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Would you upgrade given this info?

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a b à CPUs
December 15, 2005 5:06:31 PM

I currently have a 3200+ Barton w/12x multi, ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe M/BD, 2X512 Corsair XMS XLL 2225 in dual mode, ATI X850XT and 2 80G Hitachi HDDs in Raid 0.

My sister would like for me to put together a PC for her that she could do a little more with. She currently has a 25MH intel PC. Yep, you read right.

She won't be getting on the internet.

I could build her a A socket PC with parts I have(I've got several PCs I could update all along with this)giving her my grand-daughters CPU(2200+) and my wifes 2800+ to my grand-daughter. Then give my wife my 3200+. Any who a lot of switching around involved but maybe it is worth it. Thus my question.

My PC does everything I want it to do okay, however this could be the opertunity to upgrade to 939 w/AGP. I'd like to still use my ATI 850 and ram. Other than being ready for XP 64 would I see any significant gains in gaming, video editing and making copies of my DVDs?

More about : upgrade info

December 15, 2005 5:25:37 PM

Quote:
My PC does everything I want it to do okay, however this could be the opertunity to upgrade to 939 w/AGP. I'd like to still use my ATI 850 and ram. Other than being ready for XP 64 would I see any significant gains in gaming, video editing and making copies of my DVDs?


Yes you'd see a pretty good performance jump in most everything you do if you went to a Athlon 64 (Socket 939) or Pentium 4 (LGA775). Here's a great benchmark comparison with almost every single processor made going back to the 1.4Ghz Thunderbird.

http://www.tomshardware.com/2005/11/21/the_mother_of_al...

I would like to make a suggestion: if you want to go to Socket 939, stay away from the hybrid PCI-e/AGP boards. Not only do they score low in benchmarking, many of people have come to these boards w/ problems. Bite the bullet and get a new PCI-e video card. You can sell that 850XT for a damn good price on eBay... I got $207 for my x800 Pro AGP a couple weeks ago. Your RAM will still work fine in Socket 939 boards. Socket 939 still uses 184pin DIMMs. LGA775 uses DDR2 though. Overall, AMD has the performance crown w/ 939.

-mpjesse
December 15, 2005 7:42:01 PM

Quote:
I currently have a 3200+ Barton w/12x multi, ASUS A7N8X-E Deluxe M/BD, 2X512 Corsair XMS XLL 2225 in dual mode, ATI X850XT and 2 80G Hitachi HDDs in Raid 0.

My sister would like for me to put together a PC for her that she could do a little more with. She currently has a 25MH intel PC. Yep, you read right.

She won't be getting on the internet.

I could build her a A socket PC with parts I have(I've got several PCs I could update all along with this)giving her my grand-daughters CPU(2200+) and my wifes 2800+ to my grand-daughter. Then give my wife my 3200+. Any who a lot of switching around involved but maybe it is worth it. Thus my question.

My PC does everything I want it to do okay, however this could be the opertunity to upgrade to 939 w/AGP. I'd like to still use my ATI 850 and ram. Other than being ready for XP 64 would I see any significant gains in gaming, video editing and making copies of my DVDs?


But, OTOH, if you build your sister a nice and up to date rig, you won't hear from her in 2 years that she needs more...

Build her a nice one, then next year do your grand daughter one, then your wife next and finnaly, yours..

But I can understand you, wanting to play with the newer toys in town ...
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a b à CPUs
December 15, 2005 10:27:24 PM

Quote:
Yes you'd see a pretty good performance jump in most everything you do if you went to a Athlon 64 (Socket 939)



Thanks for that. I may wait til Jan. to do this as the price breaks are apt to be pretty good then.


Quote:
Bite the bullet and get a new PCI-e video card.



Which do you think would give me comparable performance? I made a mistake about my ATI, it only has 12 pipelines.




Quote:
But, OTOH, if you build your sister a nice and up to date rig, you won't hear from her in 2 years that she needs more...

Build her a nice one, then next year do your grand daughter one, then your wife next and finnaly, yours..

But I can understand you, wanting to play with the newer toys in town ...



ROFLMAO :p  :p  :p 
December 16, 2005 2:05:48 PM

Well, in that case, he could get a Socket 939 mobo with just an AGP slot... like the Asus K8V.
December 18, 2005 7:29:58 AM

I would say atleast get PCIE, AGP is going to start fading fast.
December 18, 2005 10:19:51 AM

if u wanna go for agp slots then u gonna have some trouble...nvidia chipsets available are all pci express....so this leaves u with via chipsets..
December 19, 2005 5:52:38 AM

Wouldn't recommend AGP - they're right, it's fading fast... Cast your mind back to the days of VESA Local Bus & you'll have a fairly comparable scenario. I'm kicking myself for sticking with AGP on my recent upgrade - just means so much more of an expense (New MoBo, CPU & GPU) on my next upgrade.

Go PCI-e...
December 19, 2005 1:32:54 PM

it has already faded. A friend of mine had a rough time finding a 6800 gt that was AGP. I quickly bought one before they faded out.

Quote:
I would say atleast get PCIE, AGP is going to start fading fast.
December 19, 2005 1:35:57 PM

If i went PCI-E i would have had "an expense (New MoBo, CPU & GPU)" plus RAM. I only have PC2700. My computer is fast enough for me so a new video card that was AGP was the cheapest way to upgrade to give me a couple more years before that complete overhaul.

Quote:
Wouldn't recommend AGP - they're right, it's fading fast... Cast your mind back to the days of VESA Local Bus & you'll have a fairly comparable scenario. I'm kicking myself for sticking with AGP on my recent upgrade - just means so much more of an expense (New MoBo, CPU & GPU) on my next upgrade.

Go PCI-e...
December 19, 2005 2:45:05 PM

unfortunately though, for those trying to squeeze the latest into their machines. both ATI and Nvidia have basically declared AGP dead.

none of the new cards in development have AGP variants. the 7xxx series from NV and the X1xxx series from ATI are the first PCI-E only seires of cards and will continue this way.

Nvidia has made it clear they were doing this switch back with the release of the 6600 GPU. (NV43) which was designed with a PCI-E interface. the 6600 and 6600GT were both available in PCI-E. Only after a short while and the popularity of the card in PCI-E did NV decide to make an AGP version. the chip itself was still PCI-E native, but included a interface chip onboard to make it AGP.

you can see by the following two photos the difference in card. you can see where on the AGP model they added a the heatsync for the PCI-E to AGP processor.

PCI-E Reference Design


AGP-E Reference Design


Here's the AGP version with the fan's off showing the GPU and the Bridge processor

December 19, 2005 5:44:06 PM

i can't afford a new cpu ($500), new motherboard ($150), New RAM ($150), new IDE devices in exchange for the SATA devices ($200), also any new PCI-E devices such as a sound card ($80), a new PSU ($100) so i'd have the proper power i'd need for the PCI-E and SATA - AND finally a video card ($300)

Now spend 1500 bucks, which i do not have, or spend 300 and give my PC more life for another 2-3 years?

heh i have too much experience in this field to know better than spend 1500 bucks when i can spend 300 and get the performance boost I need.

Quote:
unfortunately though, for those trying to squeeze the latest into their machines. both ATI and Nvidia have basically declared AGP dead.

none of the new cards in development have AGP variants. the 7xxx series from NV and the X1xxx series from ATI are the first PCI-E only seires of cards and will continue this way.

Nvidia has made it clear they were doing this switch back with the release of the 6600 GPU. (NV43) which was designed with a PCI-E interface. the 6600 and 6600GT were both available in PCI-E. Only after a short while and the popularity of the card in PCI-E did NV decide to make an AGP version. the chip itself was still PCI-E native, but included a interface chip onboard to make it AGP.

you can see by the following two photos the difference in card. you can see where on the AGP model they added a the heatsync for the PCI-E to AGP processor.

PCI-E Reference Design


AGP-E Reference Design


Here's the AGP version with the fan's off showing the GPU and the Bridge processor

a b à CPUs
December 19, 2005 7:04:49 PM

Quote:
Now spend 1500 bucks, which i do not have, or spend 300 and give my PC more life for another 2-3 years?



Thats sorta what I was thinking. Get a 3700 San Diego core and Abit UL8 ULI M1689 for ~ $300.00. Everything else I have will plug right in just fine. Who knows, in 2 or 3 years M2 may be fully developed and that would be "THE" way to go.
December 19, 2005 10:09:58 PM

If you are not worried about a performance rig, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2/ With AGP and PCIe got good reviews here on Tom's, and its only about $70. You won't be able to overclock with it, but it will let you keep your AGP and still start adopting the latest technologies. I haven't tested it myself, but there are newer BIOSes on the website that may fix some of the issues mentioned in the review.
December 19, 2005 10:52:14 PM

Actually ATI does plan to release the X1300 and X1600 in AGP formats. They are scheduled to arrive in January.

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=28159

Only the X1800 won't be available in AGP form so the X850 series will remain the fastest in AGP.

nVidia will likely port their lower model 7xxx to AGP to compete with the X1300 and the X1600 once they are released next year.
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2005 1:00:17 AM

Quote:
If you are not worried about a performance rig, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2/ With AGP and PCIe got good reviews here on Tom's, and its only about $70.



Actually I do want to OC some, but not enogh to really matter with the M/BD I have in mind now. Abit has a good rep for making OC' M/BDs thus my pick.

Although the future is hard to predict I'd probably go with DFI if they are still as good as they are now when I upgrade to the newer tech. Hopefully that will be several years with what I am planning, I think,hope?
December 20, 2005 9:55:31 PM

Quote:
If you are not worried about a performance rig, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2/ With AGP and PCIe got good reviews here on Tom's, and its only about $70. You won't be able to overclock with it, but it will let you keep your AGP and still start adopting the latest technologies. I haven't tested it myself, but there are newer BIOSes on the website that may fix some of the issues mentioned in the review.



So, how do you call that when a 1.8GHz a3000+ run at 2.35 GHz on this board???

Damn, I though I was overclocking ...
December 20, 2005 11:32:37 PM

Quote:
If you are not worried about a performance rig, the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2/ With AGP and PCIe got good reviews here on Tom's, and its only about $70. You won't be able to overclock with it, but it will let you keep your AGP and still start adopting the latest technologies. I haven't tested it myself, but there are newer BIOSes on the website that may fix some of the issues mentioned in the review.



So, how do you call that when a 1.8GHz a3000+ run at 2.35 GHz on this board???

Damn, I though I was overclocking ...

I did say that I have not tested the board myself. I guess I should have stated that from the reviews I have read, It appears you cannot overclock much. From what I see, it depends on which BIOS you have, and how much you know baout overclocking.
a b à CPUs
December 20, 2005 11:35:15 PM

Quote:
So, how do you call that when a 1.8GHz a3000+ run at 2.35 GHz on this board???

Damn, I though I was overclocking ...



Sounds pretty good to me!!

So.......I assume you have that Asrock, how do you like it?
December 20, 2005 11:54:56 PM

Quote:
So, how do you call that when a 1.8GHz a3000+ run at 2.35 GHz on this board???

Damn, I though I was overclocking ...



Sounds pretty good to me!!

So.......I assume you have that Asrock, how do you like it?

I like it so far. run stable and as fast as my nf4 I had before. I did not try to OC my new venice yet.. well, I think I have it a 1.9.. a 100 MHz OC..
a b à CPUs
December 21, 2005 8:15:17 PM

Quote:
Wouldn't recommend AGP - they're right, it's fading fast... Cast your mind back to the days of VESA Local Bus & you'll have a fairly comparable scenario. I'm kicking myself for sticking with AGP on my recent upgrade - just means so much more of an expense (New MoBo, CPU & GPU) on my next upgrade.

Go PCI-e...


tell me about it i cannot find an AGP card anywhere with 512MB of ram. and no wonder it is fading away all the new AGP cards have to have PSU connections now
December 23, 2005 8:14:59 AM

It really depends on howmuch money you have and if you are willing to upgrade again in a short period of time. I agree with MP Jesse. Hybrid AGP/PCI-e boards are not reliable. The PCI-e slot may not even be full speed. I dont think it is wise to buy a PCI-e card right now. ATIs midrange offerings are slower than what you have now and the X1800 is downright too expensive. Until the 7600 series from NVIDIA comes out, there will be no price pressure. ATI will have to release another series of cards by the summer cuz the ones thay have now kinda stink. Plus, since you are involved with video encoding, it may be worth it to wait to see if AVIVO from ATI pans out or if NVIDIA comesout with something similar. I would definitely reccomend an NVIDIA card over an ATI card any day unless AVIVO is the real deal. I would keep what you have for now. Unless you are willing to spend alot on a S754 athlon, there is nothing worth spending the money on. A basic S754 A64 or a fast sempron will barely do better than what you have now. But your CPU temps will drop trmendously though. I wouldnt buy another GPU though. Yours still has alot of life left.
December 23, 2005 12:05:38 PM

Quote:
I agree with MP Jesse. Hybrid AGP/PCI-e boards are not reliable. The PCI-e slot may not even be full speed.


First generation of board that were using a bridged AGP board from either PCI or PCIe were not reliable. The Asrock has a full PCI-e compliant slot and a fully compliant AGP slot. Because it use a PCIe chipset and an AGP chipset, no bridge like trick.

I tried my PVIe x600xt in and played game as good as my nforce4 I had before. I'm now using an older ATI AIW9600 AGP and run as fast as the card can.. It's the slowest version of the 9600..only passive cooling, which I like very much because I use it mostly to do video edit and watch movies.. I'm not a big gamer, but I sometime play some racing game ..
a b à CPUs
December 23, 2005 12:54:08 PM

DuxSyagrius wrote:
I agree with MP Jesse. Hybrid AGP/PCI-e boards are not reliable. The PCI-e slot may not even be full speed.


First generation of board that were using a bridged AGP board from either PCI or PCIe were not reliable. The Asrock has a full PCI-e compliant slot and a fully compliant AGP slot. Because it use a PCIe chipset and an AGP chipset, no bridge like trick.

I tried my PVIe x600xt in and played game as good as my nforce4 I had before. I'm now using an older ATI AIW9600 AGP and run as fast as the card can.. It's the slowest version of the 9600..only passive cooling, which I like very much because I use it mostly to do video edit and watch movies.. I'm not a big gamer, but I sometime play some racing game ..


Interesting info from both of you. I have a friend who has an identical system as mine, and just bought this. How well do you think this would improve my PC. Current '03 score is 102XX and '05 is 49XX.
December 23, 2005 1:09:46 PM

Whatever man! I had water coolong before and my XP 2700 cooked at around 150-160 range regularly. It was a koolance system in a Antec case. High maitenance. You need distilled water, you have to clean shit all the time. Whatever. When I emptied my radiator, there was barely any water in it. it was kinda quiet though. I say nothing beats two 120mm fans and a good H/S fan for the CPU. Hybrid BTX/ATX cases look promising. You may want to take Pat's suggestion into consideration. He has a board that is working for him and I think seeing is beleiving. I was commenting on intel based boards with both PCI-e and AGP though so I am probobly wrong. I will say this though, in the future, most games will be GPU dependant. As long a your card can push frames, then keep it. I just read an interresting article comparing value CPUs to $700 FX chips and what not. There was not enough of a difference to warrant spending so much money on a CPU. I say keep what you have brother. When your X850 cant push frames with quality, then it is time to upgrade.