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AMD CPU & Bad Behavior

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 4:44:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've been dinking around with a new motherboard/cpu combo for almost 2 weeks
now. I haven't built a PC in quite a while, so my knowledge is a little bit
out of date. Hopefully, someone can offer some thoughts on what might be
happening.

I purchased a Chaintech 7VIF4 & AMD XP 2600+ combo. I popped in 256M PNY
PC2700 DDR333 modules (Samsung) and nothing else. 2 new 80mb WD HD's and a
Pioneer DVD-RW. It ran great right out of the box but when I looked at the
data from Sandra Pro, it was saying it was a 2200+ @ 1.5GHz. I found the
jumpers that set the FSB and found they were set at only 133MHz. So I set
them to 166MHz and Sandra now reported it correctly. But the system was
anything but stable. Random reboots, lock-ups, application freezes, and bad
CD/DVD writes. It even froze right in the middle of a CD write although
Nero was still clocking the duration time. Very strange. So I bought a
good quality power supply thinking that was the problem. Still the same. I
swapped/removed memory chips in different combinations to see if the memory
was at fault. No luck there either. I used various diagnostic apps to test
MB and Memory and no problems. Even my video encodes were getting
corrupted. CPU temp was at 60-70C with a Thermaltake CPU fan. About 5C
cooler without the side panel installed but still unstable.

So I put the jumpers back to 133MHz and it's rock solid again. I've been
processing graphics and video for 3 days straight and not a single issue.
CPU temp is 47C after constant load. Although everything now runs great, I
didn't buy a 1.5GHz CPU. It takes a video processing job 4hrs @ 1.5GHz vs.
3hrs @ 2.1GHz.

Anyone care to suggest what the most likely problem is? Motherboard? CPU?
Both? Maybe the fan? Any words or suggestions would be great. I'm sure
that 60-70C operating temp is far beyond the limits of a normal CPU. And
the fan/sink appears to be operating just fine.

Thanks for any help......

More about : amd cpu bad behavior

Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 8:10:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I've been doing quite a bit of reading of past postings regarding CPU temps.
It seems that my problems might just possibly be an inefficient CPU cooler.
The processor is a AMD 2600+ Barton and the fan is a Thermaltake Volcano 7.
The fan is rated for AMD XP's up to 2800+. I did some tests and here's what
I found (all open case panel and room temp is 76F, reported from Sandra
2004):

@ 133MHz
Idle: 39C board, 54C CPU
Load: 45C board, 59C CPU

@ 166MHz
Idle: 43C board, 57C CPU
Load: 48C board, 66C CPU

When I switched to 166MHz, Windows 2K started up but it auto-rebooted about
a minute later when I attempted to launch Sandra 2004. An interesting thing
occured when I tried an experiment with the fan. I turned it 180 degrees on
top of the CPU in order to position the temp sensor (looks like a little
diode) down and away from the power supply. When I ran it at 133MHz, the
peak temps were 61C board, 69C CPU. That was 10C higher than when oriented
in the opposite direction. When I turned it back, temps went right back
down to normal. Hmmmm.

I wish I knew of a software tool that could serve as a 'stress test' so that
I could determine at what point failures occur. I also suppose there's a
possibility that the memory can't handle the 166MHz but they are both DDR333
PC2700. But they would both have to be bad/incompatable yet work fine at
133MHz .

Any thoughts or input regarding these temps? I'll appreciate anything
offered.

Thanks....
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 10:42:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Russ M." <acid_maltxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2q1507Fq7iesU1@uni-berlin.de...
> I've been dinking around with a new motherboard/cpu combo for almost 2
weeks
> now. I haven't built a PC in quite a while, so my knowledge is a little
bit
> out of date. Hopefully, someone can offer some thoughts on what might be
> happening.
>
> I purchased a Chaintech 7VIF4 & AMD XP 2600+ combo. I popped in 256M PNY
> PC2700 DDR333 modules (Samsung) and nothing else. 2 new 80mb WD HD's and
a
> Pioneer DVD-RW. It ran great right out of the box but when I looked at
the
> data from Sandra Pro, it was saying it was a 2200+ @ 1.5GHz. I found the
> jumpers that set the FSB and found they were set at only 133MHz. So I set
> them to 166MHz and Sandra now reported it correctly. But the system was
> anything but stable. Random reboots, lock-ups, application freezes, and
bad
> CD/DVD writes. It even froze right in the middle of a CD write although
> Nero was still clocking the duration time. Very strange. So I bought a
> good quality power supply thinking that was the problem. Still the same.
I
> swapped/removed memory chips in different combinations to see if the
memory
> was at fault. No luck there either. I used various diagnostic apps to
test
> MB and Memory and no problems. Even my video encodes were getting
> corrupted. CPU temp was at 60-70C with a Thermaltake CPU fan. About 5C
> cooler without the side panel installed but still unstable.
>
> So I put the jumpers back to 133MHz and it's rock solid again. I've been
> processing graphics and video for 3 days straight and not a single issue.
> CPU temp is 47C after constant load. Although everything now runs great,
I
> didn't buy a 1.5GHz CPU. It takes a video processing job 4hrs @ 1.5GHz
vs.
> 3hrs @ 2.1GHz.
>
> Anyone care to suggest what the most likely problem is? Motherboard?
CPU?
> Both? Maybe the fan? Any words or suggestions would be great. I'm sure
> that 60-70C operating temp is far beyond the limits of a normal CPU. And
> the fan/sink appears to be operating just fine.
>

I think you answered your own question. 60-70C is WAY beyond normal
operating temperature. Reinstall the heatsink with good thermal compound.
45C idle and 55C max would be about right. At 70C, of course you are going
to have instability problems. -Dave
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 10:58:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>So I put the jumpers back to 133MHz and it's rock solid again. I've been
>processing graphics and video for 3 days straight and not a single issue.
>CPU temp is 47C after constant load. Although everything now runs great, I
>didn't buy a 1.5GHz CPU. It takes a video processing job 4hrs @ 1.5GHz vs.
>3hrs @ 2.1GHz.

I'm running over half a dozen 2500+ chips at 3200+. None of them get
over 52C. I have no doubt you have a heat problem.
1. Use thermal compound between the HS and CPU the size of a grain of
rice.
2. Even the retail heat sink is pretty good if you put a fan on it
with over 25cfm of air flow.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 10:58:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Where can I get thermal compound? Are they created equal (type/brandwise)?

"AndrewJ" <andrewj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:t96nj0tg1mcf2vk9rkjdo7jvftf719iv51@4ax.com...
>
>
> >So I put the jumpers back to 133MHz and it's rock solid again. I've been
> >processing graphics and video for 3 days straight and not a single issue.
> >CPU temp is 47C after constant load. Although everything now runs great,
I
> >didn't buy a 1.5GHz CPU. It takes a video processing job 4hrs @ 1.5GHz
vs.
> >3hrs @ 2.1GHz.
>
> I'm running over half a dozen 2500+ chips at 3200+. None of them get
> over 52C. I have no doubt you have a heat problem.
> 1. Use thermal compound between the HS and CPU the size of a grain of
> rice.
> 2. Even the retail heat sink is pretty good if you put a fan on it
> with over 25cfm of air flow.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 11:21:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>Where can I get thermal compound? Are they created equal (type/brandwise)?
>
Any local PC shop will have it. Even some of the bigger stores do,
just check their website to see. I have tried 5 different types and
all work the same. Some say "oh you must get this brand or that", but
I think that's all voodoo.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 11:21:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Thanks! I got some "Arctic Silver" at CompUSA. I'm hopeful this will be
the answer.

I'm left with one last question though. The heat sink/fan has a round piece
of plastic (?) film where it contacts the CPU. On mine, it's all burned up
where the edges of the CPU made contact. But there is a tiny piece left
where the center of the CPU meets it. Should I scrape this plastic/film
away before putting the paste down? I seem to recall reading some cautions
about using both. But I may have misunderstood it. If I do need to scrape
it away, would it be best to scrape all of it away across the entire heat
sink?

Thanks for all the help!! It's been a great learning op...



"AndrewJ" <andrewj@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:hl7nj051niak2d1t74omgsioj8b0qhkqlp@4ax.com...
>
>
> >Where can I get thermal compound? Are they created equal
(type/brandwise)?
> >
> Any local PC shop will have it. Even some of the bigger stores do,
> just check their website to see. I have tried 5 different types and
> all work the same. Some say "oh you must get this brand or that", but
> I think that's all voodoo.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 5, 2004 11:21:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Looks like I got myself a bit too excited about this new development. :)  I
should have held my tongue and just did a little bit more research on my
own. I found the website listed on the little syringe of Arctic Silver.
After reading the instructions (which they didn't include in the packaging),
they make it VERY clear that it should ALL be removed. Even to the point
where Goof-Off (or similar) should be used to remove all microscopic traces
of anything that could get in the way of the fluid's penetration into the
microscopic valleys of the metal. Hmmm, very interesting I must say.....


"Russ M." <acid_maltxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2q1oonFpcdq9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks! I got some "Arctic Silver" at CompUSA. I'm hopeful this will be
> the answer.
>
> I'm left with one last question though. The heat sink/fan has a round
piece
> of plastic (?) film where it contacts the CPU. On mine, it's all burned
up
> where the edges of the CPU made contact. But there is a tiny piece left
> where the center of the CPU meets it. Should I scrape this plastic/film
> away before putting the paste down? I seem to recall reading some
cautions
> about using both. But I may have misunderstood it. If I do need to
scrape
> it away, would it be best to scrape all of it away across the entire heat
> sink?
>
> Thanks for all the help!! It's been a great learning op...
>
>
>
> "AndrewJ" <andrewj@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:hl7nj051niak2d1t74omgsioj8b0qhkqlp@4ax.com...
> >
> >
> > >Where can I get thermal compound? Are they created equal
> (type/brandwise)?
> > >
> > Any local PC shop will have it. Even some of the bigger stores do,
> > just check their website to see. I have tried 5 different types and
> > all work the same. Some say "oh you must get this brand or that", but
> > I think that's all voodoo.
>
>
September 6, 2004 5:14:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Russ M." <acid_maltxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2q1oonFpcdq9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> Thanks! I got some "Arctic Silver" at CompUSA. I'm hopeful this will be
> the answer.
>
> I'm left with one last question though. The heat sink/fan has a round
piece
> of plastic (?) film where it contacts the CPU. On mine, it's all burned
up
> where the edges of the CPU made contact. But there is a tiny piece left
> where the center of the CPU meets it. Should I scrape this plastic/film
> away before putting the paste down?
Plastic film? I think the mystery of the high temps has been solved!
Isobupyl (rubbing) alcohol is a good choice for cleaning a heatsink - you
don't want to use anything that leaves any residue on the surface. You can
buy it at chemists, or can use most audio cassette head cleaning fluids as
they are the same stuff.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 6, 2004 5:14:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

No, I may not have explained myself well enough to give you a good visual.
The Plastic film I'm talking about was located on the bottom of the
Thermaltake fan. There was a protective piece of paper on it that I need to
remove before installing. Apparently, this is a common inclusion on most
fans. The piece of plastic/film is designed to melt on the first use
providing a 'sort of' dissipater. At least this is what I've learned so
far. I cleaned it using a razor blade and it 'sludged' right off with
almost no effort. I used Goof-Off as suggested in the instructions for the
thermal paste and already re-installed it. But....

This could be key:....
Now I have a new issue to examine. Mind you, I didn't get any instructions
with my CPU/MD/Fan and had to assemble it myself. No prob, I don't need no
stinkin' instructions. :)  Well, hind-peak has struck me. On the CPU fan,
there were 2 connectors and a heat sensor. Connector(1) had 2 wires that I
now know is a 12v + gnd. The other connector(2) had only 1 wire (yellow).
Since my power supply had a matching power connector, I attached
connector(1) to it and connector(2) went to the motherboard. The MB is
equipped to supply power (12v+gnd). This has got me a bit confused at this
point. What the heck did I do and what the heck do I do. Something just
tells me my connections could have contributed to the problem. But I really
don't know either way. I'm in the process of researching how the 2
connections should have been made, but any real insights will be more than
welcome.




"GTS" <gts123NOSPAM@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:3SO_c.968$Nq5.29@newsfe6-win.ntli.net...
>
> "Russ M." <acid_maltxspam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:2q1oonFpcdq9U1@uni-berlin.de...
> > Thanks! I got some "Arctic Silver" at CompUSA. I'm hopeful this will
be
> > the answer.
> >
> > I'm left with one last question though. The heat sink/fan has a round
> piece
> > of plastic (?) film where it contacts the CPU. On mine, it's all burned
> up
> > where the edges of the CPU made contact. But there is a tiny piece left
> > where the center of the CPU meets it. Should I scrape this plastic/film
> > away before putting the paste down?
> Plastic film? I think the mystery of the high temps has been solved!
> Isobupyl (rubbing) alcohol is a good choice for cleaning a heatsink - you
> don't want to use anything that leaves any residue on the surface. You can
> buy it at chemists, or can use most audio cassette head cleaning fluids as
> they are the same stuff.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 6, 2004 5:14:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

It looks like I had it right through purely 'dumb' luck.
http://www.thermaltake.com/support/installations/cooler...

This is what I had so I guess it didn't contribute to the prob. I'm getting
ready to give it a go with the paste right now so we'll see how things go...
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 6, 2004 5:14:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>No, I may not have explained myself well enough to give you a good visual.
>The Plastic film I'm talking about was located on the bottom of the
>Thermaltake fan. There was a protective piece of paper on it that I need to
>remove before installing. Apparently, this is a common inclusion on most
>fans. The piece of plastic/film is designed to melt on the first use
>providing a 'sort of' dissipater. At least this is what I've learned so
>far. I cleaned it using a razor blade and it 'sludged' right off with
>almost no effort. I used Goof-Off as suggested in the instructions for the
>thermal paste and already re-installed it. But....
>
>This could be key:....
>Now I have a new issue to examine. Mind you, I didn't get any instructions
>with my CPU/MD/Fan and had to assemble it myself. No prob, I don't need no
>stinkin' instructions. :)  Well, hind-peak has struck me. On the CPU fan,
>there were 2 connectors and a heat sensor. Connector(1) had 2 wires that I
>now know is a 12v + gnd. The other connector(2) had only 1 wire (yellow).
>Since my power supply had a matching power connector, I attached
>connector(1) to it and connector(2) went to the motherboard. The MB is
>equipped to supply power (12v+gnd). This has got me a bit confused at this
>point. What the heck did I do and what the heck do I do. Something just
>tells me my connections could have contributed to the problem. But I really
>don't know either way. I'm in the process of researching how the 2
>connections should have been made, but any real insights will be more than
>welcome.

The yellow from the HSF gives the speed reading to anything that wants
to know. If you don't plug that in the mobo where it expects a CPU fan
to be, it shouldn't start as a safety feature. The other two are for
power and should go to an adapter that fits the regular power plugs
like the HDD and CD drive get.
http://tinyurl.com/6q4dj


------------
When your PC gives a little they give a lot.
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/disco
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
a b à CPUs
September 6, 2004 5:14:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I'm in absolute awe!! I can't say thank you enough to the guys that posted
replies for help. I'm now running at full/heavy load (same video encoding
application in all tests) at 47C CPU temp. That's 18C lower than I was
before using the paste! And the temp is extremley stable and consistent.
Before the paste, the temp was bouncing up/down from second to second. At
idle, it was a mere 38C. That's a 19C reduction from before. This is also
at 166MHz and the temps are even lower now than when I was running at
133MHz. I'm absolutely flaberghasted! Thank you guys soooo much!! Before
all this, I had clear visions of fighting it out with the vendor and having
to return the whole mess. I'm so glad beyond words! Now, I even have
thoughts of overclocking a bit. I hate to look a gift horse in the mouth,
but it looks like I have about 10C to spare >:) .

Really...you guys made my whole week and beyond. I'm very grateful! Thank
You!
!