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Troubleshooting help respectfully requested

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May 5, 2005 5:03:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Hello,

Just found out the power supply looks good.
the main indicator to the problem is that
both the green power light and the amber
light not described in the users manual
is on at the very same time.

Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??

Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.

I am surprised at the lack of responses.
Are there no technical people out there
doing component level troubleshooting ?

Is everything black boxed today which really
lets you learn nothing about anything.

geoff


"Geoff" <gmvoeth@(nomail)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:8ac66$427971b4$4f0155d$5869@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>
> Hello,
>
> need some troubleshooting advice here.
>
> Computer: Gateway Essential 633C Celeron
> MB is MS-6312 VER:1
> 64MB SDRAM
>
> Got a dead computer and do not know where to start
> because I have no Schematics or test equipment
> other than a DMM.
>
> Symptoms:
> push power switch amber light comes on.
> shouldn't that light be green ???
> no video...Video screen blank.
> No signs of life from the floppy drive.
> No BIOS or beep codes or beeps of any kind.
> CPU heat sink gets warm to the touch.
> stays like that forever.
> Hold in power switch for 5 seconds and power goes off.
>
> +12 volts is +11.82
> +5 volts is +5.1
>
> cant get to the other voltages easily so I have not yet checked them.
>
> Any ideas how to know if all the clocks are running
>
>
> might the celeron CPU be dead or possibly the ram ???
>
> I would think if the ram was totally bad the CPU would
> still run the POST from the BIOS and deliver a beep code.
> If it was the video adapter I would also expect to hear a
> beep code.
>
> I suspect either there is no timing and control
> getting to the CPU or the CPU is dead Any ideas are welcome
> especially from someone who has troubleshot this kind
> of problem before.
>
> One other thing of interest.
> Before the machine died there was herringbone patterns on the
> video display. You would have to start the computer two or three
> times in a row before it would come on. Next day the machine just would not start up.
>
> I know the monitor, keyboard, mouse, hard drive are all good.
>
> In case you are wondering I do not put this in the shop
> because I figure an all or nothing kind of trouble might be fun
> to figure out.
>
>
> lol the power supply is only 90 Watts.
> There is black/white wire pair coming out of the power supply
> and attaching to the motherboard. Have not yet figured out
> what that is for.
>
>
> geoff
>
>
May 5, 2005 2:57:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Geoff" <gmvoeth@(nomail)yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:D 7dc7$4279d385$4f01596$7698@DIALUPUSA.NET...
> Hello,
>
> Just found out the power supply looks good.
> the main indicator to the problem is that
> both the green power light and the amber
> light not described in the users manual
> is on at the very same time.
>
> Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??
>
> Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
> to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
> motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.
>

There's a mobo manual here;
http://ftp.cc.ntut.edu.tw/ftp/Vendors/MSI/manual/old/63...
But not the technical information you're after.
Mail or call Gateway support for info on the led meanings.

I couldn't find your original thread and maybe you've been given
this advice already, but reading the text below I'd try the
following;
1) Look for any signs of failing capacitors on the motherboard,
see here;
http://www.careyholzman.com/caps/gallery.htm
http://www.overclockers.com/tips00140/
http://www.examnotes.net/archive80-2003-8-1019173.html
I've seen plenty where you can see the problem clearly, but I've
also had two msi boards (6378) in here that didn't show the
classic bulging/leaking signs but were revived by cap replacement.

2) Try running with just the bare minimum hardware, and if it
starts add things back one at a time to find the fault.
The herringbone pattern could be caused by part of the integrated
video hardware failing, try a pci video card if possible. Be
warned through, if something on the mobo has failed there is a
risk that it could kill the pci card that you try.

3) The only way to eliminate the psu as a cause would be to swap
it out, but I really don't think that's the problem.


> I am surprised at the lack of responses.
> Are there no technical people out there
> doing component level troubleshooting ?
>
> Is everything black boxed today which really
> lets you learn nothing about anything.
>

[snip]

Let me know what you find, if anything.

--
Ian
Related resources
May 5, 2005 3:06:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

"Apollo" <ian_dunbar6@hot[un-munge-me]mail.com> wrote in message news:3du90dF7522U1@individual.net...
>
> "Geoff" <gmvoeth@(nomail)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:D 7dc7$4279d385$4f01596$7698@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>> Hello,
>>
>> Just found out the power supply looks good.
>> the main indicator to the problem is that
>> both the green power light and the amber
>> light not described in the users manual
>> is on at the very same time.
>>
>> Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??
>>
>> Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
>> to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
>> motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.
>>
>
> There's a mobo manual here;
> http://ftp.cc.ntut.edu.tw/ftp/Vendors/MSI/manual/old/63...
> But not the technical information you're after.
> Mail or call Gateway support for info on the led meanings.
>
> I couldn't find your original thread and maybe you've been given this advice already, but reading the text below I'd try the
> following;
> 1) Look for any signs of failing capacitors on the motherboard, see here;
> http://www.careyholzman.com/caps/gallery.htm
> http://www.overclockers.com/tips00140/
> http://www.examnotes.net/archive80-2003-8-1019173.html
> I've seen plenty where you can see the problem clearly, but I've also had two msi boards (6378) in here that didn't show the
> classic bulging/leaking signs but were revived by cap replacement.
>
> 2) Try running with just the bare minimum hardware, and if it starts add things back one at a time to find the fault.
> The herringbone pattern could be caused by part of the integrated video hardware failing, try a pci video card if possible. Be
> warned through, if something on the mobo has failed there is a risk that it could kill the pci card that you try.
>
> 3) The only way to eliminate the psu as a cause would be to swap it out, but I really don't think that's the problem.
>
>
>> I am surprised at the lack of responses.
>> Are there no technical people out there
>> doing component level troubleshooting ?
>>
>> Is everything black boxed today which really
>> lets you learn nothing about anything.
>>
>
> [snip]
>
> Let me know what you find, if anything.
>
> --
> Ian
>


Thanks for the info.
There are a few more caps I can try to replace but they look in good shape
the rest are these tiny surface mount types which I would be unable
to deal with. The problem seems to be related to the video chip
which also handles timing signals for the CPU and ram I think.
I have tested the caps I removed that look bad and only one tested
bad it was about 25% of its rated value.
I am beginning to think there is no hope for this board
if that video chip is cause of the trouble.
That led I was talking about is connected to two signals
one seems to be green- PLED probably Power-LED and the other
says SLED which might mean Sleep-LED which turns the color
to amber if you put the system to sleep/hibernate ????
LOL it is both at the same time.
I am sore today from hunching over the board and soldering all afternoon
yesterday so will pick up where I left off maybe tomorrow.
I really wanted to get this machine up again but I now think it
just will never happen. If only I had the proper test equipment
I could tell pretty fast if the caps were causing this trouble.

The floppy is totally dead...no signs of life...shouldn't there be an
internal initialization routine that causes some activity on powerup ??

I think the video chip which also supplies critical timing signals
is the culprit here. Meaning the trouble is related to this.

geoff
May 5, 2005 3:30:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.pc-homebuilt (More info?)

Thanks for the info.
There are a few more caps I can try to replace but they look in good shape
the rest are these tiny surface mount types which I would be unable
to deal with. The problem seems to be related to the video chip
which also handles timing signals for the CPU and ram I think.
I have tested the caps I removed that look bad and only one tested
bad it was about 25% of its rated value.
I am beginning to think there is no hope for this board
if that video chip is cause of the trouble.
That led I was talking about is connected to two signals
one seems to be green- PLED probably Power-LED and the other
says SLED which might mean Sleep-LED which turns the color
to amber if you put the system to sleep/hibernate ????
LOL it is both at the same time.
I am sore today from hunching over the board and soldering all afternoon
yesterday so will pick up where I left off maybe tomorrow.
I really wanted to get this machine up again but I now think it
just will never happen. If only I had the proper test equipment
I could tell pretty fast if the caps were causing this trouble.

The floppy is totally dead...no signs of life...shouldn't there be an
internal initialization routine that causes some activity on powerup ??

I think the video chip which also supplies critical timing signals
is the culprit here. Meaning the trouble is related to this.

geoff



<ian_dunbar6@hot[un-munge-me]mail.com> wrote in message news:3du90dF7522U1@individual.net...
>
> "Geoff" <gmvoeth@(nomail)yahoo.com> wrote in message news:D 7dc7$4279d385$4f01596$7698@DIALUPUSA.NET...
>> Hello,
>>
>> Just found out the power supply looks good.
>> the main indicator to the problem is that
>> both the green power light and the amber
>> light not described in the users manual
>> is on at the very same time.
>>
>> Maybe someone can tell me what the amber light represents ??
>>
>> Both lights on at the very same time would mean something
>> to me if I could get my hands on the schematics for this
>> motherboard. Gateway MS-6312 Ver:1.
>>
>
> There's a mobo manual here;
> http://ftp.cc.ntut.edu.tw/ftp/Vendors/MSI/manual/old/63...
> But not the technical information you're after.
> Mail or call Gateway support for info on the led meanings.
>
> I couldn't find your original thread and maybe you've been given this advice already, but reading the text below I'd try the
> following;
> 1) Look for any signs of failing capacitors on the motherboard, see here;
> http://www.careyholzman.com/caps/gallery.htm
> http://www.overclockers.com/tips00140/
> http://www.examnotes.net/archive80-2003-8-1019173.html
> I've seen plenty where you can see the problem clearly, but I've also had two msi boards (6378) in here that didn't show the
> classic bulging/leaking signs but were revived by cap replacement.
>
> 2) Try running with just the bare minimum hardware, and if it starts add things back one at a time to find the fault.
> The herringbone pattern could be caused by part of the integrated video hardware failing, try a pci video card if possible. Be
> warned through, if something on the mobo has failed there is a risk that it could kill the pci card that you try.
>
> 3) The only way to eliminate the psu as a cause would be to swap it out, but I really don't think that's the problem.
>
>
>> I am surprised at the lack of responses.
>> Are there no technical people out there
>> doing component level troubleshooting ?
>>
>> Is everything black boxed today which really
>> lets you learn nothing about anything.
>>
>
> [snip]
>
> Let me know what you find, if anything.
>
> --
> Ian
>
!