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keyboard/mouse problem after post-SP6a hotfix (Q299444)

Last response: in Windows 2000/NT
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July 17, 2004 6:30:22 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

I successfully applied service pack 6a to my NT 4.0 box (Dell XPS R450
(Pentium II)), and then applied the post-SP6a hotfix from Q299444. NT
now comes up with a "one or more services failed, check the event log"
on startup, with no keyboard or mouse.

After a bit of googling, it seems that this could be a known issue
which might be alleviated by editing one or more registry keys
(HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\(mouclass|kbdclass|msi8042|i8042prt)\Start)
and setting the value to "1" (if set to "0" or "4" which apparently
disable the keyboard/mouse).

My problem is that the computer in question is not on a LAN (only
dial-up Internet access), does not have a working floppy drive (broken
for a while, haven't needed it recently), and the partitions are
NTFS-formatted except for a single FAT partition shared in dual-boot
setup with a RedHat Linux 5.1 install (from which I'm posting this
message).

Basically, what are my options re editing the registry on this
computer? So far I can think of:
1. install a new floppy drive, boot off it (if possible) using the
rescue disk, and edit the registry ;
2. install a new floppy drive, boot off it (if possible) to install
a "temp" version of Windows NT, edit the original registry file, then
revert to the original Window NT installation ;
3. physically remove the hard-drive containing the Windows NT
install, place it in another Windows box (a Windows2000 box?), edit
the registry file, then return the drive to the original box ;
4. or ...?

If (3) is plausible, do the Windows' registry tools allow an arbitrary
registry file to be edited (i.e. I'd want to edit the registry on
H:\WINNT\SYSTEM32\???? instead of the "real" one for that box)? Are
there other tools that allow that? Actually, what's the "filename" of
the Windows registry in NT 4.0?

Thanks in advance for any help/information/pointers.

--
Jim
July 18, 2004 2:19:16 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

Hi Jim,

Don't be so sure that your problem is registry settings for the start options
for the services concerned. In past I have seen this caused by the SRP placing
versions of the files involved on the system which are incompatible with the
existing (previously installed) mouse/keyboard driver files, leading to the
symptoms you describe - ie: the start settings are correct 1=automatic, but the
service can't start because it is physically incapable of doing so.

Regardless of the cause however, you are correct, by some means you will need
'offline' access to the NTFS formatted boot partition and/or registry to sort
this out.

WARNING: Under NO circumstances attempt a 'REPAIR' option using the NT4 install
CD/ERD etc... or try re-installing NT4 'over the top' of the existing
installation. Both actions will certainly destroy your existing NT4 installation
and guarantee you will have to reload everything from scratch :-(

I would suggest a parallel install would probably be your most viable option to
solve your problems. I suggest you read Knowledgebase articles:

244378 - System Cleanup After a Parallel Installation of Windows NT 4.0
259003 - How and Why to Perform a Parallel Installation of Windows NT 4.0

before attempting this.

I would not attempt placing the disk in a Win2k or later machine to make changes
unless you have no choices left. Win2k will convert the partitions to a later
version of NTFS the first time it sees them, which will cause you problems with
attempting to maintain them in future on the NT4 machine.

Hope this info helps.

Calvin.
Anonymous
July 18, 2004 2:19:17 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

On Sun, 18 Jul 2004 10:19:16 +1000, Calvin <nospam@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>Don't be so sure that your problem is registry settings for the start options
>for the services concerned. In past I have seen this caused by the SRP placing
>versions of the files involved on the system which are incompatible with the
>existing (previously installed) mouse/keyboard driver files, leading to the
>symptoms you describe - ie: the start settings are correct 1=automatic, but the
>service can't start because it is physically incapable of doing so.
>
>Regardless of the cause however, you are correct, by some means you will need
>'offline' access to the NTFS formatted boot partition and/or registry to sort
>this out.
>
>WARNING: Under NO circumstances attempt a 'REPAIR' option using the NT4 install
>CD/ERD etc... or try re-installing NT4 'over the top' of the existing
>installation. Both actions will certainly destroy your existing NT4 installation
>and guarantee you will have to reload everything from scratch :-(
>
>I would suggest a parallel install would probably be your most viable option to
>solve your problems. I suggest you read Knowledgebase articles:
>
>244378 - System Cleanup After a Parallel Installation of Windows NT 4.0
>259003 - How and Why to Perform a Parallel Installation of Windows NT 4.0
>
>before attempting this.
>
>I would not attempt placing the disk in a Win2k or later machine to make changes
>unless you have no choices left. Win2k will convert the partitions to a later
>version of NTFS the first time it sees them, which will cause you problems with
>attempting to maintain them in future on the NT4 machine.
>
>Hope this info helps.
>
>Calvin.

Thank you very much for the information, especially for the Win2k warnings
re NTFS versions. I did find an article in the KnowledgeBase (305462)
which describes my symptoms, and ascribes it to an incorrect msi8042.sys
driver which s/b replaced by i8042prt.sys (much like you described).

That article offers two options:
1. doing a parallel install ;
2. booting from a Win2k CD and using the "Recovery Console" (Q229716).

Re (2), would you expect issues re NTFS versions using the
Win2k Recovery Console, too? I guess I'd expect it, as
for this to work I eventually have to write to the NTFS partition to
rename/move the .sys files.

For (1) I'd have to install a new floppy drive (as my current one is hosed)
but that shouldn't be too painful, I guess.

Thanks again.

--
Jim
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July 18, 2004 8:26:19 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

Hi Jim,

Don't have a lot of experience with recovery console - I think you would
probably get away with it not 'fiddling' with your NTFS partitions, but may be
worth seeking more informed opinions before attempting it :-)

A parallel install is probably the safest option - as you said tho, it will need
a working floppy first :-(

Calvin.
Anonymous
July 20, 2004 6:32:25 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

In article <40fa1808@duster.adelaide.on.net>, Calvin <nospam@spamcop.net> wrote:
>Hi Jim,
>
>Don't have a lot of experience with recovery console - I think you would
>probably get away with it not 'fiddling' with your NTFS partitions, but may be
>worth seeking more informed opinions before attempting it :-)
>
>A parallel install is probably the safest option - as you said tho, it will
> need
>a working floppy first :-(
>
>Calvin.

Thanks again for your help. I ended up going with the parallel install option
after finding a bootable NT 4.0 CD. Things went pretty much as the Knowledge
Base articles said re the parallel install itself and the renaming of the
original install's msi8042.sys file.

Things seem to be back to normal, and I'll probably leave the parallel install
on in case I ever need something like it again.

--
Jim
July 21, 2004 1:52:09 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

Hi Jim,

I know quite a lot of people who have taken your decision and left a 'parallel
install' permanently in place on the machine - it does provide a handy back
door. I would suggest you make sure that this parallel install is updated with
Service Packs, hotfixes etc... The last thing you would want is the situation
where using the parallel install makes your vulnerable to new problems. I
actually have my parallel install on a removable media drive, so it is only
accessable when the media is inserted in the drive, and I deliberately did not
load any network drivers, so the machine lives in isolation from the rest of the
world whilst this copy of NT4 is running.

Glad you managed to solve your keyboard/mouse situation. That particular problem
has been the undoing of more than one person here in past :-(

Calvin.
Anonymous
August 8, 2004 5:15:01 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

> Things seem to be back to normal, and I'll probably leave the parallel
install
> on in case I ever need something like it again.

Glad to read that you managed to sort this nightmare out.

For future reference, a couple of tips that you might find useful.

1) Because of this kind of problem, I _always_ partition every installation
so that I have a second (D:)  partition of size ~2GB. In the event of a
disaster, I can do a parallel installation into that D: for repair purposes.
It's cleaner and safer.

In fact, I do make use of the D: partition - its not just a waste of disk
space. I place the page file in it, and I also locate the Internet Explorer
"Temporary Internet Files" in there, which improves performance by
controlling fragmentation and makes backups much easier. All these can be
simply deleted to make space before a disaster recovery.

2) (I’ve not used this under NT4.0, but) If you had access to another
machine over a LAN, using the Remote Registry service might have been helpful.

3) Make sure to get hold of a bootable NT4 setup CD that _incorporates_ at
least SP4, since NT4SP4+ has enhanced NTFS (Q192673, Q184299) support, and
support for large IDE drives.

Q - Recovery console: I don't know off-hand whether the NT5.x (Windows
2000/Xp/Server2003) Recovery Console performs "upgrades" on NTFS4 volumes or
not, but it would be good to know.

Regards,

Cecil Ward.
!