
> drive]; at that's all that drive is used for, other than manual data
backup).
> It doesn't happen often under light loads, but is pretty consistent when
doing
> heavy Photoshop work...
>

Thanx, John, you're absolutely right, Photoshop and similar memory hogging
applications can easily exhaust RAM. That's why I always chose my words
VERY carefully. If you're using such applications and they need more than
the available RAM, then by definition, you do NOT have sufficient RAM!
That's the definition of *sufficient* RAM, not needing more than you have!

I'm being a bit nit-piky, I admit, but that's why the qualification of "it
depends" does not apply. There may be a 1001 reasons that you do not have
sufficient RAM, everything from Photoshop, to an OS that can't handle more
than 512MB of RAM (Win98?), to "I can't afford it", if so, you don't
qualify. If however, everything you do can fit into the available RAM
(i.e., you have *sufficient* RAM), you do not need a paging file.

Jim
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b } Memory
April 16, 2004 4:28:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Jim" <null@null.com> wrote...
>
> Thanx, John, you're absolutely right, Photoshop and similar memory hogging
> applications can easily exhaust RAM. That's why I always chose my words
> VERY carefully. If you're using such applications and they need more than
> the available RAM, then by definition, you do NOT have sufficient RAM!
> That's the definition of *sufficient* RAM, not needing more than you have!

I guess it's a matter of perspective...

Since the OP asked even about the meaning of the suggested 2:1 pagefile:RAM
ratio, I suspect he would not be happy with a setup where he found out
incrementally that he didn't have enough RAM because another app would fail.
That's one reason why general guidelines are useful for those trying to learn --
they have a reasonable baseline for their current equipment when they can't
readily throw in another couple sticks of RAM...
January 26, 2009 11:11:49 PM

i am having the same trouble and dont know what to do not clued up on computers just love playing om pogo game site but some of the games dont load are i det thrown out half way tho playing for no reason plz help and tell me what i can do i have windows xp home
!