Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (
More info?)
Excellent post. You've made me reconsider a Celeron. I rather like the
idea of using a cheaper CPU for now, and upgrading to a fast P4...if and
when we need one.
Our needs are strickly applications, not gaming or video editing.
Dorothy Bradbury wrote:
>P3-Celeron:
>o Large cache (256KB) + Short Pipeline = Fast performance
>---- example - Tualatin 1.2Ghz P3-Celeron were good performers
>
>Old generation P4-Celeron:
>o Small cache (128KB) + Long Pipeline = Stalled performance
>---- benefit is ease of upgrade to higher speed P4 CPUs (plug them in)
>
>New generation P4-Celeron (eg, 325D)
>o Larger cache (512KB) + Longer Pipeline = Better performance
>---- typically 10-30% quicker than same clock-speed old P4-Celeron
>
>Old generation P4-Northwood
>o Large cache (512KB) + Long Pipeline = Good performance
>---- idle dissipation 35W+, max dissipation 75-90W
>
>New generation P4-Prescott
>o Larger cache (1024KB) + Longer Pipeline = Similar performance
>---- on a few things a tiny bit quicker, on others a tiny bit slower
>---- idle dissipation 50W+, max dissipation 80-110W
>
>
>A Prescott will run a little hotter, however that just requires some
>care in the integration at the Case + Motherboard + CPU (System).
>o CPU-Cooler intake air temp on a P4-Prescott should be <38oC
>---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <38oC
>---- so exhaust fans need to remove CPU-cooler heated air fast enough
>o CPU-Cooler intake air temp has 2 figures for noise level on Intel boards
>---- low speed operation the intake air temp is <32oC, full speed is at >38oC
>---- so reported case temperature should be maintained <32oC for low noise
>
>Prescott run hotter (despite the drop in die size) since they have a higher
>idle dissipation due to higher leakage current from a strained silicon basis.
>The thermal difference is often overplayed, more an issue with old cases.
>
>Since you are moving from a Cel-II/Cel-III...
>o CPU-benefit -- P2-366 to P4-Celeron 2.4Ghz is ~10x faster on CPU
>o I/O- benefit -- Depends on whether you are upgrading the HD also
>
>When I upgraded from a P2-366 laptop to P4-Cel-2400 laptop I barely noticed
>any speed difference because the HD was still 4200rpm (laptop 2.5") and most
>of my work is I/O bound. I noticed screen redraws & computation were quicker,
>but the biggest bottleneck for me was the actual hard-drive itself (little changed).
>
>So which to choose similarly depends on your application:
>o For general office use the P4-Celeron is fine
>---- additionally you can upgrade to a full higher-speed P4 later
>---- eg, a board taking 2.0Ghz Celeron typically takes 3.2Ghz P4 HT (2x quicker)
>o You may also want to upgrade your hard-drive
>---- you may have a small (low data-density) <10GB 5400rpm HD
>---- in which case look for a higher capacity (higher data-density) 7200rpm HD
>
>So it is important to distribute the spend around components - paying attention
>to which is the most likely bottleneck. For many people, games aside, it tends to
>be the hard-drive - P4s can move >6000MB/sec, a HD can barely do 40MB/sec.
>
>An economic solution using Ebay:
>o Pick up a quality Socket 478 motherboard -- eg, Asus or Intel D845 series
>---- you can fit Celeron or Northwood P4s into that board from 2.0Ghz to 3.0-3.4Ghz
>o Pick up a Celeron 2.4Ghz used or P4-1.8/2.0Ghz -- both are quite cheap
>o If running XP/XP-Pro consider 384MB as the minimum (256MB ok for Win2k)
>
>If buying brand new online/store:
>o Intel LGA775 has replaced Socket 478 -- however LGA775 chips are "new generation"
>---- so they have higher cooling requirements - and price tags
>o Celeron is still adequate for most purposes
>---- check carefully on price - Celeron are a bit overpriced vs P4/AMD solutions
>
>Re storage, PSU:
>o Seagate 7200rpm are good reliable drives
>---- WD Raptor drives are *feelably faster* - a rarity with PC upgrades
>o Sparkle/Fortron/FSP-Group PSUs are good quality units
>---- no special gloss paint or 1/2-megawatt peak power output, just a reliable unit
>
>There are AMD solutions:
>o Sempron is basically an AMD Athlon XP -- it's a good + proven processor
>---- faster than a Celeron, lower heat output
>o With AMD the motherboard/chipset matter
>---- look for a good brand like Asus or nVidia
>
>If games are your concern the AMD platform is faster for less money.
>If general office/business/home the Intel Celeron platform will perform fine - it will
>not be slow, remember it will do computations ~10x quicker than your present PC.
>
>If you find most of your current time is spent waiting for the hard-drive (as in seconds
>as opposed to fractions of a second) I would personally consider a WD Raptor drive.
>Otherwise a Seagate Barracuda 7200rpm unit would be quite adequate & well proven.
>
>I would price out:
>o Good P4 board (eg, Asus/Intel) + Celeron 2.4Ghz
>o Good Sempron board (eg, Asus/nVidia) + Sempron 2600
>
>Then consider if you also need/want to u/g the hard-drive - which for many people
>is an oft neglected performance bottleneck. Additionally, it is worth changing your
>HD every 3-4yrs simply due to bath-tub failure curve - it is the data that matters
>
>Onboard graphics are most likely going to be fine - they are quite fast these days
>even for low end games usage, more than enough for any business purposes.
>
>
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