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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 3:24:28 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

If you were building a system today:

1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
would you stick with PCI and AGP?

2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?
--
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 3:24:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Howard Kaikow wrote:

> If you were building a system today:
>
> 1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
> would you stick with PCI and AGP?

I stuck with PCI/AGP. Cheaper, and my take on it is that by the
time there's anything out that will really take advantage of
PCI-X, it'll be time to upgrade anyway...

YMMV, of course.


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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 5:09:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

It'll probably be at least 12-24 months before there's really any
worthwhile software designed to take advantage of PCI-Express, and it
doesn't seem like the technology makes a very significant difference
with current games. I choose to go with a normal PCI/AGP motherboard (I
just bought a new one last week), and that's what I reccomend. By the
time any worthwhile PCI-X software is out, the motherboards will have
only gotten cheaper.
As far as the Firewire/on-board graphics goes, that's a no brainer.
I'd never use on-board graphics hardware unless the machine I was
building was simply for office use (i.e. word processing) where it
whouldn't make any difference. Get the Firewire equipped mobo and buy
a decent video card. As a side note though, I was able to pick up a
PC/MAC compatible Belkin Firewire card for like $29 at a Circuit City.
So it's not an expensive add-on.
Related resources
February 4, 2005 6:23:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

it is simple, yes pci express is the way to go with a new system.
Firewire, if not on the board can be purchased as a pci card for about 20
dollars.
If you plan to play games, integrated graphics are out, btw that is why you
get the pci express. The video cards for pcix are fairly reasonable.
"Howard Kaikow" <kaikow@standards.com> wrote in message
news:ctv0ti$93v$1@pyrite.mv.net...
> If you were building a system today:
>
> 1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
> would you stick with PCI and AGP?
>
> 2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics,
> or
> would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?
> --
> http://www.standards.com/; See Howard Kaikow's web site.
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 10:24:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Howard Kaikow" <kaikow@standards.com> wrote:

> If you were building a system today:
>1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP
>slot, or would you stick with PCI and AGP?

I think that would depend on whether there are real-life current
advantages to PCI express video cards, or whether the main board
will last long enough to take advantage of upcoming PCI express
cards.

Maybe that depends also on how well Windows XP handles upcoming PCI
express video cards and whatever other PCI express devices.

>2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated
>graphics, or would you choose a mobo with firewire and no
>integrated graphics?

If you mean vice versa, I prefer no integrated graphics, for gaming.
I might prefer neither FireWire or integrated graphics. If there are
smooth USB WebCams (at least 20 frames per second at 640 x 480),
then I probably don't really need FireWire.

Personally, I don't really like either of your choices.

Good luck and have fun.





--
Great question, in my opinion, the type homebuilding a system is all
about.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 11:42:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"BigJIm" <Jim10277@hotmail.com> wrote:

>it is simple, yes pci express is the way to go with a new system.

How is it simple?

Does the same speed system cost the same?

New generation devices tend to change/update quickly. Why not let
the masses do the beta testing.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 4, 2005 5:25:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Howard Kaikow" <kaikow@standards.com> wrote...
> If you were building a system today:
>
> 1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
> would you stick with PCI and AGP?

Makes no difference right now. While you MIGHT get higher performance from
PCI-Ex, I don't think current implementations are mature enough to worry about
it. Look for a MoBo that has everything you want.


> 2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
> would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?

Firewire yes. Integrated graphics no.

Why would you spend $$ on PCI-EX and then worry about integrated graphics?
February 5, 2005 3:26:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I think PCI x is here to stay. AGP was upgraded from 1x 2x 4x 8x and as most
of us know there is not much difference between 4x and 8x. The PCIx slot
will run 16x so I think it is worth the investment. The PCIx video cards are
cheaper than AGP of the same speed. You can hang on if you want to but the
boards are all going to be PCIX in the future. I like many change boards
ever couple of years but I hate to upgrade my video.
"John Doe" <jdoe@usenet.is.the.real.thing.com> wrote in message
news:Xns95F31B9A794DDwisdomfolly@151.164.30.44...
> "BigJIm" <Jim10277@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>it is simple, yes pci express is the way to go with a new system.
>
> How is it simple?
>
> Does the same speed system cost the same?
>
> New generation devices tend to change/update quickly. Why not let
> the masses do the beta testing.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 5, 2005 12:04:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

BigJIm wrote:

> I think PCI x is here to stay. AGP was upgraded from 1x 2x 4x 8x and
> as most of us know there is not much difference between 4x and 8x. The
> PCIx slot will run 16x so I think it is worth the investment. The PCIx
> video cards are cheaper than AGP of the same speed. You can hang on if
> you want to but the boards are all going to be PCIX in the future. I
> like many change boards ever couple of years but I hate to upgrade my
> video.

I agree, except that you use the wrong terminology. PCI-X slots are not
PCI Express slots. PCI Express is abbreviated PCI-e. PCI-X slots are
longer PCI type slots that run at frequencies other than the standard
PCI's 33 MHz. You'll tend to find them on server/workstation boards.
Here's a board with a single PCI-e 8X slot, one PCI slot, and several
different PCI-X slots:

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderi7520.html


--

Registered Linux user #378193
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 5, 2005 1:32:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Fri, 4 Feb 2005 00:24:28 -0500, "Howard Kaikow"
<kaikow@standards.com> wrote:

> If you were building a system today:
>
>1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP slot, or
>would you stick with PCI and AGP?
>
>2. Would you choose a mobo that has firewire, but no integrated graphics, or
>would you choose a mobo with firewire and no integrated graphics?

It might depend how long you intent to keep the machine. If you are
going to actively upgrade it over 2 years, then get another system
then, I'd say get a "legacy" ATX/PCI/AGP system now, and get a PCie/X
system next cycle if/when that format has matured.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 5, 2005 5:29:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ruel Smith <NoWay@NoWhere.com> wrote:
>Howard Kaikow wrote:
>
>> If you were building a system today:
>> 1. Would you insist on a mobo that had PCI Express, and no AGP
>> slot, or would you stick with PCI and AGP?
>
>PCI Express, no AGP. Why bother with legacy?

Because you can get a faster system for less money?

Apparently PCI express mainboards are scarce and relatively very
high-priced. Looks like the PCI express video cards are for users
who recently bought new systems and want to upgrade their video.
Makers probably skimp on the video card to help make up for it. It
looks like the classic hype & bad value upgrade deal.

I wouldn't spend that much on a beta mainboard. Let the masses test
them.









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governments claim to actively share that illegally gathered
intelligence.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 5, 2005 5:29:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

John Doe wrote:

>>PCI Express, no AGP. Why bother with legacy?
>
> Because you can get a faster system for less money?

In the short term, yes. However, they'll stop making new model AGP video
cards before long, and you'll be S.O.L.. If you get PCI-e, you'll be
assured that 2 years down the road, when nVidia or ATi introduce their
latest/greatest generations of video cards, they'll make one for your
board and you can upgrade.

> Apparently PCI express mainboards are scarce and relatively very
> high-priced. Looks like the PCI express video cards are for users
> who recently bought new systems and want to upgrade their video.
> Makers probably skimp on the video card to help make up for it. It
> looks like the classic hype & bad value upgrade deal.

Considering that the AGP version of the 6600GT cards are actually slower
than the PCI-e versions, I think your logic is backward.

> I wouldn't spend that much on a beta mainboard. Let the masses test
> them.

Maybe. However, Intel boards have probably seen at least one revision
since being introduced. Maybe not so for the AMD boards.

Personally, I'd still go PCI-e, and no AGP. Why buy something that'll be
a dinosaur in another year? Technology tends to leave standards behind,
and AGP is headed for the same fate as ISO cards.


--

Registered Linux user #378193
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 6, 2005 3:32:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<<Personally, I'd still go PCI-e, and no AGP. Why buy something that'll
be
a dinosaur in another year?>>

It'll be longer than a year. 8x AGP is still the high performance
standard for most applications, and PCI-e is doing very little with
current programs to make it worthwhile. In 2 years when pci-e is really
worth buying into, many of us will be buying new mobos anyway, and
we'll be able to get them for $100 or less.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 6, 2005 5:26:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1107678773.932217.59300@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> It'll be longer than a year. 8x AGP is still the high performance
> standard for most applications, and PCI-e is doing very little with
> current programs to make it worthwhile. In 2 years when pci-e is really
> worth buying into, many of us will be buying new mobos anyway, and
> we'll be able to get them for $100 or less.

One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the mobo, only
ADD drives/cards.

So, in those circumstances, it seems that buying the latest mobo is best.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 6, 2005 9:20:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<<One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the
mobo, only
ADD drives/cards. >>

Well then make sure you're okay with the idea of not being able to buy
into whatever technologies come into play in the 2 years after you buy
the mobo. AGP and PCI slots get faster, eventually PCI-e will evolve
too, and newer high end cards will only utilize the newer standard. The
mobo may be the one piece you can "sit on" the longest but it'll
eventually need replacment. The upside is, you'll probably be able to
get the mobo for $70 by the time you buy a new one.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
February 7, 2005 12:52:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Howard Kaikow" <kaikow@standards.com> wrote:
><OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message

>> It'll be longer than a year. 8x AGP is still the high performance
>> standard for most applications, and PCI-e is doing very little
>> with current programs to make it worthwhile.

I guess that is referring to DirectX (or other software) application
to the new hardware.

>> In 2 years when pci-e is really worth buying into, many of us
>> will be buying new mobos anyway, and we'll be able to get them
>> for $100 or less.
>
>One of my goals in building the system is to NOT ever change the
>mobo, only ADD drives/cards.
>So, in those circumstances, it seems that buying the latest mobo is
>best.

If new technology arrived on the scene completely developed, that
would be a good conclusion. But in fact the first versions of
software or hardware always have bugs. You probably know that about
software, but it's just as true about electronics hardware. Not only
bugs, but they are not fully developed. The first PCI express
mainboards will last shorter and perform poorer than subsequent,
more developed versions.

Before you buy, look for credible evaluations here on Usenet. If you
don't find any, then it hasn't been around long enough.

If it just feels good, go for it. In a couple of years, please
report back on how things went.

Whatever you do, have fun with it.





--
United States and British intelligence agencies admittedly break the
law while spying on each other. United States and British
governments claim to energetically share that gathered information.
!