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PCI x16/AGP & PCIe/old PCI

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Anonymous
June 18, 2005 7:00:31 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Hi all. I haven't been here for a while. I hope you all are well and
having fun. I know I can always come here for friendly knowledgeable
advice.

I have a 4 year old Dell Dimension 8100 P4 1.3 socket 423 400Mhx FSB
that I want to spruce up. I thought of PowerLeaping it to a 2.8Mhx
socket 428 with this: http://www.powerleap.com/PL-P4N.jsp . Doing this
will require a new Power Supply Unit, my pc has 4 IDE devices & 3 PCI
devices so the stock Dell PSU can't handle the extra power requirements
of the newer Northwood processor.

On second thought, being that I have to spend money on a new PSU I
figured I might as well spend a few bucks more and get a new socket 775
bundled motherboard like this:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...

or in my dreams:
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...

These newer motherboards have PCIe slots and, for video, PCI x16.
Stupid questions but, will old PCI cards fit and work in the newer PCIe
slots? Even dumber question, will AGP video card fit and work in the
PCI x16 slot? I kinda of doubt that an AGP card can work on the x16 bus
but I would like confirmation on this. I don't want to buy new PCI &
video card so if these don't work in the newer motherboards I may have
to consider a socket 478 motherboard or just do the easiest and
PowerLeap the old beast. Any thoughts on this from the hardware savvy
guys out there?

Regards;

John

More about : pci x16 agp pcie pci

Anonymous
June 18, 2005 7:00:32 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

see, now this is somebody that needs XP.

JJ, a couple words as to what you use the system for might help.

Rick


John John wrote:
> Hi all. I haven't been here for a while. I hope you all are well and
> having fun. I know I can always come here for friendly knowledgeable
> advice.
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell Dimension 8100 P4 1.3 socket 423 400Mhx FSB
> that I want to spruce up. I thought of PowerLeaping it to a 2.8Mhx
> socket 428 with this: http://www.powerleap.com/PL-P4N.jsp . Doing this
> will require a new Power Supply Unit, my pc has 4 IDE devices & 3 PCI
> devices so the stock Dell PSU can't handle the extra power requirements
> of the newer Northwood processor.
>
> On second thought, being that I have to spend money on a new PSU I
> figured I might as well spend a few bucks more and get a new socket 775
> bundled motherboard like this:
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>
>
> or in my dreams:
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>
>
> These newer motherboards have PCIe slots and, for video, PCI x16. Stupid
> questions but, will old PCI cards fit and work in the newer PCIe slots?
> Even dumber question, will AGP video card fit and work in the PCI x16
> slot? I kinda of doubt that an AGP card can work on the x16 bus but I
> would like confirmation on this. I don't want to buy new PCI & video
> card so if these don't work in the newer motherboards I may have to
> consider a socket 478 motherboard or just do the easiest and PowerLeap
> the old beast. Any thoughts on this from the hardware savvy guys out
> there?
>
> Regards;
>
> John
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 7:30:56 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Thanks Rick... I don't need XP I have W2K. The P4 1.3 crawls at a
snail's pace on databasing and engineering software. My nephew plays
games on it when he comes over but the games play fairly well as it is
now. It's more for my work related software that I want to give it a
boost. A new pc is not in the budget just right now. This is my home
pc and I just this week spent $600 on a new 19" LaCie CRT monitor. My
old trinitron bit the dust...

John

Rick T wrote:

> see, now this is somebody that needs XP.
>
> JJ, a couple words as to what you use the system for might help.
>
> Rick
>
>
> John John wrote:
>
>> Hi all. I haven't been here for a while. I hope you all are well and
>> having fun. I know I can always come here for friendly knowledgeable
>> advice.
>>
>> I have a 4 year old Dell Dimension 8100 P4 1.3 socket 423 400Mhx FSB
>> that I want to spruce up. I thought of PowerLeaping it to a 2.8Mhx
>> socket 428 with this: http://www.powerleap.com/PL-P4N.jsp . Doing
>> this will require a new Power Supply Unit, my pc has 4 IDE devices & 3
>> PCI devices so the stock Dell PSU can't handle the extra power
>> requirements of the newer Northwood processor.
>>
>> On second thought, being that I have to spend money on a new PSU I
>> figured I might as well spend a few bucks more and get a new socket
>> 775 bundled motherboard like this:
>> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>>
>>
>> or in my dreams:
>> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>>
>>
>> These newer motherboards have PCIe slots and, for video, PCI x16.
>> Stupid questions but, will old PCI cards fit and work in the newer
>> PCIe slots? Even dumber question, will AGP video card fit and work in
>> the PCI x16 slot? I kinda of doubt that an AGP card can work on the
>> x16 bus but I would like confirmation on this. I don't want to buy
>> new PCI & video card so if these don't work in the newer motherboards
>> I may have to consider a socket 478 motherboard or just do the easiest
>> and PowerLeap the old beast. Any thoughts on this from the hardware
>> savvy guys out there?
>>
>> Regards;
>>
>> John
Related resources
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 7:30:57 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

John John wrote:
> Thanks Rick... I don't need XP I have W2K. The P4 1.3 crawls at a
> snail's pace on databasing and engineering software. My nephew plays
> games on it when he comes over but the games play fairly well as it is
> now. It's more for my work related software that I want to give it a
> boost. A new pc is not in the budget just right now. This is my home
> pc and I just this week spent $600 on a new 19" LaCie CRT monitor. My
> old trinitron bit the dust...

Some things you can do to speed things up a bit:

- Drop unnecessary Services from Starting or Stop them if they're
already running

- upgrade the amount of memory to 1 GB

- partition planning

- defragmentation

- reorganize your RDBMS structure to be more efficient

- move the database into main memory

- take a long hard look at your Startup and ditch unnecessary stuff.


If you make the switch to PCIe, etc. I think you need all new cards.


Rick

>
> John
>
> Rick T wrote:
>
>> see, now this is somebody that needs XP.
>>
>> JJ, a couple words as to what you use the system for might help.
>>
>> Rick
>>
>>
>> John John wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all. I haven't been here for a while. I hope you all are well and
>>> having fun. I know I can always come here for friendly knowledgeable
>>> advice.
>>>
>>> I have a 4 year old Dell Dimension 8100 P4 1.3 socket 423 400Mhx FSB
>>> that I want to spruce up. I thought of PowerLeaping it to a 2.8Mhx
>>> socket 428 with this: http://www.powerleap.com/PL-P4N.jsp . Doing
>>> this will require a new Power Supply Unit, my pc has 4 IDE devices &
>>> 3 PCI devices so the stock Dell PSU can't handle the extra power
>>> requirements of the newer Northwood processor.
>>>
>>> On second thought, being that I have to spend money on a new PSU I
>>> figured I might as well spend a few bucks more and get a new socket
>>> 775 bundled motherboard like this:
>>> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>>>
>>>
>>> or in my dreams:
>>> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>>>
>>>
>>> These newer motherboards have PCIe slots and, for video, PCI x16.
>>> Stupid questions but, will old PCI cards fit and work in the newer
>>> PCIe slots? Even dumber question, will AGP video card fit and work
>>> in the PCI x16 slot? I kinda of doubt that an AGP card can work on
>>> the x16 bus but I would like confirmation on this. I don't want to
>>> buy new PCI & video card so if these don't work in the newer
>>> motherboards I may have to consider a socket 478 motherboard or just
>>> do the easiest and PowerLeap the old beast. Any thoughts on this
>>> from the hardware savvy guys out there?
>>>
>>> Regards;
>>>
>>> John
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 8:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Thanks Rick, see inline replies.

Rick T wrote:

> - Drop unnecessary Services from Starting or Stop them if they're
> already running

No problem there, I boot with 12 services only.

> - upgrade the amount of memory to 1 GB

Not feasible, it's that (in)famous RDRAM. I already have 512MB and
another 512 would cost somewhere around US$500! Probably more because I
have 4 128Mb sticks and would have to replace all of them with 256MB or
2 512Mb sticks. A ride on the space shuttle would be cheaper than the
new sticks!

> - partition planning

Done a long time ago, 2 hard drives on dedicated IDE controllers.
Pagefile on a dedicated controller.

> - defragmentation

Done regularly, usually doesn't change anything noticeably.

> - reorganize your RDBMS structure to be more efficient

I will look into that but the thought makes me think I like going to the
dentist all of a sudden.

> - move the database into main memory

I'm not sure it would handle it, working regularly with 200,000 to
300,000 records. I will investigate.

> - take a long hard look at your Startup and ditch unnecessary stuff.

Nothing there left to ditch.

> If you make the switch to PCIe, etc. I think you need all new cards.

I think you're right, the 775 mobo idea is quickly fading. I don't want
to replace my USR 56k modem or my Promise Ultra ATA controller, money
already spent which will have to be spent again for no gain. To boot a
good video card for engineering is $300 and more. Also, as you said in
your first reply, I'm not sure how well W2K will work with these newer
components and technology. Soon W2K will loose mainstream support. I
don't want to spend an additional 2 or 300 dollars for XP.

I think I will look at socket 478 mobo or just the simple PowerLeap upgrade.

Thanks for your advice.

John
Anonymous
June 18, 2005 9:23:40 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Neither PCI nor AGP cards will fit into a PCI-e slot. Only PCI-e cards
will. So if you buy a motherboard with a PCI-e x16 slot you'll also need to
buy a new video card.

--
Richard G. Harper [MVP Shell/User] rgharper@gmail.com
* PLEASE post all messages and replies in the newsgroups
* for the benefit of all. Private mail is usually not replied to.
* My website, such as it is ... http://rgharper.mvps.org/
* HELP us help YOU ... http://www.dts-l.org/goodpost.htm


"John John" <audetweld@nbnet.nb.ca> wrote in message
news:o fjJo9CdFHA.2556@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hi all. I haven't been here for a while. I hope you all are well and
> having fun. I know I can always come here for friendly knowledgeable
> advice.
>
> I have a 4 year old Dell Dimension 8100 P4 1.3 socket 423 400Mhx FSB that
> I want to spruce up. I thought of PowerLeaping it to a 2.8Mhx socket 428
> with this: http://www.powerleap.com/PL-P4N.jsp . Doing this will require
> a new Power Supply Unit, my pc has 4 IDE devices & 3 PCI devices so the
> stock Dell PSU can't handle the extra power requirements of the newer
> Northwood processor.
>
> On second thought, being that I have to spend money on a new PSU I figured
> I might as well spend a few bucks more and get a new socket 775 bundled
> motherboard like this:
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>
> or in my dreams:
> http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applications/SearchTools/item...
>
> These newer motherboards have PCIe slots and, for video, PCI x16. Stupid
> questions but, will old PCI cards fit and work in the newer PCIe slots?
> Even dumber question, will AGP video card fit and work in the PCI x16
> slot? I kinda of doubt that an AGP card can work on the x16 bus but I
> would like confirmation on this. I don't want to buy new PCI & video card
> so if these don't work in the newer motherboards I may have to consider a
> socket 478 motherboard or just do the easiest and PowerLeap the old beast.
> Any thoughts on this from the hardware savvy guys out there?
>
> Regards;
>
> John
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 2:25:55 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Thanks Richard. That pretty well confirms what I already had deduced, I
needed to hear it from those in the know. There ain't no way I'm
replacing all these cards and peripherals at this time, most are less
than 2 years old. I'll just buy a good quiet PSU and the PowerLeap
upgrade. Even if I bought a 478 mobo that silly RDRAM in my Dell
wouldn't even be salvageable. And them Dell cases aren't the best to
build on anyway...

I need a new PSU anyhow, the Dell one is driving me nuts! Less noise at
the end of Heathrow runway 3 than here!

John

Richard G. Harper wrote:

> Neither PCI nor AGP cards will fit into a PCI-e slot. Only PCI-e cards
> will. So if you buy a motherboard with a PCI-e x16 slot you'll also need to
> buy a new video card.
>
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 3:39:37 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

Thanks again Rick. Inline again.

Rick T wrote:

> Yeah, that can happen; "trick" is to make sure the computer is doing as
> little work as possible iteratively.

Could you elaborate or point me to website with further information on that.

> Easy way is to make a RAMDisk and copy from disk, and back at regular
> intervals; if it's a static database it's foolproof; if dynamic then you
> gotta hope for no power-outages or your latest changes go up in smoke.

Once again could you point me to good info on this. When I work at home
the database is pretty well static, even at work its not extremely
dynamic, its not like if we add thousands or even hundreds of new
records a day... or even a week. I work the database at home to clean
it up, tweak it up or just plainly use it for what its meant to be used.
Even if it blew up in my face its not the end of the world, the
database is at work. At work its not bad (speed wise) because we never
try to work or mine the whole database at once. At home I do stuff I
would never try at work!

John
Anonymous
June 19, 2005 5:40:24 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsme.general (More info?)

John John wrote:
> Thanks again Rick. Inline again.
>
> Rick T wrote:
>
>> Yeah, that can happen; "trick" is to make sure the computer is doing
>> as little work as possible iteratively.
>
>
> Could you elaborate or point me to website with further information on
> that.

Hmm, probly not, short of a course in database design and optimisation;
details would make my "how to properly partition your hard drive" posts
look like post-it notes. Sorry, my mouth runneth over. Feel free to
email me a copy of your DB structure if you like.

>
>> Easy way is to make a RAMDisk and copy from disk, and back at regular
>> intervals; if it's a static database it's foolproof; if dynamic then
>> you gotta hope for no power-outages or your latest changes go up in
>> smoke.
>
>
> Once again could you point me to good info on this. When I work at home
> the database is pretty well static, even at work its not extremely
> dynamic, its not like if we add thousands or even hundreds of new
> records a day... or even a week. I work the database at home to clean
> it up, tweak it up or just plainly use it for what its meant to be used.
> Even if it blew up in my face its not the end of the world, the
> database is at work. At work its not bad (speed wise) because we never
> try to work or mine the whole database at once. At home I do stuff I
> would never try at work!

Just pretty well what I said. Make a RAMDisk; copy the database to the
RAMDisk; point the program you access it through to the RAMDisk copy,
and if you make changes to the DB, update the hard-disk copy every once
in a while.


Rick

>
> John
!