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What's an OEM CD - WinXP?

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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 25, 2005 11:04:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a second
machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.

More about : oem winxp

March 26, 2005 12:48:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.

You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
.... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
make to that machine.

johns
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 4:21:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

johns wrote:

>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>
>
> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> make to that machine.
>
> johns
>
>

I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
Related resources
March 26, 2005 4:41:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

AMEN!!!!

"johns" <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in message
news:D 22t3e$qi0$1@news.fsr.net...
>
>> machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>> first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>
> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> make to that machine.
>
> johns
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 7:03:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:114a3bfnmvgea7@corp.supernews.com...
> johns wrote:
>
>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>>
>>
>> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
>> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
>> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
>> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
>> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
>> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
>> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
>> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
>> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
>> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
>> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
>> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
>> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
>> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
>> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
>> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
>> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
>> make to that machine.
>>
>> johns
>
> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 7:04:42 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

--
Into quilting? Know a quilter that needs a novel, inexpensive gift?

Please visit http://www.quigleyquotables.com/ for the latest in modern, easy
to quilt patterns.
"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:114a3bfnmvgea7@corp.supernews.com...
> johns wrote:
>
>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>>
>>
>> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
>> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
>> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
>> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
>> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
>> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
>> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
>> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
>> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
>> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
>> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
>> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
>> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
>> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
>> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
>> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
>> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
>> make to that machine.
>>
>> johns
>
> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
>


I think that a one time fee of $15, charged at the original point of sale
per computer, would be enough to allow Mr. Gates and Co. a fair profit. That
$15 should permit me, the end user, to update that one computer for the rest
of that computer's life.

That is to say, if Mr. Gates and Company introduce a new operating system
that will work on that computer, I should be permitted to update that
machine in perpetuity via the internet.

I am currently running seven computers in my household. I cannot and will
not pay $700 or so to license each machine's OS and then have to do the same
thing again once a new OS is introduced. An OS that I cannot do without.

My machines are used by the wife and I. Some are old machines, but they are
needed for specific tasks. I am disabled and cannot get around the house
easily. I have multiple machines in multiple locations for just this reason.

If you think this is unreasonable, consider the other devices that you use
in your daily life that are built around microprocessors. How would you feel
if you had to pay to have your automobile's OS updated every year or two?
Your microwave oven? Your entertainment center? See my point? It is time
that this constant dipping of Microsoft's hands into our pockets ended.

Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.

Ed Cregger

--
Into quilting? Know a quilter that needs a novel, inexpensive gift?

Please visit http://www.quigleyquotables.com/ for the latest in modern, easy
to quilt patterns.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 10:25:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
second
> machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.

If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.

I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card, I
will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
card in it? How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use it
for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
March 26, 2005 10:26:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.

Several "software" companies have tried to force user compliance
with buying new copies of the same software, if the machine is
updated or a new purchase is made. The Feds have told them
in court to "get bent". Bill Gates does not make laws. The User
has the right to maintain the value of his purchase.

johns
March 26, 2005 1:50:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

.... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> make to that machine.


um you are misinformed

you can put your copy a XP on ANY single machine you want. Change the
machine to something completely different, NO PROBLEM. One copy of XP on
ONE (1) machine.

"johns" <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in message
news:D 22t3e$qi0$1@news.fsr.net...
>
> > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>
> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> >
> johns
>
>
March 26, 2005 2:01:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
> bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
> non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card, I
> will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
> card in it?

buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to an end
soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine with XP
installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.

I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> > it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
> second
> > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.

you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the second.
Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its used to
give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a major
component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.


How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
> number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use it
> for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?

simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would be
some problems.

<petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1111850723.243067.117390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
> >>
> If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.
>
> >
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 3:24:16 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:
> I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
> > bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
> > non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound
card, I
> > will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
> > card in it?
>
> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to
an end
> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine
with XP
> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.

Well, it does seem silly, but it's not breaking the rules. This is
what I've read on an FAQ at :
http://www.ts2seminars.com/resources/files/PartnerInfo/...

"A non-peripheral hardware component is a hardware component that is
considered to be essential to running a computer system."

"Examples include components such as memory, internal devices and
drives, mice, keyboards, and power supplies. Examples of components
that are not considered essential are scanners, printers, cameras,
external modems and networking devices."

A would say that a sound card comes under 'internal devices', doesn't
it? It is very stupid though, the retail verion is £160 more than the
OEM, and I wouldn't even use the retail benefits such as support. I've
become too dependant on M$, I'm gonna have to make a change over, and
my this my last Windows purchase.

> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the
second.
> Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its
used to
> give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a
major
> component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.
>
>
> How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
> > number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use
it
> > for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
>
> simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would
be
> some problems.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 3:32:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:50:03 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
wrote:


>um you are misinformed
>
>you can put your copy a XP on ANY single machine you want. Change the
>machine to something completely different, NO PROBLEM. One copy of XP on
>ONE (1) machine.

With the retail version, yes. The OEM versions is supposed to stay
with the original PC it was purchased with, and I use "supposed" to
loosely because there is no way for MS to prove which PC you bought
the OEM version with so install it to any PC you like.
March 26, 2005 3:38:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

OEM to be kept with the 'hardware purchase'.
if you didn't buy a machine then how would you keep it 'with' it?

"Connected" <connected@somewhere.here> wrote in message
news:cjhb41dc5r20oo6nmh4vht5ldofru79lmu@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:50:03 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
> >um you are misinformed
> >
> >you can put your copy a XP on ANY single machine you want. Change the
> >machine to something completely different, NO PROBLEM. One copy of XP on
> >ONE (1) machine.
>
> With the retail version, yes. The OEM versions is supposed to stay
> with the original PC it was purchased with, and I use "supposed" to
> loosely because there is no way for MS to prove which PC you bought
> the OEM version with so install it to any PC you like.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 4:56:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

sdeyoreo@hotmail.com writes:

> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a second
> machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.

OEM copies of Windows are intended for companies that build and sell
computers. OEM stands for "original equipment manufacturer." The OEM
gets Windows for a lower price in exchange for taking responsibility for
all support of the OS. So if you install an OEM copy of Windows, it's a
legal copy, but it's unsupported (you're the OEM, so you are responsible
for your own support). You also don't get any fancy boxes or
documentation or other frills.

Normally OEM copies of Windows are sold only to PC vendors or to people
who are buying their own components to build their own PCs. OEM copies
are not sold by themselves off the shelf in computer stores.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 4:56:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 13:56:07 +0100, Mxsmanic <mxsmanic@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>sdeyoreo@hotmail.com writes:

>Normally OEM copies of Windows are sold only to PC vendors or to people
>who are buying their own components to build their own PCs. OEM copies
>are not sold by themselves off the shelf in computer stores.

Correct. But you can buy a cheap mouse and get an OEM copy of XP from
many stores.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 4:57:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

David Maynard writes:

> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.

Quite so, but unless the license is written very strangely, you're
entitled to use that software on the machine for which you licensed it
no matter what hardware changes you make to the machine. Thus,
Microsoft has a legal obligation to activate the software for you, no
matter what it takes, if you make a hardware change.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 7:07:53 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

If you buy an AUTHENTICLY LEGAL OEM CD of XP then, yes it will permit you to
get all Updates legally from Microsoft. The reason why it is cheaper than
the Retail version of the XP CD is that Microsoft does NOT supply any free
Telephone Support for installations using the OEM version.

--
DaveW



<sdeyoreo@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:31d94194isfioa31h71gr19peem528eeqp@4ax.com...
>I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a second
> machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 8:33:43 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:38:13 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
wrote:

>OEM to be kept with the 'hardware purchase'.
> if you didn't buy a machine then how would you keep it 'with' it?

Well, that's just it. OEM copies are not supposed to be sold with a
*piece* of hardware. They are supposed to be sold with a complete PC.
It's a grey area.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 10:57:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 16:07:53 -0800, "DaveW" <none@zero.org> wrote:

>If you buy an AUTHENTICLY LEGAL OEM CD of XP then, yes it will permit you to
>get all Updates legally from Microsoft. The reason why it is cheaper than
>the Retail version of the XP CD is that Microsoft does NOT supply any free
>Telephone Support for installations using the OEM version.
Thanks, that's all I wanted to know.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 26, 2005 10:58:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Cheez, ask a simple question !
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:04:03 -0500, sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:

>I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
>it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a second
>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
March 27, 2005 1:29:04 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"johns" <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in message
news:D 22t3e$qi0$1@news.fsr.net...
>
> > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>
> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.

I use Ghost to make restore cd's for the pcs I work on......


> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> make to that machine.
>
> johns
>
>
March 27, 2005 1:41:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

> um you are misinformed

No I'm not. Bills Law says the license is to one mobo
only. Mobo fails .. new license. Federal law says,
you but it, you have the right to maintain its value.

johns
March 27, 2005 1:42:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

That is right. You could just buy a mouse.

johns
March 27, 2005 1:45:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

What "major component" are you refering to? I have changed several
components( hdd, graphics cards, etc) and didnt have to call MS, I hardly
think major online retailers are'skirting the rules".............

"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
news:lki1e.14120$ZA.10872@fe07.lga...
> I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
> > bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
> > non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card, I
> > will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
> > card in it?
>
> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to an
end
> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine with
XP
> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.
>
> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> > > it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
> > second
> > > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> > > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>
> you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the
second.
> Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its used
to
> give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a major
> component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.
>
>
> How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
> > number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use it
> > for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
>
> simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would be
> some problems.
>
> <petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1111850723.243067.117390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
> > >>
> > If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.
> >
> > >
>
>
March 27, 2005 1:45:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>>>What "major component" are you refering to?

Motherboard is the most common. But graphic cards have triggered the need
to web/call.

>>>I hardly think major online retailers are'skirting the rules

your kidding right?

"doS" <kobo65@hotREMOVETHISmail.com> wrote in message
news:77p1e.17548$sY2.13519@fe04.lga...
> I have changed several
> components( hdd, graphics cards, etc) and didnt have to call MS,
> ".............
>
> "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
> news:lki1e.14120$ZA.10872@fe07.lga...
>> I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
>> > bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
>> > non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card, I
>> > will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
>> > card in it?
>>
>> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to an
> end
>> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine with
> XP
>> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.
>>
>> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
>> > > it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
>> > second
>> > > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>> > > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>>
>> you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the
> second.
>> Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its used
> to
>> give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a major
>> component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.
>>
>>
>> How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
>> > number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use it
>> > for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
>>
>> simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would be
>> some problems.
>>
>> <petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> news:1111850723.243067.117390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >
>> > sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
>> > >>
>> > If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.
>> >
>> > >
>>
>>
>
>
March 27, 2005 3:25:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

No, I see many online retailers selling them with hardware...I know ebay and
MS made me cancel an auction for WinME cd once I had up, says it was to
prevent "piracy", I had an unreg legit ME cd I didn't want..so I assume they
would stop the retailers...

"JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
news:kkq1e.17568$uL3.665@fe04.lga...
> >>>What "major component" are you refering to?
>
> Motherboard is the most common. But graphic cards have triggered the need
> to web/call.
>
> >>>I hardly think major online retailers are'skirting the rules
>
> your kidding right?
>
> "doS" <kobo65@hotREMOVETHISmail.com> wrote in message
> news:77p1e.17548$sY2.13519@fe04.lga...
> > I have changed several
> > components( hdd, graphics cards, etc) and didnt have to call MS,
> > ".............
> >
> > "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
> > news:lki1e.14120$ZA.10872@fe07.lga...
> >> I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
> >> > bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
> >> > non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card,
I
> >> > will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
> >> > card in it?
> >>
> >> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to
an
> > end
> >> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine
with
> > XP
> >> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.
> >>
> >> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
> >> > > it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
> >> > second
> >> > > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> >> > > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
> >>
> >> you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the
> > second.
> >> Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its
used
> > to
> >> give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a
major
> >> component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.
> >>
> >>
> >> How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
> >> > number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use it
> >> > for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
> >>
> >> simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would
be
> >> some problems.
> >>
> >> <petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1111850723.243067.117390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >> >
> >> > sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
> >> > >>
> >> > If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.
> >> >
> >> > >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
March 27, 2005 3:25:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

OIC so with that group involved it MUST be on the up and up. They are using
the wordage to thier advantage currently. sort of like what's the
definition of 'is' . It will change if it proves to be a source of loss
revenues.

"doS" <kobo65@hotREMOVETHISmail.com> wrote in message
news:zAq1e.10223$Wz2.1367@fe06.lga...
> No, I see many online retailers selling them with hardware...I know ebay
> and
> MS made me cancel an auction for WinME cd once I had up, says it was to
> prevent "piracy", I had an unreg legit ME cd I didn't want..so I assume
> they
> would stop the retailers...
>
> "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
> news:kkq1e.17568$uL3.665@fe04.lga...
>> >>>What "major component" are you refering to?
>>
>> Motherboard is the most common. But graphic cards have triggered the
>> need
>> to web/call.
>>
>> >>>I hardly think major online retailers are'skirting the rules
>>
>> your kidding right?
>>
>> "doS" <kobo65@hotREMOVETHISmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:77p1e.17548$sY2.13519@fe04.lga...
>> > I have changed several
>> > components( hdd, graphics cards, etc) and didnt have to call MS,
>> > ".............
>> >
>> > "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net> wrote in message
>> > news:lki1e.14120$ZA.10872@fe07.lga...
>> >> I'm thinking about buying WinXP OEM (probably Professional), and am a
>> >> > bit unsure about the current requirements etc. You need to buy a
>> >> > non-peripheral piece of hardware with it. So if I get a sound card,
> I
>> >> > will be able to use the software on the machine which has the sound
>> >> > card in it?
>> >>
>> >> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to
> an
>> > end
>> >> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine
> with
>> > XP
>> >> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.
>> >>
>> >> I know what it is, but do they have a registration number or code so
>> >> > > it's legal and I can get updates from MicroSoft? I'm building a
>> >> > second
>> >> > > machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>> >> > > first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>> >>
>> >> you will be found out as the first Hardware code will not match the
>> > second.
>> >> Each time a configuration is examined and a 'code' is developed, its
> used
>> > to
>> >> give you a unique reg number. 1 copy for 1 machine. If you change a
> major
>> >> component the 'code' will change and you will need a new reg number.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> How does the activation work, is there a limit to the
>> >> > number of activations or something? After buying it I may not use
>> >> > it
>> >> > for a few months, it won't expire or anything will it?
>> >>
>> >> simply NO - I suppose if your calling in 25 times a month there would
> be
>> >> some problems.
>> >>
>> >> <petermcmillan_uk@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:1111850723.243067.117390@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>> >> >
>> >> > sdeyoreo@hotmail.com wrote:
>> >> > >>
>> >> > If you read the licience you will see that it's not transferable.
>> >> >
>> >> > >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 3:55:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Connected writes:

> Correct. But you can buy a cheap mouse and get an OEM copy of XP from
> many stores.

So I've noticed. I have no problem with that, although I suppose
Microsoft might.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
March 27, 2005 3:55:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

No microsoft doesn't have a problem with that. Online sellers such as
newegg sell these.

http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.asp?descripti...

"Mxsmanic" <mxsmanic@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:81qb41525v8171gk5l426ig7orsvfrh18t@4ax.com...
> Connected writes:
>
> > Correct. But you can buy a cheap mouse and get an OEM copy of XP from
> > many stores.
>
> So I've noticed. I have no problem with that, although I suppose
> Microsoft might.
>
> --
> Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 3:56:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD writes:

> buy it -use it, the 'buy a soundcard get an OEM version' will come to an end
> soon. It's a way of selling XP as if you were buying a whole machine with XP
> installed. Its skirting the rules and wont go on forever.

Why not? Better to sell a copy at OEM prices than to not sell anything
at all.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
March 27, 2005 11:39:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

doS wrote:
> What "major component" are you refering to? I have changed several
> components( hdd, graphics cards, etc) and didnt have to call MS, I hardly
> think major online retailers are'skirting the rules".............
>

Not just component but also the timing of the change or how soon it got
reinstalled. Read somewhere the timing window was 120 days. Over that
if the hardware stayed the same they assumed you were fixing a buggy
installation. Couple years ago I had to reinstall XP on my daughter's
machine less than 2 months after activation. Wound up having to explain
to someone why I was doing that. (motherboard was faulty) Although it
was approved the very fact I had to make a "mother may I" call didn't
sit well with me.
March 27, 2005 11:46:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

ropeyarn@gmail.com wrote:

>
> I'm experimenting with Linux now. Except for the part where the OS
> actually plays nicely with hardware, it's not bad....

What distributions have you tried?
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 12:12:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Jim wrote:
> ropeyarn@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>
>> I'm experimenting with Linux now. Except for the part where the OS
>> actually plays nicely with hardware, it's not bad....
>
>
> What distributions have you tried?


Thread drift follows....but still homebuilt PC hardware related:-)

Only one so far: Mandrake 10.1.

This was a pig in a poke selection based on some research and some input
from members of a regional computer users mailing group that it was
relatively user freindy, especially for the chronic windows offender.

I had been using Unix at work for many users, but in an envrionment that
was both locked down *and* highly supported; I simply haven't had to get
very smart about its details.

Bottom line on my one-month experience with Mandrake:

-Install was flawless. Less than an hour after introducing my 5-year old
800 MHZ PIII to the software, I had a perfectly functional dual-boot
machine running Windows XP Home and Mandrake. This was probably made
much easier by the fact that I had an empty 2nd hard drive available for
the Linux install).

-It won't recognize my wireless USB 802.11g adapter. The adapter LEDs
indicate it is connected to network after going through an inscrutable
driver install, but the OS hasn't gotten the message yet:-). My router
is on antoher floor and on the opposite end of the house, and my S/O
frouns on visible runs of CAT 5 cable through the living room, up the
stairs and down the hall....

-It won't run a PCI sound card yet. The OS so far is recognizing only
the motherboard's integrated sound. I've been too lazy to replug the
speaker connection...and in any case, certainly won't do so every time I
sit down at the machine:-)

This is essentially my lab machine, so I'm not committed to Mandrake for
the long term. A sympathetic freind from work told me that the current
version of Suse ran all of his state of the art hardware immediately.

Using Linux would be fun if I didn't actually have other things to do in
my life:-)

Obviously there is some very basic troubleshooting I haven't got around
to yet. I could live without sound, but sure would like to get the
Mandrake online!
March 27, 2005 3:48:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

ropeyarn@gmail.com wrote:
>> What distributions have you tried?
>
>
>
> Thread drift follows....but still homebuilt PC hardware related:-)
>
> Only one so far: Mandrake 10.1.
>

That's my primary distro. Before going crazy configure the URPMI then
use that to get updates installed.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 5:16:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Connected" <connected@somewhere.here> wrote in message
news:cjhb41dc5r20oo6nmh4vht5ldofru79lmu@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 10:50:03 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>um you are misinformed
>>
>>you can put your copy a XP on ANY single machine you want. Change the
>>machine to something completely different, NO PROBLEM. One copy of XP on
>>ONE (1) machine.
>
> With the retail version, yes. The OEM versions is supposed to stay
> with the original PC it was purchased with, and I use "supposed" to
> loosely because there is no way for MS to prove which PC you bought
> the OEM version with so install it to any PC you like.

The eula on the OEM version reads exactly like the retail version. This is
the "packaged" OEM copies like you can get with hardware purchases. One copy
for one machine. I recently had a laptop that I had installed an OEM version
of XP Pro on tank on me and later installed the OEM version on a desktop.
The XP Pro install went great and it activated online without even a phone
call. Distributor versions of the OS are a different matter. Usually, they
will only install on the one machine. In my experience, the OEM versions of
XP act just like the retail versions. If I make large changes within 120
days or so, it might take a short phone call at most to activate. I have
only had experience with the XP Pro versions, but it should be the same with
Home.


Ed
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 5:22:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"johns" <johns123xxx@xxxmoscow.com> wrote in message
news:D 25h1m$2c10$1@news.fsr.net...
>
>> um you are misinformed
>
> No I'm not. Bills Law says the license is to one mobo
> only. Mobo fails .. new license. Federal law says,
> you but it, you have the right to maintain its value.
>
> johns
>
The Eula doesn't say that. It only says you can install it on only one
machine at a time. Just like a retail version. I have changed several MBs
with this one OEM copy and most activated on line, and I think I have had to
call to activate twice. I told them I had a MB fail and they just went ahead
and activated it. I don't think there is much difference between OEM and
Retail when it comes to activation. At least I haven't seen any.

Ed
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 7:44:24 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ed Cregger wrote:

--------------------------------
>> johns wrote:
>>
>
>>>>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>>>>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
>>>> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
>>>> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
>>>> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
>>>> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
>>>> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
>>>> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
>>>> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
>>>> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
>>>> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
>>>> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
>>>> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
>>>> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
>>>> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
>>>> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
>>>> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
>>>> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
>>>> make to that machine.
>>>>
>>>> johns
>
>>
>> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
>> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
>> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
>>
--------------------------

In the first place let me point out that I did not intend to get into an
argument about what licensing arrangements 'should be'. The point was
simply that what you "buy" is not the software but a use license.

> I think that a one time fee of $15, charged at the original point of sale
> per computer, would be enough to allow Mr. Gates and Co. a fair profit.

Well, I feel that a few grand should be 'enough' for someone to stand on a
stage and sing a couple of songs but Barbra Streisand, who is certainly
'rich enough', never listened to me either and since the market bears it
she made considerably more per performance.

Which is the point. Value is determined by the market and not what one
'feels' the price 'should be'.

> That $15 should permit me, the end user, to update that one computer for
> the rest of that computer's life.

The O.S. creator didn't design, make, nor sell the computer to you and has
no obligation, past their representations of the O.S.'s capabilities, as to
it's "useful life."

> That is to say, if Mr. Gates and Company introduce a new operating system
> that will work on that computer, I should be permitted to update that
> machine in perpetuity via the internet.

Other that you feeling it would be wonderful to get a new O.S. for free, on
what do you base this 'obligation' to provide it?

> I am currently running seven computers in my household. I cannot and will
> not pay $700 or so to license each machine's OS and then have to do the
> same thing again once a new OS is introduced.

It's a free market. Don't but it.

> An OS that I cannot do
> without.

An O.S. doesn't suddenly stop working just because a new O.S. comes out so
why is it that you "cannot do without," say, XP?

> My machines are used by the wife and I. Some are old machines, but they
> are needed for specific tasks. I am disabled and cannot get around the
> house easily. I have multiple machines in multiple locations for just
> this reason.

I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your disability but what caused the
computers to suddenly stop working when a new O.S. came out?

> If you think this is unreasonable, consider the other devices that you
> use in your daily life that are built around microprocessors. How would
> you feel if you had to pay to have your automobile's OS updated every
> year or two? Your microwave oven? Your entertainment center? See my
> point?

No, I don't. No one has offered me a 'free horsepower upgrade' to my car,
nor a 'free temperature sensor upgrade' to my microwave, nor a 'free remote
control upgrade' to my ancient stereo receiver, nor a 'free HDTV upgrade'
to my television set even though I can go and buy new ones with those
features. Every one of those devices remains as bought and are not
'updated' for 'free' when a newer, more feature rich, model hits the market.

> It is time that this constant dipping of Microsoft's hands into
> our pockets ended.

> Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.

The value of a product isn't set by whether the seller is 'richer' than the
buyer nor whether someone thinks they 'have enough'. It's set by the value
of the product in the market.

Ed Cregger

--
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 7:47:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Mxsmanic wrote:

> David Maynard writes:
>
>
>>I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
>>you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
>>software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
>
>
> Quite so, but unless the license is written very strangely, you're
> entitled to use that software on the machine for which you licensed it
> no matter what hardware changes you make to the machine. Thus,
> Microsoft has a legal obligation to activate the software for you, no
> matter what it takes, if you make a hardware change.
>

I never said otherwise, although what the definition of "the machine" is
might interesting to ponder.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 10:15:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 13:16:21 GMT, "Ed Medlin" <ed@edmedlin.com> wrote:

>
>"Connected" <connected@somewhere.here> wrote in message
>news:cjhb41dc5r20oo6nmh4vht5ldofru79lmu@4ax.com...

>The eula on the OEM version reads exactly like the retail version. This is
>the "packaged" OEM copies like you can get with hardware purchases. One copy
>for one machine. I recently had a laptop that I had installed an OEM version
>of XP Pro on tank on me and later installed the OEM version on a desktop.
>The XP Pro install went great and it activated online without even a phone
>call. Distributor versions of the OS are a different matter. Usually, they
>will only install on the one machine. In my experience, the OEM versions of
>XP act just like the retail versions. If I make large changes within 120
>days or so, it might take a short phone call at most to activate. I have
>only had experience with the XP Pro versions, but it should be the same with
>Home.
>
>
>Ed
>

OK, I stand corrected. It's just that I have a retail version of XP
Home and I have a friend with an OEM version of XP Home and it seems
like he gets flagged to call Microsft every time he changes a piece of
hardware and I don't.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 10:26:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Connected wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:38:13 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
> wrote:
>
>
>>OEM to be kept with the 'hardware purchase'.
>>if you didn't buy a machine then how would you keep it 'with' it?
>
>
> Well, that's just it. OEM copies are not supposed to be sold with a
> *piece* of hardware. They are supposed to be sold with a complete PC.
> It's a grey area.
>

That isn't what the OEM license agreement says.

I'm not a lawyer, and maybe there is more than one type of OEM agreement,
but the "MICROSOFT OEM SYSTEM BUILDER LICENSE" states:

http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/sbLicense2004/Englis...

"4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
4.1 If the individual software license is a desktop operating system
(including Windows XP Media Center Edition), we grant you a nonexclusive
right to distribute individual software licenses; provided that each one is
distributed with either (a) a fully assembled computer system or (b) a
nonperipheral computer hardware component. A “fully assembled computer
system” means a computer system consisting of at least a central processing
unit, a motherboard, a hard drive, a power supply, and a case. A
“nonperipheral computer hardware component” means a component that will be
an integral part of the fully assembled computer system on which
the individual software license will be installed."

Part b is specifically not, as you presume, a "complete PC."

My understanding, which I think is accurate, is that the license gets
attached to the "system" the "nonperipheral computer hardware component"
and the (provided in conjunction with) "desktop operating system" gets
installed on.

Also note, that is the builder's distribution agreement and not the O.S.
end user license agreement. A full retail license is transferable but an
OEM license is not. It's 'married' to the 'system' it was installed on
(which is the first answer to the above question "if you didn't buy a
machine then how would you keep it 'with' it?").

A "system" can be upgraded, with, say, more memory, and still be the same
"system." The motherboard can even be replaced if it's a warranty
replacement, you're 'repairing' the 'system', but the OEM license is tied
to the motherboard; that is the identifying mark of the 'system' it's
installed on (and the second answer to the above question).


As for product activation, it isn't so simple a 'change this' and the alarm
bells go off. For a more detailed description (for retail, which I imagine
goes for OEM) go here
http://download.microsoft.com/download/2/1/6/21654b16-6...

Some items of note:

OEM systems that are installed by the OEM using the SLP pre-activation
method check the motherboard BIOS to see if it is 'theirs' (and valid for
the installed XP). If that passes then XP makes no additional checks and
you can change/upgrade anything without requiring activation.

Otherwise...

These are the hardware items XP checks:

1 Display Adapter
2 SCSI Adapter
3 IDE Adapter
4 Network Adapter MAC Address
5 RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc)
6 Processor Type
7 Processor Serial Number
8 Hard Drive Device
9 Hard Drive Volume Serial Number
10 CD–ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM

You can change anything not in the list with no effect on activation.

The requirements for dockable system is different and Microsoft adds
special weight to NICs.

For a 'normal', I.E. non dock, system, if the network adapter is *not*
different then 6 changed items constitutes "substantially different." I.E.
to use Microsoft's example in the above referenced document-------------

Scenario A:
PC One has the full assortment of hardware components listed in Table 1
above. User swaps the motherboard and CPU chip for an upgraded one, swaps
the video adapter, adds a second hard drive for additional storage, doubles
the amount of RAM, and swaps the CD ROM drive for a faster one.

Result: Reactivation is NOT required.
----------------------------------------------

If the NIC is changed, or added to a system that previously did not have
one, then 4 additional changes (instead of 6 total) constitutes
"substantially different."

Dockable systems up the numbers to 9 and 7.

Changing the same thing multiple times, like video adapter A to B, then to
C, counts as 1 change.

Reinstalling XP on the same or similar hardware, and a subsequent
reactivation, can be accomplished an infinite number of times.

Finally, the Microsoft activation clearinghouse system will automatically
allow activation to occur over the Internet four times in one year on
substantially different hardware.

----

The above document is dated August 2001, so there may have been some
changes, but I think the basics remain the same.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 27, 2005 10:31:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:

>>>>What "major component" are you refering to?
>
>
> Motherboard is the most common. But graphic cards have triggered the need
> to web/call.

According to Microsoft's documentation on how activation works the only way
adding a graphics card would cause one is if they had already changed 4 or
5 other things before the graphics card thereby causing it to be the 'last
straw', so to speak.


>>>>I hardly think major online retailers are'skirting the rules
>
>
> your kidding right?
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 12:56:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:114ea9p3gtda8fd@corp.supernews.com...
> Ed Cregger wrote:
>
> --------------------------------
> >> johns wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>>>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> >>>>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
> >>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> >>>> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> >>>> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> >>>> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> >>>> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
> >>>> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> >>>> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> >>>> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> >>>> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> >>>> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> >>>> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> >>>> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> >>>> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> >>>> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> >>>> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> >>>> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> >>>> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> >>>> make to that machine.
> >>>>
> >>>> johns
> >
> >>
> >> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
> >> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
> >> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
> >>
> --------------------------
>
> In the first place let me point out that I did not intend to get into an
> argument about what licensing arrangements 'should be'. The point was
> simply that what you "buy" is not the software but a use license.
>
> > I think that a one time fee of $15, charged at the original point of
> > sale
> > per computer, would be enough to allow Mr. Gates and Co. a fair profit.
>
> Well, I feel that a few grand should be 'enough' for someone to stand on a
> stage and sing a couple of songs but Barbra Streisand, who is certainly
> 'rich enough', never listened to me either and since the market bears it
> she made considerably more per performance.
>
> Which is the point. Value is determined by the market and not what one
> 'feels' the price 'should be'.
>
> > That $15 should permit me, the end user, to update that one computer for
> > the rest of that computer's life.
>
> The O.S. creator didn't design, make, nor sell the computer to you and has
> no obligation, past their representations of the O.S.'s capabilities, as
> to it's "useful life."
>
> > That is to say, if Mr. Gates and Company introduce a new operating
> > system
> > that will work on that computer, I should be permitted to update that
> > machine in perpetuity via the internet.
>
> Other that you feeling it would be wonderful to get a new O.S. for free,
> on what do you base this 'obligation' to provide it?
>
> > I am currently running seven computers in my household. I cannot and
> > will
> > not pay $700 or so to license each machine's OS and then have to do the
> > same thing again once a new OS is introduced.
>
> It's a free market. Don't but it.
>
> > An OS that I cannot do
> > without.
>
> An O.S. doesn't suddenly stop working just because a new O.S. comes out so
> why is it that you "cannot do without," say, XP?
>
> > My machines are used by the wife and I. Some are old machines, but they
> > are needed for specific tasks. I am disabled and cannot get around the
> > house easily. I have multiple machines in multiple locations for just
> > this reason.
>
> I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your disability but what caused the
> computers to suddenly stop working when a new O.S. came out?
>
> > If you think this is unreasonable, consider the other devices that you
> > use in your daily life that are built around microprocessors. How would
> > you feel if you had to pay to have your automobile's OS updated every
> > year or two? Your microwave oven? Your entertainment center? See my
> > point?
>
> No, I don't. No one has offered me a 'free horsepower upgrade' to my car,
> nor a 'free temperature sensor upgrade' to my microwave, nor a 'free
> remote control upgrade' to my ancient stereo receiver, nor a 'free HDTV
> upgrade' to my television set even though I can go and buy new ones with
> those features. Every one of those devices remains as bought and are not
> 'updated' for 'free' when a newer, more feature rich, model hits the
> market.
>
> > It is time that this constant dipping of Microsoft's hands into
> > our pockets ended.
>
> > Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.
>
> The value of a product isn't set by whether the seller is 'richer' than
> the buyer nor whether someone thinks they 'have enough'. It's set by the
> value of the product in the market.
>
> Ed Cregger
>
> --
>


Ah, but Microsoft and company are in an entirely different market position
than Ms. Streisand, David.

I am a capitalist myself, but I do care about "the common good".

Microsoft, whether they intended to do so or not, has become a monopoly.
That puts an entirely different spin on the subject.

Ms. Streisand has lots of competition. Microsoft has none, in the most
realistic sense of the word.

I am not an ideolog. That is, I do not lean toward capitalism to the nth
degree, society be damned. My friends will tell you that I am not a left
winger by any stretch of the imagination. What I am saying is that I do
believe in limits.

I admire Mr. Gates and what he has accomplished. Granted, much of it was by
sheer luck, but never the less, he has accomplished a terrific amount and
has generally been good for the economy and our country.

Remember the old DOS days? The days when he made the majority of his vast
fortune? Everyone copied DOS OS disks and exchanged them. Yet, Bill still
made billions, as did his stockholders. His, and other companies, efforts at
preventing piracy are too aggressive, creating vast inconvenience for their
customers. But where else can the customers go for a compatible OS?
Microsoft changed what was once a pleasant experience into one of ever
increasing aggravation (maintaining a PC).

Regarding your last paragraph. The value of the product is what "We The
People" say it is. With the stroke of a pen, President Bush, or more likely
a democratic president, can decide that Microsoft's trade practices (piracy
countermeasures/exhorbitant pricing) are not fair, just or good for the
people. Poof! Mr. Gates wishes suddenly account for nothing.

Of course, the powers-that-be would use different, obscure wording to
accomplish the deed, but it would be accomplished. Just look around, it
happens every day. Saddam who?

Ed Cregger
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 8:07:54 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

David Maynard writes:

> The above document is dated August 2001, so there may have been some
> changes, but I think the basics remain the same.

It sounds like one long promotion for alternative operating systems.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 9:16:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Ed Cregger wrote:

> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:114ea9p3gtda8fd@corp.supernews.com...
>
>>Ed Cregger wrote:
>>
>>--------------------------------
>>
>>>>johns wrote:
>>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
>>>>>>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
>>>>>>machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
>>>>>>then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
>>>>>>goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
>>>>>>requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
>>>>>>I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
>>>>>>fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
>>>>>>they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
>>>>>>start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
>>>>>>blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
>>>>>>the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
>>>>>>and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
>>>>>>a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
>>>>>>law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
>>>>>>... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
>>>>>>WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
>>>>>>single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
>>>>>>make to that machine.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>johns
>>>
>>>>I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
>>>>you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
>>>>software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
>>>>
>>
>>--------------------------
>>
>>In the first place let me point out that I did not intend to get into an
>>argument about what licensing arrangements 'should be'. The point was
>>simply that what you "buy" is not the software but a use license.
>>
>>
>>>I think that a one time fee of $15, charged at the original point of
>>>sale
>>>per computer, would be enough to allow Mr. Gates and Co. a fair profit.
>>
>>Well, I feel that a few grand should be 'enough' for someone to stand on a
>>stage and sing a couple of songs but Barbra Streisand, who is certainly
>>'rich enough', never listened to me either and since the market bears it
>>she made considerably more per performance.
>>
>>Which is the point. Value is determined by the market and not what one
>>'feels' the price 'should be'.
>>
>>
>>>That $15 should permit me, the end user, to update that one computer for
>>>the rest of that computer's life.
>>
>>The O.S. creator didn't design, make, nor sell the computer to you and has
>>no obligation, past their representations of the O.S.'s capabilities, as
>>to it's "useful life."
>>
>>
>>>That is to say, if Mr. Gates and Company introduce a new operating
>>>system
>>>that will work on that computer, I should be permitted to update that
>>>machine in perpetuity via the internet.
>>
>>Other that you feeling it would be wonderful to get a new O.S. for free,
>>on what do you base this 'obligation' to provide it?
>>
>>
>>>I am currently running seven computers in my household. I cannot and
>>>will
>>>not pay $700 or so to license each machine's OS and then have to do the
>>>same thing again once a new OS is introduced.
>>
>>It's a free market. Don't but it.
>>
>>
>>>An OS that I cannot do
>>>without.
>>
>>An O.S. doesn't suddenly stop working just because a new O.S. comes out so
>>why is it that you "cannot do without," say, XP?
>>
>>
>>>My machines are used by the wife and I. Some are old machines, but they
>>>are needed for specific tasks. I am disabled and cannot get around the
>>>house easily. I have multiple machines in multiple locations for just
>>>this reason.
>>
>>I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your disability but what caused the
>>computers to suddenly stop working when a new O.S. came out?
>>
>>
>>>If you think this is unreasonable, consider the other devices that you
>>>use in your daily life that are built around microprocessors. How would
>>>you feel if you had to pay to have your automobile's OS updated every
>>>year or two? Your microwave oven? Your entertainment center? See my
>>>point?
>>
>>No, I don't. No one has offered me a 'free horsepower upgrade' to my car,
>>nor a 'free temperature sensor upgrade' to my microwave, nor a 'free
>>remote control upgrade' to my ancient stereo receiver, nor a 'free HDTV
>>upgrade' to my television set even though I can go and buy new ones with
>>those features. Every one of those devices remains as bought and are not
>>'updated' for 'free' when a newer, more feature rich, model hits the
>>market.
>>
>>
>>>It is time that this constant dipping of Microsoft's hands into
>>>our pockets ended.
>>
>>>Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.
>>
>>The value of a product isn't set by whether the seller is 'richer' than
>>the buyer nor whether someone thinks they 'have enough'. It's set by the
>>value of the product in the market.
>>
>>Ed Cregger
>>
>>--
>>
>
>
>
> Ah, but Microsoft and company are in an entirely different market position
> than Ms. Streisand, David.

That's a completely different matter than the issue you raised and to which
the analogy was responding: that 'x dollars' was 'enough'. And if 'x
dollars' is 'enough' for A then it's 'enough' for B regardless of the
'market position'.

But that's not the way markets work and once "the powers that be" start
dictating some contrived notion of what's 'enough' you can kiss freedom,
the economy, and progress good-bye.


> I am a capitalist myself, but I do care about "the common good".

All indications are that the two go hand in hand.

> Microsoft, whether they intended to do so or not, has become a monopoly.
> That puts an entirely different spin on the subject.
>
> Ms. Streisand has lots of competition. Microsoft has none, in the most
> realistic sense of the word.

The fallacy there is that you only consider a 'Microsoft O.S.' to be
competition for Microsoft and that's as if I complained there are no
sources for "Barba Streisand songs" other than Barbra Streisand so she
enjoys a monopoly over them.

Your argument doesn't hold or, rather, it holds for virtually anything when
you make the constraint that only something 'identical', or nearly
identical, qualifies as competition. "Your honor, Ford has no competition
because none of them make Fords."

At the very least, you have a bazzilion versions of Linux, a large
percentage of which are essentially free.


> I am not an ideolog. That is, I do not lean toward capitalism to the nth
> degree, society be damned. My friends will tell you that I am not a left
> winger by any stretch of the imagination. What I am saying is that I do
> believe in limits.

How about n-1?

> I admire Mr. Gates and what he has accomplished. Granted, much of it was by
> sheer luck, but never the less, he has accomplished a terrific amount and
> has generally been good for the economy and our country.

Is this the obligatory kind word before the knife is shoved in?

> Remember the old DOS days?

With some nostalgia.

> The days when he made the majority of his vast
> fortune?

Not hardly.

Take a good volume DOS year, say 7 years after DOS was introduced, 1988.
Total revenues were 591 million. By comparison, in 2004 total revenues were
36.9 billion. That's 60 TIMES what it was in "the old DOS days."

In 1988 pre-tax operating income was 173 million. In 2004 it was 9 billion.

1985 was only 140 million total revenues with 41 million of pre tax
operating income.

> Everyone copied DOS OS disks and exchanged them.

You're making a case for why anti-piracy measures had to be taken.

> Yet, Bill still
> made billions, as did his stockholders.

Nobody was making "billions" with pre tax operating income in the 40 to 200
million range.

> His, and other companies, efforts at
> preventing piracy are too aggressive,

If piracy were near zero then it could be argued further tightening
measures would be 'too aggressive' but since it isn't then how can they be?


> creating vast inconvenience for their
> customers.

Oh come on. Just how "vastly" inconvenient is an almost instantaneous
online activation?

> But where else can the customers go for a compatible OS?
> Microsoft changed what was once a pleasant experience into one of ever
> increasing aggravation (maintaining a PC).

There's a heck of a lot more 'aggravation' from virus's, SPAM, trojans,
spyware, adware, popups, browser hijacks, and the rest, than something so
simple as an online activation.


> Regarding your last paragraph. The value of the product is what "We The
> People" say it is.

Since by "The People" I presume you mean 'consumers' that's only half the
equation.

> With the stroke of a pen, President Bush, or more likely
> a democratic president, can decide that Microsoft's trade practices (piracy
> countermeasures/exhorbitant pricing) are not fair, just or good for the
> people. Poof! Mr. Gates wishes suddenly account for nothing.

The President has no authority to simply declare monopolies "with the
stroke of a pen" or otherwise. That's a court issue pursuant to statute
enacted by Congress.

> Of course, the powers-that-be would use different, obscure wording to
> accomplish the deed, but it would be accomplished.

And what makes you think 'they' would feel a need to be 'obscure' about
what would apparently be a fantastically popular act?

> Just look around, it
> happens every day. Saddam who?

Until such time as Microsoft declares itself an independent Nation, invades
a couple of countries, sets a few thousand oil wells on fire, builds WMD
and uses them, becomes fascinated with 'super' cannons capable of firing
Volkswagen sized shells, lobs SCUD missiles into non combatant countries,
fires regularly on U.S. aircraft during 'peace time', attempts
assassination of U.S. Presidents, violates over 12 years 13 or so mandatory
'last chance' U.N. resolutions repeatedly demanding compliance with what
was supposed to have already been done within 30 days of the cease fire,
funds, harbors, and generally supports terrorists, and sundry other acts of
atrocity and threats the comparison doesn't hold.

And even then it followed an authorizing act of Congress.

>
> Ed Cregger
>
>
March 28, 2005 11:41:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Bottom line MS is a monopoly because NO ONE wanted to get into the home PC
market. its a fad that will soon die out........... just like TV...and there
were monopolies (and still are) controlling that. Food stores in the US are
a monopoly. Price fixing allows fuel companies to be a monopoly. What else
is new.

"Ed Cregger" <amazingseismo@yahu.com (correct the spelling)> wrote in
message news:D 27o7r03hr@enews4.newsguy.com...
>
> "David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
> news:114ea9p3gtda8fd@corp.supernews.com...
> > Ed Cregger wrote:
> >
> > --------------------------------
> > >> johns wrote:
> > >>
> > >
> > >>>>>>machine and I assume if I use my registered copy of WinXP from my
> > >>>>>>first build, on a second machine, I won't be able to get updates.
> > >>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> You should still try. A lot of times, I put together a
> > >>>> machine for someone, and install their WinXP and
> > >>>> then activate it. Say maybe 6 months later, something
> > >>>> goes wrong, and I have to repair that same machine
> > >>>> requiring a total reinstall of the same copy of WinXP.
> > >>>> I've found that if I just do a web re-activation, it will
> > >>>> fail, but if I call Microsoft, with the activation number,
> > >>>> they will re-activate it. Now if you are just dying to
> > >>>> start the worlds longest thread ( any of you ), start
> > >>>> blabbing to me about how the install has to stay with
> > >>>> the original mobo ... blah, blah, blah. I say this once
> > >>>> and only once. Bill Gates does not make laws. As
> > >>>> a consumer, I have every right under the ( REAL )
> > >>>> law to maintain the value of what I purchase. Meaning
> > >>>> ... If I go out and pay a ton of money for a copy of
> > >>>> WinXP, it is MINE !!!! And I intend to use it on a
> > >>>> single machine regardless of the hardware changes I
> > >>>> make to that machine.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> johns
> > >
> > >>
> > >> I sympathize with the sentiment but you do not buy "software" (unless
> > >> you're hiring a programmer to write it for you or contracting with a
> > >> software development firm). What you purchase is a use license.
> > >>
> > --------------------------
> >
> > In the first place let me point out that I did not intend to get into an
> > argument about what licensing arrangements 'should be'. The point was
> > simply that what you "buy" is not the software but a use license.
> >
> > > I think that a one time fee of $15, charged at the original point of
> > > sale
> > > per computer, would be enough to allow Mr. Gates and Co. a fair
profit.
> >
> > Well, I feel that a few grand should be 'enough' for someone to stand on
a
> > stage and sing a couple of songs but Barbra Streisand, who is certainly
> > 'rich enough', never listened to me either and since the market bears it
> > she made considerably more per performance.
> >
> > Which is the point. Value is determined by the market and not what one
> > 'feels' the price 'should be'.
> >
> > > That $15 should permit me, the end user, to update that one computer
for
> > > the rest of that computer's life.
> >
> > The O.S. creator didn't design, make, nor sell the computer to you and
has
> > no obligation, past their representations of the O.S.'s capabilities, as
> > to it's "useful life."
> >
> > > That is to say, if Mr. Gates and Company introduce a new operating
> > > system
> > > that will work on that computer, I should be permitted to update that
> > > machine in perpetuity via the internet.
> >
> > Other that you feeling it would be wonderful to get a new O.S. for free,
> > on what do you base this 'obligation' to provide it?
> >
> > > I am currently running seven computers in my household. I cannot and
> > > will
> > > not pay $700 or so to license each machine's OS and then have to do
the
> > > same thing again once a new OS is introduced.
> >
> > It's a free market. Don't but it.
> >
> > > An OS that I cannot do
> > > without.
> >
> > An O.S. doesn't suddenly stop working just because a new O.S. comes out
so
> > why is it that you "cannot do without," say, XP?
> >
> > > My machines are used by the wife and I. Some are old machines, but
they
> > > are needed for specific tasks. I am disabled and cannot get around the
> > > house easily. I have multiple machines in multiple locations for just
> > > this reason.
> >
> > I'm sincerely sorry to hear of your disability but what caused the
> > computers to suddenly stop working when a new O.S. came out?
> >
> > > If you think this is unreasonable, consider the other devices that you
> > > use in your daily life that are built around microprocessors. How
would
> > > you feel if you had to pay to have your automobile's OS updated every
> > > year or two? Your microwave oven? Your entertainment center? See my
> > > point?
> >
> > No, I don't. No one has offered me a 'free horsepower upgrade' to my
car,
> > nor a 'free temperature sensor upgrade' to my microwave, nor a 'free
> > remote control upgrade' to my ancient stereo receiver, nor a 'free HDTV
> > upgrade' to my television set even though I can go and buy new ones with
> > those features. Every one of those devices remains as bought and are not
> > 'updated' for 'free' when a newer, more feature rich, model hits the
> > market.
> >
> > > It is time that this constant dipping of Microsoft's hands into
> > > our pockets ended.
> >
> > > Bill has enough money now. It is time that we thought of the consumer.
> >
> > The value of a product isn't set by whether the seller is 'richer' than
> > the buyer nor whether someone thinks they 'have enough'. It's set by the
> > value of the product in the market.
> >
> > Ed Cregger
> >
> > --
> >
>
>
> Ah, but Microsoft and company are in an entirely different market position
> than Ms. Streisand, David.
>
> I am a capitalist myself, but I do care about "the common good".
>
> Microsoft, whether they intended to do so or not, has become a monopoly.
> That puts an entirely different spin on the subject.
>
> Ms. Streisand has lots of competition. Microsoft has none, in the most
> realistic sense of the word.
>
> I am not an ideolog. That is, I do not lean toward capitalism to the nth
> degree, society be damned. My friends will tell you that I am not a left
> winger by any stretch of the imagination. What I am saying is that I do
> believe in limits.
>
> I admire Mr. Gates and what he has accomplished. Granted, much of it was
by
> sheer luck, but never the less, he has accomplished a terrific amount and
> has generally been good for the economy and our country.
>
> Remember the old DOS days? The days when he made the majority of his vast
> fortune? Everyone copied DOS OS disks and exchanged them. Yet, Bill still
> made billions, as did his stockholders. His, and other companies, efforts
at
> preventing piracy are too aggressive, creating vast inconvenience for
their
> customers. But where else can the customers go for a compatible OS?
> Microsoft changed what was once a pleasant experience into one of ever
> increasing aggravation (maintaining a PC).
>
> Regarding your last paragraph. The value of the product is what "We The
> People" say it is. With the stroke of a pen, President Bush, or more
likely
> a democratic president, can decide that Microsoft's trade practices
(piracy
> countermeasures/exhorbitant pricing) are not fair, just or good for the
> people. Poof! Mr. Gates wishes suddenly account for nothing.
>
> Of course, the powers-that-be would use different, obscure wording to
> accomplish the deed, but it would be accomplished. Just look around, it
> happens every day. Saddam who?
>
> Ed Cregger
>
>
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 12:33:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 17:33:43 -0800, Connected
<connected@somewhere.here> wrote:

>On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:38:13 -0800, "JAD" <kapasitor@earthcharter.net>
>wrote:
>
>>OEM to be kept with the 'hardware purchase'.
>> if you didn't buy a machine then how would you keep it 'with' it?
>
>Well, that's just it. OEM copies are not supposed to be sold with a
>*piece* of hardware. They are supposed to be sold with a complete PC.
>It's a grey area.

I bought a license for Pro for 70 bux and they sold me a Y power
connector for harddrive to meet requirements..
Eric
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 8:59:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

In article <SAV1e.21697$F73.21526@fe04.lga>, JAD says...
> Bottom line MS is a monopoly because NO ONE wanted to get into the home PC
> market. its a fad that will soon die out...........

Really? 3 decades and counting. Increasing year on year. Only market
saturation will stop it.


--
Conor

Windows & Outlook/OE in particular, shipped with settings making them
as open to entry as a starlet in a porno. Steve B
March 28, 2005 8:59:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Too late.........mamby pamby politicians owned by special interest allowed
BY US (YOU _ME and our folks) to do so for 5 decades.


its a fad that will soon die out... as usual you left out the rest of the
quote.... LIKE TV....and its obvious where that thinking got us.


"Conor" <conor@conorturton.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1cb23a5c32df718598a363@news.giganews.com...
> In article <SAV1e.21697$F73.21526@fe04.lga>, JAD says...
> > Bottom line MS is a monopoly because NO ONE wanted to get into the home
PC
> > market. ...........
>
> Really? 3 decades and counting. Increasing year on year. Only market
> saturation will stop it.
>
>
> --
> Conor
>
> Windows & Outlook/OE in particular, shipped with settings making them
> as open to entry as a starlet in a porno. Steve B
Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
March 28, 2005 10:16:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

JAD wrote:

> Bottom line MS is a monopoly because NO ONE wanted to get into the home PC
> market. its a fad that will soon die out........... just like TV...and there
> were monopolies (and still are) controlling that. Food stores in the US are
> a monopoly. Price fixing allows fuel companies to be a monopoly. What else
> is new.
>

How soon they forget things like CP/M-86, OS/2, and BeOS.

And, of course, there were/are more 'NIXs than the Linux line. AT&T Unix,
Ultrix, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, SCO, NeXT.

And platforms other than x386. MAC (still around, obviously), Digital
Equipment Corp made microcomputer versions of their mini-computer line,
Commodre Amiga, Atari ST, CP/M machines (MITS, IMSAI, Altair, etc.), Radio
Shack, etc.

Btw, Microsoft began life writing for CPM machines, of note being 8080
BASIC licensed to MITS, so it's little wonder that their first 8086/88 DOS
entry, 86-DOS (which became IBM PCDOS when IBM contracted MS), looked a lot
like it (they beat Digital Research's entry into the 8086/88 arena).

An amusing quote from a November 1983 issue of CREATIVE COMPUTING
"Recently, there has been talk of the imminent demise of CP/M, due to IBM's
adoption of MSDOS as their standard operating system. Given the effort
Digital Research has put into making CP/M address all aspects of
microcomputing in the past, and given the number of CP/M users already in
existence, such doom-saying is most likely only wishful thinking on the
part of competitors. Like it or not, CP/m is here to stay."

Later, Microsoft was selling MAC applications but the leading PC
applications were Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 (did someone say "no one
else" was in the PC market?). Microsoft didn't expect to make money selling
Windows itself. Windows was needed so that Word, Excel, and the other Mac
applications could run on mass market computers. Microsoft maintained one
code base for programs like Word and ran the same version of the program on
both systems. After Windows popularity exploded, it no longer made sense to
constrain its development to maintain compatibility.

And I haven't mentioned all the 'almost windows like' desktop attempts that
MS was competing with around the Windows 1 and 2 (neither of which worked
very well) era such as Symphony (Lotus Development Corp.), Framework
(Ashton-Tate), VisiOn (VisiCorp), Quarterdeck DesQ, etc.. I say almost
windows like because needing something windows like wasn't a foregone
conclusion in the 1980s.

P.S. Using the plural "stores" and "monopoly" together is an oxymoron.
March 28, 2005 10:16:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"David Maynard" <nospam@private.net> wrote in message
news:114h7i61657s216@corp.supernews.com...
> JAD wrote:
>
>> Bottom line MS is a monopoly because NO ONE wanted to get into the home
>> PC
>> market. its a fad that will soon die out........... just like TV...and
>> there
>> were monopolies (and still are) controlling that. Food stores in the US
>> are
>> a monopoly. Price fixing allows fuel companies to be a monopoly. What
>> else
>> is new.
>>
>
> How soon they forget things like CP/M-86, OS/2, and BeOS.
>
> And, of course, there were/are more 'NIXs than the Linux line. AT&T Unix,
> Ultrix, FreeBSD, NetBSD, OpenBSD, SCO, NeXT.
>
> And platforms other than x386. MAC (still around, obviously), Digital
> Equipment Corp made microcomputer versions of their mini-computer line,
> Commodre Amiga, Atari ST, CP/M machines (MITS, IMSAI, Altair, etc.), Radio
> Shack, etc.
>
> Btw, Microsoft began life writing for CPM machines, of note being 8080
> BASIC licensed to MITS, so it's little wonder that their first 8086/88 DOS
> entry, 86-DOS (which became IBM PCDOS when IBM contracted MS), looked a
> lot like it (they beat Digital Research's entry into the 8086/88 arena).
>
> An amusing quote from a November 1983 issue of CREATIVE COMPUTING
> "Recently, there has been talk of the imminent demise of CP/M, due to
> IBM's adoption of MSDOS as their standard operating system. Given the
> effort Digital Research has put into making CP/M address all aspects of
> microcomputing in the past, and given the number of CP/M users already in
> existence, such doom-saying is most likely only wishful thinking on the
> part of competitors. Like it or not, CP/m is here to stay."
>
> Later, Microsoft was selling MAC applications but the leading PC
> applications were Word Perfect and Lotus 1-2-3 (did someone say "no one
> else" was in the PC market?). Microsoft didn't expect to make money
> selling Windows itself. Windows was needed so that Word, Excel, and the
> other Mac applications could run on mass market computers. Microsoft
> maintained one code base for programs like Word and ran the same version
> of the program on both systems. After Windows popularity exploded, it no
> longer made sense to constrain its development to maintain compatibility.
>
> And I haven't mentioned all the 'almost windows like' desktop attempts
> that MS was competing with around the Windows 1 and 2 (neither of which
> worked very well) era such as Symphony (Lotus Development Corp.),
> Framework (Ashton-Tate), VisiOn (VisiCorp), Quarterdeck DesQ, etc.. I say
> almost windows like because needing something windows like wasn't a
> foregone conclusion in the 1980s.
>
> P.S. Using the plural "stores" and "monopoly" together is an oxymoron.
>
>
yes food 'industry'
!