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socket 754 vs 939

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November 13, 2005 9:12:20 PM

yo, im a noob

Is there a significant difference between an AMD 3700+ using socket 754 and one with 939?

thanks in advance

More about : socket 754 939

November 13, 2005 9:29:53 PM

It depends what your requirements of the PC are? Technically the 754 3700+ is faster, as it runs 200Mhz faster but it limited to single channel memory interface. AMD gives the skt 939 and extra 200PR points because it can run Dual Channel memory - Overall though the DC doesn't make up for the extra 200Mhz.

But if you want to upgrade later (say to dual core) you'll be wanting to 939 system.
November 13, 2005 9:31:35 PM

what do you do with the pc? if all you do is game, get the s754 and a pci-e s754 mobo, you could even get sli with a board from ecs. if you do more than that, get a s939 mobo with a dual core. before the choice wouldve been strictly s939, but as s939 is as much a dead man walking as 754 now, it doesnt matter that much.
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November 14, 2005 12:42:34 AM

The biggest diferences between the 754, and the 939, are in the on die memory controler. Anything that uses memory , and lots of it, will be better on the 939. It's memory controller can handle more memory sticks, at tighter timings, and with a faster bus. The fact that s939 is made on a smaller die (90 nanos compared to 754s 130 nanos) also allows it to run cooler, at a slightly lower voltage, and support SSE3.
Dont get me wrong, the s754 can be a great chip, it just needs to be at the right price.
November 14, 2005 1:50:43 AM

alright i will skip all that techie crap

point blank go socket 939.

you can get cheap boards, cheap cpu's and cheap gpus

for 500bucks you can have a good cpu, ram, gpu, and mobo


If you do something other then game...then write back and let us know


You let me know what you want to do, and your price range and i will help you create the best bang for your buck for that price....and steer you away from crap and i will give you soem hiddenn gems.
November 14, 2005 5:01:40 AM

thanks guys,

i think im gonna be playing games mostly. tigerdirect has a rebate on 754 3700+ and an Abit agp mobo for just $200. I don think anything can beat that. so, any recommendation for the video card? i'm gonna start with HL2 and then move up. All i need is that the video to last for one year worth of games.

:p 
November 14, 2005 5:14:46 AM

AGP i assume?
i would go with the X800XL or 6800GT whichever you can find cheaper.

You can sometimes find smoe X850XT's for low 300's which is a nice little jump from the XL and 6800GT.

X800XL, 6800GT, X850XT...have at it
November 14, 2005 11:31:51 AM

please do not get an agp board


there is absolutely nothing wrong with the current system config except you may be limiting yourself from future upgrades. I don't know if any more procs are being made for 754 and if you are getting an AGP board than the highest car you'll ever get (maybe) is the 6800/x8 . This might not be a bad thing, but then if you want to upgrade later you'll have to sell your mobo, then your proc cause you might as well, then sell your graphics card and then buy another. But that did sound like an awfully good deal for the 3700+ with the mobo as long as the motherboard is decent
November 14, 2005 7:14:16 PM

Quote:
thanks guys,

i think im gonna be playing games mostly. tigerdirect has a rebate on 754 3700+ and an Abit agp mobo for just $200. I don think anything can beat that. so, any recommendation for the video card? i'm gonna start with HL2 and then move up. All i need is that the video to last for one year worth of games.

:p 


If it's for gaming and you're gonna get a new gfx card, skip the socket 754 as only comes in AGP (AFAIK). Meh, might be a PCie sk754 mobo, but why bother?

In general, gaming is about the gfx card, not the CPU. I would even aurgue that ram is more important (not how fast, but how much. It affect load/re-load times). CPU bottlenecking is way overstated.

Go in PCIe direction instead of AGP. Seems better/faster and even cheaper when in PCIe. AGP cards comprable to PCIe seem to cost more, plus there's an upgrade path with PCIe.

Recent reports indicate there will be an AGP X1800 card. But haven't seen one yet, or its cost.
November 14, 2005 7:15:52 PM

An AGP board is alright....a X850XT is still quite a fast system if you can get the 3700+ on the chaep.

It all depends on how fastof a system you want and what your going to do with it.....if you want to play games for the next 2 years, and at the end of the 2 yearshave med res and medium settings this would be a good cheap upgrade for you.

in 2years if you wanted a new computer you would be upgrading your whole systm anyway....so why go 939 if you are going to upgrade your whole system anyway and you can get a cheap 754?
November 14, 2005 9:19:07 PM

His rig is for gaming, and he mentions First-person-shooters. IMHO, those are all about the gfx card.

Compare prices to the new generation gfx cards in PCIe, to the last generation in AGP. The newer gen PCIe is cheaper :o 

While the sk754 w/mobo combo looks like a good deal, if you're into FPS games and wanna keep up - I doubt you're gonna save money in the "long run".

Now, you can see from my sig I have an AGP mobo, and I like to upgrade gfx cards every year. I buy used ones to keep my cost down. I fear, and current pricing bears this out, that AGP cards have become over priced compared to PCIe.

Even if they do come out with an AGP X1800XT (as announced today), I fear the price will be unfairly high and used cards are gonna be d@mn hard to find at reasonable prices because there aren't gonna be any newer ones to push down their price.

BTW, if you're basically a gamer you don't need a 3700+ cpu to play. Geez, my CPU set at stock speeds (1.8ghz) doesn't even bottleneck the 6800GT.

I'd rather get a sk939 with a 3200 Venice for pretty much the same price and allow myself easy and less expensive gfx cards upgrades for some time to come (really, I'd prolly be hunt for an skt939 Opty 146 and overclock the pooh out of it ;)  ).

EDIT: Depending on his prefered resolution, and if he finds an X850XT PE acceptible and won't wanna upgrade it for two years, yeah get the skt754.

But I don't think the new 6800gs is all that slower than an x850XT, but it's about $150 cheaper (only comes in PCIe though).

I'm just a bit annoyed with whats going on the agp scene now. We haven't saturated the bandwidth for 8x, yet its being dumped and we're getting "price penalized". My mobile OC'd to 2.5ghz is clocked faster than a 3700 (stock is 2.4ghz), yet I can't get access to faster gfx card, wtf?
It's a nasty "catch22". I'd need a new mobo & cpu just to be able to think about a gfx card upgrade. Can't afford ALL that. So, I view the sktA and skt754 platform as coming with a "tariff" of $250 (mobo+cpu) or more just to upgrade gfx cards.
November 14, 2005 11:59:29 PM

i think socket939 is better for your upgrades at future!
November 15, 2005 4:05:50 AM

you forgot that he said that he can get a deal for a 3700+ and a mobo....find me a solution for a 939, for 200bucks....

secondly you said your 1.8Ghz Barton doesn't bottleneck your 6800GT...LOL! you got jokes...it doesn't cripple it, but the 6800GT isn't going as fast as it could because of your slow cpu...and thats what bottleneck means...because if the card was truely not bottlenecked you could get a FX57 and would have the same framerates....i would bet my life a FX57 would bet much better then what you have now.

3rdly unless he games at 16x12 he doesn't need a X1800XT or a 7800GTX. check the reviews....a 6800GT->X1800XT all perform pretty close as lower res settings.....So if he rocks 1028, then the X850XT would allow him to max out the glitz and glammor of any game

I am playing all the same games he is going to be play...i am rocking a 2800+(754) and a 6800GT....no probs at lower res.
November 15, 2005 5:16:54 PM

you forgot (No. I did mention this in my post, re-read it pls.) that he said that he can get a deal for a 3700+ and a mobo....find me a solution for a 939, for 200bucks.... You're not getting it. I'm saying YES, you can save a few bucks on the CPU/mobo, but you'll end-up spending MORE cuz you're stuck with AGP. The agp cards are much more expensive than equavilent PCIe cards. The 6800GT etc cards came out in 2Q of '04, (so its about 1 1/2 year old now) its already showing its age in newer games like FEAR and COD2. It ain't gonna be a good card for another two years. I don't like playing at low-to-medium settings personally.

secondly you said your 1.8Ghz Barton doesn't bottleneck your 6800GT...LOL! you got jokes...it doesn't cripple it, but the 6800GT isn't going as fast as it could because of your slow cpu...and thats what bottleneck means...because if the card was truely not bottlenecked you could get a FX57 and would have the same framerates....i would bet my life a FX57 would bet much better then what you have now.

Dude, you're talking newbie FUD here. FPS games are all about the gfx card, not the CPU. Yeah, I've run D3 FarCry etc with the CPU set 1.8ghz and also set above 2.3ghz, no difference I could see when playing.

Just think, you've got peeps with the a64 3800+ (@2.4ghz) running 2 7800GTX's in SLI. What's that in simple math, about 1.2ghz per gfx card? Only FPS game I know of which is pretty CPU dependant is Unreal Tournament.


3rdly unless he games at 16x12 he doesn't need a X1800XT or a 7800GTX. check the reviews....a 6800GT->X1800XT all perform pretty close as lower res settings.....So if he rocks 1028, then the X850XT would allow him to max out the glitz and glammor of any game No it won't, check the FEAR benchies around. 31 fps with no soft shadows, no AA, no AF. EDIT: The 31fps I quote is for a 6800GT, didn't see a number for the x850xt

The 31 fps is "average", not minimum which is more important. Turn up the eye candy and the 6800GT chugs at 10x7 in NEW games today. Whats is gonna be like next year, or the second year?


I am playing all the same games he is going to be play...i am rocking a 2800+(754) and a 6800GT....no probs at lower res. You got FEAR or COD2? What fps are you getting at 1028 with eye candy?

BTW: Your CPU runs at 1.8ghz and no DC. You seem to be proving my point above that even a Barton 2500 @ 1.8ghz (with DC, worth another 3-5% performance) isn't a bottleneck. ;)  )
November 15, 2005 5:46:27 PM

I'd agree with the majority. Getting a s939 is the only way to go. Though a 200$ 3700 and mobo is fantastic. Personaly i would resell it and make a profit or not buy it at all because for ur needs, if u can seriously see ur self playing games in the future, it's not that agp isn't adequate (bus wise) but they aren't going to make any new cards and it really is overpriced.

Now obviously getting an expensive 300$ agp card now plus 200$ may seem good but with Pci e, Sata, DC, And the HUGE FSB there's no way u'd want to back to 754.

And whoever said s939 was dead, couldn't be more wrong since AMD plans to release more cpus up until 2007 (rumour has it, and of course parrallel to M2 plans)

So finally i can only say, u can get a Full system, 1024mb DDR400,pci-e,sata,3500+ s939 for about 650 U.S now i don't know how that fit's in ur budget, but that's what i've seen it for and others might have seen it lower.

Oh and i figured i'd just throw this in for what it's worth. But if games were to truly rely heavily on cpu speed then Intel would be wooping AMD, so as for that 200mhz difference, it's probably insignificant and as far as that barton 1.8ghz, no comment,lol.
November 15, 2005 8:28:29 PM

Might wanna check this out. Its a socket939 a64 3200+ or 3500+ Cpu with a PCIe mobo for $220. Note: the headline say 3500+ cpu, but seems to say 3200+ down below? EDIT: Yeah, its a 3500+, I see confirmation from peeps who got in on the deal. Will need a PCIe gfx card. AGP express is lame, run at PCI speeds and will cripple an agp card.

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4590577
November 15, 2005 9:25:47 PM

Thankx everyone for the suggestions. now i have 3 options. can u compare these 3 in terms of future ungrade?

everything else is the same, and the prices are about the same (+-20)*

1. ABIT KU8 ULi skt754 AGP + Athlon 3700 2.4Ghz + Geforce 6600 256MB
2. Intel D945GTPLR + P4 519 @3.06Ghz + X800XL 256MB PCIe
3. ECS K8T890-A skt 939 + Athlon 3500 + X800XL 256MB PCIe

btw, i heard via chipsets are bad, is that true?

many thanks
November 15, 2005 10:35:10 PM

As far as upgradeability goes, the Intel setup wins easily. In fact for a mere 50% cost increase, it could be upgraded to the performance level of the slower Amd system, if done before actual purchase.
The fastest Amd system would be the least upgradeably, but is also the system that would last the longest before requireing an upgrade.
The 3500 setup is a poor choice, because it utilizes via and ECS. Not a garranty of problems, but a certainty.
While I think via chipsets have always been quite good, thier drivers and support have been truly terrible. Via the corporation is not user friendly.
Thier firmware writers are also not that good. The via drivers have been know to conflict with some software, and firmware. Most notably Windows, and audio drivers.
While a would have some faith in a via chipset coming on an Abit mobo, coming on an ECS board just scares the living daylights out of me.
November 15, 2005 11:15:14 PM

Quote:
I don't like playing at low-to-medium settings personally.


So because you dont doesn't mean he will care, Its true that the 6800GT is over a year old and that in 2years he will want to upgrade. But there are still people playing games with 9800pros right now....how old are those? 5years?


Quote:
Dude, you're talking newbie FUD here. FPS games are all about the gfx card, not the CPU. Yeah, I've run D3 FarCry etc with the CPU set 1.8ghz and also set above 2.3ghz, no difference I could see when playing.


Yes i am aware that a lost cost cpu and a better gfx card is better....look into the other 25 posts i have put that into in the last 48 hours alone. and also if you think that your 1.8Gh barton is comparable to my 1.8Ghz A64, you're HIGH!!! Check toms cpu comparison chart....for Doom3 my cpu got 80fps youres got 60fps. Same video card, same ram everything. So i think the cpu does make a slight difference....Your 2.3Ghz Barton would be closeto my 1.8Ghz A64 in games.


Quote:
Just think, you've got peeps with the a64 3800+ (@2.4ghz) running 2 7800GTX's in SLI. What's that in simple math, about 1.2ghz per gfx card? Only FPS game I know of which is pretty CPU dependant is Unreal Tournament.


is not about being 1.2Ghz per card....because thats not how that works. in fact thats not a great way to put it. because you couldn't run a single GTX on a A64 at 1.2GHz with playable framerates at almos any res setting....maybe 640x480. those 7800GTX's are bottlenecked with the fastest A64 FX57 when its OC'd......The 3800+ doing bottleneck it to the point of collapse but it doesn't let them get full power out of that SLI solution.



Quote:
No it won't, check the FEAR benchies around. 31 fps with no soft shadows, no AA, no AF. EDIT: The 31fps I quote is for a 6800GT, didn't see a number for the x850xt

The 31 fps is "average", not minimum which is more important. Turn up the eye candy and the 6800GT chugs at 10x7 in NEW games today. Whats is gonna be like next year, or the second year?


So i said the X850XT and you gave me numbers for the 6800GT....the 850 is about 20% faster. ANYWAY.....you are picking the newest and most grpahically challengeing game...and even then you said it...its PLAYABLE. Rememeber when farycry came out? to play it at those some 10x7 settings with almost nothing turned up beyond med you had to spend $600. Yes if you chose the most grpahically challenging games and compre middle level cards they arn't going to be able to run everything max'd out. but you know what....Look at HL2, that game looks amazing, and you can run it on a 9600XT....which is about 8years old. at a lower res with nothing turned on...but its possible.

Whats the X850XT going to be like in 2years? probably laggin behind in some newer games.....no doubt, but so will some other graphics cards you can buy today for WAY MORE then the X850XT. In two years a 7800GTX will be a mid level budget card.....lol THINK!!


Quote:
You got FEAR or COD2? What fps are you getting at 1028 with eye candy?


Well i ran the FEAR demo, 16x12 never got below 25fps. granted it only had one scene that was intesive but it ran pretty well. at 10x7 i could turn everything to medium and get no lower then 30fps.

COD2 demo....it was a little harder on my machine, but i could run it at 10x7 with medium settings and never got below 30fps, couldn't do 16x12 low settings.


Quote:
BTW: Your CPU runs at 1.8ghz and no DC. You seem to be proving my point above that even a Barton 2500 @ 1.8ghz (with DC, worth another 3-5% performance) isn't a bottleneck.


you are an idiot, Look at the cpu comparison guide because for Doom3 the top CPU get 96fps with a 6800GT, my 2800+ gets 80, and a 1.8Ghz barton gets 60....your right...i guess a barton doesn't bottleneck at all....the extra 36fps ie because someone cheated....not because the cpu was giving more info to the gpu.

You are an idiot if you think a 2500+ Barton would run ANY GAME ON THE PLANET with a 6800GT the same as my 2800+ A64 let alone a FX55/57 at 10x7 meduim settings.



Like i said before a million times and you said as well...for overall gaming a better gpu and a lower cpu is better then the other way around. BUT AGP isn't dead and frnakly if you can get a X850 for 300bucks, and 200 for that comobo, you will have a very very solid gaming machine for 2years....easy.


WHEN YOU QUOTE ME USE THE QUOTE FUNCTION
November 15, 2005 11:28:17 PM

oh, is a X800XL 256mb PCIe for 129.99 a good deal then?
November 15, 2005 11:34:05 PM

Quote:
you are an idiot, Look at the cpu comparison guide because for Doom3 the top CPU get 96fps with a 6800GT, my 2800+ gets 80, and a 1.8Ghz barton gets 60....your right...i guess a barton doesn't bottleneck at all....the extra 36fps ie because someone cheated....not because the cpu was giving more info to the gpu.

Woh...calm down dude..
I think what he meant by that, is....ok true, the extra 36fps is quite big difference for Program, but for human eyes, the difference is almost invisible..
November 15, 2005 11:38:30 PM

Quote:
you are an idiot, Look at the cpu comparison guide because for Doom3 the top CPU get 96fps with a 6800GT, my 2800+ gets 80, and a 1.8Ghz barton gets 60....your right...i guess a barton doesn't bottleneck at all....the extra 36fps ie because someone cheated....not because the cpu was giving more info to the gpu.

Woh...calm down dude..
I think what he meant by that, is....ok true, the extra 36fps is quite big difference for Program, but for human eyes, the difference is almost invisible..

but when you have 96fps you can go a res setting higher and turn some more junk on.

True nobody is going to notice the difference between 60-96, but if i changed from 10x7 to 16x12 both on the same medium settings....you would notice a difference.

Its not about that setting....but about what that card could do to add the glitter to the game.
November 15, 2005 11:39:12 PM

Quote:
oh, is a X800XL 256mb PCIe for 129.99 a good deal then?


VERY good price for that card, great deal
November 16, 2005 2:39:14 AM

how bout 199.99 or X850XT platnium? is is worth it to spend the extra $70 to go from x800 to x850? sry im stupid. cuz my cpu is very bad (P4 519 at 3.06Ghz) so i wanna make it up in the GPU when i play hl2
November 16, 2005 4:38:56 AM

Wow, where are you getting those ati prices? They are quite cheap... cheap enough I want to get in even with my agp 6800 ultra since I plan on moving to pci express soon.
November 16, 2005 4:39:30 AM

sorry, double post.
November 16, 2005 5:18:59 PM

With all of that said, to answer the initial post, it seems like ur saying the cpu with more effective features is the better route to go.

And which socket do u think that would come from?
November 16, 2005 6:11:43 PM

Quote:
But there are still people playing games with 9800pros right now....how old are those? 5years?


Quote:
a 9600XT....which is about 8years old


I'm not trying to dog on you but neither of those cards are anywhere near as old as you claim. They're also both about the same age. Stop and think for a second... what kind of graphics did YOUR computer have back in 1997? By the end of 1997 an Nvidia Riva 128 was still pretty good. And 5 years ago in 2000 the original Radeon and the GeForce2 were new... so no... my 9800Pro is not 5 years old.



Anyway... I did a bit of homework and put together a system with a s939 mobo, 3500, x800xl, and 1GB Dual Channel PC3200 for $578
I used an Asus board, a Saphire card, and Corsair ValueSelect Memory.
November 16, 2005 6:33:10 PM

pickxx

this all getting off-track in terms of things for the OP to consider

To summarize;

1) IMHO, AGP comes with a price premium TODAY. So any savings by purchasing a "bargin" skt754 AGP system are likely illusory. May even end up spending more due to price premium on AGP cards.

Sadly, may not ever be any decent AGP upgrades in the future. Since posting yesterday I see that the reports announcing an X1800 series in AGP are untrue/erroneous.

Myself having an AGP system now, and agonizing over the predicament it puts me in, am trying to warn the OP away from finding himself in same unfortunate situation.

2) A kick-a33 CPU is unneccessary for gaming. Again, CPU bottlenecks kickin only at low rez's. I bring this up because if the OP thinks an equivilent PCIe system will break his budget he can go for a cheaper CPU, doesn't need a 3700+ for pushing the gfx card.
November 16, 2005 7:32:34 PM

sry, i didn't read between the line,

U ONLY GET THOSE PRICE IF U BUY TWO CROSSFIRE CARD FROM TIGER.*they r rebated price

my fault, if u have some extra money, buy two and sell one on ebay cuz the price is like 100 off the retail

x800xl = 129.99*
x850xt pe = 199.99*
x800gt = 165.99 no extra purchase required
x800gto= 184.99 no extra purchase required

hope this clears thing up
November 16, 2005 7:50:41 PM

Ahh, so you gotta buy a $230 X800XL and then another special 'crossfire edition' (sounds like price is gonna be pretty inflated) to get a $100 rebate. So essientially if you estimate the aditional C.E. card at $250ish, you will be paying $380 after rebate for 2 X800xls. $190 each isn't that great a price.
November 16, 2005 7:56:29 PM

Now i'll go off topic just to better understand.

Since CPU is used in games for AI, physics and running the scripts. How do we determine which part of the Benchmark causes a video card to be more bottlenecked then another.

Damn, i just thought about it, eventhough i'd sort of like an answer but i guess it wouldn't matter since in a single benchmark all tasks are the same no matter how many times u run it. Thus no matter which cpu u take it will be asked the same task. And if a video card is better on one cpu then another then we know which cpu can't handle that task very well.

So let me refocuse my question and ask What part of a cpu (and other components other than video card if need be) do we consider the most to cause less of a bottleneck if any, on a video card?
November 16, 2005 8:33:50 PM

they r from tiger, but u hav to buy two corssfire card to get the rebate=*

u can buy two and sell one on ebay, still a good deal i think

x800xl* 129.99
x850xt pe* 199.99
!