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March 11, 2005 11:41:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I wonder how long it will be before a flight sim actually looks photoreal
right down to the ground, everywhere on earth. Because FS2004, while it may
be good, is still super-fake when close to the ground and in other ways. I
predict maybe 15 years. FS2020 that comes on twelve 500GB disks is what I
look forward to...

More about : longer

Anonymous
March 12, 2005 5:40:19 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

It will most likely come on a sugar cubed sized storage media that is mostly plastic so we can grasp it with our
fingers:) 

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.com


"J" <speechee2@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:bNrYd.37922$JH1.1669795@news20.bellglobal.com...
>I wonder how long it will be before a flight sim actually looks photoreal
> right down to the ground, everywhere on earth. Because FS2004, while it may
> be good, is still super-fake when close to the ground and in other ways. I
> predict maybe 15 years. FS2020 that comes on twelve 500GB disks is what I
> look forward to...
>
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 5:40:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Carl Frisk <c.frisk@REMOVE.verizon.net> wrote:

> It will most likely come on a sugar cubed sized storage media that is
> mostly plastic so we can grasp it with our fingers:) 

Hmmm... That kind of medium might be dangerous around those of us who enjoy
coffee.

--
Peter













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March 12, 2005 10:51:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 20:41:26 -0500, "J" <speechee2@hotmail.com>
brought the following to our attention:
>
>I wonder how long it will be before a flight sim actually looks photoreal
>right down to the ground, everywhere on earth. Because FS2004, while it may
>be good, is still super-fake when close to the ground and in other ways. I
>predict maybe 15 years. FS2020 that comes on twelve 500GB disks is what I
>look forward to...
>


Seems like a good thread to post some efforts from yesterday.


There was a thread by Quillington that had cliffs.. etc. and then a
statement about FS9 scenery generation. FS9 scene engine has
apparently changed (and others know more of the details) and YES
we still run FS8 around here and it's one BIG sim lab all right. :) 

But it NEVER crashed to desk and runs fine.. except for the CPU issue.


So.. here are some Cap'ers after hours of sorting and matching texture
files. It's called MIXED TERRAIN experiment.


Here's a shot east of St. Louis before tuning right onto the 30L LOC;

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/KSTL_02.jpg (321k)



And some MIXED terrain bitmaps at dusk over Pennsylvania;

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/PA_mixed_00.jpg (134k)

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/PA_mixed_02.jpg (143k)



MIXED means from Lennarts, Faber, FSW, and enhanced night
(*lm*.bmp) from Europe and North Americka winter scenery files.
No complaining now.. Keep working on it!! :) 


-Gregory




ANd one more.. cruising over Pennsylvania heading for Pittsburgh;

http://home.comcast.net/~flightsim/Center_County.jpg (154k)
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 11:48:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

OK theoretically it won't be white or brown.

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.com


"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message news:17cpcmbxbmfaj.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Carl Frisk <c.frisk@REMOVE.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> It will most likely come on a sugar cubed sized storage media that is
>> mostly plastic so we can grasp it with our fingers:) 
>
> Hmmm... That kind of medium might be dangerous around those of us who enjoy
> coffee.
>
> --
> Peter
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
> http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
> ----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 12:30:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

If I were being asked how to improve the scenery technology for FS10 or
FS11, I would look at the current real weather idea, and have the scenery
within say, a hundred square miles around your aircraft ,downloaded from
satellite pictures streamed as you fly. This would cut out the need for
stored scenery and for updating as well. I am sure that the military already
have this, and what the military have, we usually get five years later.

You then really would be able to go outside your house and wave to yourself
as you simfly over!

Cheers,

Quilly
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 12:30:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Quilljar <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> I would look at the current real weather idea, and have the scenery
> within say, a hundred square miles around your aircraft ,downloaded from
> satellite pictures streamed as you fly.

That would be an excellent start. But unfortunately satellite imagery
doesn't tell the whole picture.

TO add to this, I would like to see the sim weather engine be able to
download satellite imagery, the current surface analysis chart (the chart
with the Ls and Hs and isometric lines on it), radar imagery, the aviation
area forecast (which gives an idea of the cloud bases, layers, and tops)
and of course, METARs for all weather reporting stations.

With all of this data, the sim weather engine would then be able to
construct a more realistic weather scenario from the ground to the flight
levels.

--
Peter













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March 12, 2005 12:30:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 08:29:07 -0500, pr <nope@nospam.com> brought the
following to our attention:

>Quilljar <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> I would look at the current real weather idea, and have the scenery
>> within say, a hundred square miles around your aircraft ,downloaded from
>> satellite pictures streamed as you fly.
>
>That would be an excellent start. But unfortunately satellite imagery
>doesn't tell the whole picture.
>
>TO add to this, I would like to see the sim weather engine be able to
>download satellite imagery, the current surface analysis chart (the chart
>with the Ls and Hs and isometric lines on it), radar imagery, the aviation
>area forecast (which gives an idea of the cloud bases, layers, and tops)
>and of course, METARs for all weather reporting stations.
>
>With all of this data, the sim weather engine would then be able to
>construct a more realistic weather scenario from the ground to the flight
>levels.

It all sounds very good.. utopian even. But how elaborate and
expensive it would be? Let me point out an issue that pokes a hole
in RW weather thus far.. the experimental FDs (AIR files) have rather
low (textbook) damping coeff's and the craft often rings and shimmies
with sudden control deflects. RW weather reaks havoc on such FD's
and often makes landing impossible. Therefore custom weather sets
must be used.

-G
March 12, 2005 1:23:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"pr" <nope@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:1gbom1tg8l1l8.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Quilljar <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> > I would look at the current real weather idea, and have the scenery
> > within say, a hundred square miles around your aircraft ,downloaded from
> > satellite pictures streamed as you fly.
>
> That would be an excellent start. But unfortunately satellite imagery
> doesn't tell the whole picture.
>
> TO add to this, I would like to see the sim weather engine be able to
> download satellite imagery, the current surface analysis chart (the chart
> with the Ls and Hs and isometric lines on it), radar imagery, the aviation
> area forecast (which gives an idea of the cloud bases, layers, and tops)
> and of course, METARs for all weather reporting stations.
>
> With all of this data, the sim weather engine would then be able to
> construct a more realistic weather scenario from the ground to the flight
> levels.
>
> --
> Peter

Good progress. In addition to weather we need better traffic. Realtime
traffic data. You could also hear actual ATC, or if not, simulated based on
all aircraft positions. Also you need to be able to talk to voice
recognition AI ATC. (I actually thought FS2004 had something like that when
I read about it having "interactive ATC" or whatever).

Furthermore, RL ATC will know about simulated traffic. So we might have a
real flight being put into extended hold because of excessive simulated
traffic in the area. ;) 

Wait I think I have it. The simulator just controls an actual aircraft
that's equipped with extensive cameras! You could not get more real than
this, and it also saves the airlines on pilot expenses. We need a very
reliable Windows version however, since a PC crash also involves another
type of crash. And so just who would board such an aircraft is another
story...
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 1:33:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

And in twenty years you will see a holographic projection of your sim flight fly over as you wave back to yourself :) 

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.com


"Quilljar" <wykehill-flightsim@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message news:39fr4tF630tabU1@individual.net...
> If I were being asked how to improve the scenery technology for FS10 or
> FS11, I would look at the current real weather idea, and have the scenery
> within say, a hundred square miles around your aircraft ,downloaded from
> satellite pictures streamed as you fly. This would cut out the need for
> stored scenery and for updating as well. I am sure that the military already
> have this, and what the military have, we usually get five years later.
>
> You then really would be able to go outside your house and wave to yourself
> as you simfly over!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Quilly
>
>
March 12, 2005 1:34:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 10:33:59 GMT, "Carl Frisk"
<c.frisk@REMOVE.verizon.net> brought the following to our attention:

>And in twenty years you will see a holographic projection
>of your sim flight fly over as you wave back to yourself :) 


That could be kinda' scary if you think about it. More could be done
with Land Class and expanded set of Terrain Textures.. but who is
going to work on the entire WORLD doing all that?

One guy has payware LC files on http://www.fsfreeware.com/ that
could make a significant difference. Personally I like to tinker with
terrain bitmaps. :) 

Isn't it possible to have 512x512 bitmaps for the ground? ANd
remember that FS covers everywhere on earth.. while flying nearly
every type of craft. Even with old-clunk hardware.. am having LOTS
of thrills cruising in the jets over both day and night scenes.

- - -

Last thing is MIPS. If they are stripped from the .bmps the scene will
shimmer like mad.. unless there's some good video hardware filtering.
Have both mipped and unmipped textures.

-G
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 1:44:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Bear in mind though that real Flight Sim machines, as used to train
those who will be jumping into the real thing, are lousy scenery wise.
I'm sure anyone who comes to, say, BA or American, from Flight Sim is
going to be pretty disappointed - although they do ultimately have the
real thing to look forward to of course.

BTW, I was accepted to train as a pilot by British Airways when I was
18 years old. Decided to go to University instead. Never regretted the
decision till I started on MS Flight Simulator a few years back. Bugs
the hell out of me now, especially when I look up and see a 747 coming
in (I live close to 3 major airports round London)!!!

Martin
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 2:23:44 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Do you fly anything IRL?

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.com


"Martin S." <Martin S@ms.com> wrote in message news:5mh531dv40uiu5ai84hnh2uome80sebuc0@4ax.com...
<*SNIP*>
>
> BTW, I was accepted to train as a pilot by British Airways when I was
> 18 years old. Decided to go to University instead. Never regretted the
> decision till I started on MS Flight Simulator a few years back. Bugs
> the hell out of me now, especially when I look up and see a 747 coming
> in (I live close to 3 major airports round London)!!!
>
> Martin
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 2:58:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Sadly not. When I win my first lottery it will be high on my list -
though it is too late for the 777s (and A380s!) I might have been on
by now.

M. :-)
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 3:08:28 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

18-7-47-77-3-80 :) 

--
....Carl Frisk
Anger is a brief madness.
- Horace, 20 B.C.
http://www.carlfrisk.com


"Martin S." <Martin S@ms.com> wrote in message news:f8m53199rd4k817tijqc55kid93nvj1u03@4ax.com...
> Sadly not. When I win my first lottery it will be high on my list -
> though it is too late for the 777s (and A380s!) I might have been on
> by now.
>
> M. :-)
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 4:18:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

I would prefer the 6TB single disk installation method myself :) 

"J" <speechee2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bNrYd.37922$JH1.1669795@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I wonder how long it will be before a flight sim actually looks photoreal
> right down to the ground, everywhere on earth. Because FS2004, while it
may
> be good, is still super-fake when close to the ground and in other ways.
I
> predict maybe 15 years. FS2020 that comes on twelve 500GB disks is what I
> look forward to...
>
>
Anonymous
March 12, 2005 10:08:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Gregory <flightsim.maps@bkwds.comcast.net> wrote:

> It all sounds very good.. utopian even. But how elaborate and
> expensive it would be?

Picture yourself back in 1983, flying Flight Sim v1.0 (or whatever was
around then). Your PC had state-of-the-art CGA graphics and your sound
consists of a standard issue, mono paper cone speaker.

http://simflight.com/~fshistory/fsh/fs2.htm

Someone then bursts into your office and, just back from the future, shows
you a screen shot of Flight Sim 2004.

I would suspect you would respond the same way...

> Let me point out an issue that pokes a hole
> in RW weather thus far.. the experimental FDs (AIR files) have rather
> low (textbook) damping coeff's and the craft often rings and shimmies
> with sudden control deflects. RW weather reaks havoc on such FD's
> and often makes landing impossible. Therefore custom weather sets
> must be used.

Any sim that was able to create the real weather I described in my previous
post would also exhibit much improved flight dynamics. :) 


--
Peter













----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
March 13, 2005 12:47:10 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Don't you just hate the proverbial fork in the road?

"Martin S." <Martin S@ms.com> wrote in message
news:5mh531dv40uiu5ai84hnh2uome80sebuc0@4ax.com...
> Bear in mind though that real Flight Sim machines, as used to train
> those who will be jumping into the real thing, are lousy scenery wise.
> I'm sure anyone who comes to, say, BA or American, from Flight Sim is
> going to be pretty disappointed - although they do ultimately have the
> real thing to look forward to of course.
>
> BTW, I was accepted to train as a pilot by British Airways when I was
> 18 years old. Decided to go to University instead. Never regretted the
> decision till I started on MS Flight Simulator a few years back. Bugs
> the hell out of me now, especially when I look up and see a 747 coming
> in (I live close to 3 major airports round London)!!!
>
> Martin
>
March 13, 2005 2:33:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"J" <speechee2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bNrYd.37922$JH1.1669795@news20.bellglobal.com...
> I wonder how long it will be before a flight sim actually looks photoreal
> right down to the ground, everywhere on earth. Because FS2004, while it
may
> be good, is still super-fake when close to the ground and in other ways.
I
> predict maybe 15 years. FS2020 that comes on twelve 500GB disks is what I
> look forward to...

I'm willing to wager that it'll be less than 15 years, but the scenery will
be downloaded real-time off the internet and not stored locally. The engine
being something like NASA's "World Wind" program. (Which is a really cool
program. Check it out if you haven't already.)

Also willing to wager that FS2020 won't be able to run with all sliders
maxed until 2025. LOL

Cheers,
-Eric
March 13, 2005 2:43:16 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"J" <speechee2@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>
> Good progress. In addition to weather we need better traffic. Realtime
> traffic data. You could also hear actual ATC, or if not, simulated based
on
> all aircraft positions. Also you need to be able to talk to voice
> recognition AI ATC. (I actually thought FS2004 had something like that
when
> I read about it having "interactive ATC" or whatever).
>
> Furthermore, RL ATC will know about simulated traffic. So we might have a
> real flight being put into extended hold because of excessive simulated
> traffic in the area. ;) 

That all sounds great. All sorts of possibilities to blend the "real" with
the "simulated". Providing it wouldn't be a real world "security issue", it
would be neat to see AI aircraft in the air based upon actual real-world
aircraft. Not just schedules (which is easily done now), but AI aircraft in
the sim are always at a location that their real-world counterpart is. You
have to ability to "jump into" and take over any aircraft you want.

I wouldn't mind seeing a "franchise mode" (ala, "Madden") in MSFS. Operate
your own airline. You are in charge of aircraft purchases, maintenance,
hiring employees, setting prices, advertising, the whole works. Objective,
of course, is your bottom line and keeping your stockholders happy.
Anything (especially not keeping flights punctual) effect sales, ect. That
would be fun. (I still want to fly, of course.)

Cheers,
-Eric
March 13, 2005 2:43:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Martin S. wrote:
> Bear in mind though that real Flight Sim machines, as used to train
> those who will be jumping into the real thing, are lousy scenery wise.
> I'm sure anyone who comes to, say, BA or American, from Flight Sim is
> going to be pretty disappointed - although they do ultimately have the


I remember the first Cobra Simulator we flew in Germany. There was a
map board just like you would see with a large train sim board. The
cockpit was fixed, not a motion sim and the screen was displayed to the
pilot with a tiny camera, like those they stick up your .. .. You know.

Anyway they would take sugar and put it in the middle of a field just to
lure flys. A fly beside a house looked just like a big ol' monster. We
did manage to get some actual tactical flying done.


--

boB

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
March 13, 2005 10:57:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB"
> There was a
> map board just like you would see with a large train sim board.

Yep.. I saw one of those "primitive" simulators in the 1970s too.. The
Dallas American Airlines training center had a giant "model train" board
hanging sideways on a huge wall with incredible detail.. airports,
churches, downtown buildings... I wanted it.... A large robotic video
camera could move in 3-D through the scenery and the output was projected
into the full motion simulator cockpits.

It was a long standing joke to park the camera in some weird place in the
scenery when your turn was over to give the next guy a laugh.

We've come a long way.


Dallas
!