Little red non-metal washers

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

My new computer, only the second one I've assembled, is running now,
and I'm wondering what the purpose was of those little red washers
made of fiber or heavy paper.

I've seen them under the screws that hold a motherboard in, but that
couldn't be for insulation, could it? Since the top of the post the
screw screws into is touching the ground trace on the underside of the
motherboard, why should it matter if touches it on the upside also?

Are the red washers shock absorbers or lock washers of a sort?

Thanks

Meirman
--
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[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

meirman wrote:

> what the purpose was of those little red washers
> made of fiber or heavy paper.
>
> I've seen them under the screws that hold a motherboard
> in, but that couldn't be for insulation, could it?
> Since the top of the post the screw screws into is
> touching the ground trace on the underside of the
> motherboard, why should it matter if touches it on the
> upside also?

The red washers are only for electrical insulation, and sometimes one
is needed for the screw as well as for the post, depending on how the
board is designed. Don't assume that your motherboard doesn't need
washers; always inspect it on both sides and around each hole, and use
a fiber washer where ever theres a possibility of a short.

 

[Chris]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1111920682.826228.271680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
> meirman wrote:
>
>> what the purpose was of those little red washers
>> made of fiber or heavy paper.
>>
>> I've seen them under the screws that hold a motherboard
>> in, but that couldn't be for insulation, could it?
>> Since the top of the post the screw screws into is
>> touching the ground trace on the underside of the
>> motherboard, why should it matter if touches it on the
>> upside also?
>
> The red washers are only for electrical insulation, and sometimes one
> is needed for the screw as well as for the post, depending on how the
> board is designed. Don't assume that your motherboard doesn't need
> washers; always inspect it on both sides and around each hole, and use
> a fiber washer where ever theres a possibility of a short.
>
What garbage, all motherboards of ATX design and BTX are supposed to ground
through the case as shielding, they are as you said to stop the screws
working loose and many case manufactures no longer supply them. As CPU
speeds venture further and further in to the microwave band this will be
more vital.


--
Chris
Technical director CKCCOMPUSCRIPT
Apple Computers, Intel, Roland audio, ATI, Microsoft, Sun Solaris, Cisco and
Silicone Graphics.
Wholesale distributor and specialist audio visual computers and servers
FREE SUPPORT @,
http://www.ckccomp.plus.com/site/page.HTM
ckccomp25@hotmail.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Chris wrote:
> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:1111920682.826228.271680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

> > The red washers are only for electrical insulation,
> > Don't assume that your motherboard doesn't need
> > washers; always inspect it on both sides and around
> > each hole, and use a fiber washer where ever theres
> > a possibility of a short.

> What garbage, all motherboards of ATX design and BTX are
> supposed to ground through the case as shielding, they are
> as you said to stop the screws working loose

Nonsense. Fiber washers may be the worst choice for holding screws in
place, worse than lock or bell washers or even no washers at all.
Their only purpose is to provide electrical insulation, and
motherboards are still manufactured with inadequate clearance around
some of their holes.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Chris wrote:
> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message

>> The red washers are only for electrical insulation,
>> Don't assume that your motherboard doesn't need
>> washers; always inspect it on both sides and around
>> each hole, and use a fiber washer where ever theres
>> a possibility of a short.
>
> What garbage, all motherboards of ATX design and BTX are
> supposed to ground through the case as shielding, they are
> as you said to stop the screws working loose
> >
> > Nonsense. Fiber washers may be the worst choice for
> > holding screws in place, worse than lock or bell
> > washers or even no washers at all.

> So when I designed motherboards over the last 11 years
> testing their ground plane effect making sure the copper
> left around the edge and the stipples around the holes
> that the impedance was correct and that harmonics did not
> exceed each countries specification it was not correct?
> 27 years of this and you know better, I think not. You may
> want to fry your balls with microwaves I do not, why did
> Intel put metal shielding over the CPU core when it's just
> another layer for heat to travel through, why have AMD
> now followed suit because core speeds up in the GHz spell
> problems with harmonics.

I'm not at all disagreeing with you about grounding motherboards; I'm
only saying that fiber washers don't improve the grip of screws, and
some holes need insulators to prevent shorts. You didn't design every
motherboard, and not every motherboard was designed properly.

 

[Chris]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

<do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1111985463.733153.162060@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> Chris wrote:
>> <do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com> wrote in message
>> news:1111920682.826228.271680@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>> > The red washers are only for electrical insulation,
>> > Don't assume that your motherboard doesn't need
>> > washers; always inspect it on both sides and around
>> > each hole, and use a fiber washer where ever theres
>> > a possibility of a short.
>
>> What garbage, all motherboards of ATX design and BTX are
>> supposed to ground through the case as shielding, they are
>> as you said to stop the screws working loose
>
> Nonsense. Fiber washers may be the worst choice for holding screws in
> place, worse than lock or bell washers or even no washers at all.
> Their only purpose is to provide electrical insulation, and
> motherboards are still manufactured with inadequate clearance around
> some of their holes.
>
So when I designed motherboards over the last 11 years testing their ground
plane effect making sure the copper left around the edge and the stipples
around the holes that the impedance was correct and that harmonics did not
exceed each countries specification it was not correct? 27 years of this and
you know better, I think not. You may want to fry your balls with microwaves
I do not, why did Intel put metal shielding over the CPU core when it's just
another layer for heat to travel through, why have AMD now followed suit
because core speeds up in the GHz spell problems with harmonics.


--
Chris
Technical director CKCCOMPUSCRIPT
Apple Computers, Intel, Roland audio, ATI, Microsoft, Sun Solaris, Cisco and
Silicone Graphics.
Wholesale distributor and specialist audio visual computers and servers
FREE SUPPORT @,
http://www.ckccomp.plus.com/site/page.HTM
ckccomp25@hotmail.com

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On 28 Mar 2005 22:13:56 -0800, do_not_spam_me@my-deja.com wrote:


>I'm not at all disagreeing with you about grounding motherboards; I'm
>only saying that fiber washers don't improve the grip of screws, and
>some holes need insulators to prevent shorts. You didn't design every
>motherboard, and not every motherboard was designed properly.

Those washers are from days gone by. They were sometimes needed on the
older mb's for eletrical insulation of the screws but I doubt you
will find any contemporary mb will need them unless you are using big
fat screw heads (which you shouldn't). I never use them anymore and
never have a problem.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

>So when I designed motherboards over the last 11 years testing their ground
>plane effect making sure the copper left around the edge and the stipples
>around the holes that the impedance was correct and that harmonics did not
>exceed each countries specification it was not correct? 27 years of this and
>you know better, I think not. You may want to fry your balls with microwaves
>I do not, why did Intel put metal shielding over the CPU core when it's just
>another layer for heat to travel through, why have AMD now followed suit
>because core speeds up in the GHz spell problems with harmonics.
====================

I'm not getting a clear picture of what is the preferred method.

How about clarifying a little.

Thanks.

Jack

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Take an unmounted mother board. Drop a mounting screw in all holes
that will be used for mounting the board to case. Now look at the
screw as it sits flush on board. If any electical trace material from
board circuitry passes under head of screw place a non conductive
washer under the head of the screw. If all that is under the head is
the isolated circular area around hole then no washer is needed.





--
ASUS A8V/Athlon 64 FX-55
ATI RADEON X800XT PE
1GB OCZ Gold Edition Rev3 DDR PC-3700

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 01:44:02 -0500, Hawkeye <Hawkeye__59@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>Take an unmounted mother board. Drop a mounting screw in all holes
>that will be used for mounting the board to case. Now look at the
>screw as it sits flush on board. If any electical trace material from
>board circuitry passes under head of screw place a non conductive
>washer under the head of the screw. If all that is under the head is
>the isolated circular area around hole then no washer is needed.
============

Thanks for the info.

Jack