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Surge protector and UPS

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 12:13:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
is very reliable.

Do you have either?
Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?

More about : surge protector ups

February 2, 2005 12:13:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I use a UPS and have been glad to have it. I live in Alaska, and we can
depend on occasional power outages. Not frequently, but you can bet it's
going to happen. Each time, the UPS has worked as advertised, and has
allowed me to close programs and turn off the computer, or has shutdown the
computer automatically in my absence. It also offers surge protection (1260
joules) on all 6 outlets (only 3 outlets are battery b/u.

Fitz
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 6:46:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Petepenguin@webtv.net (P T) wrote:

>I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge
>protector, I guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the
>electricity in my city is very reliable.
>Do you have either?

I have surge suppressors. I have used backup power supplies.

>Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?

The reverse question is easier to answer. And yes, some have been
hurt by the lack of a surge suppressor. It's common knowledge. And
some surge protectors are better than others.

A backup power supply can be very useful. An intermediate step is a
line conditioner.

Have fun.
Related resources
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 10:42:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

P T writes:

> Do you have either?

All three of my machines are on UPS with battery backup.

> Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?

It's hard to say, since you don't necessarily know when it has saved
your machines. I know people who have lost their machines because they
_didn't_ have surge protection, though.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 12:50:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

The surge protector adjacent to an electronic appliance
provides the surge with more destructive paths through that
appliance. I have personally confirmed this by replacing
damaged ICs; following the surge path. Where the protector is
located determines the protector effectiveness. Those who
promote ineffective plug-in protectors would avoid mentioning
this additional fact.

Any protector components that will be effective at the
appliance is already inside the appliance - an industry
requirement. Effective internal protection that may be
overwhelmed if a 'whole house' protection system is not
installed. Notice what makes internal appliance protection
effective - 'whole house' protection that is not located
adjacent to the appliance.

What does a protector inside a UPS do? It does not stop,
block, absorb, or filter a surge. But those promoting plug-in
protectors hope you will believe an adjacent protector will
stop or absorb a surge. Will that silly little adjacent
protector stop what miles of sky could not? It must to be
effective. But it will not.

Called a shunt mode protector for very good reason. To
provide protection, it shunts (distributes the surge to all
other wires). Now that surge is on other wires and still
seeking what? Earth ground. An adjacent protector has
provided a surge more paths to find earth ground,
destructively, via your computer. What kind of protection is
that? Ineffective.

You tell me how a UPS is going to stop or block what miles
of sky could not. That is the myth. The UPS claims
protection from a type of surge that is typically not
destructive. Its manufacturer hopes you will assume all
surges are of same type. It is called mythical protection.
Therefore that UPS avoids all discussion about earth ground.

You need 'whole house' protection on every incoming utility
line at the service entrance. Code demands such be installed
on cable and phone line. That's right. Your phone line
already has a 'whole house' protector installed free by the
telco - because it is so inexpensive and so effective. But
one utility line that typically has no 'whole house' protector
is AC electric. AC electric is the most common source of
destructive surges to, for example, computer modems. 'Whole
house' would be an effective protector that costs about $1 per
protected appliance. How much is that plug-in protector for
protection that does not even claim to be effective? The
better protector also costs tens of times less money.

A UPS is for data protection. For hardware protection, you
require a 'whole house' protector. They are widely available
- even in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC. Other sources
include Leviton, Furse, Square D, Erico, etc. A benchmark in
this business is Polyphaser. But those who never learned what
is effective protection also never heard of Polyphaser.

How to identify ineffective plug-in protectors - UPS or
power strip. 1) Has no dedicated connection to earth ground.
2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. That
UPS manufacturer meets the criteria for ineffective twice
over. A computer internally contains any protection that is
effective adjacent to the computer. You must install 'whole
house' protector so that computer's internal protection is not
overwhelmed. The plug-in UPS manufacturer and those who
promote the half truths will avoid these facts.

I have built and tested surge protectors against lightning.
Plug-in protectors are ineffective which is also why they are
typically undersized. They are not selling effective
protection. But would have others promote this myth: "surge
protector = surge protection". It is called junk science
reasoning. Surge protector and surge protection are two
different components of a surge protection system. Get the
'whole house' protector and the most critical component in
surge protection - the single point earth ground. A protector
is only as effective as its earth ground - which plug-in
protectors hope you don't learn.

Yes I built them before PCs existed. They were roundly
effective, but only when connected less than 10 feet to a
single point earth ground.

P T wrote:
> I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
> guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
> is very reliable.
>
> Do you have either?
> Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 6:49:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

You seem to have an interest in gambling, judging by your computer
behavior... Hope you don't get burned.

--
DaveW



"P T" <Petepenguin@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3852-42004556-445@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net...
>I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
> guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
> is very reliable.
>
> Do you have either?
> Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 7:52:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

P T wrote:
> I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
> guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
> is very reliable.
>
> Do you have either?
> Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?
>

Most UPSs have built in surge protectors. I use an APC UPS and so does
my wife. Brown outs are not uncommon here, and those are hard drive
killers. Not to mention data loss, etc, even if the drive remains
healthy after exposure to several over the years.

Cheers,

Ari

--
spammage trappage: replace fishies_ with yahoo

I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
http://www.abmdr.org.au/
http://www.marrow.org/
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 2, 2005 10:03:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

w_tom wrote:

> The surge protector adjacent to an electronic appliance
> provides the surge with more destructive paths through that
> appliance. I have personally confirmed this by replacing
> damaged ICs; following the surge path. Where the protector is
> located determines the protector effectiveness. Those who
> promote ineffective plug-in protectors would avoid mentioning
> this additional fact.
>
> Any protector components that will be effective at the
> appliance is already inside the appliance - an industry
> requirement. Effective internal protection that may be
> overwhelmed if a 'whole house' protection system is not
> installed. Notice what makes internal appliance protection
> effective - 'whole house' protection that is not located
> adjacent to the appliance.
>
> What does a protector inside a UPS do? It does not stop,
> block, absorb, or filter a surge. But those promoting plug-in
> protectors hope you will believe an adjacent protector will
> stop or absorb a surge. Will that silly little adjacent
> protector stop what miles of sky could not? It must to be
> effective. But it will not.
>
> Called a shunt mode protector for very good reason. To
> provide protection, it shunts (distributes the surge to all
> other wires). Now that surge is on other wires and still
> seeking what? Earth ground. An adjacent protector has
> provided a surge more paths to find earth ground,
> destructively, via your computer. What kind of protection is
> that? Ineffective.
>
> You tell me how a UPS is going to stop or block what miles
> of sky could not. That is the myth. The UPS claims
> protection from a type of surge that is typically not
> destructive. Its manufacturer hopes you will assume all
> surges are of same type. It is called mythical protection.
> Therefore that UPS avoids all discussion about earth ground.
>
> You need 'whole house' protection on every incoming utility
> line at the service entrance. Code demands such be installed
> on cable and phone line. That's right. Your phone line
> already has a 'whole house' protector installed free by the
> telco - because it is so inexpensive and so effective. But
> one utility line that typically has no 'whole house' protector
> is AC electric. AC electric is the most common source of
> destructive surges to, for example, computer modems. 'Whole
> house' would be an effective protector that costs about $1 per
> protected appliance. How much is that plug-in protector for
> protection that does not even claim to be effective? The
> better protector also costs tens of times less money.
>
> A UPS is for data protection. For hardware protection, you
> require a 'whole house' protector. They are widely available
> - even in Home Depot as Intermatic IG1240RC. Other sources
> include Leviton, Furse, Square D, Erico, etc. A benchmark in
> this business is Polyphaser. But those who never learned what
> is effective protection also never heard of Polyphaser.
>
> How to identify ineffective plug-in protectors - UPS or
> power strip. 1) Has no dedicated connection to earth ground.
> 2) Manufacturer avoids all discussion about earthing. That
> UPS manufacturer meets the criteria for ineffective twice
> over. A computer internally contains any protection that is
> effective adjacent to the computer. You must install 'whole
> house' protector so that computer's internal protection is not
> overwhelmed. The plug-in UPS manufacturer and those who
> promote the half truths will avoid these facts.
>
> I have built and tested surge protectors against lightning.
> Plug-in protectors are ineffective which is also why they are
> typically undersized. They are not selling effective
> protection. But would have others promote this myth: "surge
> protector = surge protection". It is called junk science
> reasoning. Surge protector and surge protection are two
> different components of a surge protection system. Get the
> 'whole house' protector and the most critical component in
> surge protection - the single point earth ground. A protector
> is only as effective as its earth ground - which plug-in
> protectors hope you don't learn.
>
> Yes I built them before PCs existed. They were roundly
> effective, but only when connected less than 10 feet to a
> single point earth ground.

A pile of poppycock.

>
> P T wrote:
>
>>I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
>>guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
>>is very reliable.
>>
>>Do you have either?
>>Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 3:10:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

We had a large power transformer out on a pole in the street, blow up. 4
computers were destroyed*. All 4 computers were on surge suppressors,
pricey ones at that. The power company paid us for the loss of equipment.


*Months later, after the settlement we ended up replacing the power supplies
and all 4 machines worked again! We did not try hard to get money from the
power company, they basically volunteered.


"P T" <Petepenguin@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:3852-42004556-445@storefull-3134.bay.webtv.net...
>I don't have either. Have had no problems. As for a surge protector, I
> guess I've never had a surge. As for a UPS, the electricity in my city
> is very reliable.
>
> Do you have either?
> Know of anyone who benefitted from a surge protector?
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 10:10:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Posted previously:
> The surge protector adjacent to an electronic appliance
> provides the surge with more destructive paths through
> that appliance.

Posted by dg only demonstrates that plug-in protector do as
they claim:
> 4 computers were destroyed*. All 4 computers were on surge
> suppressors, pricey ones at that.

Those plug-in protectors claim to protect from one type of
surge. They hope you will *assume* they protect from all
types of surges. dg only demonstrated that the plug-in
protectors did exactly as they claim.

The much less expensive solution is also the solution to
effective protection - 'whole house' protector that connects
less than 10 feet to single point earth ground. A protector
is only as effective as its earth ground - which those plug-in
protector do not have.

dg wrote:
> We had a large power transformer out on a pole in the street, blow
> up. 4 computers were destroyed*. All 4 computers were on surge
> suppressors, pricey ones at that. The power company paid us for
> the loss of equipment.
>
> *Months later, after the settlement we ended up replacing the
> power supplies and all 4 machines worked again! We did not try
> hard to get money from the power company, they basically
> volunteered.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 8, 2005 6:06:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

w_tom wrote:

> Posted previously:
>
>> The surge protector adjacent to an electronic appliance
>>provides the surge with more destructive paths through
>>that appliance.

And still poppycock


> Posted by dg only demonstrates that plug-in protector do as
> they claim:
>
>>4 computers were destroyed*. All 4 computers were on surge
>>suppressors, pricey ones at that.
>
>
> Those plug-in protectors claim to protect from one type of
> surge. They hope you will *assume* they protect from all
> types of surges. dg only demonstrated that the plug-in
> protectors did exactly as they claim.

No, what dg's post indicates is the protectors were not properly installed.

>
> The much less expensive solution is also the solution to
> effective protection - 'whole house' protector that connects
> less than 10 feet to single point earth ground.

Whole house protectors have too high a let through voltage, which is why
reputable suppliers recommend local surge protectors in addition to the
whole house protector.

> A protector
> is only as effective as its earth ground

Which explains, no doubt, why airplanes routinely drop out of the sky like
dead flies every time a rain cloud appears because their 'no earth ground'
electrical system gets french fried.

zap plop
zap plop
zap plop
zap plop

Well, they get grounded eventually.


> - which those plug-in
> protector do not have.
>
> dg wrote:
>
>>We had a large power transformer out on a pole in the street, blow
>>up. 4 computers were destroyed*. All 4 computers were on surge
>>suppressors, pricey ones at that. The power company paid us for
>>the loss of equipment.
>>
>>*Months later, after the settlement we ended up replacing the
>>power supplies and all 4 machines worked again! We did not try
>>hard to get money from the power company, they basically
>>volunteered.
!