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Modern toners - are they magnetic ?

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Anonymous
September 10, 2004 11:43:41 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?

I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?

Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
all to coat the drum ?

More about : modern toners magnetic

Anonymous
September 11, 2004 8:38:43 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

>I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
>my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
>I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?

Toner is not metallic, it's a plastic. Plastic that reacts to static
electricity effects to make it stick to the drum. Then the corona wire, or in
more modern printers, the transfer roller, pulls it off the drum and sticks it
to the paper. The the fuser melts the toner into the paper.

Raymond
Anonymous
September 11, 2004 12:01:48 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

[This followup was posted to comp.periphs.printers and a copy was sent
to the cited author.]

In article <f84c4163.0409101843.406cdaed@posting.google.com>,
panaiq@hotmail.com says...
> In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
> magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?
>
> I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
> my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
> I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>
> Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
> all to coat the drum ?

I don't think most, if any, copier/laser printer uses magnetism,
except for some special ones maybe used for printing checks and similar.

Toner uses static electricity to stick to the drum. It is then
transferred to the paper, then heated and melted to be permanent.

A few 'how stuff works' links:
http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/photocopier.htm
http://computer.howstuffworks.com/laser-printer.htm

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Anonymous
September 11, 2004 6:45:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

OK.
I was talking to the local cartridge remanufacturer about a refilled
cartridge for my Panasonic kx-p7100 laser printer. He said he uses
magnets when handling laser printer toners.
When I put a magnet near the Panasonic toner it has no visible
attraction to the toner.
So it looks like the black rubber roller that gets coated with toner
and in turn coats the photo drum with toner, probably is
electrostatically charged to enable it to pick up the toner from the
toner reservoir ?
Anonymous
September 11, 2004 6:52:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

On 10 Sep 2004 19:43:41 -0700, panaiq@hotmail.com (paniq) wrote:

>In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
>magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?
>
>I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
>my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
>I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>
>Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
>all to coat the drum ?

As far as I know lasers use static electricity to get the toner powder
to stick to the drum. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone
somewhere using a magnetic component in their toner formulation, but I
don't see why they would. The traditional method of using static to
do it seems to work fine, and it seems like using magnets to do the
same job might actually make the toner and printer cost more.
---------------------------------------------

MCheu
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 12:06:33 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

"MCheu" <mpcheu@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:n7i6k059sa073k5eh0arml8522mskl5o3d@4ax.com...
> On 10 Sep 2004 19:43:41 -0700, panaiq@hotmail.com (paniq) wrote:
>
>>In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
>>magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?
>>
>>I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
>>my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
>>I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>>
>>Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
>>all to coat the drum ?
>
> As far as I know lasers use static electricity to get the toner powder
> to stick to the drum. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone
> somewhere using a magnetic component in their toner formulation, but I
> don't see why they would.

If you're printing checks some of the banks rely on the older magnetic ink
readers




The traditional method of using static to
> do it seems to work fine, and it seems like using magnets to do the
> same job might actually make the toner and printer cost more.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> MCheu
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 5:35:06 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I think what the OP was getting at is the iron powder used as developer.
Some machines have separate developer units, others have it as part of the
cartridge. However, I don't know if all lasers use developer. Maybe one of
the toner recharge vendors will join in and explain this in better detail.

Ron Cohen

"Quadrajet1" <quadrajet1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040911003843.03503.00000718@mb-m05.aol.com...
> >I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
> >my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
> >I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>
> Toner is not metallic, it's a plastic. Plastic that reacts to static
> electricity effects to make it stick to the drum. Then the corona wire,
or in
> more modern printers, the transfer roller, pulls it off the drum and
sticks it
> to the paper. The the fuser melts the toner into the paper.
>
> Raymond


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Anonymous
September 12, 2004 3:24:53 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I think I understand where the confusion is concerning laser and
photocopy toners and magnetism comes from.

In earlier times, these dry printers used two different powders, a
toner, and a "developer". The toner was made up of usually some
dye/pigment that made it black (such as carbon black, or many other
black substances) which was mixed with usually some type of very finely
ground styrene plastic.

The developer is where the confusion comes in.

The electrostatic drum was/is charged in such a manner to cause it to
attract this Styrene and pigment toner to certain areas which represent
black image on the final print, and to not have a charge that will draw
the toner to the drum in areas that are to be white.

The problem was how to get the toner "dust" onto the drum in just the
charged areas.

The system that was created involved using a very finely ground ceramic
and iron mix, which was referred to as "developer". The reason for the
iron was because there was a magnetic roller in the printer/copier,
which would become coated with this iron mixture, making it have a layer
of soft "fur" on it. The toner was mixed with this material so that the
coating of fur on the magnetic roller would have toner mixed into it.
This fur would stick out as iron tends to on a magnet, in close
proximity or even slightly touching the charged drum and the toner would
then jump to the image drum as required.

This developer was not a consumable (although some did end up being
fused to paper). It was simply a transfer method between the toner and
the image drum.

In an attempt to simplify and improve image quality, Canon came out with
a one step product, which was also embraced along with the Canon laser
printer engines, by HP. The toner and the magnetic "beads" were
integrated and made very small, so that the whole powder would jump onto
the image drum, and in effect, both toner an developer were used up
together and fused to the paper. These units also used a magnetic "fur"
roller, but since only one mixture was used and the developer was used
up at the same time as the toner, once the powder ran out, the
expendable were all gone and it was time for a new cartridge.

Some more recent printers/copies gave up on the magnetic roller and fur,
and went to a static charged roller, so only toner (nonmagnetic) was
required and it would jump from that roller to the image drum. Today
many manufacturers have gone this route, but if you have an older
machine, you will still require to use the magnetic formulations.

Art



Andrew Rossmann wrote:

> [This followup was posted to comp.periphs.printers and a copy was sent
> to the cited author.]
>
> In article <f84c4163.0409101843.406cdaed@posting.google.com>,
> panaiq@hotmail.com says...
>
>>In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
>>magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?
>>
>>I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
>>my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
>>I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>>
>>Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
>>all to coat the drum ?
>
>
> I don't think most, if any, copier/laser printer uses magnetism,
> except for some special ones maybe used for printing checks and similar.
>
> Toner uses static electricity to stick to the drum. It is then
> transferred to the paper, then heated and melted to be permanent.
>
> A few 'how stuff works' links:
> http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/photocopier.htm
> http://computer.howstuffworks.com/laser-printer.htm
>
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 3:30:59 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

As I mentioned in my explanation, which I just posted, pretty much all
laser and copier toner formulations used to use either a separate
magnetic "developer" powder (actually, the developer wasn't magnetic, as
much as it was ferric and could be acted upon BY a magnet, or an
integrated developer and toner, which was magnetic sensitive. The
explanation I provide describes why this process required a ferric material.

Art

MCheu wrote:

> On 10 Sep 2004 19:43:41 -0700, panaiq@hotmail.com (paniq) wrote:
>
>
>>In general can you tell if a toner is magnetic by bringing a bar
>>magnet next to the toner and seeing if it jumps to coat the magnet ?
>>
>>I tried putting a permanent bar magnet next to some of the toner from
>>my Panasonic KX-P7100 printer, but no toner stuck to the magnet, so am
>>I safe in assuming it is not magnetic ?
>>
>>Also, does this mean that the KX-P7100 doesn't use any magnetism at
>>all to coat the drum ?
>
>
> As far as I know lasers use static electricity to get the toner powder
> to stick to the drum. I wouldn't rule out the possibility of someone
> somewhere using a magnetic component in their toner formulation, but I
> don't see why they would. The traditional method of using static to
> do it seems to work fine, and it seems like using magnets to do the
> same job might actually make the toner and printer cost more.
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> MCheu
Anonymous
September 12, 2004 3:33:58 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

I own a Panasonic KX-P4420 and it uses a separate toner (non-ferric) and
a separate developed (Ferric). They are mixed together by the machine
as required, and the toner is transferred to the image drum via the
magnetic "fur" which is made up of both the ferric developer and the
toner mixed together.

Art

paniq wrote:

> OK.
> I was talking to the local cartridge remanufacturer about a refilled
> cartridge for my Panasonic kx-p7100 laser printer. He said he uses
> magnets when handling laser printer toners.
> When I put a magnet near the Panasonic toner it has no visible
> attraction to the toner.
> So it looks like the black rubber roller that gets coated with toner
> and in turn coats the photo drum with toner, probably is
> electrostatically charged to enable it to pick up the toner from the
> toner reservoir ?
Anonymous
September 13, 2004 10:46:15 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In message <9mW0d.138628$A8.10318@edtnps89>, Arthur Entlich
<artistic@telus.net> writes

>In an attempt to simplify and improve image quality, Canon came out
>with a one step product, which was also embraced along with the Canon
>laser printer engines, by HP.

HP4M+ ?


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
Anonymous
September 15, 2004 11:40:08 AM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

Are you asking if the HP4M+ uses this one part toner which uses the iron
based toner/developer?

I don't know for sure, but most HP printers have used this type of one
part toner/developer system since the very first HP laser printer. If
it uses a cartridge which becomes pretty much empty after use, and it
uses a magnetic roller, then the answer is yes.

Art

John Beardmore wrote:

> In message <9mW0d.138628$A8.10318@edtnps89>, Arthur Entlich
> <artistic@telus.net> writes
>
>> In an attempt to simplify and improve image quality, Canon came out
>> with a one step product, which was also embraced along with the Canon
>> laser printer engines, by HP.
>
>
> HP4M+ ?
>
>
> Cheers, J/.
Anonymous
September 16, 2004 6:37:51 PM

Archived from groups: comp.periphs.printers (More info?)

In message <slS1d.24323$KU5.4583@edtnps89>, Arthur Entlich
<artistic@telus.net> writes

>Are you asking if the HP4M+ uses this one part toner which uses the
>iron based toner/developer?

Well, it's certainly one part when I refill the cartridges.


>I don't know for sure, but most HP printers have used this type of one
>part toner/developer system since the very first HP laser printer. If
>it uses a cartridge which becomes pretty much empty after use,

Yes.


> and it uses a magnetic roller, then the answer is yes.

Never noticed anything magnetic but never really looked. Will see next
time.


Cheers, J/.
--
John Beardmore
!