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What plane ? - small heavy 4engine jet

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Anonymous
February 20, 2005 12:31:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I have flown it a lot as a passenger from London Stansted/UnitedKingdom to
LaRochelle/France.
First it was with Buzz. Later aquired by Ryanair in april 2003.
Anyone ?
It is cool cuz it very smooth and silent.
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:40:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.

Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and ceiling are
quite slow/low for a jet.



"Nicolaj C." <fjernmigspamnic@events.dk> wrote in message
news:42184adc$0$250$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>I have flown it a lot as a passenger from London Stansted/UnitedKingdom to
>LaRochelle/France.
> First it was with Buzz. Later aquired by Ryanair in april 2003.
> Anyone ?
> It is cool cuz it very smooth and silent.
>
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Spot on - thanks !

>"Trent Hopkinson" <hoppys1@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> >news:42184cfe$0$31621$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.
>
> Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and ceiling
> are quite slow/low for a jet.
>
>
>
> "Nicolaj C." <fjernmigspamnic@events.dk> wrote in message
> news:42184adc$0$250$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>>I have flown it a lot as a passenger from London Stansted/UnitedKingdom to
>>LaRochelle/France.
>> First it was with Buzz. Later aquired by Ryanair in april 2003.
>> Anyone ?
>> It is cool cuz it very smooth and silent.
>>
>
Anonymous
February 20, 2005 10:40:29 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sun, 20 Feb 2005 19:40:28 +1100, Trent Hopkinson wrote:

> Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.

Is there any real difference between the Avro RJ100 and the BAe146-100?


> Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and ceiling are
> quite slow/low for a jet.

It's beautiful on the outside, IMO, but it's a tin can on the inside.
Quiet yes, but crowded. Plus there was a smell on board I'll never forget.
I think someone barfed in the Recirc Air Supply or something!

--

Marcel
(When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the
earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci)
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 2:43:14 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Trent Hopkinson" <hoppys1@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:42184cfe$0$31621$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
> Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.
>
> Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and ceiling
> are quite slow/low for a jet.

Known as the "Whisper Jet". I think I read somewhere that the engines are
the ones also used in the Apache helicopter. I might be wrong (and I'm sure
someone will tell me!) :0))

Iain
February 21, 2005 2:54:41 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Trent Hopkinson wrote:
> Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.
>
> Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and
> ceiling are quite slow/low for a jet.
>
>
>
> "Nicolaj C." <fjernmigspamnic@events.dk> wrote in message
> news:42184adc$0$250$edfadb0f@dread11.news.tele.dk...
>> I have flown it a lot as a passenger from London
>> Stansted/UnitedKingdom to LaRochelle/France.
>> First it was with Buzz. Later aquired by Ryanair in april 2003.
>> Anyone ?
>> It is cool cuz it very smooth and silent.

One of my favourite a/c on FS9. Plus it's one of the relatively few
permitted to operate from London City airport (EGLC, due to 5.5deg G/S and
presumably noise abatement), which I control from time to time on VATSIM and
like to fly from.

There's a great model available on AVSIM and loads of paint jobs too.
(There's even a highly detailed panel with hundreds of operating switches
for APUs, hydraulics, cabin aircon and all sorts. Far too technical for me
though!!)

Tim
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 4:12:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"IAIN SMITH" <iainsmith.rugby@btinternet.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:cvchgh$amm$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
>
> "Trent Hopkinson" <hoppys1@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
> news:42184cfe$0$31621$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
>> Small 4 engine jet sounds like a BAe146 to me.
>>
>> Some people say it has no engines, just 5 apu's. It's climb and ceiling
>> are quite slow/low for a jet.
>
> Known as the "Whisper Jet". I think I read somewhere that the engines are
> the ones also used in the Apache helicopter. I might be wrong (and I'm
> sure someone will tell me!) :0))
>
> Iain
>
Yes, the engines are derived from a helicopter power plant. That's one of
it's main disadvantages. They are not turbofans but rather geared fans which
means that the front fan is driven through a gearbox. This in turn causes
more trouble and higher operating costs as due to the gearbox engine cycles
are quite limited compared to a "normal" turbofan where most of the engine
maintenance/overhaul cand be done "on condition" (without removing the
engine from the A/C).
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 4:12:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in
news:cvcj2h$a5i$1@news.hispeed.ch:

>> Known as the "Whisper Jet". I think I read somewhere that the engines
>> are the ones also used in the Apache helicopter. I might be wrong
>> (and I'm sure someone will tell me!) :0))
>>
>> Iain
>>
> Yes, the engines are derived from a helicopter power plant. That's one
> of it's main disadvantages. They are not turbofans but rather geared
> fans which means that the front fan is driven through a gearbox. This
> in turn causes more trouble and higher operating costs as due to the
> gearbox engine cycles are quite limited compared to a "normal"
> turbofan where most of the engine maintenance/overhaul cand be done
> "on condition" (without removing the engine from the A/C).

What engine is this? The only jet engines I know of that have a gearbox "in
the fans" is actually a turboprop engine (turbojet engine that drives a
propeller through a reduction gearbox).

Are you saying there is a turbofan engine out there that uses a gearbox
between either the compressor blades and the fan blades or the turbine
section and the fan blades to, I suppose, increase the speed of the fan
blades alone and thus increase flow of bypass air to the exhaust stream?
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 5:27:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> It's beautiful on the outside, IMO, but it's a tin can on the inside.
> Quiet yes, but crowded. Plus there was a smell on board I'll never forget.
> I think someone barfed in the Recirc Air Supply or something!

Don't think you can blame the manufacturer for that ;) 
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 9:40:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Scott Zane" <whatsit@to.you> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:Xns96044F3F9286Bscottzaneverizonnet@216.196.97.131...
> "Oskar Wagner" <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote in
> news:cvcj2h$a5i$1@news.hispeed.ch:
>
>>> Known as the "Whisper Jet". I think I read somewhere that the engines
>>> are the ones also used in the Apache helicopter. I might be wrong
>>> (and I'm sure someone will tell me!) :0))
>>>
>>> Iain
>>>
>> Yes, the engines are derived from a helicopter power plant. That's one
>> of it's main disadvantages. They are not turbofans but rather geared
>> fans which means that the front fan is driven through a gearbox. This
>> in turn causes more trouble and higher operating costs as due to the
>> gearbox engine cycles are quite limited compared to a "normal"
>> turbofan where most of the engine maintenance/overhaul cand be done
>> "on condition" (without removing the engine from the A/C).
>
> What engine is this? The only jet engines I know of that have a gearbox
> "in
> the fans" is actually a turboprop engine (turbojet engine that drives a
> propeller through a reduction gearbox).
>
> Are you saying there is a turbofan engine out there that uses a gearbox
> between either the compressor blades and the fan blades or the turbine
> section and the fan blades to, I suppose, increase the speed of the fan
> blades alone and thus increase flow of bypass air to the exhaust stream?

it's a Avco-Lycoming ALF502R-5. (Nowadays an AlliedSignal-Honeywell
Company). Unfortunately I couldn't find a cutaway picture of this quite
unique turbine. As I remember it's a funny combination of axial and
centrifugal turbine and gearbox. Maybe somebody else can provide something?
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
Anonymous
February 21, 2005 11:00:39 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:12:30 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
<rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

>Yes, the engines are derived from a helicopter power plant. That's one of
>it's main disadvantages. They are not turbofans but rather geared fans which
>means that the front fan is driven through a gearbox. This in turn causes
>more trouble and higher operating costs as due to the gearbox engine cycles
>are quite limited compared to a "normal" turbofan where most of the engine
>maintenance/overhaul cand be done "on condition" (without removing the
>engine from the A/C).

Prince Andrew seems to like it :-(

FWIW, Oskar, as I'm sure you know, the 146 is the only jet allowed to
use London City. That's one of its main advantages as far as the UK is
concerned.

BTW: Isn't it called an Avro something or other these days?

James
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 12:25:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:icfk115g72geja5hu1p2kil9c725kbp59j@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:12:30 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
> <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:

> FWIW, Oskar, as I'm sure you know, the 146 is the only jet allowed to
> use London City. That's one of its main advantages as far as the UK is
> concerned.

Not true any more James as Embraer have just achieved certification on one
of their jets for this. :0))

Iain
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 1:09:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> schrieb im
Newsbeitrag news:icfk115g72geja5hu1p2kil9c725kbp59j@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:12:30 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
> <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>>Yes, the engines are derived from a helicopter power plant. That's one of
>>it's main disadvantages. They are not turbofans but rather geared fans
>>which
>>means that the front fan is driven through a gearbox. This in turn causes
>>more trouble and higher operating costs as due to the gearbox engine
>>cycles
>>are quite limited compared to a "normal" turbofan where most of the engine
>>maintenance/overhaul cand be done "on condition" (without removing the
>>engine from the A/C).
>
> Prince Andrew seems to like it :-(
>
> FWIW, Oskar, as I'm sure you know, the 146 is the only jet allowed to
> use London City. That's one of its main advantages as far as the UK is
> concerned.
>
> BTW: Isn't it called an Avro something or other these days?
>
> James

Yep. Avro RJ70/85/100 the new codings. And the engines are now Textron
LF507, a derivative of the ALF502. AFAIK there's been a certification
process for the Fokker 70 at London City. But my guess is that it has been
superseded by the collapse of Fokker's in the end 90's.
--
Oskar
(retired captain)
Remember, in the great scheme of things, we're all small potatoes...
February 22, 2005 1:43:12 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

IAIN SMITH wrote:
> "James Hodson" <jUNDERSCOREhodson@ntlworld.com.invalid> wrote in
> message news:icfk115g72geja5hu1p2kil9c725kbp59j@4ax.com...
>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2005 13:12:30 +0100, "Oskar Wagner"
>> <rengaw@swissonline.ch> wrote:
>
>> FWIW, Oskar, as I'm sure you know, the 146 is the only jet allowed to
>> use London City. That's one of its main advantages as far as the UK
>> is concerned.
>
> Not true any more James as Embraer have just achieved certification
> on one of their jets for this. :0))
>
> Iain

Apparently this little Airbus is another one on the cards for City...

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/771639/M

Tim
Anonymous
February 22, 2005 10:44:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

> It's beautiful on the outside, IMO, but it's a tin can on the inside.
> Quiet yes, but crowded. Plus there was a smell on board I'll never forget.
> I think someone barfed in the Recirc Air Supply or something!

In service this frequent smell apparently was traced to an oil problem in
the aircon system that has caused cabin crew to become ill on an apparently
regular basis.

On regular long distance flights in Australia the BAe146 would be at FL260
but B737 birds would fly at FL370 etc on the same route.

One joke about it was that the reason it has four engines is that four is
all that they could fit on the wing [!!]

Cheers
Peter Cokley
Australia
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 12:48:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:44:10 +1000, Peter and Susan wrote:

> In service this frequent smell apparently was traced to an oil problem in
> the aircon system that has caused cabin crew to become ill on an apparently
> regular basis.

I have no idea what it was for sure.
One of the RL pilots that used to frequent this group once told me that
it's expensive to constantly use the A/C on an airliner.
So for the first half hour or so you're basically breathing recycled air...
(i.e. second-hand air that's been "cleaned up")

--

Marcel
(When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the
earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci)
Anonymous
February 24, 2005 1:31:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Marcel,

What ever happened to Brian Jones?

Regards,
John Ward
"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1afc2f8qcbs3z.sy5zzhi0jqkp.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Tue, 22 Feb 2005 19:44:10 +1000, Peter and Susan wrote:
>
> > In service this frequent smell apparently was traced to an oil problem
in
> > the aircon system that has caused cabin crew to become ill on an
apparently
> > regular basis.
>
> I have no idea what it was for sure.
> One of the RL pilots that used to frequent this group once told me that
> it's expensive to constantly use the A/C on an airliner.
> So for the first half hour or so you're basically breathing recycled
air...
> (i.e. second-hand air that's been "cleaned up")
>
> --
>
> Marcel
> (When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the
> earth with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been,
> and there you will always long to return. - Leonardo da Vinci)
Anonymous
February 25, 2005 12:16:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:31:59 +1000, John Ward wrote:

> What ever happened to Brian Jones?

Your guess is as good as mine, my friend.

Former fighter pilot with the Royal Canadian Air Force, flew all over the
world as pilot for Air Canada in the biggest planes their fleet had, very
knowledgable in the field of aviation, always had tons of links to some of
the best sites on the net and an all-around nice guy! A man to envy.

Heck...that guy taught me how to safely fly the 747!

I think his last post was somewhere in August 2003.
I just hope nothing bad happened. Maybe he and the missus relocated to
another country or something. Maybe he's flying for Cathay these days. Who
knows? I know he always loved his stopovers in Hong Kong and I also know AC
was financially in trouble, kept planes grounded, didn't buy the A340-600
due to high costs or something....

I remember we also used to have a United Airlines pilot here a few years
ago. For the life of me I can't remember his name or even if he got laid
off before or after 9/11.

And now we have Oskar.

Maybe this is all part of this group's evolution? :-)

--

Marcel
(life is a tricky thing...I'm glad I'm good at it!)
Anonymous
February 26, 2005 11:46:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Hi Marcel,

Maybe we'll hear from him again some time.

I had no idea he was a former fighter pilot - no wonder I thought he was
such a good bloke! :-)

Regards,
John Ward
"Marcel Kuijper" <zoepetier_nothing_here@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:buy0uazbpzkj.drlw3cm8r4ok$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Thu, 24 Feb 2005 10:31:59 +1000, John Ward wrote:
>
> > What ever happened to Brian Jones?
>
> Your guess is as good as mine, my friend.
>
> Former fighter pilot with the Royal Canadian Air Force, flew all over the
> world as pilot for Air Canada in the biggest planes their fleet had, very
> knowledgable in the field of aviation, always had tons of links to some of
> the best sites on the net and an all-around nice guy! A man to envy.
>
> Heck...that guy taught me how to safely fly the 747!
>
> I think his last post was somewhere in August 2003.
> I just hope nothing bad happened. Maybe he and the missus relocated to
> another country or something. Maybe he's flying for Cathay these days. Who
> knows? I know he always loved his stopovers in Hong Kong and I also know
AC
> was financially in trouble, kept planes grounded, didn't buy the A340-600
> due to high costs or something....
>
> I remember we also used to have a United Airlines pilot here a few years
> ago. For the life of me I can't remember his name or even if he got laid
> off before or after 9/11.
>
> And now we have Oskar.
>
> Maybe this is all part of this group's evolution? :-)
>
> --
>
> Marcel
> (life is a tricky thing...I'm glad I'm good at it!)
!