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NT 4.0 SP6, Paged Pool, MmSt using 151 Mbytes, MSMQ 2070 E..

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Last response: in Windows 2000/NT
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December 29, 2004 12:03:38 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

Folks,

Our NT 4.0 server is experiencing 2070 errors that cause
MSMQ to go into "low memory" mode. This situation occurs
when the Paged Pool has reached 80 percent of its 192
Mbyte maximum size.

We have enabled tagging as a diagnostic tool. The MmSt tag
grows to 151 Mbytes in the Paged Pool, and the 2070 error
appears in the Event Browser. All the other tags remain
small and stable. Also, the Non-Paged Pool remains small
and stable.

After many years of operation, this is a new problem. We
are investigating it both as a kernel memory leak and as
an NTFS scalability limitation. Initially, the Poolmon
results point towards an NTFS problem.

Please, anyone know about the situation we face here?

Thanks,
Tim
Anonymous
December 29, 2004 4:26:55 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

It's a known MSMQ limitation issue, an unfixed bug in versions 1.0 &
2.0. See if anything here can be of any use for you:

Resource Management in MSMQ Applications
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/libr...

John

Tim wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Our NT 4.0 server is experiencing 2070 errors that cause
> MSMQ to go into "low memory" mode. This situation occurs
> when the Paged Pool has reached 80 percent of its 192
> Mbyte maximum size.
>
> We have enabled tagging as a diagnostic tool. The MmSt tag
> grows to 151 Mbytes in the Paged Pool, and the 2070 error
> appears in the Event Browser. All the other tags remain
> small and stable. Also, the Non-Paged Pool remains small
> and stable.
>
> After many years of operation, this is a new problem. We
> are investigating it both as a kernel memory leak and as
> an NTFS scalability limitation. Initially, the Poolmon
> results point towards an NTFS problem.
>
> Please, anyone know about the situation we face here?
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
December 29, 2004 5:30:06 PM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

John,

I read the article. Thanks.

The MSMQ apps are all well behaved. In the Paged Pool,
MQAC takes up 20-30 Kbytes and this is insignificant in
comparison with 192 Mbytes. MmSt tags take up 151 Mbytes,
and NTFS appears to be the Paged Pool hog.

The immediate problem is that MSMQ drops into "low memory"
mode and stops processing messages while the Paged Pool
hovers at 90 percent of its maximum. It appears that
incompatible thresholds have been set for Paged Pool low
water marks. MSMQ panics at 80 percent while NTFS caching
runs full speed until 90 percent.

Thanks,
Tim
>-----Original Message-----
>It's a known MSMQ limitation issue, an unfixed bug in
versions 1.0 &
>2.0. See if anything here can be of any use for you:
>
>Resource Management in MSMQ Applications
>http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?
url=/library/en-us/dnmqqc/html/resourcemgmtmsmq.asp
>
>John
>
>Tim wrote:
>
>> Folks,
>>
>> Our NT 4.0 server is experiencing 2070 errors that
cause
>> MSMQ to go into "low memory" mode. This situation
occurs
>> when the Paged Pool has reached 80 percent of its 192
>> Mbyte maximum size.
>>
>> We have enabled tagging as a diagnostic tool. The MmSt
tag
>> grows to 151 Mbytes in the Paged Pool, and the 2070
error
>> appears in the Event Browser. All the other tags remain
>> small and stable. Also, the Non-Paged Pool remains
small
>> and stable.
>>
>> After many years of operation, this is a new problem.
We
>> are investigating it both as a kernel memory leak and
as
>> an NTFS scalability limitation. Initially, the Poolmon
>> results point towards an NTFS problem.
>>
>> Please, anyone know about the situation we face here?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Tim
>
>.
>
Anonymous
December 30, 2004 12:50:14 AM

Archived from groups: microsoft.public.windowsnt.misc (More info?)

I assume you have the latest SP on the machine? I'm not sure but check
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session
Manager\Memory Management\ PoolUsageMaximum

By default it's supposed to start trimming at 80%. Maybe it's set too
high? From MS:

"...If the poolsnaps indicate that the MMST tag (Mm section object
prototype ptes) is the largest consumer and is over 80 megabytes (MB),
there is a large probability that there are a very large number of files
that are open on the server. By default, the Memory Manager tries to
trim allocated paged pool memory when the system reaches 80 percent of
the total paged pool. The possible maximum paged pool memory on a
computer is 343MB of paged pool, and 80 percent of this number is 274MB.
If the Memory Manager is unable to trim fast enough to keep up with the
demand, the event that is listed in the "Symptoms" section of this
article may occur. By tuning the Memory Manager to start the trimming
process earlier (for example, when it reaches 40 percent), it would be
possible to keep up with the paged pool demand during sudden peak usage,
and avoid running out of paged pool memory."

Note: On NT4 the maximum paged pool memory is 192MB of paged pool, the
above figures are for W2K.

John

Tim wrote:

> John,
>
> I read the article. Thanks.
>
> The MSMQ apps are all well behaved. In the Paged Pool,
> MQAC takes up 20-30 Kbytes and this is insignificant in
> comparison with 192 Mbytes. MmSt tags take up 151 Mbytes,
> and NTFS appears to be the Paged Pool hog.
>
> The immediate problem is that MSMQ drops into "low memory"
> mode and stops processing messages while the Paged Pool
> hovers at 90 percent of its maximum. It appears that
> incompatible thresholds have been set for Paged Pool low
> water marks. MSMQ panics at 80 percent while NTFS caching
> runs full speed until 90 percent.
>
> Thanks,
> Tim
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>It's a known MSMQ limitation issue, an unfixed bug in
>
> versions 1.0 &
>
>>2.0. See if anything here can be of any use for you:
>>
>>Resource Management in MSMQ Applications
>>http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?
>
> url=/library/en-us/dnmqqc/html/resourcemgmtmsmq.asp
>
>>John
>>
>>Tim wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Folks,
>>>
>>>Our NT 4.0 server is experiencing 2070 errors that
>
> cause
>
>>>MSMQ to go into "low memory" mode. This situation
>
> occurs
>
>>>when the Paged Pool has reached 80 percent of its 192
>>>Mbyte maximum size.
>>>
>>>We have enabled tagging as a diagnostic tool. The MmSt
>
> tag
>
>>>grows to 151 Mbytes in the Paged Pool, and the 2070
>
> error
>
>>>appears in the Event Browser. All the other tags remain
>>>small and stable. Also, the Non-Paged Pool remains
>
> small
>
>>>and stable.
>>>
>>>After many years of operation, this is a new problem.
>
> We
>
>>>are investigating it both as a kernel memory leak and
>
> as
>
>>>an NTFS scalability limitation. Initially, the Poolmon
>>>results point towards an NTFS problem.
>>>
>>>Please, anyone know about the situation we face here?
>>>
>>>Thanks,
>>>Tim
>>
>>.
>>
!