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Now i'm confused (network question)

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October 1, 2004 1:06:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Hi all,

I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want
the have to have the pc on to do this.

I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the difference
between a router and an Ethernet hub?

I purchased a network starter kit years ago and have just recently found the
hub again.

Can this do the same job? What are the differences?

Many thanks for any help given,

Scott
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2004 1:06:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Scott" <pawsandclawsremovethis@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:cjj6mj$rhh$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want
> the have to have the pc on to do this.
>
> I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the
> difference between a router and an Ethernet hub?
>
> I purchased a network starter kit years ago and have just recently found
> the hub again.
>
> Can this do the same job? What are the differences?
>
> Many thanks for any help given,
>
> Scott


Theoretically, either a router or a hub should work. However, as your cable
modem probably only allows one IP, I don't think you'll be able to use both
the PC and xbox at the same time, if you use your hub. But as you already
have the hub, it'll cost you nothing to find out if the hub will work.

I suspect you'll end up buying a router eventually. If you use a router,
the router itself looks like a computer, which is why you'd only need one
IP. (the router will assign IPs to other local devices) But a hub will
allow the cable modem to see both connected devices on the other side of the
hub. That's why I don't think it will work, but I could be wrong, as I've
never tried it that way. -Dave
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2004 2:04:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Scott" <pawsandclawsremovethis@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:cjj6mj$rhh$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want
> the have to have the pc on to do this.
>
> I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the
> difference between a router and an Ethernet hub?
>
> I purchased a network starter kit years ago and have just recently found
> the hub again.
>
> Can this do the same job? What are the differences?
>
> Many thanks for any help given,
>
> Scott
>

It should work fine. A router has some built-in HW based security, but in
simple terms, they end up doing the same thing. I don't have any experience
with the X-Box, but as long as it is compatible with the 10/100 or whatever
router/hub you have it should work just fine.


Ed
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2004 11:28:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Scott" <pawsandclawsremovethis@btconnect.com> wrote...
>
> I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want the
> have to have the pc on to do this.
>
> I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the difference
> between a router and an Ethernet hub?

A router "insulates" your local network (PCs, X-box, etc) from the Internet,
giving you a significant level of security, as well as performing all the
functions of a hub. A simple hub does not provide that protection.

Also, a hub can only provide "shared bandwidth," which means communication and
data transfer among multiple machines can slow considerably. All modern
networks use Ethernet Switches (or "switched hubs") that provide full bandwidth
to each machine. I don't know if you can even find simple hubs in retail stores
any more, since switches and routers are so cheap.

But an inexpensive router. You'll be much happier.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 1, 2004 11:49:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Scott wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want
> the have to have the pc on to do this.
>
> I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the difference
> between a router and an Ethernet hub?
>
> I purchased a network starter kit years ago and have just recently found the
> hub again.
>
> Can this do the same job? What are the differences?
>
> Many thanks for any help given,
>
> Scott
>
>

The key to this is what kind of cable modem you have. If you have one that
is designed to operate with multiple computers then it will have the router
function built in: I.E. NAT (Network Address Translation) and a DHCP server
to dole out IP addresses to the computers on the local LAN (and probably a
firewall). In which case you could simply add a hub: a dumb device that is
essentially an wire interconnect box.

If, however, you have a simple 'one computer' cable modem (more likely I
would think in your case) then you'll need to add a router that has NAT and
a DHCP server to dole out IP addresses to the computers on the local LAN.

Now, when you use the 'one' computer connected to the cable modem as the
'internet connection sharing' box, that is what it's doing: acting as a NAT
router (the 'internet connection sharing' part) and a DHCP server for the
other computers. It is, 'the router'. Or, as you want to do, you can buy a
stand alone one to do the same job.

Here's how it works.

You can't use internet addresses for your local LAN and local LAN IP
addresses are not valid on the internet so you need something 'in-between'
and some means to 'translate' between the two. For a single computer there
is really nothing to figure out, though; the cable modem knows where
everything comes from and goes to: the one computer. So it is essentially a
one to one echo between them.

With more than one computer it becomes more problematic. Each could make a
request to the modem but when the answer comes back, where does it go?
Something must keep track of those requests and match the replies up with
them so they go back to the requesting computer. In other words, something
must route the data. That's what NAT does: keep track of who asked and then
route the reply to them.

Now, each machine needs a local LAN IP address so NAT knows who's talking.
One could do that manually but it's a lot nicer if the router handles it
automatically so NAT routers usually include a DHCP server. And, since
we've got a microprocessor in the thing already to do NAT and DHCP, we
might as well add a firewall feature, right?

Note that it isn't just 'a router' you need. You need a NAT router.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 2, 2004 3:29:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

The hub can be viewed as a "dumb" connector that will not be able to share
your cable connection. The Router is "intelligent" and CAN share the cable
connection for you.

--
DaveW



"Scott" <pawsandclawsremovethis@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:cjj6mj$rhh$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
> Hi all,
>
> I was wanting to connect my cable modem to my pc and xbox but do not want
> the have to have the pc on to do this.
>
> I've been told to get a router, but i was wondering, what is the
> difference between a router and an Ethernet hub?
>
> I purchased a network starter kit years ago and have just recently found
> the hub again.
>
> Can this do the same job? What are the differences?
>
> Many thanks for any help given,
>
> Scott
>
October 2, 2004 4:45:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

You need a router. It does not need to have NAT but, if your router does
not have NAT, you may have to pay your ISP for multiple IP's. Generally,
an ISP's basic fee includes one IP address for one computer or whatever
you hookup. If you add another device (second PC, laptop, xbox,
whatever) and require another IP, your ISP will add additional charges
to your bill for the extra IP(s).

IF you use a router with NAT you will not need another IP address. As
explained previously, a router with NAT will provide local IP's to
devices on your home network. The router itself will use one IP to
communicate with the cable modem. Thus, your ISP will see only one IP in
use and your bill will not change. Check your ISP's policies regarding
using multiple IP's.

A hub will not work unless you tell your ISP you want multiple IP's.
This will of course, trigger the increased bill. If you hookup multiple
devices at the same time you must have an individual IP for each device.
A hub cannot assign multiple IP's and a single IP cable modem cannot do
this either. A cable modem with an internal router can do this but you
probably don't have one unless you are paying extra for it.

As mentioned previously, a hub is a dumb device which basically connects
the wires together. A router has sufficient intelligence to connect two
networks together. You ARE connecting two networks together. Your home
network and the ISP's network.

Poor mans solution:

If you only use one device at a time then just connect that device to
the modem and leave the others disconnected. You may need to re-boot the
modem each time you change devices. Many modems lock themselves to the
first device they find after booting. To get around this simply remove
power from the modem for 10seconds or so. Re-apply power to the modem
and wait for it to finish booting. After the modem has completed
booting, connect the device you wish to use. Then boot the device you
wish to use.


NAT: Network Address Translation

Translates local IP addresses on a LAN to and address usable on the web.

IP address: Internet Protocol Address

IP addresses (along with MAC addresses) identify individual devices on a
network. Every device within a given lan must have a unique IP address.

(These are very simplistic definitions.)


HTH
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
October 2, 2004 11:30:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JS wrote:

> You need a router. It does not need to have NAT but, if your router does
> not have NAT, you may have to pay your ISP for multiple IP's. Generally,
> an ISP's basic fee includes one IP address for one computer or whatever
> you hookup. If you add another device (second PC, laptop, xbox,
> whatever) and require another IP, your ISP will add additional charges
> to your bill for the extra IP(s).

That's a good point. Yes, I was presuming he didn't want to pay for
additional IPs.


> IF you use a router with NAT you will not need another IP address. As
> explained previously, a router with NAT will provide local IP's to
> devices on your home network. The router itself will use one IP to
> communicate with the cable modem. Thus, your ISP will see only one IP in
> use and your bill will not change. Check your ISP's policies regarding
> using multiple IP's.
>
> A hub will not work unless you tell your ISP you want multiple IP's.
> This will of course, trigger the increased bill. If you hookup multiple
> devices at the same time you must have an individual IP for each device.
> A hub cannot assign multiple IP's and a single IP cable modem cannot do
> this either. A cable modem with an internal router can do this but you
> probably don't have one unless you are paying extra for it.
>
> As mentioned previously, a hub is a dumb device which basically connects
> the wires together. A router has sufficient intelligence to connect two
> networks together. You ARE connecting two networks together. Your home
> network and the ISP's network.
>
> Poor mans solution:
>
> If you only use one device at a time then just connect that device to
> the modem and leave the others disconnected. You may need to re-boot the
> modem each time you change devices. Many modems lock themselves to the
> first device they find after booting. To get around this simply remove
> power from the modem for 10seconds or so. Re-apply power to the modem
> and wait for it to finish booting. After the modem has completed
> booting, connect the device you wish to use. Then boot the device you
> wish to use.
>
>
> NAT: Network Address Translation
>
> Translates local IP addresses on a LAN to and address usable on the web.
>
> IP address: Internet Protocol Address
>
> IP addresses (along with MAC addresses) identify individual devices on a
> network. Every device within a given lan must have a unique IP address.
>
> (These are very simplistic definitions.)
>
>
> HTH
!