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big case - IDE 18 inch length limit. (also, RAID question)

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September 19, 2004 3:10:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

I have a fairly big case, about 18" high. drive bays go right up to
the top of it. I can only reach the lowest bay though, because the
distance
diagonally from the IDE connector on my mobo to the bays is > 18"

I have a huge 40-wire IDE cable that reaches, but I want to use a 80
wire cable because 40 wire is old and causes problems.

What is the point of large cases, even larger than my one, when IDE
cables - or 80 wire ones at least - whose standard is 18" can't reach?

I'm going to get a PCI-IDE adaptor, and hopefully the distance between
the IDE socket on that and the bays is < 18 inches.

I have a removable drive bay, thus I can put my 3.5" HDD in a 5.25"
socket, but it's no use if my cables can't reach it.

Off topic- The PCI-IDE adaptor/controller i'm getting is RAID 0,1. Can
the RAID feature be turned on/off on any controller card?
If I use it after getting into my computer via a boot disk, would I
need a reference in autoexec/config or does the BIOS deal with it
completely?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 19, 2004 10:49:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

o Keep to the 18" limit
---- yes there are 24" even 36" IDE cables out there
---- they are also problem prone, it is your data after all
o Consider SATA if the board has it
---- if you've not bought the drives/mb you can swap to it
---- or use an SATA card

Regarding RAID...
o RAID 0 is appropriately named - Zero-Reducancy-AID :-)
o Yes, you need to identify how to recover if a RAID array fails
---- RAID-0 is just striping, if a drive fails there is no recovery
---- RAID-1 is drive mirroring, if a drive fails there is a recovery
o Most cheap cards have non-automatic RAID-1 recovery
---- you don't simply plug in a replacement drive & auto-rebuild

Proper RAID cards do offer auto-rebuild & pretty solid reliability
o 3ware do a reasonably priced 2-drive RAID-0/1 SATA/ATA card
---- about £95 and what I'd use for RAID-1
o 3ware do a 4-drive RAID 5/10 SATA/ATA card
---- but it's about 3x more expensive - £290 at a rough guess

If you are RAID-0, little point in using a 2-port 3ware
o Exception would be if in a commercial environment re quality
If you are using RAID-1/10, then the 3ware cards are worth a look
o Not cheap, particularly above 2-port but Linux to Windows stable

If the solution is just to bypass the case problem, fix the case:
o Easy to find a suitable case for far below a 4-port 3ware card
o 18" cables are ok with "cube" cases - two-MIDI-side-by-side
o Work ok with the 3ware 8/12-port ATA cards (Spaghetti Incorp)

You may also need a box of Elastoplast, Medicated For PC Use :-)
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for quiet Panaflo fans & other items
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk (free delivery)
September 19, 2004 10:49:15 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

"Dorothy Bradbury" <dorothy.bradbury@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<Kwk3d.216$WS.11@newsfe1-win.ntli.net>...
> o Keep to the 18" limit
> ---- yes there are 24" even 36" IDE cables out there
> ---- they are also problem prone, it is your data after all
> o Consider SATA if the board has it
> ---- if you've not bought the drives/mb you can swap to it
> ---- or use an SATA card
<snip>
> If the solution is just to bypass the case problem, fix the case:
> o Easy to find a suitable case for far below a 4-port 3ware card
> o 18" cables are ok with "cube" cases - two-MIDI-side-by-side
> o Work ok with the 3ware 8/12-port ATA cards (Spaghetti Incorp)
>
> You may also need a box of Elastoplast, Medicated For PC Use :-)

Before SATA or cube cases what did ppl do with IDE devices and big
cases?

So I need an ATX cube case prob about 14" high or less. With 5*5.25"
bays with removable drive rails for those bays. And a removable 3.5"
cage that slides and locks in. Where you push a latch and pull it out.
The idea of me glueing 2 expensive cases together seems like a bit of
a gamble. Do cube cases like that exist?

I could use SATA, but i'd like a purely IDE solution too. I don't like
the idea of not being able to use IDE on all my bays
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2004 12:23:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <61f945bb.0409191010.5041d654@posting.google.com>, Anon
<q_q_anonymous@yahoo.co.uk> writes

>I have a fairly big case, about 18" high. drive bays go right up to
>the top of it. I can only reach the lowest bay though, because the
>distance
>diagonally from the IDE connector on my mobo to the bays is > 18"

use serial ATA. The cables can be up to 1 metre.

--
..sigmonster on vacation
September 20, 2004 1:34:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

In article <61f945bb.0409191010.5041d654@posting.google.com>,
q_q_anonymous@yahoo.co.uk says...
> I have a fairly big case, about 18" high. drive bays go right up to
> the top of it. I can only reach the lowest bay though, because the
> distance
> diagonally from the IDE connector on my mobo to the bays is > 18"
>
> I have a huge 40-wire IDE cable that reaches, but I want to use a 80
> wire cable because 40 wire is old and causes problems.
>
> What is the point of large cases, even larger than my one, when IDE
> cables - or 80 wire ones at least - whose standard is 18" can't reach?
>
> I'm going to get a PCI-IDE adaptor, and hopefully the distance between
> the IDE socket on that and the bays is < 18 inches.
>
> I have a removable drive bay, thus I can put my 3.5" HDD in a 5.25"
> socket, but it's no use if my cables can't reach it.
>
> Off topic- The PCI-IDE adaptor/controller i'm getting is RAID 0,1. Can
> the RAID feature be turned on/off on any controller card?
> If I use it after getting into my computer via a boot disk, would I
> need a reference in autoexec/config or does the BIOS deal with it
> completely?
>


I doubt you'll have any problems with a 24" cable. Just don't bend it
too much.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 20, 2004 3:52:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

On 19 Sep 2004 11:10:36 -0700, q_q_anonymous@yahoo.co.uk
(Anon) wrote:

>I have a fairly big case, about 18" high. drive bays go right up to
>the top of it. I can only reach the lowest bay though, because the
>distance
>diagonally from the IDE connector on my mobo to the bays is > 18"
>
>I have a huge 40-wire IDE cable that reaches, but I want to use a 80
>wire cable because 40 wire is old and causes problems.
>
>What is the point of large cases, even larger than my one, when IDE
>cables - or 80 wire ones at least - whose standard is 18" can't reach?
>
>I'm going to get a PCI-IDE adaptor, and hopefully the distance between
>the IDE socket on that and the bays is < 18 inches.
>
>I have a removable drive bay, thus I can put my 3.5" HDD in a 5.25"
>socket, but it's no use if my cables can't reach it.
>
>Off topic- The PCI-IDE adaptor/controller i'm getting is RAID 0,1. Can
>the RAID feature be turned on/off on any controller card?
>If I use it after getting into my computer via a boot disk, would I
>need a reference in autoexec/config or does the BIOS deal with it
>completely?

1) Decent rounded 80-conductor cables use twisted-pair
construction. With these, a 24" cable is possible, and the
best solution since you already have all other elements in
place.

2) PCI-IDE card is often lower performance than modern
motherboard southbridge-integral IDE, due to it avoiding PCI
bus, rather a parallel connection to southbridge.

3) Any "normal" RAID card can be set to use single-drive
SPAN, not stripe, which is the equivalent of non-raid, does
not depend on the specific raid card for data access.

4) Not sure exactly what you goal is with "use it after a
boot disk", but in general any card that does drive
enumeration right after the POST of motherboard (most do)
will have the drive visable from that point on... but of
course whatever OS your boot disk boots to, must support the
filesystem... for example, if formatted as NTFS then DOS
(alone) can't use it.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
September 21, 2004 5:42:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt,alt.comp.hardware,comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.misc,uk.comp.homebuilt (More info?)

> Before SATA or cube cases what did ppl do with IDE devices and big
> cases?

Either broke the rules - remember there wasn't ATA-133 then :-)
Or simply used SCSI which allowed far longer distances (and then as
SCSI clock-speed increased so distance dropped until LVD came along,
before LVD there was HVD for very long distances and silly price tags).

> So I need an ATX cube case prob about 14" high or less. With 5*5.25"
> bays with removable drive rails for those bays. And a removable 3.5"
> cage that slides and locks in. Where you push a latch and pull it out.
> The idea of me glueing 2 expensive cases together seems like a bit of
> a gamble. Do cube cases like that exist?

Yes they do however...

> I could use SATA, but i'd like a purely IDE solution too. I don't like
> the idea of not being able to use IDE on all my bays

I'm not sure what the attraction is of an IDE solution.

Considering doing this:
o Now -- ATA for a few drives - fitted so as to be within the 18" limit
o Future -- SATA for more drives - fitted further away using 1m SATA cables

That gives you the best of both worlds & an upgrade path.

Most modern motherboards have 2x SATA & 4x ATA capability.
Easy enough to add a non-RAID SATA card for more if you wish later,
which would allow the use of 1m SATA cables increasing fitment choice.

Note add-in cards use the PCI bus, onboard often bypass this re bandwidth.
That said, unless you are RAID-ing a lot of hard-drives this is a moot point.

No special case needed, no RAID card needed either.

Conversely, if you need 8 drives, and want to RAID them I would:
o Use SATA entirely - gives you 1m cable length & good airflow
o Use 3ware SATA RAID - gives a stable, proven, auto-recovery RAID

Just depends on the application.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.stores.ebay.co.uk/panaflofan for quiet Panaflo fans & other items
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk (free delivery)
!