Grrrr Chaintech = POS!?

[Kayden]

I'm building a gaming pc and the motherboard will not post. I tried it with just a CPU, RAM and video card and got no video. I ran it with just the CPU and got nothing. I reseated the CPU and it gave me a beep error- Good! I inserted ram and the video card and it POST'd- Freakin great!! I hooked everything up and got no error codes/video- Bad :x. I removed everything except the CPU again and got no error codes. I tried and empty board, I tried each stick alone. I tried the CPU with each stick. I didn't get a beep code at any time. The only thing I didn't do was upgrade the BIOS, but thats kinda hard to do when it wont even post. Any thoughts?

Everything is as follows-
CHAINTECH VNF4/Ultra Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 Ultra
ENERMAX Whisper II EG565P-VE PSU
OCZ Value Series 2GB RAM
AMD 64 |4200+ ATHLON X2 939P
eVGA 256-P2-N516 Geforce 7800GT

I'm thinking I need to RMA it, but I don't want to wait for another week to get my pc running. Is there anything you guys can think of?

A guy I work with said his friend tried to make a PC with a chaintech mobo and GPU and had to RMA each one THREE TIMES. (This would have been nice to know ahead of time.) Should I go for a replacement or get a refund?

If I get a refund, I was looking at getting one of the following.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813186037
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813131530

Any other recomendations? I don't want SLI, I want 2 PATA controllers, 4 SATA ports. Dual channel support would be nice.

 

[Rugger]

Di you try it with the mobo out of the case? Put it on a phonebook or something static free and try to boot like that. If this is a new build and first time trying to get her running, then it is either power or the mobo. No extra stanchions in the case that aren't being used?

 

[Kayden]

Are you stalking me? :lol:

There was only one mount left over, but then I could only find 7 holes in the mobo. There were little paper-ish washers that came with the case... wth are they for? The metal standoffs are to ground the board right? So you dont want them insulated with the washers...

Anyways, no I didn't try the board out of the case. Anything else I should keep in mind?

 

[Rugger]

So you dont want them insulated with the washers...

Yes you do want them - they are to prevent grounding of the mobo. Grounding would be caused by the mobo inadvertently touching the stanchions. Ground for the mobo is provided in the 20-24 pin power plug. It sounds like you have a grounding problem on the mobo. ANY unused stanchion should be removed from the case - install the

little paper-ish washers that came with the case

Try booting after you've done this and let us know...

 

[Kayden]

I was told the metal contacts were there incase there was a short, but now that I think about it... if there was a short, it would electrify the case... :?
I had to put all the stanchions in myself, so I only put them in where there was a hole in the mobo. As far as the washers go, I want one on top and on bottom since both the stanchion and the screw are metal, right?

Would you believe I'm A+ certified... 8O

I'm so ashamed.

So this raises a few questions...

One- why are the screw holes surrounded by metal?
Two- why did it still boot once?
Three- Will my noob move cause any damage?

 

[Rugger]

I'm pretty sure the metal sleeves are insulated. This could be an intermittent contact issue....when you stand on your left foot and grab your left nut with your right hand, the problem will occur...:laugh:

At this point, i would clear the CMOS, take the mobo out of the case and put it on the static free surface and try booting like that...

 

[Kayden]

ARG!

I took it out of the case. Wouldnt even give me fans this time. The power was loose. Got power... nothing. Stripped it except for the processor(no fan). Nothing. Rerereseated the processor, nothing.

Called Chaintech's support line. I tried to tell him what I was trying, but he essentially said shut up and do it my way. Put in the processor (I plugged in the fan but didnt actually mount it because its a beast to move) and video card with the extra power. The damn thing beeps. So he says shut it off and add ram. Do it and it posts... I let him go because I could handle testing the other components. I have the mobo sitting on the case on cardboard and boot it up. It runs post and says hit F1. I move to hit F1 and the screen dies. I power it up and it beeps and flashes post and then dies in about 5 seconds. I figure its just because its sitting funny and me moving is shaking the card or something. So I unplug everything and set I set the mobo in the chasis and reconnect the power and pci-e card and the memory. Nothing...

Take everything back out. Reposition everything so the mobo is out of the case on the cardboard and wont move. Reconnect power and the CPU- NOTHING. Reseat everything. Nothing. Add the video card- nothing. Add ram, nothing; other ram- still nothing.

When I was on the phone with the guy it posted like 5 times and as soon as I hang up it stops working...

 

[Rugger]

Are you sure you have all of the power connections to the mobo? Properly seated? Checked the connectors to make sure they are in good shape?

 

[Kayden]

Possitive. This isn't my first time assembling a PC. However, generally all the pieces are known to be working.

I'm pretty sure the ram and GPU are good. I'm not too sure about the PSU, CPU and mobo. Sometimes it'll post, sometimes it wont. I seldom get beep codes... I think it may be the CPU, but then again it could be the motherboard or a power issue. Should I return the mobo and PSU and get a better mother board? I have to contact AMD directly for the CPU.

 

[fishmahn]

Put in the processor (I plugged in the fan but didnt actually mount it because its a beast to move)

SAY WHAT!!!!!! :!:

I hope that does not mean what it sounds like it means. It takes a CPU today about 5 secs to overheat without the heatsink on it. When the CPU overheats, the mobo shuts down.

That could be your problem right there.

Mike.

 

[Kayden]

:?

I had the problem from the get go though... the CPU may be bad now too... but theres something else already wrong with it. -_-;;

 

[fishmahn]

From your explanation, you had it posting with the tech guy on the phone. That exercise may have fixed the original problem (maybe - can't know for sure). In any case I would definitely RMA the CPU and hope that the other problem doesn't resurface.

Mike.

 

[Kayden]

I can't see why thought. It wasn't anything I hadn't done 15 times before.

 

[pat]

Stripped it except for the processor(no fan).

and

(I plugged in the fan but didnt actually mount it because its a beast to move)

and the best here...

Possitive. This isn't my first time assembling a PC.

Yeah, and my name is Elvis and I'm still alive

 

[Kayden]

Hey now... back when I actually used to assemble them the CPUs didn't even need heatsinks.

If I knew everything I wouldn't be here asking questions would I?

Of course, I could be here to rub my knowlege in the face of others like a snobby jerk, but I'd like to think I'm above that.

 

[pat]

You seem to think you know everything, and that is a problem. I've built computer from the old one that didn't need cooling up to todays one. And I stiil don't pretend that I know everything. I still make some mistake, and most of the time, it is because I overlooked and assume that I know because it is not the first time.

How to avoid those stupid mistake? Simple. Usually, parts come with what they call manual or assembly sheet. Ok, I just put together a new system with an Asrock motherboard and an AMD64 CPU. In the CPU box, there is a large"poster" of CPU installation instruction. On that sheet, there is something that can be read that say:

Never use the processorwithout the heatsink/fan installed.

To me, it is pretty clear about it meaning. But, you first have to read it ...

And, in the manual, theree is a place taht explain that you have to install the CPU and the cooling according to the cpu manufacturer.


Yeah.. motherboard manual.. how boring.. NO. Interresting read. You can learn a lot of thing by fully reading it. not just looking at the page, but reading it all. ESPECIALLY CAUTION BOXES THAT GIVE IMPORTANT INFORMATION, SUCH AS NEVER RUN A CPU WITHOUT PROPER COOLING.

So, to me having assembled PC before does not means knowing its stuff.

So, while you still figure out your problem, look at the manual, because newer motherboard use different power connector, some are 4 pins, or 20 pins or 24 pins. If your motherboard has a 24 pins power socket and your PSU has a 20 pins connector, there is a way to have it plugged in.. $ pins square connector has to be plugged..


Anyway. I'm not a Chaintech fan, but I suggest to change the title of your post to put the blame on you, because you screwed it here.. Something like.. User error kill my CPU?
Hardware evolve.. it is normal. so, e

 

[Rugger]

Which Asrock? The Dual939? For you?

 

[pat]

yup

 

[RamaX]

I was looking at this board and had alot of concern about whether or not it supported dual core. I FINALLY (and ill agree with you there, theyre support SUCKED) heard back from Chaintech and they said that
you must upgrade with latest BIOS in order for it to work at all with dual-core AMD.

That also could be yer prob right there, and maybe why it started to boot once.

Hope this helps, or mebbe you already RMAd it hehe.
Id been seriously considering this board, now im lookin at one of these 2 biostars 1 , 2
And now im seriously considering this bundle with this board If you or anyone else knows anything about this board, id love to hear. It seems like a great buy, almost too good to be true
Hope some of this helps.

 

[Kayden]

I was talking with AMD and they said it may be the case. However, to flash it, you have to boot it. So I'd need another processor to get it running. I just RMA'd it and ordered an asus a8n

 

[Crashman]

OK, I'm back to respond to you, rather than the other thread!

First of all, any modern system can blow a processor faster than the power is cut off. Second, with a CPU heatsink attached but the fan not plugged in (or plugged into the wrong location) BIOS might freak out and power down after 5 seconds thinking the fan has malfunctioned.

Third, the VNF4 Ultra is a very nice board. If you had any crap in the system (other than a damaged processor), the first thing I would suspect is the RAM.

OK, now for the real shocker: You don't need washers on the standoffs. The standoffs are grounded, yes, but the screw holes only connect to the ground plane. Having the screw holes ground through the standoffs can't hurt a thing, in fact it can help reduce EMI

So you shouldn't use the paper washers. But you should make sure there aren't any unused standoffs touching the back of the board, because they can ground a live circuit and cause the system not to respond. BTW, by unused, I mean those that don't line up with screw holes.

Oh, and you do sound like an A+ certified tech. I talk to them at shops all the time. I think you have to trade 3 oz of grey matter for that cert, they're all morons.

 

[xxsk8er101xx]

lol ouch ... ya people talk to me and ask me why dont i have an A+ cert or the talk of how great it is. I tell them that i don't need it. If it came down to where the company asks me to get it i can get it. I think my 4 year degree surpasses the A+ cert heh.

OK, I'm back to respond to you, rather than the other thread!

First of all, any modern system can blow a processor faster than the power is cut off. Second, with a CPU heatsink attached but the fan not plugged in (or plugged into the wrong location) BIOS might freak out and power down after 5 seconds thinking the fan has malfunctioned.

Third, the VNF4 Ultra is a very nice board. If you had any crap in the system (other than a damaged processor), the first thing I would suspect is the RAM.

OK, now for the real shocker: You don't need washers on the standoffs. The standoffs are grounded, yes, but the screw holes only connect to the ground plane. Having the screw holes ground through the standoffs can't hurt a thing, in fact it can help reduce EMI

So you shouldn't use the paper washers. But you should make sure there aren't any unused standoffs touching the back of the board, because they can ground a live circuit and cause the system not to respond. BTW, by unused, I mean those that don't line up with screw holes.

Oh, and you do sound like an A+ certified tech. I talk to them at shops all the time. I think you have to trade 3 oz of grey matter for that cert, they're all morons.

 

[Kayden]

Ok, I'm an idiot then.

Question. If the CPU can fry without the heatsink before the top to the CPU gets hot... How does the heatsink actually do any good? How can it channel away heat that isn't even getting to it? I'm not a master of thermodynamics, but wouldn't the top of the CPU have to get hot for the heatsink to conduct the heat?

 

[xxsk8er101xx]

Well hopefully lessons learned here.

Never ever ever power up the computer with no heatsink and fan on the CPU. Ya back in the day you could do that but now a days they run so hot it just burns up the processor. Given Intel and AMD try to implement safe guards such as thermal throttling and thermal sensors and so on. Never count on technology to save your ass and doing some shortcut. You gotta go the extra mile to safe guard yourself.

Your issue that you had was just stuff not being plugged in all the way, it getting loose, or something not in right or at all. Bad hardware still boots for the most part with technical exceptions. So when it doesn't boot or turn on that should be a clear indication that something isn't in right.

I was talking with AMD and they said it may be the case. However, to flash it, you have to boot it. So I'd need another processor to get it running. I just RMA'd it and ordered an asus a8n

 

[xxsk8er101xx]

Did you turn it on and touch it? There is no indication that it is over heating. It doesn't smoke. it's a bit silent. Like when you turn on your space heater. I'm sure if you touched it it would have burnt your finger with 3rd degree burns.

Ok, I'm an idiot then.

Question. If the CPU can fry without the heatsink before the top to the CPU gets hot... How does the heatsink actually do any good? How can it channel away heat that isn't even getting to it? I'm not a master of thermodynamics, but wouldn't the top of the CPU have to get hot for the heatsink to conduct the heat?