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FS9 helicopters. How to run throttle and collective of sep..

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Anonymous
March 2, 2005 9:07:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4 for
independent throttle adjustment.

Thanks,

Si
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:47:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 04vdl$faq$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:07:48 -0000

> Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
> throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4 for
> independent throttle adjustment.
>
> Thanks,

Interesting question Simon! I've never flown a full size helicopter, except under FS (boB has though). Although I have flown RC helicopters and the ability to change collective is really important.

As if the collective (head speed) is too low, it will hover okay, but it will dive as soon as you move no matter what you do. Too fast (low pitch, little collective with high throttle) handles well except it heats up the engine and one mishap is far worse when you hit the ground.

Although I am curious about why you want to change the defaults under FS? As maybe I can fly better than I am doing today.

Bill
Anonymous
March 2, 2005 11:55:02 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

While it's probably possible, if you are flying the Robinson R-22, it won't
help you.

The R-22 has a throttle governor that automatically controls engine RPM's.


"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:8DpVd.5297$DW.3470@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 04vdl$faq$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:07:48 -0000

> Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
> throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4
for
> independent throttle adjustment.
>
> Thanks,

Interesting question Simon! I've never flown a full size helicopter, except
under FS (boB has though). Although I have flown RC helicopters and the
ability to change collective is really important.

As if the collective (head speed) is too low, it will hover okay, but it
will dive as soon as you move no matter what you do. Too fast (low pitch,
little collective with high throttle) handles well except it heats up the
engine and one mishap is far worse when you hit the ground.

Although I am curious about why you want to change the defaults under FS? As
maybe I can fly better than I am doing today.

Bill
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Anonymous
March 3, 2005 1:17:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:D 04vdl$faq$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
> throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4
for
> independent throttle adjustment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Si
>
>

Yes, this is possible..

it's tied to the same axis as "propellor pitch" (for airplanes)
so whatever axis you set to that in the joystick config will control the
throttle on the helio


I don't think it behaves properly tho,.. it may just regulate the value that
the rpm is goverened at... it definitly does something thou. and it is
possible to kill yourself with full collective and zero throttle.
it behaves a bit erratic tho.





--
**********
shu
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 2:01:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I have a feeling that while I had known what I was talking about, others probably don't and I feel I should revise this before some else does.

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message news:8DpVd.5297$DW.3470@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

> As if the collective (head speed) is too low, it will hover okay,

What I meant to say is if the pitch of the blades is too high (high collective) in regards to the RPM speed of the main blades, this will be the result.

Bill
March 3, 2005 2:58:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

BillW50 wrote:

> "Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 04vdl$faq$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2005 18:07:48 -0000
>
>
>>Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
>>throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4 for
>>independent throttle adjustment.
>>
>>Thanks,
>
>
> Interesting question Simon! I've never flown a full size helicopter, except under FS (boB has though). Although I have flown RC helicopters and the ability to change collective is really important.
>
> As if the collective (head speed) is too low, it will hover okay, but it will dive as soon as you move no matter what you do. Too fast (low pitch, little collective with high throttle) handles well except it heats up the engine and one mishap is far worse when you hit the ground.
>
> Although I am curious about why you want to change the defaults under FS? As maybe I can fly better than I am doing today.
>
> Bill
>


I think he meant using a second controller to adjust the collective
only. Putting the word "throttle" in there probably meant all in one.

What controllers do you use Simon? I have a Sidewinder joy stick and it
has a throttle lever built into the base. I also use my CH Yoke when
flying helicopters and it has a throttle (collective) lever on top.

If you are talking about a separate control to use only for the
collective I would imaging you would want something like the Saitek
Throttle. If you are asking about something else please ask again.



--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
March 3, 2005 5:53:36 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message news:D qsVd.7720$SE2.3173@fe2.texas.rr.com...
Date: Wed, 02 Mar 2005 23:58:27 GMT

> I think he meant using a second controller to adjust the collective
> only. Putting the word "throttle" in there probably meant all in one.

Hi boB... My first post was sort of misleading. The second post helped a bit I believe. But since I know RC heli terminology better than real heli stuff, I like to ask you some questions.

Now in RC heli, collective and main rotor pitch is generally thought of one in the same. Oddly enough, they (in RC talk) generaly use the pitch statement for setting things up correctly and then switch over to using the term collective when it is set right. Which is a bit confusing if you ask me.

One reason to say pitch instead of collective is that pitch can be negative, while I've never heard of collective of being so. Have you? This is useful for inverted and 3D flying in RC flying by the way.

Although in RC talk, the pitch (collective) is mixed together as one in what RC talk calls normal mode. And in normal mode we see a curve with both throttle and collective (with computerized transmitters anyway). And we can change that curve as well if we want to.

But in 3D mode, meaning that the main blades can move both positive and negative (positive and negative collective), we keep the throttle pretty much constant (the throttle control is now mostly turned into a collecive control) and just change the pitch of the main rotor blades. Well not exactly, as we still use the curve and mixing to adjust. But anywhere besides zero or near zero on the pitch, the throttle is pretty much set at some premium RPM value. That's the default, although you can change it of course.

So are you following me so far? If so, how is this different from what you know?

Bill
March 3, 2005 7:05:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

BillW50 wrote:


> Hi boB... My first post was sort of misleading. The second post
> helped a bit I believe. But since I know RC heli terminology better
> than real heli stuff, I like to ask you some questions.
>

Hi Bill. I won't lie, it's hard to hold concentration throughout the
post but I'll try.


> Now in RC heli, collective and main rotor pitch is generally thought
> of one in the same. Oddly enough, they (in RC talk) generaly use the
> pitch statement for setting things up correctly and then switch over
> to using the term collective when it is set right. Which is a bit
> confusing if you ask me.
>
> One reason to say pitch instead of collective is that pitch can be
> negative, while I've never heard of collective of being so. Have you?
> This is useful for inverted and 3D flying in RC flying by the way.


"Collective pitch" is a correct term when teaching any maneuver which
requires movement of the collective. ie Autorotation or fixed pedal
emergencies to remember a couple.


When replacing rotor blades the test pilot had to place the PC Links at
a nominal setting to begin with. The aircraft is run-up and the blade
tracking is checked along with making sure the torque is showing
correctly for a rotor system at flat pitch. There is just a tiny bit of
negative pitch at the root of the rotor blades but it's inconsequential.
The real test is after all the work is done and the test pilot has had
his midday snack, (Pot of coffee and a bowl of cigarettes) the aircraft
is flown to check for vibrations and more important, where the rotor RPM
settles when the throttle is cut, collective down, flat pitch.

You can imagine, flat pitch where there is too much pitch in the blades
will cause the rotor RPM to decay after an engine failure. Most pilots
wouldn't like that. On the other hand, if the RPM increases at flat
pitch it can cause other, sometimes worse problems.


>
> Although in RC talk, the pitch (collective) is mixed together as one
> in what RC talk calls normal mode. And in normal mode we see a curve
> with both throttle and collective (with computerized transmitters
> anyway). And we can change that curve as well if we want to.
>
> But in 3D mode, meaning that the main blades can move both positive
> and negative (positive and negative collective), we keep the throttle
> pretty much constant (the throttle control is now mostly turned into
> a collecive control) and just change the pitch of the main rotor
> blades. Well not exactly, as we still use the curve and mixing to
> adjust. But anywhere besides zero or near zero on the pitch, the
> throttle is pretty much set at some premium RPM value. That's the
> default, although you can change it of course.


Sorry Bill, my brain won't comprehend that paragraph. I'll keep reading
it until I get it. Someone a few messages ago stated correctly that
throttle is maintained with a governor and collective movements do the
pitch changing. The governor holds the RPM constant.

>
> So are you following me so far? If so, how is this different from
> what you know?
>
> Bill
>
>

I hope I got most of it. :)  An after-thought. I commented some time
ago that the sim helicopter has a bad problem with the pitch settings.
Lowering the collective full down after shutting the engine down will
cause the rotor RPM to decay. To maintain proper rotor RPM requires a
small increase of the collective.

--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:07:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"shu" <washu@hiwaay.net> wrote in message
news:3b158$42268fe4$18d6c3f0$24080@KNOLOGY.NET...
> Yes, this is possible..
>
> it's tied to the same axis as "propellor pitch" (for airplanes)
> so whatever axis you set to that in the joystick config will control the
> throttle on the helio

Thanks, I'll give it a go.

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:17:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:8DpVd.5297$DW.3470@newssvr17.news.prodigy.com...

> Interesting question Simon! I've never flown a full size helicopter,
except under FS (boB has though). Although I have flown
> RC helicopters and the ability to change collective is really important.

> As if the collective (head speed) is too low, it will hover okay, but it
will dive as soon as you move no matter what you do.
> Too fast (low pitch, little collective with high throttle) handles well
except it heats up the engine and one mishap is far worse
> when you hit the ground.

> Although I am curious about why you want to change the defaults under FS?
As maybe I can fly better than I am doing today.

Ok. The reason I need to do this is because the procedure for a practice
auto-rotation is to chop the throttle. (I'm taking my CPL heli licence
later this year.)

In an r/c heli (without govenor fitted) your pitch is controlled with the
collective and the stick also has a curve mapped to adjust the engine
throttle to overcome torque loading and keep the head speed up. This is
not the same as a govenor in the R-22 for example, which actively monitors
head speed and adjusts the throttle to maintain it. (If you do a fast
cyclic turn in an r/c heli unless you have cyclic-throttle mixing on aswell
then your head speed will drop regardless because you've not made any
collective change.)

In FS9 the R-22's govenor can be turned off, which allows the pilot to
manuallt adjust the throttle as well as the collective. The real-thing also
allows minor pilot corrections on top of what the govenor is trying to do.
FS9's throttle axis controls the collective only. The software then
simulates a govenor to modulate the throttle. You can control it using the
keyboard (try ctrl+f1 to f4. But I want to be able to map it to a seperate
axis, like a dial-wheel on my Saitek throttle.

Regards,

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:23:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:NArVd.9634$1V5.8912@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> What I meant to say is if the pitch of the blades is too high (high
collective) in regards to the RPM speed of the main blades,
> this will be the result.

It may be possible in a badly trimmed machine to hover with higher than
normal collective pitch, but it is very inefficient, as your lift/drag ratio
will be sub-optimal requiring greater than required torque.

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:28:17 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:D qsVd.7720$SE2.3173@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> I think he meant using a second controller to adjust the collective
> only. Putting the word "throttle" in there probably meant all in one.

Correct. Or more precisely using a second controller axis to adjust throttle
only.

> What controllers do you use Simon? I have a Sidewinder joy stick and it
> has a throttle lever built into the base. I also use my CH Yoke when
> flying helicopters and it has a throttle (collective) lever on top.
>
> If you are talking about a separate control to use only for the
> collective I would imaging you would want something like the Saitek
> Throttle. If you are asking about something else please ask again.

I have a Saitek X45, which has a hotas throttle quadrant I use for
collective. It also has two thumb wheels that I'd like to map one to
throttle as a kind of override. As it is, using the keys (ctrl+F1 for full
closed) is the only way I know to properly simulate an engine out landing in
FS9's Jetranger.

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 082po$non$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:23:49 -0000

> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:NArVd.9634$1V5.8912@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > What I meant to say is if the pitch of the blades is too high (high
> collective) in regards to the RPM speed of the main blades,
> > this will be the result.
>
> It may be possible in a badly trimmed machine to hover with higher than
> normal collective pitch, but it is very inefficient, as your lift/drag ratio
> will be sub-optimal requiring greater than required torque.
>
> Si

Indeed! Although I see this a lot in electric RC helis. As my guess is that they try their best to save electrical power from the battery and thus use low head speed (low main blade speed coupled with high collective -- great pitch to give you the maximum lift). It is indeed interesting to fly under these conditions. An it takes a lot of talent to do so.

Bill
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:49:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:Q_uVd.9663$_A6.5512@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Now in RC heli, collective and main rotor pitch is generally thought of
one in the same. Oddly enough, they (in RC talk)
> generaly use the pitch statement for setting things up correctly and then
switch over to using the term collective when it is set
> right. Which is a bit confusing if you ask me.

Collective is as it says: it *collectively* raises the pitch on each blade
together. So, you could argue that pitch is the resultant movement caused
by the collective control. I've never encountered a confusion in the r/c
world as you describe in the setup. "Setting the pitch" is often applied to
an adjustment to blades individually though, whereas "collective adjustment"
would probably apply soley to the collective servo linkage or radio setup
curves.

> One reason to say pitch instead of collective is that pitch can be
negative, while I've never heard of collective of being so.
> Have you? This is useful for inverted and 3D flying in RC flying by the
way.

I think you're introducing confusing terminology. There is no substitute
for the term "collective pitch". Individual blade pitch can be altered by
either cyclic or collective pitch movement, or by external aerodynamic
forces. Don't get confused by "the collective" which in a full-size refers
to the collective pitch control lever and "collective pitch" which is the
resultant action. And there's no reason why collective pitch couldn't go
negative in a full-size helicopter, but that would exert a negative G
loading on the rotor system which could be potentially dangerous and you'd
be begging for a boom-strike. Full-sized machines aren't as rigid in
construction and as forgiving of the laws of physics as their r/c
counterparts.

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:52:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:w2wVd.9242$SE2.7873@fe2.texas.rr.com...
> Sorry Bill, my brain won't comprehend that paragraph. I'll keep reading
> it until I get it. Someone a few messages ago stated correctly that
> throttle is maintained with a governor and collective movements do the
> pitch changing. The governor holds the RPM constant.

Essentially, what he's saying is that for a given pitch curve in relation to
control stick position you can set a number of pitch servo positions. (For
example, a linear throw might be 0,25,50,75,100% to take collective pitch
from -1 to +9 degrees). Also mapped to the control stick is a throttle
curve, which can be adjusted to add extra power to compensate for high
torque loading in high pitch conditions. (i.e. 5,40,60,80,100% might map
well to the previous pitch settings, spooling up the engine to hover speed
around mid stick and increasing to max power at high collective pitch
settings.)
3D flying allows an r/c helicopter to hover upside-down, etc. So the range
of pitch will go maybe -9,0,+9 degrees, and the throttle curve will match
it, adding power at either end of the control stick's range to compensate.
(Control centre position is 0 degrees, rather than nomal hover position.)
There is no throttle idle in this mode, so the two modes are switched on the
transmitter, which simply switches between different sets of pre-programmed
curves.

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 1:56:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:GkMVd.9787$C_.6480@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> Indeed! Although I see this a lot in electric RC helis. As my guess is
that they try their best to save electrical power from the
> battery and thus use low head speed (low main blade speed coupled with
high collective -- great pitch to give you the
> maximum lift). It is indeed interesting to fly under these conditions. An
it takes a lot of talent to do so.

That would be a false economy, since flying above the ideal pitch angle
reduces the lift/drag ratio, increasing drag, which will require more torque
to compensate. I would expect them to fly longer with a higher head speed
and lower pitch, meaning more optimal l/d ratio. By the way, if you really
want to learn a lot about heli aerodynamics, read "Principles of Helicopter
Flight, by W.J. Wagtendonk.)

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 2:09:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 082eb$nek$1$8302bc10@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:17:44 -0000

> Ok. The reason I need to do this is because the procedure for a practice
> is to chop the throttle. (I'm taking my CPL heli licence
> later this year.)

Okay Simon... Well for starters, I still stink at auto-rotation! It's something that I don't practice enough to get good enough there. But even so, you can always kill the engine. I believe this is toggled with the "K" key.

> In an r/c heli (without govenor fitted) your pitch is controlled with the
> collective and the stick also has a curve mapped to adjust the engine
> throttle to overcome torque loading and keep the head speed up. This is
> not the same as a govenor in the R-22 for example, which actively monitors
> head speed and adjusts the throttle to maintain it. (If you do a fast
> cyclic turn in an r/c heli unless you have cyclic-throttle mixing on aswell
> then your head speed will drop regardless because you've not made any
> collective change.)
>
> In FS9 the R-22's govenor can be turned off, which allows the pilot to
> manuallt adjust the throttle as well as the collective. The real-thing also
> allows minor pilot corrections on top of what the govenor is trying to do.
> FS9's throttle axis controls the collective only. The software then
> simulates a govenor to modulate the throttle. You can control it using the
> keyboard (try ctrl+f1 to f4. But I want to be able to map it to a seperate
> axis, like a dial-wheel on my Saitek throttle.

Well even so, the main reason to get good at auto-rotation is in case the engine fails! And the best practice that I know of is actually killing the engine. I don't know if this helps you or not. But this is the best that I know of. Although if you know of a better way, I'd really like to hear about it.

Bill
March 4, 2005 2:12:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Simon Robbins wrote:

> "boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
> news:D qsVd.7720$SE2.3173@fe2.texas.rr.com...
>
>>I think he meant using a second controller to adjust the collective
>>only. Putting the word "throttle" in there probably meant all in one.
>
>
> Correct. Or more precisely using a second controller axis to adjust throttle
> only.
>

> I have a Saitek X45, which has a hotas throttle quadrant I use for
> collective. It also has two thumb wheels that I'd like to map one to
> throttle as a kind of override. As it is, using the keys (ctrl+F1 for full
> closed) is the only way I know to properly simulate an engine out landing in
> FS9's Jetranger.
>
> Si
>
>

I think I see now. Having a separate control which reduces the throttle
only. In the autos I practice I just turn off the fuel valve. The
engine quits. But even with shutting the engine down the auto rotation
maneuver is still not near the real thing. One thing I do get out of
them is trying to make a certain field or road and make sure everything
is within limits.-- rotor RPM, airspeed, etc.

Here are some autos I shot some time ago showing some of the inaccuracies.

http://flightsims.vze.com/autorotation
--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 2:24:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:jOMVd.9798$K41.2257@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...

> Well even so, the main reason to get good at auto-rotation is in case the
engine fails! And the best practice that I know of is
> actually killing the engine. I don't know if this helps you or not. But
this is the best that I know of. Although if you know of a
> better way, I'd really like to hear about it.

If you use ctrl+f1 and f4 to toggle between throttle to idle and to max,
then you can recover if you loose too much head speed. (within limits.)
Killing the engine basically means you're committed!

Si
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 3:05:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 084ng$jk7$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 22:56:45 -0000

> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:GkMVd.9787$C_.6480@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> > Indeed! Although I see this a lot in electric RC helis. As my guess is
> that they try their best to save electrical power from the
> > battery and thus use low head speed (low main blade speed coupled with
> high collective -- great pitch to give you the
> > maximum lift). It is indeed interesting to fly under these conditions. An
> it takes a lot of talent to do so.
>
> That would be a false economy, since flying above the ideal pitch angle
> reduces the lift/drag ratio, increasing drag, which will require more torque
> to compensate. I would expect them to fly longer with a higher head speed
> and lower pitch, meaning more optimal l/d ratio. By the way, if you really
> want to learn a lot about heli aerodynamics, read "Principles of Helicopter
> Flight, by W.J. Wagtendonk.)

I have to admit Simon... I *love* the way that you think.

Bill
Anonymous
March 4, 2005 3:43:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 086cd$jco$1$830fa7a5@news.demon.co.uk...
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2005 23:24:58 -0000

> "BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
> news:jOMVd.9798$K41.2257@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
>
> > Well even so, the main reason to get good at auto-rotation is in case the
> engine fails! And the best practice that I know of is
> > actually killing the engine. I don't know if this helps you or not. But
> this is the best that I know of. Although if you know of a
> > better way, I'd really like to hear about it.
>
> If you use ctrl+f1 and f4 to toggle between throttle to idle and to max,
> then you can recover if you loose too much head speed. (within limits.)

That's good to know for sure. Although what happens when you change the collective (and the throttle as it is mixed)? Does the throttle also kick in?

> Killing the engine basically means you're committed!

That's the whole reason to practice autorotation anyway. As (in real life) you have (most likely) one shot to do it right and if you don't, you failed (and most likely dead if you did so badly)! Thus the game is over and the end of the story.

Bill
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 4:21:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"BillW50" <BillW50@aol.kom> wrote in message
news:xaOVd.9819$xj1.3314@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com...
> That's the whole reason to practice autorotation anyway. As (in real life)
you have (most likely) one shot to do it right and if
> you don't, you failed (and most likely dead if you did so badly)! Thus the
game is over and the end of the story.

Granted, that with the sim it's not a life and death situation and killing
the engine is an acceptable procedure, but I'm looking to practice real-life
training procedure, where initially auto's are recovered above the ground
before the skids touch down by re-application of the throttle. Plus, in the
turbine heli's it's nice to start up the thing with the throttle at idle,
then bring the rotor up to speed with the throttle before lifting off. In a
running-rotor ddis/embarkment the throttle would be lowered like this. Have
a look at the AS350 model (you can get it from AvSim) and you'll see a
second level (yellow) next to the collective that allows you to do this with
the mouse. It just all adds to a more realistic experience...

Si
Anonymous
March 5, 2005 11:53:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Simon Robbins" <simon@NOSPAMsjrobbins.demon.co.uk> wrote in message news:D 04vdl$faq$1$8300dec7@news.demon.co.uk...
: Anyone know if it's possible to control the helicopter's collective and
: throttle from separate joystick axes? i.e. instead of uses Ctrl+F1 - F4 for
: independent throttle adjustment.
:
: Thanks,
:
: Si
:
You can do it with the stock Robinson. The FS collective is controlled by
the joystick throttle, and the FS engine throttle is controlled by the joystick
as prop pitch (whatever lever/knob/rotary you've assigned to prop pitch).
On the Robinson panel, select the button for the stick to appear, and turn off
the governor auto switch on top.
I use it on the ground for startup and shutdown, and if I just want to sit some
where with the engine idling and the main rotor stopped.
I should imagine that crash must be turned off to try mucking about with it
in the air....

Havaball.
Dave
!