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AltGr key doesn't work in an MS-DOS window

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Anonymous
April 28, 2005 9:23:36 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

I've just performed a new install of the U.S. version of the Windows
Me Promotional Step-Up under MS Virtual PC 2004 SP1. I'm using a
French National ("AZERTY") keyboard.

I'm trying to get the French keyboard layout recognized in an MS-DOS
window. I tried following the instructions in MSKB 261417 -- I
launched MSCONFIG.EXE, clicked on the International tab, set the
Keyboard Layout to "fr", and rebooted, but this had no effect. The
keyboard under MS-DOS retained the U.S. layout.

To get the French layout partially recognized under MS-DOS, I found
that the Language ID had to be set to "fr", the Country Code had to be
set to 33, and the Keyboard Data File Name had to read "keyboard.sys"
(without the path). Per MSKB 272719, including the full path prevented
the new layout from being recognized. AFAICT, the following fields had
no effect: MS-DOS Code Page, Country Data File Name, Display Data File
Name, Keyboard Type, and Keyboard Layout.

However, no matter how I configure the International tab, the AltGr
key (the right-Alt key) still does not work and I have no access to
such characters as the backslash (AltGr + 8) or the at-sign (AltGr +
0) in the MS-DOS window. Of course, I can fall back to using the Alt
key codes or copy and paste from Character Map, but this is quite
cumbersome.

How can the AltGr key of the French keyboard be recognized in an
MS-DOS window when using the U.S. version of Windows Me?

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

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Anonymous
April 28, 2005 9:23:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

By US version of Win Me I assume you mean the English language version.

n American keyboards don't usually have an AltGr key which seems to be
very much a European feature. I'm using a UK qwerty keyboard so am not
sure how different the configuration of function keys is from a French
azerty keyboard but what happens if you use Ctrl-Alt instead of AltGr? On
my UK qwerty board Ctrl-Alt is identical to AltGr,
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I've just performed a new install of the U.S. version of the Windows
> Me Promotional Step-Up under MS Virtual PC 2004 SP1. I'm using a
> French National ("AZERTY") keyboard.
>
> I'm trying to get the French keyboard layout recognized in an MS-DOS
> window. I tried following the instructions in MSKB 261417 -- I
> launched MSCONFIG.EXE, clicked on the International tab, set the
> Keyboard Layout to "fr", and rebooted, but this had no effect. The
> keyboard under MS-DOS retained the U.S. layout.
>
> To get the French layout partially recognized under MS-DOS, I found
> that the Language ID had to be set to "fr", the Country Code had to be
> set to 33, and the Keyboard Data File Name had to read "keyboard.sys"
> (without the path). Per MSKB 272719, including the full path prevented
> the new layout from being recognized. AFAICT, the following fields had
> no effect: MS-DOS Code Page, Country Data File Name, Display Data File
> Name, Keyboard Type, and Keyboard Layout.
>
> However, no matter how I configure the International tab, the AltGr
> key (the right-Alt key) still does not work and I have no access to
> such characters as the backslash (AltGr + 8) or the at-sign (AltGr +
> 0) in the MS-DOS window. Of course, I can fall back to using the Alt
> key codes or copy and paste from Character Map, but this is quite
> cumbersome.
>
> How can the AltGr key of the French keyboard be recognized in an
> MS-DOS window when using the U.S. version of Windows Me?
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 12:25:30 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

Thanks for your quick response.

> By US version of Win Me I assume you mean the English language version.

I mean the U.S. version. There are many English-language versions. The
UK produces an English-language version (some would say the *only*
English-language version ;-) ), but it's not the U.S. version.

> American keyboards don't usually have an AltGr key

American users don't have any need for the AltGr key, since they don't
typically use accented characters. That's what makes the AltGr key
useful on the French keyboard.

> what happens if you use Ctrl-Alt instead of AltGr? On my UK qwerty board
> Ctrl-Alt is identical to AltGr

I've seen references to that in the newsgroups, but that does not
appear to work on a French keyboard. That is, the only way I can get
to AltGr characters is via AltGr. No other combination of
left-right-Ctrl-Alt-Shift seems to emulate AltGr.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Related resources
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 12:25:31 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
> Thanks for your quick response.
>
> I mean the U.S. version. There are many English-language versions. The
> UK produces an English-language version (some would say the *only*
> English-language version ;-) ), but it's not the U.S. version.

There is only one English language version of Win Me. There is no US
version nor is there a UK version nor an Australian version. FYI the UK
does NOT produce a UK version although CDs may be produced locally. The
only languages where the are multiple versions are Portuguese (Portugal
and Brazil) and Chinese (Simplified, Traditional and Traditional
(Taiwan)). A quick check shows 26 different language versions for Win Me
were released only one of which is English although there may be one or
two other customised versions produced for minority languages that aren't
generally available. I will post the list if you are particularly
interested. Correction, make that 27 rather than 26 as I now see Turkish
is missing from the list but that could be because of problems with the
Turkish version soon after Win Me's release.

> American users don't have any need for the AltGr key, since they don't
> typically use accented characters. That's what makes the AltGr key
> useful on the French keyboard.

I'm not certain that French Canadians would agree that they don't need
accents since it is n.American users not just US users who have no AltGr
key. :-) As I appreciate you realise there are other methods of producing
accented characters without the use of the AltGr key although I appreciate
that not having AltGr available is an inconvenience when you are used to
using that method although since the problem only applies when working in
a DOS window it should hopefully only be a minor inconvenience.

>> what happens if you use Ctrl-Alt instead of AltGr? On my UK qwerty
>> board Ctrl-Alt is identical to AltGr
>
> I've seen references to that in the newsgroups, but that does not
> appear to work on a French keyboard. That is, the only way I can get
> to AltGr characters is via AltGr. No other combination of
> left-right-Ctrl-Alt-Shift seems to emulate AltGr.

You may find a solution to the problem on the Microsoft Globalization web
site http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev. Alternatively you could try
posting to a newsgroup supporting the use of Win Me by French speaking
users such as the microsoft.public.fr.windowsme newsgroup.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:15:40 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

> There is only one English language version of Win Me.

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that.

> since the problem only applies when working in a DOS window it
> should hopefully only be a minor inconvenience.

If I felt it was minor, I wouldn't be posting. It effectively bars me
from the DOS prompt, which crimps my testing.

>You may find a solution to the problem on the Microsoft Globalization web
>site http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev

Thanks for the link. I had a look, but it's geared to current
products.

> ... you could try posting to a newsgroup supporting the
> use of Win Me by French speaking users such as...
> microsoft.public.fr.windowsme

Except they don't use the U.S., ahem, English version of Win Me, so
they won't be aware of the problem. If they *were* aware of the
problem, I would have seen something about it in the French newsgroup.

This is, after all, a problem in the English version, not the French
version.

A similar bug exists in NetMeeting: http://tinyurl.com/7w8u3
IOW, AltGr appears to be a key neglected by several MS project teams.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 6:15:41 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

> If I felt it was minor, I wouldn't be posting. It effectively bars me
> from the DOS prompt, which crimps my testing.

I'm not certain as to how much testing one can do from a DOS emulation
window in Win Me running as a VM but then you're the one doing the
developing so should hopefully know what you need. :-)

> Except they don't use the U.S., ahem, English version of Win Me, so
> they won't be aware of the problem. If they *were* aware of the
> problem, I would have seen something about it in the French newsgroup.
>
> This is, after all, a problem in the English version, not the French
> version.

Why do you say that? Personally I suspect that neither keyboard.sys nor
country.sys are particularly regionalised so the problem is probably
common to all Win Me systems regardless of the base language so would
suggest again that you ask in a French language group.

Out of curiosity what do you see when using Win 98SE or in DOS6.2? Is the
problem perhaps that DOS, or in this case the DOS emulator, is seeing
Ctrlkey (AltGr being Ctrl+Alt) and that AltGr simply doesn't work in DOS?
It isn't just when using a French keyboard layout that AltGr doesn't work
in a Win Me DOS window, it doesn't work with any keyboard as far as I can
see including English.

> IOW, AltGr appears to be a key neglected by several MS project teams.

That may well be true. I for one rarely use AltGr since I use a UK qwerty
keyboard and prefer to use different keystroke combinations for accented
letters and tend to use Ctrl-Alt instead of AltGr.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> There is only one English language version of Win Me.
>
> Thanks for the info. I didn't know that.
>
>> since the problem only applies when working in a DOS window it
>> should hopefully only be a minor inconvenience.
>
> If I felt it was minor, I wouldn't be posting. It effectively bars me
> from the DOS prompt, which crimps my testing.
>
>> You may find a solution to the problem on the Microsoft
>> Globalization web site http://www.microsoft.com/globaldev
>
> Thanks for the link. I had a look, but it's geared to current
> products.
>
>> ... you could try posting to a newsgroup supporting the
>> use of Win Me by French speaking users such as...
>> microsoft.public.fr.windowsme
>
> Except they don't use the U.S., ahem, English version of Win Me, so
> they won't be aware of the problem. If they *were* aware of the
> problem, I would have seen something about it in the French newsgroup.
>
> This is, after all, a problem in the English version, not the French
> version.
>
> A similar bug exists in NetMeeting: http://tinyurl.com/7w8u3
> IOW, AltGr appears to be a key neglected by several MS project teams.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:09:18 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

> I'm not certain as to how much testing one can do from a DOS emulation
> window in Win Me running as a VM

PING, for example, has a terrible GUI. ;-)

> neither keyboard.sys nor country.sys are particularly regionalised...
> so would suggest again that you ask in a French language group.

OK, you certainly convinced me to try a different group, but for a
different reason...

> ... what do you see when using Win 98SE or...

Glad you asked that! It turns out that, under MS Virtual PC 2004 SP1,
AltGr doesn't function in *any* COMMAND.COM session.

The AltGr key doesn't work in MS-DOS windows in the following virtual
machines:

Windows 98 Standard Edition English version
Windows 98 Standard Edition French version
Windows 98 Second Edition English version

The AltGr key doesn't work in a COMMAND.COM session opened in a
CMD.EXE window in the following virtual machines: Windows NT 4.0,
Windows 2000, and Windows XP Home/Pro. OTOH, there's no problem
getting AltGr to work in a CMD.EXE window in the virtual machines of
these O/S's.

I also tested AltGr function in MS-DOS windows of normal (non-virtual)
installs of Windows 98 Standard Edition English version and Windows 98
Second Edition English version; AltGr works just fine there.

Whenever AltGr works, so does Ctrl-Alt as an AltGr replacement. The
opposite is also true.

So, the problem is not in Windows Me at all, but in how MS Virtual PC
2004 SP1 handles AltGr in COMMAND.COM sessions. I suspect this problem
was not in the original release of MS Virtual PC 2004, but crept into
SP1, which I only installed recently.

I'll post about this, then, in the microsoft.public.virtualpc
newsgroup.

Mike, thanks for your help clarifying the nature of this problem.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 4:09:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

Like yourself I was starting to wonder if VPC might be part of the
problem. BTW VPC2004, that is without SP1, that I am still using on this
PC (to be exact VPC 2004 build 582), exhibits the same behaviour so it
wasn't introduced with SP1. I found the same results as yourself when
using 98, 98SE and Win Me in VPC 2004 but also in Win Me running natively
so was interested to read that 98 & 98SE when run natively are OK so
wonder if the problem occurs whenever command.com isn't running in real
mode.

I'm not surprised that cmd.exe behaves differently (which I knew but
didn't mention since your query was in respect of Win Me) but have to
admit to never having tried running command.com in a cmd.exe window. :-)

Please let me know what you discover from the VPC newsgroup,

Best wishes,
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> I'm not certain as to how much testing one can do from a DOS
>> emulation window in Win Me running as a VM
>
> PING, for example, has a terrible GUI. ;-)
>
>> neither keyboard.sys nor country.sys are particularly regionalised...
>> so would suggest again that you ask in a French language group.
>
> OK, you certainly convinced me to try a different group, but for a
> different reason...
>
>> ... what do you see when using Win 98SE or...
>
> Glad you asked that! It turns out that, under MS Virtual PC 2004 SP1,
> AltGr doesn't function in *any* COMMAND.COM session.
>
> The AltGr key doesn't work in MS-DOS windows in the following virtual
> machines:
>
> Windows 98 Standard Edition English version
> Windows 98 Standard Edition French version
> Windows 98 Second Edition English version
>
> The AltGr key doesn't work in a COMMAND.COM session opened in a
> CMD.EXE window in the following virtual machines: Windows NT 4.0,
> Windows 2000, and Windows XP Home/Pro. OTOH, there's no problem
> getting AltGr to work in a CMD.EXE window in the virtual machines of
> these O/S's.
>
> I also tested AltGr function in MS-DOS windows of normal (non-virtual)
> installs of Windows 98 Standard Edition English version and Windows 98
> Second Edition English version; AltGr works just fine there.
>
> Whenever AltGr works, so does Ctrl-Alt as an AltGr replacement. The
> opposite is also true.
>
> So, the problem is not in Windows Me at all, but in how MS Virtual PC
> 2004 SP1 handles AltGr in COMMAND.COM sessions. I suspect this problem
> was not in the original release of MS Virtual PC 2004, but crept into
> SP1, which I only installed recently.
>
> I'll post about this, then, in the microsoft.public.virtualpc
> newsgroup.
>
> Mike, thanks for your help clarifying the nature of this problem.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:57:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

I'm intrigued by two points you raised.

>BTW VPC2004, that is without SP1... exhibits the same behaviour so it
>wasn't introduced with SP1

You don't agree, then, with the post by
"anonym...@discussions.microsoft.com" here: http://tinyurl.com/baasl

Though it's possible I never noticed this under VPC2004 RTM, it's
unlikely. I use the command line frequently and it's hard to avoid the
backslash.

> I found the same results as yourself [with] ... Win Me running natively

I don't have Win Me installed natively here. You confirm, then, that
the AltGr key doesn't work in a native Win Me DOS window? (That is, I
ran into a Win Me bug after all? ;-) )

>wonder if the problem occurs whenever command.com isn't running in real
>mode.

Yes, that'd explain it.

>Please let me know what you discover from the VPC newsgroup,

I'll post there after our exchange is done. I'll certainly let you
know if there's closure.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 9:57:27 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

I confirm when running 98SE and Win Me under VPC2004 build 582 that
Alt-Ctrl does not work when in a DOS window. AFAIK build 582 is not SP1.
Yes, definitely not. I installed VPC on this box on 16 Sept '04 shortly
after a clean install of XP Pro SP2 but didn't download VPC2004 SP1 until
15 October and seemingly didn't get around to upgrading this particular
box.

I'm sorry but I don't follow tinyurls but it would appear the poster is
mistaken if they are saying that VPC2004 RTM doesn't exhibit the problem
when running either 98SE or Win Me..

The more I look at this problem I feel the reason for the problem is the
need for command.com to run in real mode to support Ctrl-Alt or AltGr.
That Win Me doesn't support this key combination brings me back to my
initial suggestion to check in a French or other European language Win Me
newsgroup where you might at least find an acceptable workaround since
Microsoft won't be fixing the problem due to Win Me, in common with all
Win9x systems, being out of support other than for critical security
updates.

Cheers,
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
> I'm intrigued by two points you raised.
>
>> BTW VPC2004, that is without SP1... exhibits the same behaviour so it
>> wasn't introduced with SP1
>
> You don't agree, then, with the post by
> "anonym...@discussions.microsoft.com" here: http://tinyurl.com/baasl
>
> Though it's possible I never noticed this under VPC2004 RTM, it's
> unlikely. I use the command line frequently and it's hard to avoid the
> backslash.
>
>> I found the same results as yourself [with] ... Win Me running
>> natively
>
> I don't have Win Me installed natively here. You confirm, then, that
> the AltGr key doesn't work in a native Win Me DOS window? (That is, I
> ran into a Win Me bug after all? ;-) )
>
>> wonder if the problem occurs whenever command.com isn't running in
>> real mode.
>
> Yes, that'd explain it.
>
>> Please let me know what you discover from the VPC newsgroup,
>
> I'll post there after our exchange is done. I'll certainly let you
> know if there's closure.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:44:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

>I'm sorry but I don't follow tinyurls.. the poster is mistaken if
>they are saying that VPC2004 RTM doesn't exhibit the problem
>when running either 98SE or Win Me..

Here's are the contents of the initial post in the thread:

>I have installed the Virtual PC 2004 trial with a virtual machine having
>MS-DOS 6.22 as a client OS. I have a belgian keyboard layout, and I cannot
>enter a backslash ('\') in a session.
>
>Normally, I'd push AltGr+'\' to achieve this (or Alt+Ctrl+'\' is also
>possible), but in the guest OS this does not seem to work.

The reply from "anonym...@discussions.microsoft.com" stated:

>maybe you have a problem with VPC SP1. The behaviour
>must be a new 'feature' of SP1. I have the same problem
>with my MS-DOS VPC since the update. Before it works
>fine. Yes, I load the new VM-Additions. I switch back to
>the pre SP1 version and it works again.

That's not proof, but it's troubling in that it's so specific.

.... you stated:
>brings me back to my initial suggestion to check in a French or
>other European language Win Me newsgroup where you might at least
>find an acceptable workaround

Yes, I'll try that after all, since this problem appears to be
widespread, which makes it all the more unlikely to have gotten this
far without a clear definition, much less a fix.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
April 29, 2005 11:55:15 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

I've only tried with 98SE and Win Me in VPC 2004 RTM and for those two
operating systems Alt-Ctrl/AltGr is quite definitely not recognised when
entered in a DOS window. I don't have a copy MS-DOS 6.22 in VPC2004 so
can't comment but will create one shortly.

I do note that VPC2004 SP1 did fix a problem when running DOS 6.22
relating to shared folders (details available if required), something that
was a problem with VPC 2004 RTM (see
http://vpc.visualwin.com/Notes/MSDOS.html) so the loss of Ctrl-Alt/AltGr
in VPC2004 SP1 could be a result of those changes.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> I'm sorry but I don't follow tinyurls.. the poster is mistaken if
>> they are saying that VPC2004 RTM doesn't exhibit the problem
>> when running either 98SE or Win Me..
>
> Here's are the contents of the initial post in the thread:
>
>> I have installed the Virtual PC 2004 trial with a virtual machine
>> having MS-DOS 6.22 as a client OS. I have a belgian keyboard layout,
>> and I cannot enter a backslash ('\') in a session.
>>
>> Normally, I'd push AltGr+'\' to achieve this (or Alt+Ctrl+'\' is also
>> possible), but in the guest OS this does not seem to work.
>
> The reply from "anonym...@discussions.microsoft.com" stated:
>
>> maybe you have a problem with VPC SP1. The behaviour
>> must be a new 'feature' of SP1. I have the same problem
>> with my MS-DOS VPC since the update. Before it works
>> fine. Yes, I load the new VM-Additions. I switch back to
>> the pre SP1 version and it works again.
>
> That's not proof, but it's troubling in that it's so specific.
>
> ... you stated:
>> brings me back to my initial suggestion to check in a French or
>> other European language Win Me newsgroup where you might at least
>> find an acceptable workaround
>
> Yes, I'll try that after all, since this problem appears to be
> widespread, which makes it all the more unlikely to have gotten this
> far without a clear definition, much less a fix.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 12:53:15 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

>VPC2004 build 582 that Alt-Ctrl does not work when in a DOS window.
>AFAIK build 582 is not SP1. Yes, definitely not

It turns out that build 582 _is_ SP1. In my VPC2004, under Help, About
Virtual PC..., I see: 5.3.582.27

Additionally, there's clear confirmation in
microsoft.public.fr.virtualpc that the AltGr problem did *not* exist
in the RTM version; it started in SP1

http://tinyurl.com/87l2a

I know you can't get to tinyurl's, but it's in French anyway. Here's
the comment by "jean michel vincent" in his post on Nov 22 2004, 2:16
am:

----------
Subject: Re: VIRTUAL PC 2004 SP1 plus d'accès clavier avec alt gr

Je confirme que la touche Alt Gr ne fonctionne plus depuis ma mise à
jour de VPC en SP1 (machine DOS, et W98 en mode DOS).
----------

English translation: I confirm that the AltGr key doesn't work since
my installation of VPC SP1 (DOS virtual machine and W98 in DOS mode).
(end translation)

FYI, there are several corroborating messages in that thread.

So, we're certainly dealing with a VPC2004 SP1 bug. I'm still
befuddled by the "native WMe" problem that you mentioned. Since
VPC2004 RTM did *not* have this problem, it's not endemic to non-real
mode COMMAND.COM after all.

Would you please confirm, one last time, that the AltGr key does not
work in a DOS box in a native Windows Me install?

IOW, is there just a single bug in VPC2004 SP1 or is there an
additional lapse in Windows Me?

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 12:53:16 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

> It turns out that build 582 _is_ SP1. In my VPC2004, under Help, About
> Virtual PC..., I see: 5.3.582.27

Incorrect. Build 582 is NOT SP1. In Help About I see Virtual PC 2004
(Build 582) not 5.3.582.27. As I have previously said this build was
installed on this PC on 15 September 2004 and VPC 2004 SP1 was not
released until mid October 2004 - around a month later. Also this is not
a beta build but rather a copy of the RTM version from my MSDN
subscription with the files all dated 22 October 2003 and VirtualPC.exe
being version 5.3.0.582.

Clear information or not I have to repeat that Ctrl-Alt/AltGr does not
work in VPC 2004 RTM for Win98SE. You are NOT dealing with a VPC SP1 bug.
As for Win Me, a native install of Win Me does not support Ctrl-Alt/AltGr
in a DOS window so that it does not in VPC is to be expected. This could
be a Win Me bug or be by design but as I've said already this isn't going
to be fixed by Microsoft as Win Me is out of support so if you need to fix
it then you will have to look to the French or other European language Win
Me newsgroup for a possible workaround. It's just possible that a hotfix
might have been made available about which I know nothing although I can
find nothing to indicate this in the English KB.
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> VPC2004 build 582 that Alt-Ctrl does not work when in a DOS window.
>> AFAIK build 582 is not SP1. Yes, definitely not
>
> It turns out that build 582 _is_ SP1. In my VPC2004, under Help, About
> Virtual PC..., I see: 5.3.582.27
>
> Additionally, there's clear confirmation in
> microsoft.public.fr.virtualpc that the AltGr problem did *not* exist
> in the RTM version; it started in SP1
>
> http://tinyurl.com/87l2a
>
> I know you can't get to tinyurl's, but it's in French anyway. Here's
> the comment by "jean michel vincent" in his post on Nov 22 2004, 2:16
> am:
>
> ----------
> Subject: Re: VIRTUAL PC 2004 SP1 plus d'accès clavier avec alt gr
>
> Je confirme que la touche Alt Gr ne fonctionne plus depuis ma mise à
> jour de VPC en SP1 (machine DOS, et W98 en mode DOS).
> ----------
>
> English translation: I confirm that the AltGr key doesn't work since
> my installation of VPC SP1 (DOS virtual machine and W98 in DOS mode).
> (end translation)
>
> FYI, there are several corroborating messages in that thread.
>
> So, we're certainly dealing with a VPC2004 SP1 bug. I'm still
> befuddled by the "native WMe" problem that you mentioned. Since
> VPC2004 RTM did *not* have this problem, it's not endemic to non-real
> mode COMMAND.COM after all.
>
> Would you please confirm, one last time, that the AltGr key does not
> work in a DOS box in a native Windows Me install?
>
> IOW, is there just a single bug in VPC2004 SP1 or is there an
> additional lapse in Windows Me?
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
April 30, 2005 9:34:01 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

I can't reproduce your findings.

>In Help About I see Virtual PC 2004 (Build 582)

I uninstalled VPC2004 SP1 and reinstalled RTM. Under Help, About
Virtual PC..., I see "Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 (Build 582)", the same
as you.

>the files all dated 22 October 2003 and VirtualPC.exe being
>version 5.3.0.582

OTOH, my files are all dated 17 October 2003 (14:00). The
VirtualPC.exe version number is identical: 5.3.0.582 (3,988,064
bytes).

>... I have to repeat that Ctrl-Alt/AltGr does not work in VPC 2004 RTM
>for Win98SE. You are NOT dealing with a VPC SP1 bug.

But I am convinced I am.

I tested the following systems under VPC2004 RTM:

Windows 98 Standard Edition English Version
Windows 98 Second Edition English Version
Windows Millennium Edition English Version
Windows 2000 SP4 French version

In every virtual install, my starting point was without Virtual
Machine Additions (VMA). In every system, the AZERTY keyboard *and*
the Alt Gr key was properly recognized under an MS-DOS prompt. This
includes a COMMAND.COM session opened under CMD.EXE in W2K. This also
includes an MS-DOS prompt under Windows Millennium. (Oops!) In every
system, when I installed VMA, there was no change in behavior -- the
Alt Gr key was recognized under an MS-DOS prompt.

>As for Win Me, a native install of Win Me does not support Ctrl-Alt/AltGr
>in a DOS window so that it does not in VPC is to be expected.

Just for the record, I have not tested a native Win Me English version
install, but, again, under VPC2004 RTM, the Alt Gr key works correctly
in a DOS window with an AZERTY keyboard. I have every reason to expect
it to behave similarly in a native install.

IOW, the behavior you have observed is exceptional. What I see
confirms what the French users reported -- the COMMAND.COM Alt Gr bug
was introduced by VPC2004 SP1. It has nothing to do with the O/S,
**Windows Me included**.

Here's the TinyURL link to the French users' bug report:
http://tinyurl.com/87l2a

I have thus posted in the wrong newsgroup about the Alt Gr problem and
I will shortly post a message in microsoft.public.virtualpc.

Mike, thanks for your help in understanding this bug.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

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Anonymous
April 30, 2005 11:19:26 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

My tests in all cases were made with the Virtual Machine Additions
installed so that's one major difference between our two setups. I also
changed my default VPC hotkey from Alt Right to PrntScrn whilst testing.
This would suggests that VMA may well be a factor.
[VMAdditions013040.iso, 24.9 MB (26,148,864 bytes) - 22 October 2003,
13:00:00]

However I have to repeat that a clean native install here of Win Me
(English) configured with a UK qwerty keyboard does not support
Ctrl-Alt/AltGr in a DOS window. When the keyboard layout is changed to
French (Standard) (but still with a 102 UK qwerty keyboard actually
connected) and set to 033/fr in MSConfig | International I am seeing some
very odd results - probably because I'm not too familiar with AltGr
combinations with an azerty layout. AltGr is now being recognised in a
DOS window but NOT Ctrl-Alt (which is something you mentioned many posts
ago).

To summarize.
Win Me (English)
QWERTY layout and 044/uk
AltGr + e produces a lower case e acute (é) in Win Me but not when
entered in a DOS window. Ctrl-Alt + e produces the same results.
AZERTY (but using a physical QWERTY keyboard) and 033/fr
AltGr + e produces a Euro (€) symbol in Win Me but not when entered in a
DOS window.
Ctrl-Alt + e produces a Euro (€) symbol in Win Me but not when entered in
a DOS window.
AltGr + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me and also when entered
in a DOS window.
Ctrl-Alt + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me but not when
entered in a DOS window.

I'm a little intrigued by the Euro (€) not being capable of input in a DOS
window but suspect that this might be either a code page or font problem
as most if not all other valid AltGr key combinations seem to be working
including the ability to produce a backslash (\) and commercial at (@)
symbol. Ctrl-Alt does not appear to work in a DOS window for either a UK
or French keyboard layout.

> OTOH, my files are all dated 17 October 2003 (14:00). The
> VirtualPC.exe version number is identical: 5.3.0.582 (3,988,064
> bytes).

How odd. Mine are quite definitely dated 22 Oct 2003 (13:00) but the time
will vary with our time zone but changing the date by 5 days seems very
odd. :-) Oh, my copy of Virtual PC.exe is the same size as yours (3.80
MB (3,988,064 bytes)). I wonder why the MSDN copy has a different date.

I don't think that there is more that I can do here. I see a problem with
Win Me (English) when configured to use a UK qwerty keyboard in that
neither Ctrl-Alt not AltGr are recognised when in a DOS window but none
when configured to use a French azerty keyboard. All other problems seem
to be due to VPC2004 SP1 which you are dealing with elsewhere.

Cheers,
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
> I can't reproduce your findings.
>
>> In Help About I see Virtual PC 2004 (Build 582)
>
> I uninstalled VPC2004 SP1 and reinstalled RTM. Under Help, About
> Virtual PC..., I see "Microsoft Virtual PC 2004 (Build 582)", the same
> as you.
>
>> the files all dated 22 October 2003 and VirtualPC.exe being
>> version 5.3.0.582
>
> OTOH, my files are all dated 17 October 2003 (14:00). The
> VirtualPC.exe version number is identical: 5.3.0.582 (3,988,064
> bytes).
>
>> ... I have to repeat that Ctrl-Alt/AltGr does not work in VPC 2004
>> RTM for Win98SE. You are NOT dealing with a VPC SP1 bug.
>
> But I am convinced I am.
>
> I tested the following systems under VPC2004 RTM:
>
> Windows 98 Standard Edition English Version
> Windows 98 Second Edition English Version
> Windows Millennium Edition English Version
> Windows 2000 SP4 French version
>
> In every virtual install, my starting point was without Virtual
> Machine Additions (VMA). In every system, the AZERTY keyboard *and*
> the Alt Gr key was properly recognized under an MS-DOS prompt. This
> includes a COMMAND.COM session opened under CMD.EXE in W2K. This also
> includes an MS-DOS prompt under Windows Millennium. (Oops!) In every
> system, when I installed VMA, there was no change in behavior -- the
> Alt Gr key was recognized under an MS-DOS prompt.
>
>> As for Win Me, a native install of Win Me does not support
>> Ctrl-Alt/AltGr in a DOS window so that it does not in VPC is to be
>> expected.
>
> Just for the record, I have not tested a native Win Me English version
> install, but, again, under VPC2004 RTM, the Alt Gr key works correctly
> in a DOS window with an AZERTY keyboard. I have every reason to expect
> it to behave similarly in a native install.
>
> IOW, the behavior you have observed is exceptional. What I see
> confirms what the French users reported -- the COMMAND.COM Alt Gr bug
> was introduced by VPC2004 SP1. It has nothing to do with the O/S,
> **Windows Me included**.
>
> Here's the TinyURL link to the French users' bug report:
> http://tinyurl.com/87l2a
>
> I have thus posted in the wrong newsgroup about the Alt Gr problem and
> I will shortly post a message in microsoft.public.virtualpc.
>
> Mike, thanks for your help in understanding this bug.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 10:38:12 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

>My tests in all cases were made with the Virtual Machine Additions
>installed so that's one major difference between our two setups.

I don't think our setups are different with respect to VMA.

I wanted to see if VMA had any effect, so when I installed VPC RTM, I
did the initial tests without VMA installed, then repeated the tests
with it installed. VMA had no effect on the function of Alt Gr.

Before I uninstalled SP1, I did the tests in the same O/S's in reverse
order. I compared Alt Gr function with VMA installed (my default
config) and then after I'd uninstalled VMA. Again, there was no effect
on the function of Alt Gr.

>This would suggests that VMA may well be a factor.

I think VMA can be eliminated as a factor.

>... a clean native install here of Win Me (English) configured with
>a UK qwerty keyboard does not support Ctrl-Alt/AltGr in a DOS window.

It may be that the UK Alt Gr key doesn't work in _any_ O/S in
COMMAND.COM. Please open a command prompt (CMD.EXE) box on your native
O/S install, start a COMMAND.COM session and try the Alt Gr key. Does
it work?

>AltGr is now being recognised in a DOS window but NOT Ctrl-Alt
>(which is something you mentioned many posts ago).

I made a statement in my 29 April 12:09 post that I need to *retract*:

>>Whenever AltGr works, so does Ctrl-Alt as an AltGr replacement. The
>>opposite is also true.

I can't reproduce that behavior of Ctrl-Alt. :-( At the moment, I
can't get Ctrl-Alt to work in any COMMAND.COM session, native or
virtual, VPC2004 RTM or SP1. I can only get Ctrl-Alt to work in
CMD.EXE sessions and in certain Windows applications. It works in
Notepad, for instance, but not in another Windows text editor,
PFE32.EXE.

So, AFAICT, the fact that Ctrl-Alt doesn't work in a native Win Me DOS
window appears normal. Sorry for the confusion. I'm still trying to
understand what I was doing when I made that statement on 29 April.

>QWERTY layout and 044/uk
>AltGr + e produces a lower case e acute (é) in Win Me but not when
>entered in a DOS window. Ctrl-Alt + e produces the same results.

I suspect that for some reason known only to the Me-gods, the Alt Gr
key has been disabled under Win Me COMMAND.COM for the UK keyboard.
I'll be interested to learn if it works in COMMAND.COM under CMD.EXE
in your native install.

>AZERTY (but using a physical QWERTY keyboard) and 033/fr
>AltGr + e produces a Euro (€) symbol in Win Me but not when entered in a
>DOS window.

That's universally true. The euro symbol is not in the DOS ASCII
character set. BTW, the Alt Gr-e shortcut only works with Windows
fonts that are euro-enabled.

>Ctrl-Alt + e produces a Euro (€) symbol in Win Me but not when entered in
>a DOS window.

I'm unable to get Ctrl-Alt to work in any DOS window.

>AltGr + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me and also when entered
>in a DOS window.

So you've confirmed that the Alt Gr key *does* work after all!

>Ctrl-Alt + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me but not when
>entered in a DOS window.

I confirm what you see for Ctrl-Alt in a DOS window.

>I see a problem with Win Me (English) when configured to use a
>UK qwerty keyboard in that neither Ctrl-Alt not AltGr are recognised
>when in a DOS window

Let's exclude lack of Ctrl-Alt functionality as a problem symptom.

>... but none when configured to use a French azerty keyboard.

So your native Win Me is behaving like my virtual Win Me under VPC
RTM, which points to VPC SP1 as being the culprit in this saga.

>All other problems seem to be due to VPC2004 SP1 which you are
>dealing with elsewhere.

I think that all the problems are due to VPC SP1. You've identified
that Alt Gr on a UK keyboard does not work in a Win Me COMMAND.COM
box. Let's see what happens when you try it in your native O/S.

FYI, I posted to microsoft.public.virtualpc about the VPC SP1 problem
yesterday, 30 April. It can be viewed here: http://tinyurl.com/brcff

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
May 1, 2005 10:38:13 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

> I think that all the problems are due to VPC SP1. You've identified
> that Alt Gr on a UK keyboard does not work in a Win Me COMMAND.COM
> box. Let's see what happens when you try it in your native O/S.

Win Me (English) COMMAND.COM will not run in an XP Pro SP2 command prompt
(cmd) window reporting "Incorrect MS-DOS version".
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> My tests in all cases were made with the Virtual Machine Additions
>> installed so that's one major difference between our two setups.
>
> I don't think our setups are different with respect to VMA.
>
> I wanted to see if VMA had any effect, so when I installed VPC RTM, I
> did the initial tests without VMA installed, then repeated the tests
> with it installed. VMA had no effect on the function of Alt Gr.
>
> Before I uninstalled SP1, I did the tests in the same O/S's in reverse
> order. I compared Alt Gr function with VMA installed (my default
> config) and then after I'd uninstalled VMA. Again, there was no effect
> on the function of Alt Gr.
>
>> This would suggests that VMA may well be a factor.
>
> I think VMA can be eliminated as a factor.
>
>> ... a clean native install here of Win Me (English) configured with
>> a UK qwerty keyboard does not support Ctrl-Alt/AltGr in a DOS window.
>
> It may be that the UK Alt Gr key doesn't work in _any_ O/S in
> COMMAND.COM. Please open a command prompt (CMD.EXE) box on your native
> O/S install, start a COMMAND.COM session and try the Alt Gr key. Does
> it work?
>
>> AltGr is now being recognised in a DOS window but NOT Ctrl-Alt
>> (which is something you mentioned many posts ago).
>
> I made a statement in my 29 April 12:09 post that I need to *retract*:
>
>>> Whenever AltGr works, so does Ctrl-Alt as an AltGr replacement. The
>>> opposite is also true.
>
> I can't reproduce that behavior of Ctrl-Alt. :-( At the moment, I
> can't get Ctrl-Alt to work in any COMMAND.COM session, native or
> virtual, VPC2004 RTM or SP1. I can only get Ctrl-Alt to work in
> CMD.EXE sessions and in certain Windows applications. It works in
> Notepad, for instance, but not in another Windows text editor,
> PFE32.EXE.
>
> So, AFAICT, the fact that Ctrl-Alt doesn't work in a native Win Me DOS
> window appears normal. Sorry for the confusion. I'm still trying to
> understand what I was doing when I made that statement on 29 April.
>
>> QWERTY layout and 044/uk
>> AltGr + e produces a lower case e acute (é) in Win Me but not when
>> entered in a DOS window. Ctrl-Alt + e produces the same results.
>
> I suspect that for some reason known only to the Me-gods, the Alt Gr
> key has been disabled under Win Me COMMAND.COM for the UK keyboard.
> I'll be interested to learn if it works in COMMAND.COM under CMD.EXE
> in your native install.
>
>> AZERTY (but using a physical QWERTY keyboard) and 033/fr
>> AltGr + e produces a Euro (?) symbol in Win Me but not when entered
>> in a DOS window.
>
> That's universally true. The euro symbol is not in the DOS ASCII
> character set. BTW, the Alt Gr-e shortcut only works with Windows
> fonts that are euro-enabled.
>
>> Ctrl-Alt + e produces a Euro (?) symbol in Win Me but not when
>> entered in a DOS window.
>
> I'm unable to get Ctrl-Alt to work in any DOS window.
>
>> AltGr + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me and also when
>> entered in a DOS window.
>
> So you've confirmed that the Alt Gr key *does* work after all!
>
>> Ctrl-Alt + 4 produces a left curly brace ({) in Win Me but not when
>> entered in a DOS window.
>
> I confirm what you see for Ctrl-Alt in a DOS window.
>
>> I see a problem with Win Me (English) when configured to use a
>> UK qwerty keyboard in that neither Ctrl-Alt not AltGr are recognised
>> when in a DOS window
>
> Let's exclude lack of Ctrl-Alt functionality as a problem symptom.
>
>> ... but none when configured to use a French azerty keyboard.
>
> So your native Win Me is behaving like my virtual Win Me under VPC
> RTM, which points to VPC SP1 as being the culprit in this saga.
>
>> All other problems seem to be due to VPC2004 SP1 which you are
>> dealing with elsewhere.
>
> I think that all the problems are due to VPC SP1. You've identified
> that Alt Gr on a UK keyboard does not work in a Win Me COMMAND.COM
> box. Let's see what happens when you try it in your native O/S.
>
> FYI, I posted to microsoft.public.virtualpc about the VPC SP1 problem
> yesterday, 30 April. It can be viewed here: http://tinyurl.com/brcff
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:06:45 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:

>> I think that all the problems are due to VPC SP1. You've identified
>> that Alt Gr on a UK keyboard does not work in a Win Me COMMAND.COM
>> box. Let's see what happens when you try it in your native O/S.
>
>Win Me (English) COMMAND.COM will not run in an XP Pro SP2 command prompt
>(cmd) window reporting "Incorrect MS-DOS version".

Sorry, not what I meant.

Please open an XP Pro SP2 command prompt (CMD.EXE). Then, start an
MS-DOS session by typing directly "COMMAND.COM".

Does the UK keyboard Alt Gr key work?

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
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**********
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 5:06:46 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

Sorry I thought you wanted me to try Win Me's command.com in an XP's
command prompt window (I couldn't think why but thought I ought to humour
you since the subject of this thread was Win Me's behaviour). When
running XP's version of command.com neither Alt-Gr nor Ctrl-Del work with
UK settings and a UK qwerty keyboard which comes as no big surprise.
Incidentally XP's version of command.com hasn't altered since XP went RTM
in 2001 so XP's SP level is immaterial..
--
Mike Maltby MS-MVP
mike.maltby@gmail.com


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> "Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:
>
>>> I think that all the problems are due to VPC SP1. You've identified
>>> that Alt Gr on a UK keyboard does not work in a Win Me COMMAND.COM
>>> box. Let's see what happens when you try it in your native O/S.
>>
>> Win Me (English) COMMAND.COM will not run in an XP Pro SP2 command
>> prompt (cmd) window reporting "Incorrect MS-DOS version".
>
> Sorry, not what I meant.
>
> Please open an XP Pro SP2 command prompt (CMD.EXE). Then, start an
> MS-DOS session by typing directly "COMMAND.COM".
>
> Does the UK keyboard Alt Gr key work?
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 2:09:37 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

>When running XP's version of command.com neither Alt-Gr nor
>Ctrl-Del work with UK settings and a UK qwerty keyboard

Then I venture we've narrowed this down to one bug in VPC2004 SP1 and
two quirks in COMMAND.COM.

Bug: VPC2004 RTM correctly recognizes the French keyboard Alt Gr
key.under COMMAND.COM; VPC2004 SP1 does not.

Quirk #1: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes the
UK keyboard Alt Gr key.

Quirk #2: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes
Ctrl-Alt as a replacement for Alt Gr on the French or UK keyboards.

My guess is that the bug and quirk #2 extend to all keyboards with the
Alt Gr key.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
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**********
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 2:09:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andy,

That seems a fair summary of the results to date. Would you like me to
forward this to my contacts at Microsoft or do you want to take it from
here?

Mike


Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
>> When running XP's version of command.com neither Alt-Gr nor
>> Ctrl-Del work with UK settings and a UK qwerty keyboard
>
> Then I venture we've narrowed this down to one bug in VPC2004 SP1 and
> two quirks in COMMAND.COM.
>
> Bug: VPC2004 RTM correctly recognizes the French keyboard Alt Gr
> key.under COMMAND.COM; VPC2004 SP1 does not.
>
> Quirk #1: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes the
> UK keyboard Alt Gr key.
>
> Quirk #2: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes
> Ctrl-Alt as a replacement for Alt Gr on the French or UK keyboards.
>
> My guess is that the bug and quirk #2 extend to all keyboards with the
> Alt Gr key.
>
> regards, Andy
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 7:08:25 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

I would very much appreciate you forwarding this. Thanks for offering.

regards, Andy

"Mike M" <No_Spam@Corned_Beef.Only> wrote:

>Andy,
>
>That seems a fair summary of the results to date. Would you like me to
>forward this to my contacts at Microsoft or do you want to take it from
>here?
>
>Mike
>
>
>Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi, Mike.
>>
>>> When running XP's version of command.com neither Alt-Gr nor
>>> Ctrl-Del work with UK settings and a UK qwerty keyboard
>>
>> Then I venture we've narrowed this down to one bug in VPC2004 SP1 and
>> two quirks in COMMAND.COM.
>>
>> Bug: VPC2004 RTM correctly recognizes the French keyboard Alt Gr
>> key.under COMMAND.COM; VPC2004 SP1 does not.
>>
>> Quirk #1: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes the
>> UK keyboard Alt Gr key.
>>
>> Quirk #2: No version of COMMAND.COM (native or virtual) recognizes
>> Ctrl-Alt as a replacement for Alt Gr on the French or UK keyboards.
>>
>> My guess is that the bug and quirk #2 extend to all keyboards with the
>> Alt Gr key.
>>
>> regards, Andy

--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 7:13:32 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Andrew Aronoff <NOSPAM_WRONG.ADDRESS@yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, Mike.
>
> I would very much appreciate you forwarding this. Thanks for offering.

Andy,

Will do. Don't expect too much to come of it but it's probably still
worth passing on. Before I do so, do you want me to mention your
involvement (which was 100% against my 5%) and if so you might want to
e-mail me an e-mail address? If so please send to me at mikem@mvps.org.

Cheers,

Mike M
Anonymous
May 2, 2005 8:44:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi, Mike.

>Don't expect too much to come of it

I never expect, but I keep my fingers crossed. My fingers hurt like
the blazes, since I've got them tied up in knots. ;-)

>do you want me to mention your involvement

My newsgroup posts are never anonymous, so please feel free to
identify me.

>[your XX]% against my [YY]%

Without your steady guidance, I would not have made it past the first
off-target post. Thanks for your help.

>you might want to e-mail me an e-mail address

My e-mail address appears in the signature of every message I send.

regards, Andy
--
**********

Please send e-mail to: usenet (dot) post (at) aaronoff (dot) com

To identify everything that starts up with Windows, download
"Silent Runners.vbs" at www.silentrunners.org

**********
!