Basic Motherboard Upgrade Advice?

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at around 1.1
GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X and
128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not support
AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never reaching
the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine. Sometimes the
mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.

If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I sit
it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?

Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger and
better?

I don't feel I have any need to spend my last dollar for the latest and
greatest and fastest, but would like to get things back in line and running
faster--mb, cpu, and RAM no doubt.

Any ideas on what direction to point me? Thanks much. I haven't worked my
own system up for years now so I don't know the best spots to start the
searching and thinking.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Susan" <UCE@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:0shsq09p0gfbueck7igpum3e9og8ihps2r@4ax.com...
> I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at around
1.1
> GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X and
> 128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not support
> AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never reaching
> the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine. Sometimes the
> mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
> manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.
>
> If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
sit
> it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger and
> better?
>
> I don't feel I have any need to spend my last dollar for the latest and
> greatest and fastest, but would like to get things back in line and
running
> faster--mb, cpu, and RAM no doubt.
>
> Any ideas on what direction to point me? Thanks much. I haven't worked
my
> own system up for years now so I don't know the best spots to start the
> searching and thinking.

I'd say if your happy with having to boot twice, than leave it the way it
is. If your not happy having to boot twice, why deal with the problem for 6
months waiting for something better to come out? You'll just be stuck in an
endless cycle of waiting.

MC

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I don't think your PSu is up to the needs of the Graphics card

"Susan" <UCE@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:0shsq09p0gfbueck7igpum3e9og8ihps2r@4ax.com...
> I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at around
1.1
> GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X and
> 128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not support
> AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never reaching
> the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine. Sometimes the
> mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
> manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.
>
> If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
sit
> it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger and
> better?
>
> I don't feel I have any need to spend my last dollar for the latest and
> greatest and fastest, but would like to get things back in line and
running
> faster--mb, cpu, and RAM no doubt.
>
> Any ideas on what direction to point me? Thanks much. I haven't worked
my
> own system up for years now so I don't know the best spots to start the
> searching and thinking.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Susan" <UCE@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:0shsq09p0gfbueck7igpum3e9og8ihps2r@4ax.com...
>I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at around 1.1
> GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X and
> 128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not support
> AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never reaching
> the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine. Sometimes the
> mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
> manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.
>
> If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
> sit
> it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger and
> better?
>
> I don't feel I have any need to spend my last dollar for the latest and
> greatest and fastest, but would like to get things back in line and
> running
> faster--mb, cpu, and RAM no doubt.
>
> Any ideas on what direction to point me? Thanks much. I haven't worked
> my
> own system up for years now so I don't know the best spots to start the
> searching and thinking.

OK, start with this:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?submit=Go&DEPA=0&CMP=OTC-Froogle&description=N82E16813123208

Your current CPU and RAM should work OK on that board, as well as your video
card. When you want more speed, you can pop in a 400FSB processor. When
you want even MORE speed, you can pop in 512MB of DDR400 RAM to replace your
current RAM.

As someone else posted, your symptoms might suggest a power supply that is
too weak. And it's not a good idea to recycle a power supply into a new
system. So REGARDLESS of what your next move is, I'd strongly suggest you
invest in a decent power supply like the following first. -Dave

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-006&depa=0

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <hrhackthatspam@witchiepoo.com> wrote in message
news:Cctrd.579$cv2.337@fe05.lga...
>I don't think your PSu is up to the needs of the Graphics card
>

I think her mainboard is supplying too much voltage to the graphics card. I
hope she replaces that motherboard before it frys her new video card. But
you could be right about the PSU, also. -Dave

 

[Techie]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I sit
>it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?

Maybe not a bad idea. Word around the campfire is BTX will make ATX
obsolete. More info is available at http://www.formfactors.org/.
Wait around to see what shakes loose.

--
If it's spam, it's a scam! Don't do business with net-abusers.
http://mbdynip.dyndns.org/html/mboard/

alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt mini-FAQ available at:
ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet-by-group/alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt/

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<techie@x87.com> wrote in message
news:3olsq05kudv7d0psbg94fi0q0bnpr96vna@4ax.com...
> >If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
> >sit
>>it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Maybe not a bad idea. Word around the campfire is BTX will make ATX
> obsolete. More info is available at http://www.formfactors.org/.
> Wait around to see what shakes loose.
>

You've been hanging out at the wrong campfire. BTX is a scam which intel is
trying to foist off on the all-too-gullible public. So far at least, very
few people have bought into it, thank goodness. There is NOTHING in BTX
that can't be easily incorporated into ATX. A new form factor is not
needed. -Dave

 

[jad]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Now, as ATX and its closest cousins begin to show its age from the advent of
new technologies like Serial ATA and PCI Express, a new form factor is seen
as a need by many companies and Intel has the answer - it's called Balanced
Technology eXtended (BTX). BTX, in its basic principle design, is very
similar to that of ATX, but there are a slew of changes that can and will be
utilized to show that it has the potential to improve the system as
a whole in terms of acoustics and heat dissipation.

keyword 'potential'

http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=article&dId=611

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
news:3175onF36g3fqU1@individual.net...
>
> <techie@x87.com> wrote in message
> news:3olsq05kudv7d0psbg94fi0q0bnpr96vna@4ax.com...
> > >If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
> > >sit
> >>it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
> >
> > Maybe not a bad idea. Word around the campfire is BTX will make ATX
> > obsolete. More info is available at http://www.formfactors.org/.
> > Wait around to see what shakes loose.
> >
>
> You've been hanging out at the wrong campfire. BTX is a scam which intel
is
> trying to foist off on the all-too-gullible public. So far at least, very
> few people have bought into it, thank goodness. There is NOTHING in BTX
> that can't be easily incorporated into ATX. A new form factor is not
> needed. -Dave
>
>

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Susan wrote:
> I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at
around 1.1
> GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X
and
> 128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not
support
> AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never
reaching
> the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine.
Sometimes the
> mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
> manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.
>
> If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should
I sit
> it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger
and
> better?

Initial boot failure is often a sign of a weak power supply, and the
problem may not be inadequate total wattage but inadequate power on one
particular voltage output, either the +5V (if the video card lacks its
own power connector) or +12V (if it has its own power connector). A
check with a voltage meter (any digital model is more than accurate
enough) can reveal this fairly quickly. Personally I wouldn't risk
running video card in the 6800 class if it lacked a power connector
since it could cause the main motherboard power connetor to overheat
(brown marks where the red wires go into the white plastic).

The best thing to do with computers is avoid the cutting edge since it
costs so much more but gives only slightly better performance. And
don't switch to BTX until it becomes the dominate case style, that is,
becomes cheaper than ATX.

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Good info to work on so far...thanks.

I take it there remain good reasons to stick it out with AMD and not jump
over to Intel which would be more expensive including a CPU.

I hadn't thought of the power supply angle. There may be something to it
since the psu might only be 300 watts and I did add a second hdd and a DVD
burner recently, not to mention the 6800. That's two hdds and 2 CD/DVD
burners.

BTW, since I only use the basic 3 speaker system is there any reason to
using the SoundBlaster Live card over the motherboard onboard sound?
Likewise onboard LAN sounds like it would make sense.

I haven't taken a closer look at the EPoX board or psu recommended yet and
I don't think anyone has suggested anything else. It would be nice to have
some second opinions on these and maybe Tom's Hardware could help. I'm not
trying to go so far with this that I can't decide what to get though. But
I am all for working toward a quieter system--the damn thing is to noisy
even sitting behind the desk off the floor. It is not from the psu though,
which is quiet. I suspect it is the CPU fan--maybe there is a quieter fan
to get?

Thanks for all the help.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"JAD" <hrhackthatspam@witchiepoo.com> wrote in message
news:bvtrd.582$SM2.344@fe05.lga...
> Now, as ATX and its closest cousins begin to show its age from the advent
> of
> new technologies like Serial ATA and PCI Express, a new form factor is
> seen
> as a need by many companies and Intel has the answer - it's called
> Balanced
> Technology eXtended (BTX). BTX, in its basic principle design, is very
> similar to that of ATX, but there are a slew of changes that can and will
> be
> utilized to show that it has the potential to improve the system
> as
> a whole in terms of acoustics and heat dissipation.
>
> keyword 'potential'

Yes, and I've reviewed all of those proposed changes in detail. NONE of
them couldn't be implemented into the ATX form factor quite easily. -Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Susan" <UCE@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:guotq0p8q3cmaqbkk8fmetlb6e4rvd7b0h@4ax.com...
> Good info to work on so far...thanks.
>
> I take it there remain good reasons to stick it out with AMD and not jump
> over to Intel which would be more expensive including a CPU.
>
> I hadn't thought of the power supply angle. There may be something to it
> since the psu might only be 300 watts and I did add a second hdd and a DVD
> burner recently, not to mention the 6800. That's two hdds and 2
> CD/DVD
> burners.
>
> BTW, since I only use the basic 3 speaker system is there any reason to
> using the SoundBlaster Live card over the motherboard onboard sound?
> Likewise onboard LAN sounds like it would make sense.
>
> I haven't taken a closer look at the EPoX board or psu recommended yet and
> I don't think anyone has suggested anything else. It would be nice to
> have
> some second opinions on these and maybe Tom's Hardware could help. I'm
> not
> trying to go so far with this that I can't decide what to get though. But
> I am all for working toward a quieter system--the damn thing is to noisy
> even sitting behind the desk off the floor. It is not from the psu
> though,
> which is quiet. I suspect it is the CPU fan--maybe there is a quieter fan
> to get?
>
> Thanks for all the help.

I recommended the Epox board for a number of reasons. The socket A platform
has a lot of upgrade potential if you are starting with a ~1.1GHz processor.
AFAIK, socket A goes all the way up to 3GHz or so, which would make a
significant improvement in performance on your system. But you COULD jump
straight to a Athlon 64 or even Intel Pentium 4 system, if you want to.
That would give you even better performance, but it'll cost you. To go with
a faster socket A system might make more sense, as you can work on it a
little at a time.

Onboard sound and LAN solutions are pretty decent. There is no need to
upgrade.

The following is a good quiet cooler for socket A . . . either your current
CPU or a faster one, if you decide to upgrade it. -Dave
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-010&depa=0

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <3olsq05kudv7d0psbg94fi0q0bnpr96vna@4ax.com>, says...
> >If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I sit
> >it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?
>
> Maybe not a bad idea. Word around the campfire is BTX will make ATX
> obsolete. More info is available at http://www.formfactors.org/.
> Wait around to see what shakes loose.
>
AMD has no plans to jump on the BTX bandwagon which leaves Intel, who
are losing CPU market share, to try and force it through.


--
Conor

Greedo shot first. Greedo ALWAYS shot first. You did not see Solo shoot
first.
It never happened. Never, ever. Not in any version. Remember: Greedo
shot first.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Susan wrote:

> I have an EPoX EP-8K7A motherboard with an AMD Athlon running at around
> 1.1
> GHz. I recently upgraded the graphics to a GeForce 6800 with AGP8X and
> 128MB DDR. I've confirmed with EPoX though that the mb does not support
> AGP8X and 99% of the time the initial cold boot cycle hangs never reaching
> the Desktop. 99.9% of the time the second boot works fine. Sometimes the
> mouse freezes. EPoX thinks this is why the lack of AGP8X support is
> manifesting itself. Games all seem to otherwise play fine.

I've installed 8X cards in 4X boards with no problem. I've also installed 4X
cards in 2X boards with no problem. I can't see why lack of 8X support
would cause a problem. The motherboard and card should simply run at either
2X or 4X, whichever the motherboard supports, which should be 4X in your
case.

> If I were to upgrade the motherboard now is my timing right or should I
> sit it out another six months which would be easy enough to do maybe?

In six months, something even better will still be on the horizon. Jump in
now and get it over with. It's like a dog chasing its tail: It never
catches it. Besides, I doubt there will be anything new and great in 6
months that supports the AGP slot than there is out there now, except if
someone releases boards that have both AGP and PCI-e 16 slots. Who knows?

> Should I bail out of AMD and return to Intel with something bigger and
> better?

Are you kidding? AMD is on fire and Intel's flame is smoldering. AMD is
definitely the way to go, both for performance and value. The Athlon 64
systems will get about a 20% boost in speed with the release of 64 bit
Windows. Right now, in 32 bit mode, they compete head to head with Intel's
finest.

> I don't feel I have any need to spend my last dollar for the latest and
> greatest and fastest, but would like to get things back in line and
> running faster--mb, cpu, and RAM no doubt.

If you have an 8X card that you want to keep, Socket 939 boards are very
reasonable and they support dual channel DDR. Honestly, the graphics card
better be one you don't ever intend on upgrading because nVidia and ATi
have both announced no new products for AGP after the current generation.

> Any ideas on what direction to point me? Thanks much. I haven't worked
> my own system up for years now so I don't know the best spots to start the
> searching and thinking.

Knowing that you sunk quite a bit of investment in a GeForce 6800 card, I
suggest nice new Athlon 64 Socket 939 board like either the MSI K8N Neo2
Platinum nForce2 Ultra.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=241143

You can decide on which Athlon 64 CPU you want, based on your budget. For
memory, let me recommend Corsair Twin X pairs. 1GB should do wonders for
you.

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?ProductCode=80097-16

Feel free to purchase higher frequency and/or lower latency models if you
plan to overclock your system to its fullest. You'll get more mileage out
of higher frequency RAM than low latency, in my experience.

Some good places to visit for reviews and help are:

www.tomshardware.com
www.ocworkbench.com
www.cdrinfo.com
www.cdfreaks.com
www.xbitlabs.com
www.tweaktown.com
www.sharkyextreme.com
www.motherboards.org
www.hardocp.com
www.cdrlabs.com
www.extremeoverclocking.com
www.hardcoreware.net
www.lostcircuits.com
www.overclockercafe.com
www.hexus.net
www.hardwareanalysis.com
www.anandtech.com
www.amdzone.com
www.amdmb.com
www.octools.com
www.theinquirer.net
www.viaarena.com

Also, look at the OEM sites themselves. My favorites are:

www.corsairmicro.com
www.crucial.com
www.msicomputer.com
usa.asus.com
www.giga-byte.com
www.abit-usa.com

Good luck!

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>Yes, and I've reviewed all of those proposed changes in detail. NONE of
>them couldn't be implemented into the ATX form factor quite easily. -Dave

Dave, are you being contradictory? If a new form factor (BTX) is needed to
support the proposed changes in a mb then bring it on... Or, were you
saying you reviewed the proposed changes and you see no need for them so
that ATX, since these un-needed changes cannot be integrated into it,
should remain as is?

It doesn't sound like BTX will be ready for me in 6 months. Read on
because I think I need to make a change of some sort now.

Susan

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>I think her mainboard is supplying too much voltage to the graphics card. I
>hope she replaces that motherboard before it frys her new video card. But
>you could be right about the PSU, also. -Dave

I couldn't find the psu data so I'll have to stand on my head--but I'm not
going to do that just yet because...

I just started playing Half-Life 2 and some of the automatically set
options came out medium and the water reflections were set to simple.
After playing for hours and shutting down for the night it took a long time
and the Desktop graphics was screwed up for a minute until everything
eventually settled down to normal. When I turned up the options that were
set down the in-game graphics totally choked and I couldn't turn the game
off normally but Ctrl-Alt-Del worked, as did Alt-Tab.

I'm thinking (wondering) if this is also a result of trying to use an AGP
8X card on a 4X mb?

Is there really a voltage slot difference between 4X and 8X? That really
could be serious if I am really supplying more voltage then I should to the
6800.

If I wanted to upgrade now and spend over $300 instead of under $100 and go
for 3+ GHz would I be better off in the long run bailing from AMD or not?

That $10 CPU cooler on NewEgg looked great. I bet they make one for a P4
too? And I bet they'd sell the Intel mb, P4, and memory too?

I've been using a nice square style mid-sized aluminum tower by Lian Li.
Do cases really make a noise difference? What is specifically good to look
for in a quiet case?

I haven't bought anything yet but I am getting kind of antsy. I'm tired of
a local friend telling how neat a game is with all the features turned up
and I discover I have to leave some features turned down.

Thanks for the help. I feel like spending some money now...but not the
bleeding-edge please.

Susan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>
> I couldn't find the psu data so I'll have to stand on my head--but I'm not
> going to do that just yet because...
>
> I just started playing Half-Life 2 and some of the automatically set
> options came out medium and the water reflections were set to simple.
> After playing for hours and shutting down for the night it took a long
> time
> and the Desktop graphics was screwed up for a minute until everything
> eventually settled down to normal. When I turned up the options that were
> set down the in-game graphics totally choked and I couldn't turn the game
> off normally but Ctrl-Alt-Del worked, as did Alt-Tab.
>
> I'm thinking (wondering) if this is also a result of trying to use an AGP
> 8X card on a 4X mb?
>
> Is there really a voltage slot difference between 4X and 8X? That really
> could be serious if I am really supplying more voltage then I should to
> the
> 6800.
>
> If I wanted to upgrade now and spend over $300 instead of under $100 and
> go
> for 3+ GHz would I be better off in the long run bailing from AMD or not?
>
> That $10 CPU cooler on NewEgg looked great. I bet they make one for a P4
> too? And I bet they'd sell the Intel mb, P4, and memory too?
>
> I've been using a nice square style mid-sized aluminum tower by Lian Li.
> Do cases really make a noise difference? What is specifically good to
> look
> for in a quiet case?
>
> I haven't bought anything yet but I am getting kind of antsy. I'm tired
> of
> a local friend telling how neat a game is with all the features turned up
> and I discover I have to leave some features turned down.
>
> Thanks for the help. I feel like spending some money now...but not the
> bleeding-edge please.
>
> Susan

Some 4X cards use the same voltage as 8X cards, but not all. So your 4X max
AGP slot could be supplying too much voltage to a 8X AGP card. Your choice
of Intel or AMD should be based entirely on how much you want to spend. If
you want to build an average system, your money is better spent on Intel.
If you want to go bleeding edge, then Intel is way over-priced. Yes, there
are good (and inexpensive) coolers for any processor you choose. If you
want to upgrade specifically for half-life 2 but not build bleeding edge,
then your choice is pretty simple:

P4 3.2 or 3.4GHz 800FSB 1Mcache processor on socket 478 865PE or 875 chipset
mainboard with 512MB of DDR400 RAM. OR:

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=13-123-217&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-116-176&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=20-144-309&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=35-103-139&depa=0
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-153-006&depa=0

The HSF above is really effective and quiet. Same with the power supply.
(don't recycle the power supply, but keep your current case) -Dave

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>significant improvement in performance on your system. But you COULD jump
>straight to a Athlon 64 or even Intel Pentium 4 system, if you want to.
>That would give you even better performance, but it'll cost you. To go with
>a faster socket A system might make more sense, as you can work on it a
>little at a time.

Would Intel give me better performance for the dollar then AMD? If I
wanted to make the jump to 3+ GHz is there something good out there that
will remain good enough for a year or two before the developers start
developing BTX only games?

>Onboard sound and LAN solutions are pretty decent. There is no need to
>upgrade.

So, I will retire my Live and LAN cards. That should make things less
complicated in the sound and BIOS departments. It would be nice to end up
with a mb this time that really spells out the Chipset/BIOS options. I'm
so tired of that always being such a mystery.

>The following is a good quiet cooler for socket A . . . either your current
>CPU or a faster one, if you decide to upgrade it. -Dave
>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-010&depa=0

Another cool NewEgg item. I'm going to do my whole upgrade from that
outfit it looks like.

I suspect at this point that I will be carrying over to the new system a
Lian Li aluminum mid-tower, two Maxtor HDDs, a Verbatim CD burner, a Sony
DVD burner, my Samsung SyncMaster 955DF, and of course, my nVidia 6800 AGP
8X with 128 MB DDR.

Susan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Susan wrote:

> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>
>
>>significant improvement in performance on your system. But you COULD jump
>>straight to a Athlon 64 or even Intel Pentium 4 system, if you want to.
>>That would give you even better performance, but it'll cost you. To go with
>>a faster socket A system might make more sense, as you can work on it a
>>little at a time.
>
>
> Would Intel give me better performance for the dollar then AMD? If I
> wanted to make the jump to 3+ GHz is there something good out there that
> will remain good enough for a year or two before the developers start
> developing BTX only games?

"BTX" has nothing to do with software.

The question for software is when will they start making 64 bit 'only'
stuff so that 32 bit processors can't run them?


>>Onboard sound and LAN solutions are pretty decent. There is no need to
>>upgrade.
>
>
> So, I will retire my Live and LAN cards. That should make things less
> complicated in the sound and BIOS departments. It would be nice to end up
> with a mb this time that really spells out the Chipset/BIOS options. I'm
> so tired of that always being such a mystery.
>
>
>>The following is a good quiet cooler for socket A . . . either your current
>>CPU or a faster one, if you decide to upgrade it. -Dave
>>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=35-150-010&depa=0
>
>
> Another cool NewEgg item. I'm going to do my whole upgrade from that
> outfit it looks like.
>
> I suspect at this point that I will be carrying over to the new system a
> Lian Li aluminum mid-tower, two Maxtor HDDs, a Verbatim CD burner, a Sony
> DVD burner, my Samsung SyncMaster 955DF, and of course, my nVidia 6800 AGP
> 8X with 128 MB DDR.
>
> Susan

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I think I will make it clear here, because I really haven't per se anywhere
else, that I am not interested in over-clocking anything or going with a
particular upgrade path that over-clocks anything in the future. Nor am I
interested in designing cooling ducting. But I must stick within the
software developer's envelope and right now at 1.1 GHz, possibly an AGP
4X-8X conflict, and possibly a week psu I strongly suspect the machine is
drifting out of that envelope and warranting some "adjustments".

If overclocking is no issue for me does that make it easier to realize that
Intel is the path to take over AMD?

Thanks.

Susan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Susan" <UCE@null.invalid> wrote in message
news:2uu4r09ogmvgnjse1cn5f8r1d9hmkbsmr4@4ax.com...
>I think I will make it clear here, because I really haven't per se anywhere
> else, that I am not interested in over-clocking anything or going with a
> particular upgrade path that over-clocks anything in the future. Nor am I
> interested in designing cooling ducting. But I must stick within the
> software developer's envelope and right now at 1.1 GHz, possibly an AGP
> 4X-8X conflict, and possibly a week psu I strongly suspect the machine is
> drifting out of that envelope and warranting some "adjustments".
>
> If overclocking is no issue for me does that make it easier to realize
> that
> Intel is the path to take over AMD?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Susan

Well, Intel is the path to take unless you want to spend a -lot- of money.
For the average system, Intel is a better deal, at the moment. -Dave

According to www.pricewatch.com, same price range at the moment would be:

P4 3.2 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3200+ or

P4 3.4 Prescott vs. Athlon64 3400+

Beyond that range, you can pay up to several hundred dollars for either an
Intel or AMD chip, but hardly anybody gives a damn about those chips, as
hardly anybody spends as much on a processor as they do on the entire rest
of their system combined.

So the P4 3.2/3.4 and Athlon64 3200/3400 would be the best indicators of who
has the best bang for buck, at the moment.

Gaming: OpenGL: The Intel chips are much faster
Gaming: DX8: The AMD chips are faster, no doubt about it
Gaming: DX9: It's virtually a tie, as the AMD chips are two to three
TENTHS of a percentage point faster than Intel.
So on the gaming benchmarks, that's one win for Intel, one win for AMD and
one tie.
GAMING OVERALL: TIED

Business Applications: Office Applications: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Internet Content Creation: Intel blows AMD away
Business Applications: Overall: Intel blows AMD away

Video Encoding: This one is so lopsided, AMD should have thrown in the
towel before entering the ring. Intel wins by a landslide.

Audio Encoding: Again, Intel wins by a landslide

Synthetic Benchmarks: (PC Mark 2004): Here, Intel blows AMD away on both
*CPU* and memory benchmarks

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040322/index.html

Even at the same price for CPU, an Intel system can be cheaper to
build, as the P4 boards are more mature at this point, and thus there are
better bargains to be found. Considering that an Intel system will likely
be cheaper to build and WILL perform better on all benchmarks except DX8,
it's kind of a no-brainer as to which chip to build with, at the moment.

The following is an article on the Athlon 64 2800+. But more interesting
is,
the benchmarks included in the article are a GREAT comparison of the 3.2GHz
P4
processors with the Athlon64 3200+. In this article, these two processors
are
pretty evenly matched, with Intel being faster on some benchmarks, and AMD
being faster on others.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=2038&p=1

Now lets look at what Sharky Extreme has to report in their article about
the
3.4GHz Prescott processor. This one has benchmarks that are a great
comparison
of the 3.4GHz Intel chips with the Athlon64 3400+. Here, you have to be
careful,
as Sharky doesn't organize their charts in order of fastest to slowest. And
on
some charts, LOWER scores are better. But if you read all the benchmarks,
you
will again notice that the two chips are pretty evenly matched, with AMD
faster
on some and Intel faster on others.

http://www.sharkyextreme.com/hardware/cpu/article.php/3261_3329681__1

Intel is better than AMD, at the moment. The only way AMD could change that
would be to drop their prices by 30% or better. -Dave, updated 10/19/04

 

[Susan]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:

>That doesn't mean I'm thrilled with it but 'BTX' is only a small piece of
>the 'problem' because, after the next year or two, there will be literally
>nothing reusable. All 'legacy' devices gone: no ISA cards (already), serial
>ports, parallel ports, PS2, etc. SATA will replace IDE and PCI-Express will
>replace AGP/PCI. You're complaining about, as you put it, a ~$20 case when
>there's not a single AGP/PCI card you'll be able to reuse. And then, just
>to make sure it's as painful as possible, all existing software will be
>rendered 'obsolete' by 64 bit.

So, this might be a pretty good time to make a standard (non-overclocking)
upgrade to last another couple years? I presume 32 bit software will still
come out with its 64 bit newer counterpart.

Is just like HD TV today? There is some neat HD programming for it but
I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $3K for the TV set. I figure $1K tops.
Meanwhile everything will go HD but will still play on older analog TVs
too--won't it?

Susan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>
> So, this might be a pretty good time to make a standard (non-overclocking)
> upgrade to last another couple years? I presume 32 bit software will
> still
> come out with its 64 bit newer counterpart.
>
> Is just like HD TV today? There is some neat HD programming for it but
> I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $3K for the TV set. I figure $1K tops.
> Meanwhile everything will go HD but will still play on older analog TVs
> too--won't it?
>
> Susan

ANY time is a good time to make an upgrade to last another couple of years.
If you always look forward to new technology, you will never build. By the
time you actually need (note: NEED) 64 bit hardware, anything you build in
2004 will be at least 10 years old. Or in other words, it will be worn out
and/or 8 years obsolete before you need to replace it with something 64 bit.
You'll probably build your next three or four systems before you REQUIRE
hardware that is 64 bits. That doesn't mean you can't build a 64-bit system
today. Just that the killer app software that you will want to run and that
REQUIRES 64-bit hardware hasn't even been imagined yet. It will take
several years to develop that software, whatever it is. Yes, there are
64-bit operating systems, gold and beta, right now. But it will be several
years before you want to buy a software package that will ONLY run on a
64-bit version of Windows. -Dave

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Susan wrote:

> David Maynard <dNOTmayn@ev1.net> wrote:
>
>
>>That doesn't mean I'm thrilled with it but 'BTX' is only a small piece of
>>the 'problem' because, after the next year or two, there will be literally
>>nothing reusable. All 'legacy' devices gone: no ISA cards (already), serial
>>ports, parallel ports, PS2, etc. SATA will replace IDE and PCI-Express will
>>replace AGP/PCI. You're complaining about, as you put it, a ~$20 case when
>>there's not a single AGP/PCI card you'll be able to reuse. And then, just
>>to make sure it's as painful as possible, all existing software will be
>>rendered 'obsolete' by 64 bit.
>
>
> So, this might be a pretty good time to make a standard (non-overclocking)
> upgrade to last another couple years?

That's a loaded question but, in general, the decision should be based on
your current needs because if you try to 'wait' for whatever 'the future'
is you'll be perpetually waiting as there's always something even newer
'just around the corner'.

So, as for 'now' being a 'pretty good time', I don't know that it's
necessarily any better or worse but it does become a serious issue next
year, depending on what one considers the life of the machine to be, as
that will be nearer the cusp of the transition.

> I presume 32 bit software will still
> come out with its 64 bit newer counterpart.

Likely, as there will remain a huge installed 32 bit base for a fair amount
of time.


> Is just like HD TV today? There is some neat HD programming for it but
> I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $3K for the TV set. I figure $1K tops.
> Meanwhile everything will go HD but will still play on older analog TVs
> too--won't it?

Oh brother did you bring up a debacle: HDTV. We were supposed to have
stampeded all over each other buying the things in droves by now but, to
the industry and government's surprise, the vast majority of folks felt
like you do; that going from a 400 buck TV set to a 4,000 buck TV set was a
bit of a leap no matter *how* 'wonderful' the picture is.

I'd have to recheck because Congress has been holding new hearings on it
(because it just ain't happening like they planned) but the original plan
was that analog broadcast would disappear completely in 2006, after which
the hype was you'd be able to buy an 'inexpensive' set top converter but
I'm not so sure that a converter costing as much as an entire 32 inch
stereo TV set ($300-$400) qualifies as 'inexpensive'.

That 'end of analog' mandate only applies to broadcast so cable companies
can continue analog if they chose to.

However, to answer your question "but will still play on older analog TVs?"
No. An analog TV cannot decode HD signals.

>
> Susan

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Dave C. wrote:

>>So, this might be a pretty good time to make a standard (non-overclocking)
>>upgrade to last another couple years? I presume 32 bit software will
>>still
>>come out with its 64 bit newer counterpart.
>>
>>Is just like HD TV today? There is some neat HD programming for it but
>>I'll be damned if I'm going to pay $3K for the TV set. I figure $1K tops.
>>Meanwhile everything will go HD but will still play on older analog TVs
>>too--won't it?
>>
>>Susan
>
>
> ANY time is a good time to make an upgrade to last another couple of years.
> If you always look forward to new technology, you will never build. By the
> time you actually need (note: NEED) 64 bit hardware, anything you build in
> 2004 will be at least 10 years old. Or in other words, it will be worn out
> and/or 8 years obsolete before you need to replace it with something 64 bit.
> You'll probably build your next three or four systems before you REQUIRE
> hardware that is 64 bits. That doesn't mean you can't build a 64-bit system
> today. Just that the killer app software that you will want to run and that
> REQUIRES 64-bit hardware hasn't even been imagined yet. It will take
> several years to develop that software, whatever it is. Yes, there are
> 64-bit operating systems, gold and beta, right now. But it will be several
> years before you want to buy a software package that will ONLY run on a
> 64-bit version of Windows. -Dave
>
>

Well, in general principle I agree but I think your 10 year time frame is
way off base as the transition from 16 bit to 32 bit certainly didn't take
10 years, or else it won't happen till next year as Windows 95 came out in
1995, and things tend to speed up, not go slower.

I use Windows 95 as the demarcation point because it's software, not having
an 'x bit' processor, that really counts.

You may not 'need' 64 bit hardware/software in 10 years but just try to
find any 32 bit software released in 2014; like trying *now* to find a 16
bit Windows 3.1 version of anything new.

3 to 4 years, perhaps, but after 5 I think you'd really start to feel
'antiquity' setting in.

Now, I suppose some might say that the next Windows, supposedly '64 bit',
will be more like Windows 3.1 with the 32 bit 'extension' added and, so, is
not really going to be the 64 bit demarcation point.