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First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 25, 2004 11:21:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help
or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have been
using pricewatch.com to find the parts I want. This is what I have so
far...

--------------

Motherboard: $54.92

M957G Pentium4 LGA775 DDR Motherboard (800FSB) (MB)

http://www.partspc.com/store/product462.html

Can anyone recommend a better motherboard, without integrated video and
audio, for the CPU below? I'd prefer to have at least 6 USB 2.0 ports,
vice the 2 offered here. WIth my Dimension 8250 (with 6 USB 2 ports) I
constantly get errors stating that my device would work better if I
connected to a USB 2.0 port. I think this is because only 2 are actually
USB 2 ports and Dell daisies the other four. I could be wrong, but it's
still a pain, regardless. I know many others have the same problem and
I'm fairly sure it isn't driver related.

--------------

CPU: $268.99

Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz LGA775 1MB CPU - OEM (FAN/HEATSINK NOT
INCLUDED)

http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13...

--------------

CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $?

Can anyone recommend a good (and hopefully quiet) CPU fan and heatsink for
the CPU above? I understand the fan/heatsink included in the retail box
is unsatisfactory.

--------------

CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $29.00

LCT Mid ATX 400Watt Case Black

http://www.oneclickpc.com/compatibility.aspx?product_ID...

--------------

CASE FANS (FRONT/BACK): $?

Can anyone recommend good front and back case fans suitable for case and
CPU configuration I am describing?

--------------

HARD DRIVE: $126.00

250GB Serial ATA Hitachi 7200 RPM, 8MB . SATA-150

http://www.upgrade-solution.com/detail.cfm?show=yes&PID...

--------------

CD-RW: $27.00

MITSUMI CR-485GTE 54X32X54 CD-RW,W/Nero, BULK, COLD GREY

http://nt-micro.com/ntik/details.asp?item=CDRMITCR485

--------------

MEMORY: $170.00

1GB 128Mx64 PC4200 Dual Channel 184Pin-DDR Ram

http://www.dvcentury.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=P...

Will the 533mhz speed of this mem act as a bottleneck for my CPU with it's
800mhz FSB?

--------------

VIDEO CARD: $280

ATI Radeon 9800 PRO AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
***Free 2nd Day***

http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...

--------------

AUDIO CARD: $67.00

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=SC-0350ZSB&c=pw

--------------

ETHERNET CARD/INTERFACE: $5.78

Intel Pro/100+ PILA6461 82558B 10/100 Network Interface cards, Wake on
Lan, PCI, Ethernet Adapter 100BASET- PULL

http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_...

--------------

MOUSE: $7.00

Logitech 2 Button Mouse (USB, OEM)

http://www.jpmccom.com/Products_i272852.html?catId=1651...

--------------

KEYBOARD: $11.20

CT-Generic Keyboard PS/2 Beige KW-300

http://www.htcnetstore.com/htcnetstore/gekebek.html

--------------

This whole system will cost around 1050 (including shipping), plus a
little extra for the case fans and cpu fan/heatsink that I have not picked
out yet. Thanks much for any help, comments, advice, or ridicule. I'm
happy to learn what you're willing to teach/share.

Season's Greetings...

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 1:19:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08...
>I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help or
>advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have been using
>pricewatch.com to find the parts I want. This is what I have so far...
>
> --------------
>
> Motherboard: $54.92
>
> M957G Pentium4 LGA775 DDR Motherboard (800FSB) (MB)
>
> http://www.partspc.com/store/product462.html
>
> Can anyone recommend a better motherboard, without integrated video and
> audio, for the CPU below? I'd prefer to have at least 6 USB 2.0 ports,
> vice the 2 offered here. WIth my Dimension 8250 (with 6 USB 2 ports) I

>
> Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz LGA775 1MB CPU - OEM (FAN/HEATSINK NOT
> INCLUDED)
>
> http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13...
>
> --------------
>
> CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $?
>
>
> CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $29.00
>
> CASE FANS (FRONT/BACK): $?
>
> 250GB Serial ATA Hitachi 7200 RPM, 8MB . SATA-150
>
>
> MITSUMI CR-485GTE 54X32X54 CD-RW,W/Nero, BULK, COLD GREY

> MEMORY: $170.00
>
> 1GB 128Mx64 PC4200 Dual Channel 184Pin-DDR Ram
> Will the 533mhz speed of this mem act as a bottleneck for my CPU with it's
> 800mhz FSB?
>
> --------------
>
> VIDEO CARD: $280
>
> ATI Radeon 9800 PRO AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
> AUDIO CARD: $67.00
>
> Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card
> ETHERNET CARD/INTERFACE: $5.78

> This whole system will cost around 1050 (including shipping),

Yikes. Good thing you posted here first. Any particular reason to go with
LGA775? Socket 478 will be easier to build, and LGA775 is not any faster
NOR is it any more future-proof.

But regardless of socket, why choose a Micro-ATX motherboard for a full-size
ATX case? Well, at least you asked about a better motherboard. There are
TONS of them, it will be hard to choose. (more later)

CPU fan:
If you MUST go with LGA775:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
If you go with socket 478:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

Oh, do NOT use a generic power supply. Try the following instead, even if
you go with the same case you already chose (just swap the power supply) :
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

Your chosen case does not say what size fans it needs, so there is no way to
recommend fans for it. For a nice case that comes with fans installed
already, try the following:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

For a 800FSB processor, you need DDR400 (PC3200) RAM. The 533MHz RAM you
chose might also work, but it will be under-clocked IF it does work. That
RAM would be matched with a 1066FSB processor. Also, unless you are going
to be video editing or doing something else RAM-intensive, 512MB of RAM
should be enough.

Your video card is way over-priced. It should be closer to $200. You can
get a better video card for less:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

As for motherboards, there are tons. First, avoid PC Chips at all costs.
Some good alternatives:
LGA775, if you insist:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
Note that this has built-in LAN, so no ethernet card is needed

Socket 478:
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
Note that this also has built-in LAN, so no ethernet card is needed

-Dave
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 6:57:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Joseph Spain:

> I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any
> help or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have
> been using pricewatch.com to find the parts I want.

Take this advice... don't buy from the the vendors on pricewatch without
checking their feedback on resellerratings.com.

Here is a better option for you:
http://arstechnica.dealtime.com/xCH-computers~linkin_id...
If you buy from the trusted dealers then you will never know how much
aggravation you missed.

I also recommend you spend a few minutes studying some of the following
sites and consider the components they recommend. Again, this should save
you some aggravation.
http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/system-guide-200411...
http://www.extremetech.com/category2/0,1556,838239,00.a...
http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/article.php/...


> Can anyone recommend a better motherboard, without integrated video
> and audio, for the CPU below?

Don't limit yourself to boards w/o audio and video, you may exclude some
very good options. Remember that you do not have to use the onboard
options.

> CPU: $268.99
> Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz LGA775 1MB CPU - OEM (FAN/HEATSINK NOT
> INCLUDED)
> http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13...

Using the dealtime search I found a retail processor (with retail
warranty), from a reputable dealer, for only $9 more and free 2 day
shipping.

> CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $29.00

Spend twice that and buy a quality case and power supply, again it will
save many headaches.
--
Mac Cool
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 7:19:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote:

>I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any
>help or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I
>have been using pricewatch.com to find the parts I want.

I am just going to recommend online stores, I don't have time at the
moment to answer the hard questions.

You list ZipZoomFly as a possible vendor, so I will assume you are
in the United States. Instead of going with the cheapest, this is my
recommendation for stores you should shop at, roughly in order of
preference. This is not rule of law, others have other opinions.

ZipZoomFly.com (my current favorite)
Newegg.com (apparently well-liked by many others)
Buy.com (hit and miss)

Good luck.

<snip>
December 26, 2004 9:47:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

like everything but the case get a better case and power supply.

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08...
>I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help or
>advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have been using
>pricewatch.com to find the parts I want. This is what I have so far...
>
> --------------
>
> Motherboard: $54.92
>
> M957G Pentium4 LGA775 DDR Motherboard (800FSB) (MB)
>
> http://www.partspc.com/store/product462.html
>
> Can anyone recommend a better motherboard, without integrated video and
> audio, for the CPU below? I'd prefer to have at least 6 USB 2.0 ports,
> vice the 2 offered here. WIth my Dimension 8250 (with 6 USB 2 ports) I
> constantly get errors stating that my device would work better if I
> connected to a USB 2.0 port. I think this is because only 2 are actually
> USB 2 ports and Dell daisies the other four. I could be wrong, but it's
> still a pain, regardless. I know many others have the same problem and
> I'm fairly sure it isn't driver related.
>
> --------------
>
> CPU: $268.99
>
> Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz LGA775 1MB CPU - OEM (FAN/HEATSINK NOT
> INCLUDED)
>
> http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13...
>
> --------------
>
> CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $?
>
> Can anyone recommend a good (and hopefully quiet) CPU fan and heatsink for
> the CPU above? I understand the fan/heatsink included in the retail box
> is unsatisfactory.
>
> --------------
>
> CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $29.00
>
> LCT Mid ATX 400Watt Case Black
>
> http://www.oneclickpc.com/compatibility.aspx?product_ID...
>
> --------------
>
> CASE FANS (FRONT/BACK): $?
>
> Can anyone recommend good front and back case fans suitable for case and
> CPU configuration I am describing?
>
> --------------
>
> HARD DRIVE: $126.00
>
> 250GB Serial ATA Hitachi 7200 RPM, 8MB . SATA-150
>
> http://www.upgrade-solution.com/detail.cfm?show=yes&PID...
>
> --------------
>
> CD-RW: $27.00
>
> MITSUMI CR-485GTE 54X32X54 CD-RW,W/Nero, BULK, COLD GREY
>
> http://nt-micro.com/ntik/details.asp?item=CDRMITCR485
>
> --------------
>
> MEMORY: $170.00
>
> 1GB 128Mx64 PC4200 Dual Channel 184Pin-DDR Ram
>
> http://www.dvcentury.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=P...
>
> Will the 533mhz speed of this mem act as a bottleneck for my CPU with it's
> 800mhz FSB?
>
> --------------
>
> VIDEO CARD: $280
>
> ATI Radeon 9800 PRO AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
> ***Free 2nd Day***
>
> http://www.zipzoomfly.com/jsp/ProductDetail.jsp?Product...
>
> --------------
>
> AUDIO CARD: $67.00
>
> Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card
>
> http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=SC-0350ZSB&c=pw
>
> --------------
>
> ETHERNET CARD/INTERFACE: $5.78
>
> Intel Pro/100+ PILA6461 82558B 10/100 Network Interface cards, Wake on
> Lan, PCI, Ethernet Adapter 100BASET- PULL
>
> http://www.gearxs.com/gearxs/product_info.php?products_...
>
> --------------
>
> MOUSE: $7.00
>
> Logitech 2 Button Mouse (USB, OEM)
>
> http://www.jpmccom.com/Products_i272852.html?catId=1651...
>
> --------------
>
> KEYBOARD: $11.20
>
> CT-Generic Keyboard PS/2 Beige KW-300
>
> http://www.htcnetstore.com/htcnetstore/gekebek.html
>
> --------------
>
> This whole system will cost around 1050 (including shipping), plus a
> little extra for the case fans and cpu fan/heatsink that I have not picked
> out yet. Thanks much for any help, comments, advice, or ridicule. I'm
> happy to learn what you're willing to teach/share.
>
> Season's Greetings...
>
> Joseph
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 5:04:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote in message
news:336oumF3sceshU1@individual.net...
>
> "Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08...
> >I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help
or
> >advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated. I have been using
> >pricewatch.com to find the parts I want. This is what I have so far...
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > Motherboard: $54.92
> >
> > M957G Pentium4 LGA775 DDR Motherboard (800FSB) (MB)
> >
> > http://www.partspc.com/store/product462.html
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a better motherboard, without integrated video and
> > audio, for the CPU below? I'd prefer to have at least 6 USB 2.0 ports,
> > vice the 2 offered here. WIth my Dimension 8250 (with 6 USB 2 ports) I
>
> >
> > Intel Pentium 4 3.4GHz 800MHz LGA775 1MB CPU - OEM (FAN/HEATSINK NOT
> > INCLUDED)
> >
> > http://www.smksuperstore.com/catalog/viewitem.asp?ID=13...
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $?
> >
> >
> > CASE & POWER SUPPLY: $29.00
> >
> > CASE FANS (FRONT/BACK): $?
> >
> > 250GB Serial ATA Hitachi 7200 RPM, 8MB . SATA-150
> >
> >
> > MITSUMI CR-485GTE 54X32X54 CD-RW,W/Nero, BULK, COLD GREY
>
> > MEMORY: $170.00
> >
> > 1GB 128Mx64 PC4200 Dual Channel 184Pin-DDR Ram
> > Will the 533mhz speed of this mem act as a bottleneck for my CPU with
it's
> > 800mhz FSB?
> >
> > --------------
> >
> > VIDEO CARD: $280
> >
> > ATI Radeon 9800 PRO AGP 8X 256MB DDR Video Card w/TV-Out & DVI Retail
> > AUDIO CARD: $67.00
> >
> > Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card
> > ETHERNET CARD/INTERFACE: $5.78

> Oh, do NOT use a generic power supply. Try the following instead, even if
> you go with the same case you already chose (just swap the power supply) :
>
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

I also recommend this power supply. I bought it based on Dave C.'s
recommendation, and it has been great. The only problem is that the wires
are incredibly long, as in longer than needed for even a tower server case.
You can also plug the PSU fans into one of the chassis fan sockets on the
motherboard, so that the fan speed can be changed. Get it now, while the
price is low because I've noticed that it fluctuates a lot.


MC
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 11:29:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

> Yikes. Good thing you posted here first.

I want to thank you for responding. Good responses like yours, and the
others I received here, are an important part of the learning process for
me.

> Any particular reason to go with LGA775?

Not really. I thought it was the best based 3.40 ghz Intel processor
based on an article I recently read, but I have also read opposing views.
I did more research based on your recommendation and learned that what you
posted made a lot of sense. In fact, I made a lot of changes to my
configuration based on your recommendations, as well as the recomendations
of a couple of others here. I read quite a bit about the changes the
folks in this newsgroup recommended.

> Oh, do NOT use a generic power supply.

Roger. Others share a similar sentiment.

> For a 800FSB processor, you need DDR400 (PC3200) RAM. The 533MHz RAM
> you chose might also work, but it will be under-clocked IF it does work.
> That RAM would be matched with a 1066FSB processor. Also, unless you
> are going to be video editing or doing something else RAM-intensive,
> 512MB of RAM should be enough.

Good call. I checked this out and made the change.

> Your video card is way over-priced. It should be closer to $200. You
> can get a better video card for less:
> http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

I've been a firm believer in ATI and their products. In short, they
really support their $hit. To me, that's the most important aspect.
However, I researched nVidia based on the card you recommended. I learned
that they also have very good customer loyalty and support. I do have a
question though. How will the 128mb graphics card be superior to the
256mb graphics card? I realize it isn't fully memory related, but what am
I missing? BTW, I'm not a big gamer. My primary usage of the graphics
card will be porting from s-video to RCA so I can watch movies and tv
shows on my big bedroom tv -- (avis, mpegs, and DVD). The results are
perfect using my current Radeon 9700 w/ TV out. It has 256 mb of mem.
I've never had a problem with this card. I does exactly what I want it
to.

I am also very interested in the "quietness" of my modified configuation
(below). Does anyone have any comments on this aspect? Silence is
golden.

As a side note, I am quite disappointed in my two Iomega external hdds
because of how loud they are. One is a 120 GB hdd, and the newer one is a
250 GB hdd. The newer one is exceptionally loud and annoying. Also, the
fan went out on the 120 GB and it was out of warranty. When I tried to
get a new one from Iomega, they basically told me to G.F. myself. For
clarity, I wasn't upset because they wouldn't replace the drive or fan on
a product that's out of warranty. I wasn't even upset because the fan
busted after only 1 year of use. I was upset because they don't publish
replacement part numbers, nor would they even discuss obtaining a
replacement part or part number with me. In other words, they hoped I'd
buy a new one. I will never buy another Iomega product (or Dell
product -- a whole other story) again. Neither supports their stuff IMO
and experience. I think next time I will buy an internal Maxtor or
Western Digital and purchase a portable housing unit for it. Those are
lower in price and also quieter. Any comments?

Here is my modified (currently planned) configuration (price ~$1075.00 w/
shipping)...

--------------
mwave.com (2 products)

* CPU: $296.00

Intel Pentium 4 3.40E GHz 800MHz 478PIN 1MB Retail

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=BA20...

* MEMORY: $97.00

KINGSTON KHX3200A/512 512MB PC3200 400MHZ CL2 DDR DIMM W/HEAT SPREADER

http://www.mwave.com/mwave/skusearch.hmx?SCriteria=BA19...

COMBINED PRICE INCL. SHIPPING: $404.47

--------------

newegg.com (7 products)

* Motherboard: $79.00

MSI "865PE Neo2-PFS (Platinum Edition)" i865PE Chipset Motherboard for
Intel Socket 478 CPU -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

Note: I wonder if I will need to purchase an LAN cable to run from the
NIC port to the case front? I'm not clear on this.

* CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $16.49

Spire CopperStream II CPU Cooler For Socket 478 CPU, Model
"SP420B8-2" -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

* CASE (WITH FANS): $28.50

RAIDMAX Black 10-bay Case, Model "268WBP" -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&de...

Note: I really liked this case you recommended. Much better airflow.

* POWER SUPPLY: $36.99

Thermaltake Silent PurePower, 420W ATX power supply.UL, CSA, TUV, CE
Approved. Intel Pentium 4 Compliant

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&de...

* HARD DRIVE: $135.00

Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model HDS722525VLSA80 Part#
13G0255, OEM Drive Only

http://www.upgrade-solution.com/detail.cfm?show=yes&PID...

Note: I can't figure out if this comes with cables or not.

* CD-RW: $27.50

MITSUMI 54X32X54 Internal IDE CD-RW Drive, Model CR-485FTE, OEM

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

Note: I can't figure out if this comes with cables or not

* VIDEO CARD: $229.00

EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB GDDR3, 128-Bit, DVI/TV-Out,
AGP 8X, Model "128-A8-N350" -RETAIL

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...

COMBINED PRICE INCL. SHIPPING: $590.14

--------------

ewiz.com (1 product)

* AUDIO CARD: $67.00

Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card

http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=SC-0350ZSB&c=pw

COMBINED PRICE INCL. SHIPPING: $67.00

Note: I'm concerned this *could* be a refurbished unit. It isn't
advertsied as such, but it is substantially lower at ewiz than any other
site I researched.

--------------

JPMC INC (2 products)

* MOUSE: $3.00

Logitech 2 Button Mouse (USB, OEM)

http://www.jpmccom.com/Products_i272852.html?catId=1377...

* KEYBOARD: $4.50

Generic Keyboard (Black/PS2)

http://www.jpmccom.com/Products_i869375.html?catId=1377...

COMBINED PRICE NOT INCL. SHIPPING: $7.50

--------------

Thanks again.

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 11:32:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Mac Cool" <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:

> Take this advice... don't buy from the the vendors on pricewatch without
> checking their feedback on resellerratings.com.

Thanks, Mac. Excellent advice.

> Here is a better option for you:
> http://arstechnica.dealtime.com/xCH-computers~linkin_id...
> If you buy from the trusted dealers then you will never know how much
> aggravation you missed.

Thanks for this site. It's excellent.

> I also recommend you spend a few minutes studying some of the following
> sites and consider the components they recommend. Again, this should
> save
> you some aggravation.
> http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/system-guide-200411...
> http://www.extremetech.com/category2/0,1556,838239,00.a...
> http://www.sharkyextreme.com/guides/MVGSBG/article.php/...

Thanks. I will.

> Spend twice that and buy a quality case and power supply, again it will
> save many headaches.

Excellent advice. I made changes to my planned config -- still tentative
for now. (See my post to Dave C.)

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 11:35:52 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote:

> You list ZipZoomFly as a possible vendor, so I will assume you are
> in the United States. Instead of going with the cheapest, this is my
> recommendation for stores you should shop at, roughly in order of
> preference. This is not rule of law, others have other opinions.
>
> ZipZoomFly.com (my current favorite)
> Newegg.com (apparently well-liked by many others)
> Buy.com (hit and miss)
>
> Good luck.

Thanks for posting. I made some changes to my planned configuration. I
tried to consolidate some of the products in order to go with few vendors.
The difference in shipping costs ended up offsetting some slightly less
expensive individual products available elsewhere, but I will revisit all
of this again once I make a final determination on my configuration.

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 26, 2004 11:38:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"ModeratelyConfused" <moderatelyconfused@guess.com> wrote:

> I also recommend this power supply. I bought it based on Dave C.'s
> recommendation, and it has been great.

Thanks. I researched it further and I plan to purchase it.

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 12:30:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Matt" <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:

> Joseph Spain wrote:
>> I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer.
>
> Don't undergo it---undertake it!

Thanks. English is not my first language. I will try to be more clear.

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 12:52:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:GCKzd.26501$up.58@lakeread08...
> "Matt" <matt@themattfella.zzzz.com> wrote:
>
> > Joseph Spain wrote:
> >> I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer.
> >
> > Don't undergo it---undertake it!
>
> Thanks. English is not my first language. I will try to be more clear.
>
> Joseph

It wasn't a correction, he was, how can I explain this, encouraging you.
Kinda like "Go get 'em, tiger". I really don't know if that translates,
it's an American thing. I couldn't tell English wasn't your fist language.

MC
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 1:25:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o sKzd.26497
>> Your video card is way over-priced. It should be closer to $200. You
>> can get a better video card for less:
>> http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
>
> I've been a firm believer in ATI and their products. In short, they
> really support their $hit. To me, that's the most important aspect.
> However, I researched nVidia based on the card you recommended. I learned
> that they also have very good customer loyalty and support. I do have a
> question though. How will the 128mb graphics card be superior to the
> 256mb graphics card? I realize it isn't fully memory related, but what am
> I missing? BTW, I'm not a big gamer. My primary usage of the graphics
> card will be porting from s-video to RCA so I can watch movies and tv
> shows on my big bedroom tv -- (avis, mpegs, and DVD). The results are
> perfect using my current Radeon 9700 w/ TV out. It has 256 mb of mem.
> I've never had a problem with this card. I does exactly what I want it
> to.
>

>
> Note: I wonder if I will need to purchase an LAN cable to run from the
> NIC port to the case front? I'm not clear on this.
>
> * CPU FAN/HEATSINK: $16.49
>
> Spire CopperStream II CPU Cooler For Socket 478 CPU, Model
> "SP420B8-2" -RETAIL
>
> http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
>
> * CASE (WITH FANS): $28.50
>
> RAIDMAX Black 10-bay Case, Model "268WBP" -RETAIL
>
> http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?DEPA=0&de...
>
> Note: I really liked this case you recommended. Much better airflow.
>
> Hitachi 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive, Model HDS722525VLSA80 Part#
> 13G0255, OEM Drive Only
>
> http://www.upgrade-solution.com/detail.cfm?show=yes&PID...
>
> Note: I can't figure out if this comes with cables or not.
>
> * CD-RW: $27.50
>
> MITSUMI 54X32X54 Internal IDE CD-RW Drive, Model CR-485FTE, OEM
>
> http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
>
> Note: I can't figure out if this comes with cables or not
>
> * AUDIO CARD: $67.00
>
> Creative Labs Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 PCI Internal Sound Card
>
> http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=SC-0350ZSB&c=pw
>
> COMBINED PRICE INCL. SHIPPING: $67.00
>
> Note: I'm concerned this *could* be a refurbished unit. It isn't
> advertsied as such, but it is substantially lower at ewiz than any other
> site I researched.
>

OK, I built a similar system recently. I use it for (among other things)
recording movies off of dbs (dish network) and playing them back through my
home theater system. My graphics card is an nvidia fx5900xt 128MB. (I'm
not a gamer) I have no problems at all. I use a cheap leadtek tv tuner
card to record the movies and play them back. My second monitor is the TV
(really the A/V receiver) hooked up to the computer's video card with an
S-Video cable. I also have S-video IN to the TV tuner card from the
satellite tuner. There's no reason I couldn't use the RCA jacks, though.
On graphics cards, more memory allows greater resolutions. It also helps
with detail in 3D games, when pushed to extreme settings. However, my
nephew has the same 128MB video card I do, and he has no problem playing the
latest computer games, and he's a hard-core gamer. The nvidia 6600 series
is a lot faster than a radeon 9800. But you'd probably be happy with either
one, as the Radeon 9800 is a little faster than the card I'm using. For
what you want to use your system for, MY system works great!

OK, the NIC built into your mainboard has a jack that sits next to your
other connectors on the back of your computer. There is where you would
plug in a Lan/Ethernet cable. The other end of the cable would go to a
Cable/DSL modem or router or (if a crossover cable) directly to another
computer. The cable you need SHOULD come with other hardware, unless you
are going to run it directly to another computer.

Your drives (hard drive, CDR/W) probably do NOT come with cables. However,
your power supply comes with SATA power cables. Your motherboard SHOULD
come with IDE and SATA data cables. You should not have to purchase any
cables to hook up your drives.

The sound card you chose is decent, if a bit over-priced. I'd suggest you
look at something from Turtle Beach like the Santa Cruz (my sound card) or
the newer Riviera. (even cheaper) -Dave

http://www.jr.com/JRProductPage.process?Product=870290
http://www.mwave.com/mwave/viewspec.hmx?scriteria=34600...
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 1:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

> The sound card you chose is decent, if a bit over-priced. I'd suggest
> you look at something from Turtle Beach like the Santa Cruz (my sound
> card) or the newer Riviera. (even cheaper) -Dave

Thanks. I appreciate what you are saying. Honestly, I have been elated
with all service (especially drivers that work as intended) from ATI
(video card) and Creative (sound card) for years. They have always
supported their stuff 100% in my experience. I am never left wanting from
those two companies. Maybe that's worth a few extra dollars. OTOH,
perhaps I will try something new, as you recommend. I just hate to change
from anything that is tried and true, but I may choose to try the Riviera
after reviewing it further, per your comments. Heck, it may even be
better. Thanks again for your advice. I love feeling liberated from
Dellhell and the like. My wife says I'm more at peace already. :-)

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 7:24:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:o sKzd.26497$up.4571@lakeread08...
>
> > For a 800FSB processor, you need DDR400 (PC3200) RAM. The 533MHz RAM
> > you chose might also work, but it will be under-clocked IF it does work.
> > That RAM would be matched with a 1066FSB processor. Also, unless you
> > are going to be video editing or doing something else RAM-intensive,
> > 512MB of RAM should be enough.
>
> Good call. I checked this out and made the change.

I'd be careful of that. Depends what they'll be doing, but I definitely
think 2x512 is worth considering if you'll be doing much multi-tasking.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 7:31:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Joseph Spain:

> * VIDEO CARD: $229.00
>
> EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB GDDR3, 128-Bit,
> DVI/TV-Out, AGP 8X, Model "128-A8-N350" -RETAIL

One thing I should point out... AGP is a dying animal, it is being
replaced by PCI-E and all new video cards are coming out as PCI-E. AGP
cards will be available for maybe 6-12 months, but I suspect the standard
will die quickly. If you are a non-gamer then I wouldn't worry about it,
but if you plan on playing games or believe that you will want to keep
your system longer than 18 months and may upgrade your video card... then
I suggest using a PCI-E motherboard (something like the ABIT AG8) which
means going back to LGA775.
--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 7:47:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>Joseph Spain:
>
>> * VIDEO CARD: $229.00
>> EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB GDDR3, 128-Bit,
>> DVI/TV-Out, AGP 8X, Model "128-A8-N350" -RETAIL
>
>One thing I should point out... AGP is a dying animal, it is being
>replaced by PCI-E and all new video cards are coming out as PCI-E.
>AGP cards will be available for maybe 6-12 months,

Are you predicting that AGP cards will be unavailable after 12
months? Assuming new products from well-known online stores, I
predict at least 30 months.





but I suspect the standard
>will die quickly. If you are a non-gamer then I wouldn't worry
>about it, but if you plan on playing games or believe that you will
>want to keep your system longer than 18 months and may upgrade your
>video card... then I suggest using a PCI-E motherboard (something
>like the ABIT AG8) which means going back to LGA775.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 8:22:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

John Doe:

>>One thing I should point out... AGP is a dying animal, it is being
>>replaced by PCI-E and all new video cards are coming out as PCI-E.
>>AGP cards will be available for maybe 6-12 months,
>
> Are you predicting that AGP cards will be unavailable after 12
> months? Assuming new products from well-known online stores, I
> predict at least 30 months.

AGP cards will be available for a long time. You can still buy PCI cards
and ISA cards, but I don't believe that card makers will continue making
new high end cards for AGP for much more than about 12 months. Each time
the video card slot standard has changed, from ISA to VLB, then PCI and
AGP; card makers have hopped on the new standard fairly quickly. It is
expensive to make cards in two formats and there is no reason for it as
the people who are most likely to buy top end cards are the people most
likely to upgrade their systems frequently.
--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 2:23:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article Joseph Spain says...
> I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help
> or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.

Make sure the wife/kids/dog are out and the TV is switched off.
Make sure you've a large clean workspace.
Have a drink of coffee and read the manuals.
Put together a bare system first, i.e motherboard, CPU, heatsink&fan,
one RAM stick and graphics card then test it to see that it switches on
OK. If it does, add the rest. If it doesn't, don't panic. Check
everything especially that you've turned the plug on and turned on the
switch on the PSU.
Have another drink of coffee.
Install Windows.

Tips:
Use a magnetic screwdriver. saves ages trying to retrieve screws that've
fallen behind things in the case.
The only front panel connectors you can get the wrong way round are HDD
and power LED.
If the floppy drive light remains permanently lit the cable is the wrong
way round at the drive end.
Don't use too much thermal paste.
Heatsinks can be a bastard to get on. Sometimes you really do have to
push that hard. Its a good idea to put the CPU and heatsink on the
motherboard supporting it on a flat surface BEFORE you put the
motherboard in the case.




--
Conor

An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
-- George Patton
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 2:23:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Conor wrote:

> In article Joseph Spain says...
> > I am about to undergo my first attempt to assemple a computer. Any help
> > or advice anyone can offer would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Make sure the wife/kids/dog are out and the TV is switched off.
> Make sure you've a large clean workspace.
> Have a drink of coffee and read the manuals.
> Put together a bare system first, i.e motherboard, CPU, heatsink&fan,
> one RAM stick and graphics card then test it to see that it switches on
> OK. If it does, add the rest. If it doesn't, don't panic. Check
> everything especially that you've turned the plug on and turned on the
> switch on the PSU.
> Have another drink of coffee.
> Install Windows.
>
> Tips:
> Use a magnetic screwdriver. saves ages trying to retrieve screws that've
> fallen behind things in the case.
> The only front panel connectors you can get the wrong way round are HDD
> and power LED.
> If the floppy drive light remains permanently lit the cable is the wrong
> way round at the drive end.
> Don't use too much thermal paste.
> Heatsinks can be a bastard to get on. Sometimes you really do have to
> push that hard. Its a good idea to put the CPU and heatsink on the
> motherboard supporting it on a flat surface BEFORE you put the
> motherboard in the case.

Flat surface, before put in case, almost a must; stupid not to.

Bryan

> --
> Conor
>
> An imperfect plan executed violently is far superior to a perfect plan.
> -- George Patton
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 7:11:36 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Joseph Spain" <icystorm@removethistoreply-hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MBLzd.26504$up.13553@lakeread08...
> "Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:
>
>> The sound card you chose is decent, if a bit over-priced. I'd suggest
>> you look at something from Turtle Beach like the Santa Cruz (my sound
>> card) or the newer Riviera. (even cheaper) -Dave
>
> Thanks. I appreciate what you are saying. Honestly, I have been elated
> with all service (especially drivers that work as intended) from ATI
> (video card) and Creative (sound card) for years. They have always
> supported their stuff 100% in my experience. I am never left wanting from
> those two companies. Maybe that's worth a few extra dollars. OTOH,
> perhaps I will try something new, as you recommend. I just hate to change
> from anything that is tried and true,

Actually, anything Turtle Beach is just as tried and true as the Creative
brand sound cards. You really can't get better quality than Turtle Beach,
but you can definitely pay more. :)  -Dave
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 7:14:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Mac Cool" <Mac@2cool.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95CBEF4BA8DC2MacCool@24.25.9.42...
> Joseph Spain:
>
>> * VIDEO CARD: $229.00
>>
>> EVGA nVIDIA GeForce 6600GT Video Card, 128MB GDDR3, 128-Bit,
>> DVI/TV-Out, AGP 8X, Model "128-A8-N350" -RETAIL
>
> One thing I should point out... AGP is a dying animal, it is being
> replaced by PCI-E and all new video cards are coming out as PCI-E. AGP
> cards will be available for maybe 6-12 months, but I suspect the standard
> will die quickly. If you are a non-gamer then I wouldn't worry about it,

That's good advice. But typically, all major components will be replaced
every couple of years anyway. That is, by the time you want a new video
card, you probably want a new motherboard and CPU, also. So I generally
advise people to build what will work for them NOW, and not worry about
upgrading it later. There is nothing wrong with PCI-E, but if you don't
need it, it's a waste of money. IMHO -Dave
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 8:10:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
news:Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48...
> >
> >Buy.com probably has the worst reputation of any online store
> >anywhere.
>
> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie Ever!" I
> tend to skip it.

But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I tend to pay
attention. At one time, BUY.COM was quite good, and had low prices. But
now they're mediocre at best.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 27, 2004 8:37:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com> wrote:
>"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message

>> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie Ever!"
>> I tend to skip it.
>
>But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I tend
>to pay attention.

That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites for
opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned the
ABCs about advertising long ago.




>
>
>
>
>Path: newssvr11.news.prodigy.com!newscon03.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>From: "jeffc" <nobody@nowhere.com>
>Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08> <Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44> <1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews> <Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
>Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated
>Lines: 15
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>Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 17:10:07 GMT
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.61.187
>X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
>X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1104167407 24.163.61.187 (Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:10:07 EST)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 12:10:07 EST
>Organization: Road Runner - NC
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425519
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 4:52:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

>Actually, anything Turtle Beach is just as tried and true as the
>Creative brand sound cards. You really can't get better quality
>than Turtle Beach, but you can definitely pay more. :)  -Dave

I like Creative Labs software. I wasn't impressed with the software
which came with my Quadzilla. However, as much as possible I do like to
give others a chance.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 7:41:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

John Doe:

>>> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie Ever!"
>>> I tend to skip it.
>>
>>But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I tend
>>to pay attention.
>
> That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites for
> opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned the
> ABCs about advertising long ago.

So who are you going to trust, your own experience? That's fine but the
downside is that you have to get burned before you learn. Visit the
video groups and ask about buying from buy.com and read the replies...
they will be overwhelmingly negative. There was a recent story about
someone who ordered a video card and the box had been opened and the
wrong card was inside. Buy.com didn't want to make it right, it took
weeks for the guy to get it straight. In other groups people who have
ordered games from buy.com have posted that their serial was already
registered online, obviously stolen by a buy.com employee. Nine out of
ten people that have posted a review on reseller ratings had a negative
experience. Those are people posting their opinions, not a commercial
website making recommendations. It's your money, spend it where you
like, but I wouldn't go around recommending them to others.
--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 8:33:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>John Doe:

>>>> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie
>>>> Ever!" I tend to skip it.
>>>
>>> But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I
>>> tend to pay attention.
>>
>> That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites
>> for opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned
>> the ABCs about advertising long ago.
>
>So who are you going to trust, your own experience?

That is IMO an odd question.

>Nine out of ten people that have posted a review on reseller
>ratings had a negative experience. Those are people posting their
>opinions, not a commercial website making recommendations.

But we all know about moderated forums.

>It's your money, spend it where you like, but I wouldn't go around
>recommending them to others.

This is an unmoderated forum.

My impression is based on a lot of personal experience. The reader
can take it or leave it.

I have shopped at Buy.com for years and have never had a problem
which wasn't resolved in my favor. I almost never need customer
service and have been impressed with their apparent automation.

Overall, my online shopping experience has been excellent.




>--
>Mac Cool
>
>Path: newssvr30.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated
>From: Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com>
>References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08> <Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44> <1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews> <Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com> <Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
>Message-ID: <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42>
>User-Agent: Xnews/06.12.01
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>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:41:51 GMT
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>X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
>X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1104208911 24.163.49.47 (Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST
>Organization: Road Runner - NC
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425561
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 10:41:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
news:Xns95CCEF9C5AEE6wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44...
> Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>>John Doe:
>
>>>>> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie
>>>>> Ever!" I tend to skip it.
>>>>
>>>> But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I
>>>> tend to pay attention.
>>>
>>> That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites
>>> for opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned
>>> the ABCs about advertising long ago.
>>
>>So who are you going to trust, your own experience?
>
> That is IMO an odd question.
>
>>Nine out of ten people that have posted a review on reseller
>>ratings had a negative experience. Those are people posting their
>>opinions, not a commercial website making recommendations.
>
> But we all know about moderated forums.
>
>>It's your money, spend it where you like, but I wouldn't go around
>>recommending them to others.
>
> This is an unmoderated forum.
>
> My impression is based on a lot of personal experience. The reader
> can take it or leave it.
>
> I have shopped at Buy.com for years and have never had a problem
> which wasn't resolved in my favor. I almost never need customer
> service and have been impressed with their apparent automation.
>
> Overall, my online shopping experience has been excellent.
>
>
>
>
>>--
>>Mac Cool
>>
And somebody out there loves their Ford Pinto too...
http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2107.html
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 12:47:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Troll.

"Kill Bill" <a@b.c> wrote:

>Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-server.columbus.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.socal.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>From: "Kill Bill" <a@b.c>
>Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08> <Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44> <1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews> <Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com> <Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42> <Xns95CCEF9C5AEE6wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44>
>Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated
>Lines: 50
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
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>X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180
>X-RFC2646: Format=Flowed; Original
>Message-ID: <378Ad.38099$Ew6.14872@twister.socal.rr.com>
>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 07:41:51 GMT
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.49.179.252
>X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
>X-Trace: twister.socal.rr.com 1104219711 67.49.179.252 (Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 PST)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 PST
>Organization: RoadRunner - West
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425568
>
>
>"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
>news:Xns95CCEF9C5AEE6wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44...
>> Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>>> John Doe:
>>
>>>>>> Whenever I see a movie review that starts out "Worst Movie
>>>>>> Ever!" I tend to skip it.
>>>>>
>>>>> But if I read 100 reviews and they all say the same thing, I
>>>>> tend to pay attention.
>>>>
>>>> That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites
>>>> for opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned
>>>> the ABCs about advertising long ago.
>>>
>>> So who are you going to trust, your own experience?
>>
>> That is IMO an odd question.
>>
>>> Nine out of ten people that have posted a review on reseller
>>> ratings had a negative experience. Those are people posting their
>>> opinions, not a commercial website making recommendations.
>>
>> But we all know about moderated forums.
>>
>>> It's your money, spend it where you like, but I wouldn't go around
>>> recommending them to others.
>>
>> This is an unmoderated forum.
>>
>> My impression is based on a lot of personal experience. The reader
>> can take it or leave it.
>>
>> I have shopped at Buy.com for years and have never had a problem
>> which wasn't resolved in my favor. I almost never need customer
>> service and have been impressed with their apparent automation.
>>
>> Overall, my online shopping experience has been excellent.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Mac Cool
>>>
>And somebody out there loves their Ford Pinto too...
>http://www.resellerratings.com/seller2107.html
>
>
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 1:25:46 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:

>Those are people posting their opinions, not a commercial
>website making recommendations.

http://www.resellerratings.com/merchant-solutions

It is a commercial web site. You are making perfectly clear that
their ratings influence where you spend money. That is the
definition of advertising, and they get paid by the very same
companies the ratings steer you to. A merchant who buys
ResellerRatings' services probably receives better published
reviews. That's the way things work in the world.




>--
>Mac Cool
>
>
>Path: newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.com!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated
>From: Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com>
>References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08> <Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44> <1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews> <Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com> <Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
>Message-ID: <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42>
>User-Agent: Xnews/06.12.01
>Lines: 27
>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:41:51 GMT
>NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.49.47
>X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
>X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1104208911 24.163.49.47 (Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST)
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST
>Organization: Road Runner - NC
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425561
>
December 28, 2004 1:25:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

next thing you'll be telling us is that there is no Santa
Claus....shame on you bursting our bubble, that the world is not a
honest place.....I was so disillusioned.



"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
news:Xns95CD2D13E650Awisdomfolly@151.164.30.42...
> Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>
> >Those are people posting their opinions, not a commercial
> >website making recommendations.
>
> http://www.resellerratings.com/merchant-solutions
>
> It is a commercial web site. You are making perfectly clear that
> their ratings influence where you spend money. That is the
> definition of advertising, and they get paid by the very same
> companies the ratings steer you to. A merchant who buys
> ResellerRatings' services probably receives better published
> reviews. That's the way things work in the world.
>
>
>
>
> >--
> >Mac Cool
> >
> >
> >Path:
newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.p
rodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.gi
ganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gn
ilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.c
om!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
> >Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
> >Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice
appreciated
> >From: Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com>
> >References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08>
<Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44>
<1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews>
<Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
<PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com>
<Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
> >Message-ID: <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42>
> >User-Agent: Xnews/06.12.01
> >Lines: 27
> >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:41:51 GMT
> >NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.49.47
> >X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
> >X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1104208911 24.163.49.47 (Mon, 27
Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST)
> >NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST
> >Organization: Road Runner - NC
> >Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com
alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425561
> >
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 6:27:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
news:Xns95CD2D13E650Awisdomfolly@151.164.30.42...
> Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>
>>Those are people posting their opinions, not a commercial
>>website making recommendations.
>
> http://www.resellerratings.com/merchant-solutions
>
> It is a commercial web site. You are making perfectly clear that
> their ratings influence where you spend money. That is the
> definition of advertising, and they get paid by the very same
> companies the ratings steer you to. A merchant who buys
> ResellerRatings' services probably receives better published
> reviews. That's the way things work in the world.
>
Idiot.

http://www.resellerratings.com/faq.pl

Q: ResellerRatings rated a company unfairly. Please explain.

A: We do not rate companies. Our site users are 100% responsible for
evaluating 100% of the companies listed at ResellerRatings.com. The people
who own and operate ResellerRatings.com do not submit ANY evaluations for
ANY companies. We only maintain the technology and software that powers the
site. Further, users who post evaluations are 100% liable for the content of
their comments.

Q: How do I know that the companies haven't submitted evaluations for
themselves?

A: We use a variety of techniques to prevent voting fraud, not the least of
which is good old fashioned manual review of selected evaluations. We log IP
addresses, we require email verification, we ask for the customer's invoice
number, and occasionally we ask that customers fax us a copy of their order
invoice for verification. Some merchants have in fact attempted to get away
with submitting evaluations for their own companies in the past. Though
rare, such an offense will earn the merchant a comment from us to be placed
in their comments file, letting visitors know of their fraudlent
evaluations. And of course, any fraudulent evaluations are removed.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 8:13:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Dave C." <mdupre@sff.net> wrote:

> But typically, all major components will be replaced every couple of
> years anyway.

Good point. In a similar vein, I am having a very hard time selling (or
even disposing of) old computer parts and peripheral components that still
work perfectly. I've tried the regular auction sites, with very little
success, even though I offer the stuff at extremely low prices. Any ideas
on getting rid of or recycling old computer related stuff like an AOpen
V.90 56K Internet/voice/ fax modem card, an RCA DCM235 DOCSIS cable modem,
or a Sound Blaster Live! SB0200 sound card, or should I just trash them?
The stuff still works perfectly, but golly... if no one wants or needs it,
I won't resort to being an eternal packrat. We simply don't have the
available space to store things indefinitely that will likely never be
used again. Maybe I should offer all the stuff together in potpourri
style. Any thoughts?

Joseph
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 28, 2004 9:36:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>From: "ModeratelyConfused" moderatelyconfused@guess.com

>http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
>
>I also recommend this power supply. I bought it based on Dave C.'s
>recommendation, and it has been great. The only problem is that the wires
>are incredibly long, as in longer than needed for even a tower server case.
>You can also plug the PSU fans into one of the chassis fan sockets on the
>motherboard, so that the fan speed can be changed. Get it now, while the
>price is low because I've noticed that it fluctuates a lot.

I also got a Tt PSU, but the PurePower 560 because it was the only one the
store had and they were giving me a credit for my DOA Antec that I had
previously bought from them. I figure probably way more power than I'll ever
need but I really like this PSU. Nice sleeving. It actually brought my case
temps down about 4 degrees:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?descripti...
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 29, 2004 8:30:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

John Doe:
> A merchant who buys ResellerRatings' services probably receives
> better published reviews. That's the way things work in the world.

That doesn't explain buy.com's horrible rating and negative comments;
neither does it explain the negative comments about their service in
general from other sources on the web. I didn't mean to challenge you on
the buy.com issue, it's just that I have heard so much negative about them
that I was somewhat taken off guard by positive comments.
--
Mac Cool
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
December 31, 2004 7:34:18 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Mac Cool" <Mac@2cool.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42...
> >
> > That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites for
> > opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned the
> > ABCs about advertising long ago.
>
> So who are you going to trust, your own experience? That's fine but the
> downside is that you have to get burned before you learn.

Experience, as it turns out, is not that good a teacher. Most people
underestimate the amount of randomness in life. You might get good service
from a company depending on what kind of day the guy who placed your order
is having. You might have a cheap hard drive last a long time, or an
expensive hard drive crash real quick. Listening to many sources reduces
this randomness to a probability you can trust.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 1, 2005 12:00:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

jeffc wrote:

> "Mac Cool" <Mac@2cool.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42...
>
>>>That depends on the source. I don't trust commercial web sites for
>>>opinions which are intended to effect my purchases. I learned the
>>>ABCs about advertising long ago.
>>
>>So who are you going to trust, your own experience? That's fine but the
>>downside is that you have to get burned before you learn.
>
>
> Experience, as it turns out, is not that good a teacher. Most people
> underestimate the amount of randomness in life. You might get good service
> from a company depending on what kind of day the guy who placed your order
> is having. You might have a cheap hard drive last a long time, or an
> expensive hard drive crash real quick.

In the world of statistics it's called insufficient sample size ;) 

> Listening to many sources reduces
> this randomness to a probability you can trust.

More samples.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 2, 2005 3:16:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>
> Good point. In a similar vein, I am having a very hard time selling (or
> even disposing of) old computer parts and peripheral components that still
> work perfectly. I've tried the regular auction sites, with very little
> success, even though I offer the stuff at extremely low prices. Any ideas
> on getting rid of or recycling old computer related stuff like an AOpen
> V.90 56K Internet/voice/ fax modem card, an RCA DCM235 DOCSIS cable modem,
> or a Sound Blaster Live! SB0200 sound card, or should I just trash them?

I wish I had a better suggestion for you. In our area, you can't even
trash them. It is illegal to throw away computer parts here. You must pay
to have them recycled. What they are recycled into, I can't even
magine. -Dave
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 11, 2005 12:12:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Troll.

"JAD" <kapasitor@charter.net> wrote:

>Path: newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!newsswing.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!atl-c02.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!hwmnpeer01.lga!hwmedia!hw-poster!fe06.lga.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>From: "JAD" <kapasitor@charter.net>
>From: "JAD" <kapasitor @charter.net>
>Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08> <Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44> <1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews> <Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com> <Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48> <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42> <Xns95CD2D13E650Awisdomfolly@151.164.30.42>
>Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice appreciated
>Lines: 61
>X-Priority: 3
>X-MSMail-Priority: Normal
>X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409
>X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409
>Message-ID: <X9gAd.36528$MS4.26596@fe06.lga>
>Message-ID: <X9gAd.36528$MS4.26596 @fe06.lga>
>X-Trace: dkoicekneficefklakdnefkaghcnmcbohnjoiobiaejgkckifcccdnnagloeleneanbhjnjjlbflhbibloigjmfdhemkocakadlalapkjmmmbdojbonhdjeakiofifikegcmjhhibopfakdb
>NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:51:03 MST
>Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 08:40:48 -0800
>Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425582
>
>next thing you'll be telling us is that there is no Santa
>Claus....shame on you bursting our bubble, that the world is not a
>honest place.....I was so disillusioned.
>
>
>
>"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing> wrote in message
>news:Xns95CD2D13E650Awisdomfolly@151.164.30.42...
>> Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Those are people posting their opinions, not a commercial
>>> website making recommendations.
>>
>> http://www.resellerratings.com/merchant-solutions
>>
>> It is a commercial web site. You are making perfectly clear that
>> their ratings influence where you spend money. That is the
>> definition of advertising, and they get paid by the very same
>> companies the ratings steer you to. A merchant who buys
>> ResellerRatings' services probably receives better published
>> reviews. That's the way things work in the world.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> --
>>> Mac Cool
>>>
>>>
>>> Path:
>newssvr12.news.prodigy.com!newsdbm05.news.prodigy.com!newsdst02.news.p
>rodigy.com!newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!border1.nntp.dca.gi
>ganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gn
>ilink.net!gnilink.net!cyclone.southeast.rr.com!news-post.tampabay.rr.c
>om!twister.southeast.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail
>>> Newsgroups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt
>>> Subject: Re: First attempt to assemble a computer -- advice
>appreciated
>>> From: Mac Cool <Mac@2cool.com>
>>> References: <Mepzd.24932$up.1129@lakeread08>
><Xns95CAE31173C92wisdomfolly@151.164.30.44>
><1104121925.362232c61f78a2bd7d3d8a9eb0776eaf@bubbanews>
><Xns95CBEBE846D75wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
><PlXzd.971$kc6.409175@twister.southeast.rr.com>
><Xns95CC7656A7603wisdomfolly@151.164.30.48>
>>> Message-ID: <Xns95CCF11B7650FMacCool@24.25.9.42>
>>> User-Agent: Xnews/06.12.01
>>> Lines: 27
>>> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 04:41:51 GMT
>>> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.163.49.47
>>> X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com
>>> X-Trace: twister.southeast.rr.com 1104208911 24.163.49.47 (Mon, 27
>Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST)
>>> NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 23:41:51 EST
>>> Organization: Road Runner - NC
>>> Xref: newsmst01a.news.prodigy.com
>alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt:425561
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
!