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Which is the best monitor?

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  • Flat Panel Monitors
  • Graphics Cards
  • Monitors
  • Peripherals
Last response: in Computer Peripherals
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Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 7, 2002 1:31:07 PM

Hello guys! I think the best monitor is Sony F520. But I want to know from you all if some flat monitor is better than this one and, evenutually, why. In particular I'm an hard gamer but a designer too, so I need the best one monitor on the Earth. No matter the weight or dimension, I just want the top notch. What do you think? (my video card is an Asus GeForcePro 64MB DDR, without digital port, but i can change video card if needed).

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January 7, 2002 6:37:26 PM

Well are u looking for an LCD, or just a flat CRT?

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 8, 2002 6:02:08 AM

I'm looking for the best quality monitor, no matter if it is LCD or CRT.
Related resources
January 8, 2002 1:37:58 PM

man...u've got to choose...a CRT or LCD...both are entirely different...and comparing those two classes in quality is impossible...
its like if your question was...i want the best quality vehicle to drive around in....car? truck? bus? van?
January 8, 2002 1:45:59 PM

Well LCD is sharper, and one w/ great specs would be as good as a CRT. Also, they are less strenuous for teh eyes, meaning you can sit in front of comp longer.

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 8, 2002 1:56:35 PM

What proof do you have that LCD's are less stressful on the eyes. Any study you can point us to or is this just your opinion?

Also I would argue that CRT’s are sharper do to the tighter dot/pixel pitch.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 8, 2002 9:18:51 PM

I find LCD's to be sharper. As for the eye thing, they don't refresh, and when I turn on an LCD, it doesn't illuminate my entire room like CRT, hence less excess light. I find that for my eyes, I can stare at an LCD all day and not feel anythin...where as CRT my eyes feel wierd.

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 8, 2002 9:32:51 PM

So this is your opinion not based on any scientific fact or study. I find CRT’s sharper, I use a variety of monitors every day, both LCD and CRT. For sharpness, give me a CRT monitor any day.

LCD’s on average are twice as bright as an equivalent CRT, so I do not understand your point on excess light.

I also can use my 21” CRT monitor all day without any problems, so what does that prove? Maybe it is simply that you have never used a good CRT monitor or simply that everyone’s eyes are different.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 8, 2002 9:38:44 PM

Possibly, but what's ur take on the refresh rate issue?

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 8, 2002 9:55:46 PM

Most CRT monitors have the capability of refreshing at 85Hz+ at their optimal resolution. The VESA committee has adopted 85Hz as the standard refresh rate. It is also noted in at least two books (Visual Stress by Arnold Wilkins at Oxford) and (Handbook of Display Technology by Dr. Joseph Castelleno). I do not see an issue with refresh rates as long as the user runs 85Hz +.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 8, 2002 9:59:34 PM

While it would be difficult to design a study quantifying 'eyestrain' it would likely drive a few customers into the arms of LCD makers.

Certainly most LCD users report less fatigue as a significant portion of their experience. I don't think gosharks can deny that a cathode ray gun shooting in your face while it redraws an image sixty times a second is more interpretive 'work' for your central nervous system than passively observing a static (albeit backlit) image.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
January 8, 2002 10:08:44 PM

Od.., I can still see the monitor flicker when it's at 100Hz. Guess the books are wrong.

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 8, 2002 10:12:06 PM

KeeWee
I would believe you if you can point me to some data to back up your point.

Also CRT monitors use leaded glass. There are also no known studies that I now of that say there is any affect at all. If you are concerned you should read the following article written by IBM.

http://www.pc.ibm.com/ww/healthycomputing/vdt14.html

I’m simply trying to prove a point. Many people make claims in these forums without any scientific background to back up their statements. Also don’t believe everything you read on the Internet, you may be talking to a 14 year old high school student. No offence Flame.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com&lt;P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by GoSharks on 01/08/02 04:13 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
January 8, 2002 10:18:12 PM

Flame

As you get older your eyes will change, sensitivity to flicker will also reduce, ask your optometrist. Again my point is everyone’s eyes are different.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / MOnitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 9, 2002 12:34:10 AM

GoSharks said

"I’m simply trying to prove a point. Many people make claims in these forums without any scientific background to back up their statements."

Yes, I get this part. And my point was that surely you ca see from a scientific perspective that the brain is required to do more work in interpreting an image that is being flashed 60+ times per second than one which is essentially static. Work = fatigue at some point.

Any maybe old eyes aren't as irritable as young eyes because they're just old and dull after watching so much CRT .. :)  Most of our other senses dull too - how depressing. Youth is wasted on the young!

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
January 9, 2002 12:51:22 AM

ay, I read that!

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 9, 2002 2:33:13 PM

I simply do not agree. Images are put on the screen at 85+ Hz, making the image appear to be static I.E. no flicker. I find it interesting that people can watch movies or television for hours without a problem and the refresh rates are much lower than 85Hz. Also you could make an argument that fluorescent lamps flickering at 60Hz would have the same affect.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 9, 2002 10:10:07 PM

What do u mean flourescent lights at 60Hz? Also, your brain may npot be able to process teh refresh, but ur eyes will see it...

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
January 9, 2002 11:12:16 PM

My bad! Sorry I ment 120Hz.
Older iron ballast fluorescent lamps operating from a 60Hz AC outlet will extinguish twice every cycle as the sinewave pass through zero producing a 120Hz flicker. To help reduce the flicker, new electronic ballast’s (basically switching power supply) with an integrated inverter/switcher operate the tubes at a higher frequency, reducing the 120 Hz flicker associated with iron ballast systems. On the down side, (there is always a trade off) a standard fluorescent lamp produces radio frequencies and harmonics, and the new ones with electronic ballast’s produce more of this kind of EMF than the older iron ballast’s.

Your flicker may be an indication of poor or failing backlight or an inverter problem. In either case the unit may need to be replaced, I hope its something else. Also remember that even the best products sometimes don’t perform as advertised.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 9, 2002 11:45:22 PM

Well, I called up Compaq, and they said what I am experiencing should not be. So, they gonna send a new LCD w/ a technician this time (hells yeah! Don't need to deal w/ UPS!!!!:) ), and he's gonna check everything out. The tech guy was gonna send me a new backlight, but they don't have it separatly for the TFT7020. I know u said u use a 21" CRT, but what YOUR personal opinion of LCD? I love mine....just that it's too bright (on my OLD CRT, I had it set to min) is there any way to this on an LCD?

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 10, 2002 3:12:01 AM

OK GoSharks, try this link http://www.youreyesite.com/eyestrain-4.htm
- it points out the difference between just a flickering light source and actually trying to focus on it. I would argue that people get eyestrain from TV as well, perhaps to a lesser extent since they sit further away and don't attempt to define the same level of detail from the screen.

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
January 11, 2002 6:55:00 AM

keewee,
You are absolutely correct and there should be no doubt in your mind about that.

Before you waste any more energy and time, please try to understand that GoShrarks has direct involvement in the CRT industry. He cannot, should not and will not let it down by no means. It is evident he is not an objective source to argue on this issue and as a matter of fact he would be a fool to saw the branch he is sitting on by putting down CRT technology.

He is prepared to carry that argument to the end, contriving enough smoke and mirrors to subtly distort bits and pieces of the publics common sense so as to condition people's minds to an alternate reality most confortable to the long term economics of his company.

This is flat out "Politics 101" (are you surprised?)

Much in the same way the Tabaco industry has been trying to convince us there is little scientific evidence that cigarettes are actually bad for your health.
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 11, 2002 8:51:39 AM

I must thanks you all for your point of view. It's very interesting, and no doubt that GoSharks could not be so objective, but if a not so recent CRT monitor like Sony F520 still costs $1500 (almost the double of any other 21" monitor, but it is again the best CRT) I think there will be a reason. Moreover the most part of CAD and architecture offices have again the CRT monitors.
However someone can say if some LCD monitor monitor is better than Sony F520, and why? And just a curiosity: on LCD monitors when you have a fast images scrolling you see all the motion correctly or it's like the old notebook? In other words LCD monitors are very good also for an hard player (I'm not one of them, but I like to play sometimes...)?
January 11, 2002 7:53:09 PM

Askitis

Political, No this is technology not politics. Debunking rumors and stereotypes yes! I base my opinion on sixteen plus years in the industry and this is a subject I pay close attention to. Also we carry LCD monitors as well as CRT’s so from a business point of view it makes no difference to me.

I do not hide behind aliases, I have nothing to hide and in fact I want everyone to know that yes I’m biased. I wonder how many representatives from other companies troll these forums preaching their agenda. Maybe you perhaps? We will never know until everyone stops hiding behind aliases.

I do not hide behind smoke and mirrors nor do I need to, I try when ever possible to site my references as opposed to all those who simply throw out opinions and judge people without knowing the facts.

I appreciate the link keewee sent from the optometrist. I add this to my knowledge base. Again with any article you must consider the source. The optometrist is trying to sell you glasses. BTW here is another site that talks about eyestrain.

http://www.drergo.com/

I’m not arguing that flicker causes eyestrain, that is a known fact. However rarely is a single issue the complete reason for eyestrain and this article talk about two others, brightness and ambient lighting and glare. From my experience these can have as much of an impact as flicker. Poorly designed workstations, uncalibrated equipment and low resolution, and the failure to take periodic breaks are a few others that can cause eyestrain.

Jim Witkowski
Chief Hardware Engineer
Cornerstone / Monitorsdirect.com

Jim at http://www.monitorsdirect.com
January 12, 2002 3:16:26 PM

That article (keewee's) stated that after a long time on front of monitor, one gets a "temporary/false" nearsightedness. How can one make this go away? I don't experience this, well, actually twice in the summer I spent about 8 hours in front of CRT nonstop, and when I went outside couldn't see anything..it was all blury. But aftr a few mins, my vision was back to normal 20/20. Odd.

My rice car will leave your R8500 in the dust!
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
January 13, 2002 11:35:58 AM

I agree with GoSharks here that it is difficult to find objective data on the topic of eyestrain. Its a very subjective experience. Some folks find blurrines in FPS games on slow LCDs, not bothersome at all - others are sensitive in the extreme on fast screens. My eyes hurt, yours feel fine - how can we quatify that?
Most people also want to justify their expensive purchases - who wants to shell out $1000-2000 and then say their monitor sucks? So everyone has personal spin.
GoSharks is not about to change world purchasing agendas with his comments on TH! And last I saw his company sold LCDs too.
As to 'what is the best monitor' - that's like what is the best car? There's a seat for every bum and a bum for every seat - but which one fits you?

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice; In practice, there is.
April 12, 2002 10:01:24 AM

Televisions have the advantage to be limited to one resolution. Therefor there is some kind of a mask, that makes an afterglow, so the image will flicker less - atleast so I am told. Also they reproduce the lines in cross (english is not my first language) they make: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, ... and then 2, 4, 6, 8, ... . I believe that is also for reducing the fell of flickering.
April 12, 2002 10:09:27 AM

I have the Eizo L365, and in my point of view, it (though one of the fastest around) is too slow for hardcore 3D gaming.
April 12, 2002 10:19:15 AM

There might be a way:
The Eizo L365 has some sort of compressor for the dynamic range. So, if your monitor is to bright even at the lowest brightness setting, you can turn down the contrast.

This is how it works - no matter, how brightness and contrast are set:
You push the button, and it adjusts the picture, so there is a difference between all the scaling points. The difference will just be bigger or smaller depending on your contrast setting. And it will leave your brightness setting as is too. I find it quite usefull. However keep in mind, my monitor is brand new, so I may change my mind as time goes by. But so far I like the feature.
April 12, 2002 10:20:50 AM

But I guess, your problem came fron a faulty monitor? I have read too many posts in this forum - cronology is getting messed up in my brain :) 
Anonymous
a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
April 12, 2002 2:39:40 PM

All I know is when I stare at a CRT for a long time, my head will hurt after awhile. When I stare a an LCD (I have a laptop at my apart.) even all day, I am fine. I know there is a difference, and I really don't care if there is scientific proof or not. I know there is some kind of difference there.

Look out for #1. Don't step in #2 either.
April 12, 2002 3:04:04 PM

I am not going to argue over that. I have not had my L365 for long enough time to be able to tell for shure, but untill now, my eyes are happy, wich they where not with my 5years old Eizo f67 CRT.
April 13, 2002 4:45:37 PM

I just want to say that you might be able to stare at a television all day long, but I bet you don't stare at one 2 ft away!!

I am sure there is not a test done on this, but just for fun, why don't we all get off our butt and move right in front of a television screen as close as what we normally be in front of a monitor, and see if we notice any flicker?
April 13, 2002 5:46:58 PM

See that's why I don't watch TV. I notice flicker, even from across the room. I even notice flicker right now on my Sony Multiscan 100sx @ 85Hz. I have had projects where I had to transfer comp video to TV, and as always some problem arises, so I end up sitting right in front of TV for a few hours- teh first time I transfered to TV I didn't have any software like adobe premiere, so I had to play a movie file, stop video, load next movie file, calculate how long before record, etc. This took a long time. My eyes were very bloodshot and I hurt liek hell- even teh nxt day. Moral of teh story- don't use TV that much. IMHO, LCD's are great in that they don't flicker, and I can't wait to go back to LCD when FFD comes out.

Sig of the week.
April 14, 2002 9:56:35 PM

There will be plenty of flicker. I have tested this out before. Just not as much, as if it was a PC monitor doing 50Hz.
Don't we all see flicker on a TV, if (wich is rare for the same reason) a completely white image turns up. I know people with 100Hz TVs ought not to suffer so much from it.
Now it beats me! When 100Hz televisions came out, there where complaints, that sounded like description of afterglow. My guess is, that they used the same as usual kind of mask, that is ment to produce afterglow.
!