Celeron vs Prescott vs Northwood?

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I think I've settled on a socket 478 mobo.

What are the main considerations in choosing between a Celeron/P4
Prescott/P4 Northwood?

They seem to be priced in this order (low-to-high).

Anything around 2.5G would be plenty fast, since I'm currently running a
233 MHz Celeron right now.

-Pat
4 answers Last reply
More about celeron prescott northwood
  1. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    "Pat Coghlan" <coghlan@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
    news:wR0wd.11093$pb.829749@news20.bellglobal.com...

    " I think I've settled on a socket 478 mobo. "

    Have a look at LGA775 with PCI-Express too.
    http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/index.html


    " What are the main considerations in choosing between a Celeron/P4
    Prescott/P4 Northwood? "

    Celeron = small L2 cache
    P4 Northwood = large L2 cache
    P4 Prescott = Northwood's successor, but no great performance advantage on
    skt478. Runs hotter than Northwood.

    http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/index.html
  2. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    P3-Celeron:
    o Large cache (256KB) + Short Pipeline = Fast performance
    ---- example - Tualatin 1.2Ghz P3-Celeron were good performers

    Old generation P4-Celeron:
    o Small cache (128KB) + Long Pipeline = Stalled performance
    ---- benefit is ease of upgrade to higher speed P4 CPUs (plug them in)

    New generation P4-Celeron (eg, 325D)
    o Larger cache (512KB) + Longer Pipeline = Better performance
    ---- typically 10-30% quicker than same clock-speed old P4-Celeron

    Old generation P4-Northwood
    o Large cache (512KB) + Long Pipeline = Good performance
    ---- idle dissipation 35W+, max dissipation 75-90W

    New generation P4-Prescott
    o Larger cache (1024KB) + Longer Pipeline = Similar performance
    ---- on a few things a tiny bit quicker, on others a tiny bit slower
    ---- idle dissipation 50W+, max dissipation 80-110W


    A Prescott will run a little hotter, however that just requires some
    care in the integration at the Case + Motherboard + CPU (System).
    o CPU-Cooler intake air temp on a P4-Prescott should be <38oC
    ---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <38oC
    ---- so exhaust fans need to remove CPU-cooler heated air fast enough
    o CPU-Cooler intake air temp has 2 figures for noise level on Intel boards
    ---- low speed operation the intake air temp is <32oC, full speed is at >38oC
    ---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <32oC for low noise

    Prescott run hotter (despite the drop in die size) since they have a higher
    idle dissipation due to higher leakage current from a strained silicon basis.
    The thermal difference is often overplayed, more an issue with old cases.

    Since you are moving from a Cel-II/Cel-III...
    o CPU-benefit -- P2-366 to P4-Celeron 2.4Ghz is ~10x faster on CPU
    o I/O- benefit -- Depends on whether you are upgrading the HD also

    When I upgraded from a P2-366 laptop to P4-Cel-2400 laptop I barely noticed
    any speed difference because the HD was still 4200rpm (laptop 2.5") and most
    of my work is I/O bound. I noticed screen redraws & computation were quicker,
    but the biggest bottleneck for me was the actual hard-drive itself (little changed).

    So which to choose similarly depends on your application:
    o For general office use the P4-Celeron is fine
    ---- additionally you can upgrade to a full higher-speed P4 later
    ---- eg, a board taking 2.0Ghz Celeron typically takes 3.2Ghz P4 HT (2x quicker)
    o You may also want to upgrade your hard-drive
    ---- you may have a small (low data-density) <10GB 5400rpm HD
    ---- in which case look for a higher capacity (higher data-density) 7200rpm HD

    So it is important to distribute the spend around components - paying attention
    to which is the most likely bottleneck. For many people, games aside, it tends to
    be the hard-drive - P4s can move >6000MB/sec, a HD can barely do 40MB/sec.

    An economic solution using Ebay:
    o Pick up a quality Socket 478 motherboard -- eg, Asus or Intel D845 series
    ---- you can fit Celeron or Northwood P4s into that board from 2.0Ghz to 3.0-3.4Ghz
    o Pick up a Celeron 2.4Ghz used or P4-1.8/2.0Ghz -- both are quite cheap
    o If running XP/XP-Pro consider 384MB as the minimum (256MB ok for Win2k)

    If buying brand new online/store:
    o Intel LGA775 has replaced Socket 478 -- however LGA775 chips are "new generation"
    ---- so they have higher cooling requirements - and price tags
    o Celeron is still adequate for most purposes
    ---- check carefully on price - Celeron are a bit overpriced vs P4/AMD solutions

    Re storage, PSU:
    o Seagate 7200rpm are good reliable drives
    ---- WD Raptor drives are *feelably faster* - a rarity with PC upgrades
    o Sparkle/Fortron/FSP-Group PSUs are good quality units
    ---- no special gloss paint or 1/2-megawatt peak power output, just a reliable unit

    There are AMD solutions:
    o Sempron is basically an AMD Athlon XP -- it's a good + proven processor
    ---- faster than a Celeron, lower heat output
    o With AMD the motherboard/chipset matter
    ---- look for a good brand like Asus or nVidia

    If games are your concern the AMD platform is faster for less money.
    If general office/business/home the Intel Celeron platform will perform fine - it will
    not be slow, remember it will do computations ~10x quicker than your present PC.

    If you find most of your current time is spent waiting for the hard-drive (as in seconds
    as opposed to fractions of a second) I would personally consider a WD Raptor drive.
    Otherwise a Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm unit would be quite adequate & well proven.

    I would price out:
    o Good P4 board (eg, Asus/Intel) + Celeron 2.4Ghz
    o Good Sempron board (eg, Asus/nVidia) + Sempron 2600

    Then consider if you also need/want to u/g the hard-drive - which for many people
    is an oft neglected performance bottleneck. Additionally, it is worth changing your
    HD every 3-4yrs simply due to bath-tub failure curve - it is the data that matters :-)

    Onboard graphics are most likely going to be fine - they are quite fast these days
    even for low end games usage, more than enough for any business purposes.
    --
    Dorothy Bradbury
    www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans
  3. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    Excellent post. You've made me reconsider a Celeron. I rather like the
    idea of using a cheaper CPU for now, and upgrading to a fast P4...if and
    when we need one.

    Our needs are strickly applications, not gaming or video editing.

    Dorothy Bradbury wrote:

    >P3-Celeron:
    >o Large cache (256KB) + Short Pipeline = Fast performance
    >---- example - Tualatin 1.2Ghz P3-Celeron were good performers
    >
    >Old generation P4-Celeron:
    >o Small cache (128KB) + Long Pipeline = Stalled performance
    >---- benefit is ease of upgrade to higher speed P4 CPUs (plug them in)
    >
    >New generation P4-Celeron (eg, 325D)
    >o Larger cache (512KB) + Longer Pipeline = Better performance
    >---- typically 10-30% quicker than same clock-speed old P4-Celeron
    >
    >Old generation P4-Northwood
    >o Large cache (512KB) + Long Pipeline = Good performance
    >---- idle dissipation 35W+, max dissipation 75-90W
    >
    >New generation P4-Prescott
    >o Larger cache (1024KB) + Longer Pipeline = Similar performance
    >---- on a few things a tiny bit quicker, on others a tiny bit slower
    >---- idle dissipation 50W+, max dissipation 80-110W
    >
    >
    >A Prescott will run a little hotter, however that just requires some
    >care in the integration at the Case + Motherboard + CPU (System).
    >o CPU-Cooler intake air temp on a P4-Prescott should be <38oC
    >---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <38oC
    >---- so exhaust fans need to remove CPU-cooler heated air fast enough
    >o CPU-Cooler intake air temp has 2 figures for noise level on Intel boards
    >---- low speed operation the intake air temp is <32oC, full speed is at >38oC
    >---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <32oC for low noise
    >
    >Prescott run hotter (despite the drop in die size) since they have a higher
    >idle dissipation due to higher leakage current from a strained silicon basis.
    >The thermal difference is often overplayed, more an issue with old cases.
    >
    >Since you are moving from a Cel-II/Cel-III...
    >o CPU-benefit -- P2-366 to P4-Celeron 2.4Ghz is ~10x faster on CPU
    >o I/O- benefit -- Depends on whether you are upgrading the HD also
    >
    >When I upgraded from a P2-366 laptop to P4-Cel-2400 laptop I barely noticed
    >any speed difference because the HD was still 4200rpm (laptop 2.5") and most
    >of my work is I/O bound. I noticed screen redraws & computation were quicker,
    >but the biggest bottleneck for me was the actual hard-drive itself (little changed).
    >
    >So which to choose similarly depends on your application:
    >o For general office use the P4-Celeron is fine
    >---- additionally you can upgrade to a full higher-speed P4 later
    >---- eg, a board taking 2.0Ghz Celeron typically takes 3.2Ghz P4 HT (2x quicker)
    >o You may also want to upgrade your hard-drive
    >---- you may have a small (low data-density) <10GB 5400rpm HD
    >---- in which case look for a higher capacity (higher data-density) 7200rpm HD
    >
    >So it is important to distribute the spend around components - paying attention
    >to which is the most likely bottleneck. For many people, games aside, it tends to
    >be the hard-drive - P4s can move >6000MB/sec, a HD can barely do 40MB/sec.
    >
    >An economic solution using Ebay:
    >o Pick up a quality Socket 478 motherboard -- eg, Asus or Intel D845 series
    >---- you can fit Celeron or Northwood P4s into that board from 2.0Ghz to 3.0-3.4Ghz
    >o Pick up a Celeron 2.4Ghz used or P4-1.8/2.0Ghz -- both are quite cheap
    >o If running XP/XP-Pro consider 384MB as the minimum (256MB ok for Win2k)
    >
    >If buying brand new online/store:
    >o Intel LGA775 has replaced Socket 478 -- however LGA775 chips are "new generation"
    >---- so they have higher cooling requirements - and price tags
    >o Celeron is still adequate for most purposes
    >---- check carefully on price - Celeron are a bit overpriced vs P4/AMD solutions
    >
    >Re storage, PSU:
    >o Seagate 7200rpm are good reliable drives
    >---- WD Raptor drives are *feelably faster* - a rarity with PC upgrades
    >o Sparkle/Fortron/FSP-Group PSUs are good quality units
    >---- no special gloss paint or 1/2-megawatt peak power output, just a reliable unit
    >
    >There are AMD solutions:
    >o Sempron is basically an AMD Athlon XP -- it's a good + proven processor
    >---- faster than a Celeron, lower heat output
    >o With AMD the motherboard/chipset matter
    >---- look for a good brand like Asus or nVidia
    >
    >If games are your concern the AMD platform is faster for less money.
    >If general office/business/home the Intel Celeron platform will perform fine - it will
    >not be slow, remember it will do computations ~10x quicker than your present PC.
    >
    >If you find most of your current time is spent waiting for the hard-drive (as in seconds
    >as opposed to fractions of a second) I would personally consider a WD Raptor drive.
    >Otherwise a Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm unit would be quite adequate & well proven.
    >
    >I would price out:
    >o Good P4 board (eg, Asus/Intel) + Celeron 2.4Ghz
    >o Good Sempron board (eg, Asus/nVidia) + Sempron 2600
    >
    >Then consider if you also need/want to u/g the hard-drive - which for many people
    >is an oft neglected performance bottleneck. Additionally, it is worth changing your
    >HD every 3-4yrs simply due to bath-tub failure curve - it is the data that matters :-)
    >
    >Onboard graphics are most likely going to be fine - they are quite fast these days
    >even for low end games usage, more than enough for any business purposes.
    >
    >
  4. Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

    > Excellent post. You've made me reconsider a Celeron. I rather
    > like the idea of using a cheaper CPU for now, and upgrading to
    > a fast P4...if and when we need one.

    By which time the P4 will have depreciated still further, yet your old
    Celeron depreciates to a relatively baseline level as "still a usable CPU".

    Example:
    o P4-2.8 ---- 2yrs ago £320 v £120 today
    ---- can buy P4-2.8 now for £85 on Ebay
    o P4-2.0 ---- 2yrs ago £65 v £55 today
    ---- can sell P4-Cel now for £25 = lose £40-30
    ---- can buy P4-2.8 for £60 more

    Early adoption is expensive.

    > Our needs are strickly applications, not gaming or video editing.

    Celeron should be fine - and loss on the sunk cost when you sell it
    will be relatively small, yet the future potential upgrade gain large.
    --
    Dorothy Bradbury
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