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Celeron vs Prescott vs Northwood?

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 15, 2004 6:08:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I think I've settled on a socket 478 mobo.

What are the main considerations in choosing between a Celeron/P4
Prescott/P4 Northwood?

They seem to be priced in this order (low-to-high).

Anything around 2.5G would be plenty fast, since I'm currently running a
233 MHz Celeron right now.

-Pat
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 16, 2004 3:59:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Pat Coghlan" <coghlan@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:wR0wd.11093$pb.829749@news20.bellglobal.com...

" I think I've settled on a socket 478 mobo. "

Have a look at LGA775 with PCI-Express too.
http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040619/index...


" What are the main considerations in choosing between a Celeron/P4
Prescott/P4 Northwood? "

Celeron = small L2 cache
P4 Northwood = large L2 cache
P4 Prescott = Northwood's successor, but no great performance advantage on
skt478. Runs hotter than Northwood.

http://www6.tomshardware.com/cpu/20040201/index.html
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 16, 2004 11:57:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

P3-Celeron:
o Large cache (256KB) + Short Pipeline = Fast performance
---- example - Tualatin 1.2Ghz P3-Celeron were good performers

Old generation P4-Celeron:
o Small cache (128KB) + Long Pipeline = Stalled performance
---- benefit is ease of upgrade to higher speed P4 CPUs (plug them in)

New generation P4-Celeron (eg, 325D)
o Larger cache (512KB) + Longer Pipeline = Better performance
---- typically 10-30% quicker than same clock-speed old P4-Celeron

Old generation P4-Northwood
o Large cache (512KB) + Long Pipeline = Good performance
---- idle dissipation 35W+, max dissipation 75-90W

New generation P4-Prescott
o Larger cache (1024KB) + Longer Pipeline = Similar performance
---- on a few things a tiny bit quicker, on others a tiny bit slower
---- idle dissipation 50W+, max dissipation 80-110W


A Prescott will run a little hotter, however that just requires some
care in the integration at the Case + Motherboard + CPU (System).
o CPU-Cooler intake air temp on a P4-Prescott should be <38oC
---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <38oC
---- so exhaust fans need to remove CPU-cooler heated air fast enough
o CPU-Cooler intake air temp has 2 figures for noise level on Intel boards
---- low speed operation the intake air temp is <32oC, full speed is at >38oC
---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <32oC for low noise

Prescott run hotter (despite the drop in die size) since they have a higher
idle dissipation due to higher leakage current from a strained silicon basis.
The thermal difference is often overplayed, more an issue with old cases.

Since you are moving from a Cel-II/Cel-III...
o CPU-benefit -- P2-366 to P4-Celeron 2.4Ghz is ~10x faster on CPU
o I/O- benefit -- Depends on whether you are upgrading the HD also

When I upgraded from a P2-366 laptop to P4-Cel-2400 laptop I barely noticed
any speed difference because the HD was still 4200rpm (laptop 2.5") and most
of my work is I/O bound. I noticed screen redraws & computation were quicker,
but the biggest bottleneck for me was the actual hard-drive itself (little changed).

So which to choose similarly depends on your application:
o For general office use the P4-Celeron is fine
---- additionally you can upgrade to a full higher-speed P4 later
---- eg, a board taking 2.0Ghz Celeron typically takes 3.2Ghz P4 HT (2x quicker)
o You may also want to upgrade your hard-drive
---- you may have a small (low data-density) <10GB 5400rpm HD
---- in which case look for a higher capacity (higher data-density) 7200rpm HD

So it is important to distribute the spend around components - paying attention
to which is the most likely bottleneck. For many people, games aside, it tends to
be the hard-drive - P4s can move >6000MB/sec, a HD can barely do 40MB/sec.

An economic solution using Ebay:
o Pick up a quality Socket 478 motherboard -- eg, Asus or Intel D845 series
---- you can fit Celeron or Northwood P4s into that board from 2.0Ghz to 3.0-3.4Ghz
o Pick up a Celeron 2.4Ghz used or P4-1.8/2.0Ghz -- both are quite cheap
o If running XP/XP-Pro consider 384MB as the minimum (256MB ok for Win2k)

If buying brand new online/store:
o Intel LGA775 has replaced Socket 478 -- however LGA775 chips are "new generation"
---- so they have higher cooling requirements - and price tags
o Celeron is still adequate for most purposes
---- check carefully on price - Celeron are a bit overpriced vs P4/AMD solutions

Re storage, PSU:
o Seagate 7200rpm are good reliable drives
---- WD Raptor drives are *feelably faster* - a rarity with PC upgrades
o Sparkle/Fortron/FSP-Group PSUs are good quality units
---- no special gloss paint or 1/2-megawatt peak power output, just a reliable unit

There are AMD solutions:
o Sempron is basically an AMD Athlon XP -- it's a good + proven processor
---- faster than a Celeron, lower heat output
o With AMD the motherboard/chipset matter
---- look for a good brand like Asus or nVidia

If games are your concern the AMD platform is faster for less money.
If general office/business/home the Intel Celeron platform will perform fine - it will
not be slow, remember it will do computations ~10x quicker than your present PC.

If you find most of your current time is spent waiting for the hard-drive (as in seconds
as opposed to fractions of a second) I would personally consider a WD Raptor drive.
Otherwise a Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm unit would be quite adequate & well proven.

I would price out:
o Good P4 board (eg, Asus/Intel) + Celeron 2.4Ghz
o Good Sempron board (eg, Asus/nVidia) + Sempron 2600

Then consider if you also need/want to u/g the hard-drive - which for many people
is an oft neglected performance bottleneck. Additionally, it is worth changing your
HD every 3-4yrs simply due to bath-tub failure curve - it is the data that matters :-)

Onboard graphics are most likely going to be fine - they are quite fast these days
even for low end games usage, more than enough for any business purposes.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
www.dorothybradbury.co.uk for quiet Panaflo fans
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 17, 2004 2:11:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Excellent post. You've made me reconsider a Celeron. I rather like the
idea of using a cheaper CPU for now, and upgrading to a fast P4...if and
when we need one.

Our needs are strickly applications, not gaming or video editing.

Dorothy Bradbury wrote:

>P3-Celeron:
>o Large cache (256KB) + Short Pipeline = Fast performance
>---- example - Tualatin 1.2Ghz P3-Celeron were good performers
>
>Old generation P4-Celeron:
>o Small cache (128KB) + Long Pipeline = Stalled performance
>---- benefit is ease of upgrade to higher speed P4 CPUs (plug them in)
>
>New generation P4-Celeron (eg, 325D)
>o Larger cache (512KB) + Longer Pipeline = Better performance
>---- typically 10-30% quicker than same clock-speed old P4-Celeron
>
>Old generation P4-Northwood
>o Large cache (512KB) + Long Pipeline = Good performance
>---- idle dissipation 35W+, max dissipation 75-90W
>
>New generation P4-Prescott
>o Larger cache (1024KB) + Longer Pipeline = Similar performance
>---- on a few things a tiny bit quicker, on others a tiny bit slower
>---- idle dissipation 50W+, max dissipation 80-110W
>
>
>A Prescott will run a little hotter, however that just requires some
>care in the integration at the Case + Motherboard + CPU (System).
>o CPU-Cooler intake air temp on a P4-Prescott should be <38oC
>---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <38oC
>---- so exhaust fans need to remove CPU-cooler heated air fast enough
>o CPU-Cooler intake air temp has 2 figures for noise level on Intel boards
>---- low speed operation the intake air temp is <32oC, full speed is at >38oC
>---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <32oC for low noise
>
>Prescott run hotter (despite the drop in die size) since they have a higher
>idle dissipation due to higher leakage current from a strained silicon basis.
>The thermal difference is often overplayed, more an issue with old cases.
>
>Since you are moving from a Cel-II/Cel-III...
>o CPU-benefit -- P2-366 to P4-Celeron 2.4Ghz is ~10x faster on CPU
>o I/O- benefit -- Depends on whether you are upgrading the HD also
>
>When I upgraded from a P2-366 laptop to P4-Cel-2400 laptop I barely noticed
>any speed difference because the HD was still 4200rpm (laptop 2.5") and most
>of my work is I/O bound. I noticed screen redraws & computation were quicker,
>but the biggest bottleneck for me was the actual hard-drive itself (little changed).
>
>So which to choose similarly depends on your application:
>o For general office use the P4-Celeron is fine
>---- additionally you can upgrade to a full higher-speed P4 later
>---- eg, a board taking 2.0Ghz Celeron typically takes 3.2Ghz P4 HT (2x quicker)
>o You may also want to upgrade your hard-drive
>---- you may have a small (low data-density) <10GB 5400rpm HD
>---- in which case look for a higher capacity (higher data-density) 7200rpm HD
>
>So it is important to distribute the spend around components - paying attention
>to which is the most likely bottleneck. For many people, games aside, it tends to
>be the hard-drive - P4s can move >6000MB/sec, a HD can barely do 40MB/sec.
>
>An economic solution using Ebay:
>o Pick up a quality Socket 478 motherboard -- eg, Asus or Intel D845 series
>---- you can fit Celeron or Northwood P4s into that board from 2.0Ghz to 3.0-3.4Ghz
>o Pick up a Celeron 2.4Ghz used or P4-1.8/2.0Ghz -- both are quite cheap
>o If running XP/XP-Pro consider 384MB as the minimum (256MB ok for Win2k)
>
>If buying brand new online/store:
>o Intel LGA775 has replaced Socket 478 -- however LGA775 chips are "new generation"
>---- so they have higher cooling requirements - and price tags
>o Celeron is still adequate for most purposes
>---- check carefully on price - Celeron are a bit overpriced vs P4/AMD solutions
>
>Re storage, PSU:
>o Seagate 7200rpm are good reliable drives
>---- WD Raptor drives are *feelably faster* - a rarity with PC upgrades
>o Sparkle/Fortron/FSP-Group PSUs are good quality units
>---- no special gloss paint or 1/2-megawatt peak power output, just a reliable unit
>
>There are AMD solutions:
>o Sempron is basically an AMD Athlon XP -- it's a good + proven processor
>---- faster than a Celeron, lower heat output
>o With AMD the motherboard/chipset matter
>---- look for a good brand like Asus or nVidia
>
>If games are your concern the AMD platform is faster for less money.
>If general office/business/home the Intel Celeron platform will perform fine - it will
>not be slow, remember it will do computations ~10x quicker than your present PC.
>
>If you find most of your current time is spent waiting for the hard-drive (as in seconds
>as opposed to fractions of a second) I would personally consider a WD Raptor drive.
>Otherwise a Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm unit would be quite adequate & well proven.
>
>I would price out:
>o Good P4 board (eg, Asus/Intel) + Celeron 2.4Ghz
>o Good Sempron board (eg, Asus/nVidia) + Sempron 2600
>
>Then consider if you also need/want to u/g the hard-drive - which for many people
>is an oft neglected performance bottleneck. Additionally, it is worth changing your
>HD every 3-4yrs simply due to bath-tub failure curve - it is the data that matters :-)
>
>Onboard graphics are most likely going to be fine - they are quite fast these days
>even for low end games usage, more than enough for any business purposes.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 17, 2004 10:21:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> Excellent post. You've made me reconsider a Celeron. I rather
> like the idea of using a cheaper CPU for now, and upgrading to
> a fast P4...if and when we need one.

By which time the P4 will have depreciated still further, yet your old
Celeron depreciates to a relatively baseline level as "still a usable CPU".

Example:
o P4-2.8 ---- 2yrs ago £320 v £120 today
---- can buy P4-2.8 now for £85 on Ebay
o P4-2.0 ---- 2yrs ago £65 v £55 today
---- can sell P4-Cel now for £25 = lose £40-30
---- can buy P4-2.8 for £60 more

Early adoption is expensive.

> Our needs are strickly applications, not gaming or video editing.

Celeron should be fine - and loss on the sunk cost when you sell it
will be relatively small, yet the future potential upgrade gain large.
--
Dorothy Bradbury
!